Marc Perriere

Thanks so much Dave for taking the time to giving us fundamental marketing principles in order to explain one of the best approach to PPC 2 CPA. I really appreciate your generosity in sharing and also in the quality of your answers + your availability.

Your replies are also definitely worth gold and also really help me understand that making money is one thing (CPA offers are often referred to as awsome "fast cash" oppotunity), but not doing it at any price, that is without any understanding of the market. I really like that! What I think is implied in your original post is that, we sometimes may be blinded by the lot of cash that may be made, however taking PPC to CPA as a real business does really seem much wiser to me than just going staright to Adwords and promoting the first CPA offer available out there...

Your post really was helpful to me as well! Thank you again for giving personal and detailed examples on how to approach this specific type of marketing!

Marc Perrière, alias caromarc

Thumoney

It was mentioned more than once that building an email list in your market is an improvement over just direct PPC -> CPA.

I like to bring up one thing here. Many of the most popular CPA offers get a lot of user complaints mostly due to nontransparent re-billing, other offers produce email spam or financial offers even worse.

I think if you get into a relationship with users via a list, you have to make sure that these users will be happy in the end. Otherwise you are back to the one-time sale, because a really unhappy user will opt-out faster than you can refresh your stats.

So this leaves you to promote only very legit, non-rebilling CPA offers to your list. This rules out many of the popular health, financial etc. offers on the CPA networks.

Or you get so transparent with the rebilling option, that many users on your list will avoid this offer.

Either way, it looks like building a long-term, happy-subscriber list within the current CPA landscape is very difficult.

What are your opinions on that?

Thumoney.com - Master Affiliate Marketing with PPC - incl. the Thumoney Insider Mailing List

dropship

You're absolutely right about that. Your list will dwindle away to nothing if you keep promoting rebill products.

With that being said there are pelnty of other offers you can promote. For one of my niches, I have a total of 10 autoresponders of CPA offers that aren't rebills which convert and I still have a large list at the end of each day.

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Dave Ward

Hi Thumoney, Great points you make, here is my view..

Agreed

Again I agree, so my advice to anyone is think about this long term, and that should also help you decide the type of products you will promote Putting the rebill issue aside, because that could be a thread all on its own !. Even if as you say this is all it left you with, I can assure you it is more than enough to make money with. One of my inner circle clients , is doing over $150,000 per month in commissions, and none of it is from rebill products. Popular does not always mean the best . As I put in my original post " stop following the pack ".

Absolutely Not

Consistent performing offers in cpa have been around for years. The constant theme is they have always been offers that offer a solution to a common problem, offers that are free, offers that deal with dating , education, finding reliable tradesmen, refinancing, insurance, auto quotes , 2 for one restaurant meals etc, there is so much more out there than diet pills, and skin creams.

As dropship mentions in his post above, you can do just fine without the rebills.

Dave

@ Marc Perrière - Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it , and I am glad it is of help to you.

@ Kevin, I will reply to your Clickbank question later, but I have just broke my no Internet on a Sunday rule while my wife went shopping , so this is it for now .

Thumoney

Alright, good answers. To sum up the point that I really wanted to make, and I find you also supported it: long-term email marketing with rebill offers (those non-transparent ones) is not the way to go. It works with CPA with more legit offers!?

Thumoney.com - Master Affiliate Marketing with PPC - incl. the Thumoney Insider Mailing List

Dave Ward

Yes , I would agree you can't build a long term business using non transparent rebill offers. Fortunately there are plenty of alternatives.

didiert

Awesome Dave.

One of the best posts in long time.

Really usefull information.


Thanks for sharing

honestbizpro

Great Post Dave!

I think SEO and PPC is the perfect world for me. Both yield so much more rewards when you build on a market/niche and become an authority on it.

When you are getting natural search clicks plus your keyword researched PPC clicks it is a great position to be in.

Either way..if you choose markets that are not so disposable like the here today gone tommorow typical rebill madness you will enjoy better conversions and for longer periods.

breakdance

Yes Indeed Mr. HBZ, picking *long-term* offers is KEY, especially if you want to market CPA-offers in the long-run...!

