PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study

KevScarb · 09-05-2009, 08:25 AM

Dave,

What is your view on Clickbank ? I hear that even using a landing page is now a problem with Adwords traffic, if the landing page goes to clickbank, your quality score is affected.

Marc Perriere · 09-05-2009, 07:57 PM

Thanks so much Dave for taking the time to giving us fundamental marketing principles in order to explain one of the best approach to PPC 2 CPA. I really appreciate your generosity in sharing and also in the quality of your answers + your availability.

Your replies are also definitely worth gold and also really help me understand that making money is one thing (CPA offers are often referred to as awsome "fast cash" oppotunity), but not doing it at any price, that is without any understanding of the market. I really like that! What I think is implied in your original post is that, we sometimes may be blinded by the lot of cash that may be made, however taking PPC to CPA as a real business does really seem much wiser to me than just going staright to Adwords and promoting the first CPA offer available out there...

Your post really was helpful to me as well! Thank you again for giving personal and detailed examples on how to approach this specific type of marketing!

Thumoney · 09-05-2009, 08:25 PM

It was mentioned more than once that building an email list in your market is an improvement over just direct PPC -> CPA.

I like to bring up one thing here. Many of the most popular CPA offers get a lot of user complaints mostly due to nontransparent re-billing, other offers produce email spam or financial offers even worse.

I think if you get into a relationship with users via a list, you have to make sure that these users will be happy in the end. Otherwise you are back to the one-time sale, because a really unhappy user will opt-out faster than you can refresh your stats.

So this leaves you to promote only very legit, non-rebilling CPA offers to your list. This rules out many of the popular health, financial etc. offers on the CPA networks.

Or you get so transparent with the rebilling option, that many users on your list will avoid this offer.

Either way, it looks like building a long-term, happy-subscriber list within the current CPA landscape is very difficult.

What are your opinions on that?

dropship · 09-06-2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumoney

It was mentioned more than once that building an email list in your market is an improvement over just direct PPC -> CPA.

I like to bring up one thing here. Many of the most popular CPA offers get a lot of user complains mostly due to nontransparent re-billing, other offers produce email spam or financial offers even worse.

I think if you get into a relationship with users via a list, you have to make sure that these users will be happy in the end. Otherwise you are back to the one-time sale, because a really unhappy user will opt-out faster than you can refresh your stats.

So this leaves you to promote only very legit, non-rebilling CPA offers to your list. This rules out many of the popular health, financial etc. offers on the CPA networks.

Or you get so transparent with the rebilling option, that many users on your list will avoid this offer.

Either way, it looks like building a long-term, happy-subscriber list within the current CPA landscape is very difficult.

What are your opinions on that?

You're absolutely right about that. Your list will dwindle away to nothing if you keep promoting rebill products.

With that being said there are pelnty of other offers you can promote. For one of my niches, I have a total of 10 autoresponders of CPA offers that aren't rebills which convert and I still have a large list at the end of each day.

Dave Ward · 09-06-2009, 10:37 AM

Hi Thumoney, Great points you make, here is my view..

Quote:

I like to bring up one thing here. Many of the most popular CPA offers get a lot of user complains mostly due to nontransparent re-billing, other offers produce email spam or financial offers even worse.

Agreed

Quote:

I think if you get into a relationship with users via a list, you have to make sure that these users will be happy in the end. Otherwise you are back to the one-time sale, because a really unhappy user will opt-out faster than you can refresh your stats.

Again I agree, so my advice to anyone is think about this long term, and that should also help you decide the type of products you will promote

Quote:

So this leaves you to promote only very legit, non-rebilling CPA offers to your list. This rules out many of the popular health, financial etc. offers on the CPA networks.

Putting the rebill issue aside, because that could be a thread all on its own !. Even if as you say this is all it left you with, I can assure you it is more than enough to make money with. One of my inner circle clients , is doing over $150,000 per month in commissions, and none of it is from rebill products. Popular does not always mean the best . As I put in my original post " stop following the pack ".

Quote:

Either way, it looks like building a long-term, happy-subscriber list within the current CPA landscape is very difficult.

Absolutely Not

Consistent performing offers in cpa have been around for years. The constant theme is they have always been offers that offer a solution to a common problem, offers that are free, offers that deal with dating , education, finding reliable tradesmen, refinancing, insurance, auto quotes , 2 for one restaurant meals etc, there is so much more out there than diet pills, and skin creams.

As dropship mentions in his post above, you can do just fine without the rebills.