Dave Ward

Thanks Didiert , glad it helped.

@ Honest Biz Pro, So true - don't build on sand.

Sipboy3000

Dave,

WOW! That was a killer post.

Picking the right markets is the single most important factor that took me from losing money to making money with PPC.

I missed out on the list building component in the beginning because the money was so good and everything was pretty much autopilot.

Then I realized how much money I was leaving on the table by not capturing the market so I have since changed my business model.

Thanks

Dave Ward

Kev,

this may be true, but as I put in the O.P. I would always look to capture the customer first, so the clickbank link on the landing page would not be an issue in this case.

Dave

KevScarb

Thanks Dave.. I get it, When buying traffic, try and capture their details first. Say it enough and I get there in the end

Dave Ward

Lol You won't go far wrong using that tactic Kev.

tonybhachu

Hi Dave,
Great post my friend!
This is some of the best info I've read on PPC in a long time.
Thanks,
Tony

st0rm

I think i have read the info in this post about four times now, some great stuff here but rereading it make it sink in so much... thanks again Dave

Can i ask what your feelings are towards the cost of PPC and the budget that I would have to invest daily to make a successful ROI? would I be better spreading the bugget say $10 a day accross a few CPA offers of just focus on one. I am only saying $10 as a sample i could go more but dont want to over spend..

Any help would be great..!

TimAbbott

perfect post!!

Thanks ,it's very helpful for me

pauljeaston

Great information. Thank you for the enlightenment. This is certainly true for those people running and chasing their tails.

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folkcare

Well done Dave,

It really IS the list - I wish I could just implement that and stop chasing the easy methods. Maybe tomorrow I will - well done. Maybe we're all afraid of writing auto-responder follow ups.

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JonathanBoettcher

Some of the best advice I've seen on this forum for a while now. Thanks very much Dave! I think that gets at the heart of my problem...

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Dave Ward

Hi,

first sorry for late reply, has been a busy week.

My advice, and the same as I tell my coaching students is first focus on one keyword theme and one product.

So I would not advise spending the $10 on a few CPA offers. I would suggest you focus on one. So one landing page to try and capture the customer to send to that offer. Focus on the keywords that are most relevant to that offer, and work to convert that traffic. Of course if you have the customer details, you can then send to other offers if they are related.

Dave

RicksterUK

Dave,

I would also like to say congratulations on an outstanding post. Like many others who have commented on this thread, I have to agree it is one of the best posts I have read in a long, long time. It makes even more sense with the recent google changes and their clear dislike of affiliates to follow the methods you have explained here.

senny168

Can someone please explain to me what CPA stands for and what it is? Same for CPV. Thanks! Senny.

Fox30

Dave,

That is probably one of the best write ups I've ever seen not just for CPA & PPC, but for running a business in general. One of my first major mistakes starting out in CPA, as many newbies do, is choosing the CPA offer that was going to pay me the most before analyzing the market(competition and demand). Needless to say, I didn't make any money with this approach.

It is one of the main things I changed before making my first dollar in IM.

-Fox

KevScarb

Senny, CPA stands for Cost Per Action , in our case it refers to getting paid for the customer going through a certain process, either buying a product, or filling out a form with information.

CPV is Cost Per View.

smam

Whats the best way to build your list. Whats works best or is more likely to entice someone to signup more. eBooks, free gifts, tips, discounts, sample of pages?

Regards

Kenster

Doesnt matter what it is, just make it enticing. If you are doing email submits, you can offer discounts and offer offers on aqueeze page or if you are doing a niche looking for information (like IM niche) then you will want to offer free informationlike through an ebook. If you are doing gaming niche, will want to giev tips.

So it all really depends on the audience and each of the types you listed can be used effectivty to build a large list.

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Kenster

Same here. I eventually learned a few things. First, who cares about payout. Conversion rates differ dramatically between seemingly similar offers so dont just focus on a high paying offer because who gives if it isnt converting. Look at your margins!