Dave

@ Marc Perrière - Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it , and I am glad it is of help to you.

@ Kevin, I will reply to your Clickbank question later, but I have just broke my no Internet on a Sunday rule while my wife went shopping

, so this is it for now .

Thumoney · 09-06-2009, 12:54 PM

Alright, good answers. To sum up the point that I really wanted to make, and I find you also supported it: long-term email marketing with rebill offers (those non-transparent ones) is not the way to go. It works with CPA with more legit offers!?

Dave Ward · 09-07-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumoney

Alright, good answers. To sum up the point that I really wanted to make, and I find you also supported it: long-term email marketing with rebill offers (those non-transparent ones) is not the way to go. It works with CPA with more legit offers!?

Yes , I would agree you can't build a long term business using non transparent rebill offers. Fortunately there are plenty of alternatives.

didiert · 09-07-2009, 07:10 PM

Awesome Dave.

One of the best posts in long time.

Really usefull information.

Thanks for sharing

honestbizpro · 09-07-2009, 07:33 PM

Great Post Dave!

I think SEO and PPC is the perfect world for me. Both yield so much more rewards when you build on a market/niche and become an authority on it.

When you are getting natural search clicks plus your keyword researched PPC clicks it is a great position to be in.

Either way..if you choose markets that are not so disposable like the here today gone tommorow typical rebill madness you will enjoy better conversions and for longer periods.

breakdance · 09-08-2009, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honestbizpro

Either way..if you choose markets that are not so disposable like the here today gone tommorow typical rebill madness you will enjoy better conversions and for longer periods.

Yes Indeed Mr. HBZ, picking *long-term* offers is KEY, especially if you want to market CPA-offers in the long-run...!

Dave Ward · 09-08-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didiert

Awesome Dave.

One of the best posts in long time.

Really usefull information.

Thanks for sharing

Thanks Didiert , glad it helped.

@ Honest Biz Pro, So true - don't build on sand.

Sipboy3000 · 09-08-2009, 03:09 PM

Dave,

WOW! That was a killer post.

Picking the right markets is the single most important factor that took me from losing money to making money with PPC.

I missed out on the list building component in the beginning because the money was so good and everything was pretty much autopilot.

Then I realized how much money I was leaving on the table by not capturing the market so I have since changed my business model.

Thanks

Dave Ward · 09-11-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevScarb

Dave,

What is your view on Clickbank ? I hear that even using a landing page is now a problem with Adwords traffic, if the landing page goes to clickbank, your quality score is affected.

Kev,

this may be true, but as I put in the O.P. I would always look to capture the customer first, so the clickbank link on the landing page would not be an issue in this case.

Dave

Show My Website · 09-11-2009, 06:40 PM

Dave, Excellent information. Let me just add, if you are testing keywords for a market make sure your campaign is only going to show up in "Search Results" and not on the content network. This may be obvious or not, but to a new marketer this will save them $100's. Search results are "Keyword" based, content network is not

Cheers

KevScarb · 09-12-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Ward

Kev,

this may be true, but as I put in the O.P. I would always look to capture the customer first, so the clickbank link on the landing page would not be an issue in this case.

Dave

Thanks Dave.. I get it, When buying traffic, try and capture their details first. Say it enough and I get there in the end

Dave Ward · 09-14-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevScarb

Thanks Dave.. I get it, When buying traffic, try and capture their details first. Say it enough and I get there in the end

Lol You won't go far wrong using that tactic Kev.

tonybhachu · 09-17-2009, 03:09 PM

Hi Dave,
Great post my friend!
This is some of the best info I've read on PPC in a long time.
Thanks,
Tony

st0rm · 09-24-2009, 07:47 AM

I think i have read the info in this post about four times now, some great stuff here but rereading it make it sink in so much... thanks again Dave

Can i ask what your feelings are towards the cost of PPC and the budget that I would have to invest daily to make a successful ROI? would I be better spreading the bugget say $10 a day accross a few CPA offers of just focus on one. I am only saying $10 as a sample i could go more but dont want to over spend..

Any help would be great..!

TimAbbott · 09-24-2009, 12:58 PM

perfect post!!

Thanks ,it's very helpful for me

pauljeaston · 09-25-2009, 07:13 AM

Great information. Thank you for the enlightenment. This is certainly true for those people running and chasing their tails.

folkcare · 09-25-2009, 10:11 AM

Well done Dave,

It really IS the list - I wish I could just implement that and stop chasing the easy methods. Maybe tomorrow I will - well done. Maybe we're all afraid of writing auto-responder follow ups.