Also, traffic is the hard thing to find, not offers. Matching traffic to offer is critical, so instead of finding a good offer and finding good targeted traffic which is already hard in itself, why not focus a little more on locating a good traffic source and then monetizing it with an offer that fits the traffic.

Of course this doesnt always work and sometimes you will know (ie from your AM) that an offer is great, so you do the reverse, start with the offer and then find traffic.

Its an art as much as a science

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TalkSenseNow

Hi Dave,

Since it is a few months since you posted this case study, what is your current view on Google pay per click.

It seems search is getting tougher, I seem to be seeing more about the content network and pay per view traffic.

What are your views on the market now in Feb 2010 compared to Aug 2009?

Would be great to get your thoughts on this.

bioshift

Great Post Dave! Thanks for the insights!

Dave Ward

Hi there, that is a great question.

Search continues to get more difficult as each month passes, both in terms of increased competition and because Google keep moving the goal posts. 2010 is going to see more competitors, and more restrictions from Google on those search spots. I am not talking about the 1000's of accounts that were banned here, just the fact that more and more people are trying to compete for those prime spots, and the little tricks that used to keep you ahead, Google are slapping down.

To give you just one example,targeting competitors brands and domain names has always been a popular and effective method for internet marketers to generate leads or sales, but doing this on search today, usually lands you with a poor quality score and higher bid price. Not such a problem if you are Ford and you are targeting Toyota, but for the rest of us it makes it very difficult.

With only 11 positions on that front page, I would agree that search marketing on google itself is becoming brutal, You need deep pockets, and also, if you don't have a list and a back end product or a very high priced front end product, the days of making money direct from ppc search in most market niches is just about done. In terms of the search page,this is of course exactly what Google wants. They want those spots taken by companies who are in a market for the long haul, and not just looking to make a quick buck in any market they can, promoting as many offers as they can. The longer you bid on those terms, the cheaper the clicks become, but making money right out of the gate is certainly unlikely in the vast majority of cases. In the ppc market today, you need to understand lifetime customer value and sales funnels more than ever.

The content network for MOST markets is vastly underutilised. There are less quality score issues, there is more traffic, and if you have the right offer, is where you will make most money. Most traffic is not on search engines.

The content network has always been a lucrative traffic source for those who understand it, and with the changes google made last summer when they launched the new adwords interface, it became an even more effective traffic source.

So I think the reason you are seeing more about the content network is because there is less competition and the clicks are cheaper ( usually about 1/3rd of the cost of search depending on the market ) It is the perfect platform for lead generation marketing.

Now onto CPV/PPV The actual term is Cost Per View, though on this forum, PPV seems to be buzz word for it.

Cost per view traffic is a traffic source, just like anything else, and the same rules apply. I will actually write a post about this because it probably deserves one, but one thing people don't understand is traffic is traffic. If you don't know where it comes from,, or what it wants, you wont make money off it.

First CPV traffic is not cheap traffic as I see so many people who clearly know nothing about traffic claim. You pay per view, and even if it was 1 cent per view, that is $10 CPM , and that is not cheap, I can buy traffic all day long on adbuyer at $2 CPM People who tell you it is cheap traffic do not understand traffic metrics.

Can CPV traffic make you money ? yes of course, but only using the same process as you would to convert banner traffic, or PPC search traffic or google content network traffic. You need to know who your customer is for the offer you are selling. But with CPV traffic you also need to understand who the users of the software are. Do you know who the users of Traffic Vance and Media Traffic are ?

Like any traffic source, CPV when used correctly can be very effective, but also just like any traffic source, if you don't know what your are doing, you will get burned.

As I say, this was a great question, and I will do a post about CPV traffic to answer in more detail than this thread, but if you have anything specific, you can send me a pm.