JonathanBoettcher · 09-26-2009, 01:01 PM

Some of the best advice I've seen on this forum for a while now. Thanks very much Dave! I think that gets at the heart of my problem...

Dave Ward · 09-30-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st0rm

I think i have read the info in this post about four times now, some great stuff here but rereading it make it sink in so much... thanks again Dave

Can i ask what your feelings are towards the cost of PPC and the budget that I would have to invest daily to make a successful ROI? would I be better spreading the bugget say $10 a day accross a few CPA offers of just focus on one. I am only saying $10 as a sample i could go more but dont want to over spend..

Any help would be great..!

Hi,

first sorry for late reply, has been a busy week.

My advice, and the same as I tell my coaching students is first focus on one keyword theme and one product.

So I would not advise spending the $10 on a few CPA offers. I would suggest you focus on one. So one landing page to try and capture the customer to send to that offer. Focus on the keywords that are most relevant to that offer, and work to convert that traffic. Of course if you have the customer details, you can then send to other offers if they are related.

Dave

RicksterUK · 10-25-2009, 03:19 PM

Dave,

I would also like to say congratulations on an outstanding post. Like many others who have commented on this thread, I have to agree it is one of the best posts I have read in a long, long time. It makes even more sense with the recent google changes and their clear dislike of affiliates to follow the methods you have explained here.

senny168 · 11-03-2009, 06:41 AM

Can someone please explain to me what CPA stands for and what it is? Same for CPV. Thanks! Senny.

Fox30 · 11-03-2009, 11:19 AM

Dave,

That is probably one of the best write ups I've ever seen not just for CPA & PPC, but for running a business in general. One of my first major mistakes starting out in CPA, as many newbies do, is choosing the CPA offer that was going to pay me the most before analyzing the market(competition and demand). Needless to say, I didn't make any money with this approach.

It is one of the main things I changed before making my first dollar in IM.

-Fox

KevScarb · 11-07-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by senny168

Can someone please explain to me what CPA stands for and what it is? Same for CPV. Thanks! Senny.

Senny, CPA stands for Cost Per Action , in our case it refers to getting paid for the customer going through a certain process, either buying a product, or filling out a form with information.

CPV is Cost Per View.

09-05-2009, 08:25 AM	#51
KevScarb Active Warrior Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 31 Thanks: 18 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Dave, What is your view on Clickbank ? I hear that even using a landing page is now a problem with Adwords traffic, if the landing page goes to clickbank, your quality score is affected.

09-05-2009, 07:57 PM	#52
Marc Perriere Warrior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: France Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Contact Info	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Thanks so much Dave for taking the time to giving us fundamental marketing principles in order to explain one of the best approach to PPC 2 CPA. I really appreciate your generosity in sharing and also in the quality of your answers + your availability. Your replies are also definitely worth gold and also really help me understand that making money is one thing (CPA offers are often referred to as awsome "fast cash" oppotunity), but not doing it at any price, that is without any understanding of the market. I really like that! What I think is implied in your original post is that, we sometimes may be blinded by the lot of cash that may be made, however taking PPC to CPA as a real business does really seem much wiser to me than just going staright to Adwords and promoting the first CPA offer available out there... Your post really was helpful to me as well! Thank you again for giving personal and detailed examples on how to approach this specific type of marketing!
	*Marc Perrière*, alias caromarc

09-05-2009, 08:25 PM	#53
Thumoney Active Warrior Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 66 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study It was mentioned more than once that building an email list in your market is an improvement over just direct PPC -> CPA. I like to bring up one thing here. Many of the most popular CPA offers get a lot of user complaints mostly due to nontransparent re-billing, other offers produce email spam or financial offers even worse. I think if you get into a relationship with users via a list, you have to make sure that these users will be happy in the end. Otherwise you are back to the one-time sale, because a really unhappy user will opt-out faster than you can refresh your stats. So this leaves you to promote only very legit, non-rebilling CPA offers to your list. This rules out many of the popular health, financial etc. offers on the CPA networks. Or you get so transparent with the rebilling option, that many users on your list will avoid this offer. Either way, it looks like building a long-term, happy-subscriber list within the current CPA landscape is very difficult. What are your opinions on that?
	Thumoney.com - Master Affiliate Marketing with PPC - incl. the Thumoney Insider Mailing List

09-06-2009, 12:54 PM	#56
Thumoney Active Warrior Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 66 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Alright, good answers. To sum up the point that I really wanted to make, and I find you also supported it: long-term email marketing with rebill offers (those non-transparent ones) is not the way to go. It works with CPA with more legit offers!?
	Thumoney.com - Master Affiliate Marketing with PPC - incl. the Thumoney Insider Mailing List

09-07-2009, 07:10 PM	#58
didiert Warrior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: World Posts: 21 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Awesome Dave. One of the best posts in long time. Really usefull information. Thanks for sharing
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09-07-2009, 07:33 PM	#59
honestbizpro Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: , , . Posts: 2,212 Thanks: 95 Thanked 235 Times in 152 Posts	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Great Post Dave! I think SEO and PPC is the perfect world for me. Both yield so much more rewards when you build on a market/niche and become an authority on it. When you are getting natural search clicks plus your keyword researched PPC clicks it is a great position to be in. Either way..if you choose markets that are not so disposable like the here today gone tommorow typical rebill madness you will enjoy better conversions and for longer periods.
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09-08-2009, 03:09 PM	#62
Sipboy3000 "Serious Entreprenuer" War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Georgia (via Mississippi) Posts: 108 Thanks: 20 Thanked 32 Times in 9 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Dave, WOW! That was a killer post. Picking the right markets is the single most important factor that took me from losing money to making money with PPC. I missed out on the list building component in the beginning because the money was so good and everything was pretty much autopilot. Then I realized how much money I was leaving on the table by not capturing the market so I have since changed my business model. Thanks
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09-11-2009, 06:40 PM	#64
Show My Website Relentless Marketer War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Seattle Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Dave, Excellent information. Let me just add, if you are testing keywords for a market make sure your campaign is only going to show up in "Search Results" and not on the content network. This may be obvious or not, but to a new marketer this will save them $100's. Search results are "Keyword" based, content network is not Cheers

09-17-2009, 03:09 PM	#67
tonybhachu HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London U.K. Posts: 356 Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Hi Dave, Great post my friend! This is some of the best info I've read on PPC in a long time. Thanks, Tony

09-24-2009, 07:47 AM	#68
st0rm Active Warrior Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 74 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts Social Networking	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study I think i have read the info in this post about four times now, some great stuff here but rereading it make it sink in so much... thanks again Dave Can i ask what your feelings are towards the cost of PPC and the budget that I would have to invest daily to make a successful ROI? would I be better spreading the bugget say $10 a day accross a few CPA offers of just focus on one. I am only saying $10 as a sample i could go more but dont want to over spend.. Any help would be great..!

09-24-2009, 12:58 PM	#69
TimAbbott Warrior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Contact Info	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study perfect post!! Thanks ,it's very helpful for me

09-25-2009, 07:13 AM	#70
pauljeaston Pauljeaston Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 92 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Great information. Thank you for the enlightenment. This is certainly true for those people running and chasing their tails.
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09-25-2009, 10:11 AM	#71
folkcare Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: , , Australia. Posts: 79 Thanks: 26 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Well done Dave, It really IS the list - I wish I could just implement that and stop chasing the easy methods. Maybe tomorrow I will - well done. Maybe we're all afraid of writing auto-responder follow ups.
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09-26-2009, 01:01 PM	#72
JonathanBoettcher Compulsive Clicker War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Abbotsford, BC Posts: 541 Thanks: 15 Thanked 49 Times in 27 Posts Social Networking	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Some of the best advice I've seen on this forum for a while now. Thanks very much Dave! I think that gets at the heart of my problem...
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10-25-2009, 03:19 PM	#74
RicksterUK Warrior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Dave, I would also like to say congratulations on an outstanding post. Like many others who have commented on this thread, I have to agree it is one of the best posts I have read in a long, long time. It makes even more sense with the recent google changes and their clear dislike of affiliates to follow the methods you have explained here.

11-03-2009, 06:41 AM	#75
senny168 Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Can someone please explain to me what CPA stands for and what it is? Same for CPV. Thanks! Senny.

11-03-2009, 11:19 AM	#76
Fox30 HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: California Posts: 314 Thanks: 48 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts Contact Info	Re: PPC TO CPA Making Money Is About The Market Not The Offer - Example Case Study Dave, That is probably one of the best write ups I've ever seen not just for CPA & PPC, but for running a business in general. One of my first major mistakes starting out in CPA, as many newbies do, is choosing the CPA offer that was going to pay me the most before analyzing the market(competition and demand). Needless to say, I didn't make any money with this approach. It is one of the main things I changed before making my first dollar in IM. -Fox
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