Tonio Smith

I agree with you 100% when dealing with PPC you must target the market not market the target. In the CPA game things can get a little daunting when dealing with PPC but find someone that can help you one on one and you won't be upset you did.

jdem02

Great post. I am actually using some of this for my business... thanks alot.. with all this helpful info you should be able to start a decent business if you work hard at it.

bravo75

I bet there are a good few that are thinking "screw that", it sounds to much like hard work.

ecrisc45

whow that is very good information, I think I’ve looking for this kind of Info.
This will help me as a newbie a lot.
Thanks Dave, awesome.

treven

Dave,thank you very much for sharing all of this precius stuff.I am looking forward to read more and more posts by you.
Thanks again!

Plamen

macchiavelli

"YOU CANT COMPETE WITH IDIOTS"

Is so true!
Idiots ruin markets, idiots copy campaigns, idiots drive cpcs trough the roooofffff!!!

I make most of my money promoting FOREX trading bots and I never EVER bid on terms like FOREX or TRADING BOT....I look at the bigger picture.
FOREX marketers are most likely men who are a bit older and love money, find out where they hang out(online) and promote to them via ppc, email, cpv etc

Making money aint rocket science, once things click...its over.
Ive been in the game 4 years now, since I was 16, im 20 now and it finally clicked for me!

TalkSenseNow

Hi Dave,

Great information. Much appreciated. I'm just about to spend my first $200 on Media Traffic so wish me luck. Thanks again for your help.

TalkSenseNow

Hi again Dave,

Sorry to bother you again. I'm struggling with Google's content network as usual for one of my campaigns and I'm wondering If you think its better to go for text or image ads?

You'll probably say test, test and test but is there any evidence as to what works better in your experience. Are image ads more expensive generally than text ads because of the additional space they take up?

Also ( last question I promise) which image ad size is the most popular?

Thanks in advance :-)

JonathanBoettcher

Personally I'm getting great results currently with image ads. In many cases, clicks are as low as 9 cents apiece now (didn't start there though, started much higher). Conversely, text ads in my market are running me more like 25-30 cents a click.

Yes, you need to test, test, test, because all of this stuff will vary from market to market. However, in general I'd say it is worthwhile testing image ads against your text ads. Use your text ads as a control, so you know if things are better on a particular side of the fence.

Regarding sizes, again, this will be somewhat market (even site) specific. There's one site that does very well for me, and the 300x250 banner does well there. However, other sites favor the 728 header style banners. It is going to depend on what banner sizes the sites in your niche are using.

Get a feel for the top few sites in your niche, then look around those sites and see what banner sizes they're using. In the end, you'll probably need to make variants of each to test them .

Sounds kind of like work to me .

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FredFarnes

Hehe, and that's a really good thing!

So, you want to sell me another way to easily make "X" dollars in "X" days? ROFL too funny! IM success requires hard work and lots of time. Most newbies do not survive the steep learning curve. Anyone who says otherwise is probably selling you a fantasy.

Dave Ward

What Jonathan Said , and test, test , test

TalkSenseNow

Hey again Dave,

I've set up my campaigns on Media Traffic now but seem to be really struggling. I know its still perhaps early days but any suggestions?

Cheers in advance.

TalkSenseNow

TalkSenseNow

Thanks Jonathan .. Much appreciated and very helpful. Will update you on my progress :-) Cheers again.

Dave Ward

You need to understand that networks users and match offers to them. In truth that is the same for any traffic. But as you asked, my suggestion is to buy this PPV / CPV Manual - Learn The Right Way to do "Cost Per View" Marketing

I may be biased But It will stop you wasting money if you don't know what your doing with PPV . CPV traffic

Jag82

Bravo Dave. Bravo.

Target the right market. Build the list. Create a long term sustainable business.

You got it all nailed. Head on!

Thanks for this spectacular post. Awesome!

- Jag

ocd

Thanks Dave. That was an excellent post!

faceblogger

Wonderful and very very valuable. It's the most useful post I read during last six months!

John Wood

Dave, I have to say this was an excellent post.

Once you know what your ROI is on a email sales funnel you can even turn around and put your own offer on a good CPA network or two and pay the dollar or two per submit to really give your list a boost.

TBD

Affiliatebuddy

An Excellent Report.. in easier way. Newbies are still looking for some guide which they can follow in steps and must be endorsed by some real marketers to boost their confidence.

Ab

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