Bidding on 8,000 Keywords in Adwords

kenc138 · 11-30-2009, 01:03 PM

Hi Warriors,

I'm a little confused on the most cost effective method for bidding when you have a large keyword list.

At the moment, I've got things set to Auto with Max Bid set. Do people actually use manual bidding for larger KW lists? I want to manage my costs the best way possible, and I'm thinking Auto bidding even with a limit isn't the answer since it seems like Adwords sets all your keywords to the same CPC, you could be spending more than you need to for a click.

What would you all do? The thought of managing 8,000 keywords makes me want to delete my campaign, but on the other hand, if putting in the time now will save me money on clicks, then I'll go for it.

Any thoughts?

Brittany Lynch · 11-30-2009, 01:22 PM

Hmm .. I have to ask:

1)Is this campaign live yet?
2) why do you have 8000 keywords?
2b) How many products and or services are you advertising?
2c) are the destination urls for the keywords going to the same site?
3) Are you using analytics and conversion tracking
4) if yes to 2, are all 8000 of these keywords converting?

If you could answer these questions, it would help me answer your question

Brittany

affiliatelabs · 11-30-2009, 01:55 PM

Hi,

New to this forum. First post really. I am a PPC Marketer and would love to throw a little light on this.

It is great to have a solid keyword list. But, there are few points to keep in mind. Bidding has absolutely no co-relation with the size of your keyword list. Whether you have 10 keywords or thousands - it all depends on what your target ROI is from the campaign. You should keep that in mind.

That brings me to the next point - is your keyword list contained in just one adgroup or broken down into several adgroups? It is definitely not a good idea to have thousands of keywords in just one adgroup. I am not even sure if you'd be allowed to have thousands of keywords in one adgroup?

Also, is your keyword list relevant to your topic? Do you have a tracking system such as tracking202 or prosper202 in place to track your conversions?

Auto-bidding is never a good choice in most cases unless you're very sure that the product is going to convert and you'll get the positions you want. You could possibly try "position preference" instead (Adwords).

Rest, I agree with Brittany - more information would definitely be helpful.

butters · 11-30-2009, 02:20 PM

I actually thought google frowned upon this? Didn't people used to do this back in the old days but now google doesnt like it. (if it is one campaign.) I could be wrong tho.

kenc138 · 11-30-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by affiliatelabs

Hi,

New to this forum. First post really. I am a PPC Marketer and would love to throw a little light on this.

It is great to have a solid keyword list. But, there are few points to keep in mind. Bidding has absolutely no co-relation with the size of your keyword list. Whether you have 10 keywords or thousands - it all depends on what your target ROI is from the campaign. You should keep that in mind.

That brings me to the next point - is your keyword list contained in just one adgroup or broken down into several adgroups? It is definitely not a good idea to have thousands of keywords in just one adgroup. I am not even sure if you'd be allowed to have thousands of keywords in one adgroup?

Also, is your keyword list relevant to your topic? Do you have a tracking system such as tracking202 or prosper202 in place to track your conversions?

Auto-bidding is never a good choice in most cases unless you're very sure that the product is going to convert and you'll get the positions you want. You could possibly try "position preference" instead (Adwords).

Rest, I agree with Brittany - more information would definitely be helpful.

Gentlemen

Thanks for the replies. Here is some more information that might help:

- The keywords are broken into 300 different adgroups since the campaign targets several major cities. I have included all 3 match types for each keyword.

- The landing page and silo structured site that links to it are all very relevant and I made extensive use of DKI and city-based themes for extra targeting.

- I use prosper202 and track everything to the keyword level.

Quote:

Is this campaign live yet?

Yes it is, and it's converting pretty well. The problem is that I'm paying out the ass for clicks. I'll get some conversions, then all my ROI is trashed within the next set of clicks that don't convert.

Quote:

2) why do you have 8000 keywords?

Geo-targeting major cities, 10 highly relevant KW per ad group with broad, phrase and exact match to make 30 per adgroup.

Quote:

2b) How many products and or services are you advertising?

This is a single CPL offer.

Quote:

2c) are the destination urls for the keywords going to the same site?

The destination URLs change based on the city and the keyword used.

Quote:

3) Are you using analytics and conversion tracking

Definitely.

Quote:

4) if yes to 2, are all 8000 of these keywords converting?

No they aren't. I'll probably go on a deleting spree soon. But even then, I'll still be left with a ton of keywords to manage bidding for.

I hope this helps, and thanks for the replies.

globalim · 11-30-2009, 03:21 PM

I would say instead of bidding on 8,000 keywords at once, why not start with 100 and slowly scale it up. This way you'll be able to see which words are converting and which are not. This owuld be the best way to control your budget

PPV Affiliate · 11-30-2009, 11:38 PM

What you need to be careful about is adding keywords slowly. Don't just dump all 8,000 in there...Google won't respond well. Add 500-1000 every couple days after your campaigns are approved and you should have no problem.

You definitley need to weed out non converting keywords ASAP with a list this large or it will be hard to maintain a positive ROI.

kenc138 · 12-01-2009, 03:25 PM

Globalim and PPV Affiliate,

Thanks for the information. I'm still pretty new to this stuff and the Adwords learning curve is pretty brutal. I'll change up the campaign and approach it from a slower approach per your input. After reading your posts, it definitely makes more sense to try it that way.

Thanks again,
Ken

11-30-2009, 01:03 PM	#1
kenc138 Active Warrior Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 49 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Bidding on 8,000 Keywords in Adwords Hi Warriors, I'm a little confused on the most cost effective method for bidding when you have a large keyword list. At the moment, I've got things set to Auto with Max Bid set. Do people actually use manual bidding for larger KW lists? I want to manage my costs the best way possible, and I'm thinking Auto bidding even with a limit isn't the answer since it seems like Adwords sets all your keywords to the same CPC, you could be spending more than you need to for a click. What would you all do? The thought of managing 8,000 keywords makes me want to delete my campaign, but on the other hand, if putting in the time now will save me money on clicks, then I'll go for it. Any thoughts?

11-30-2009, 01:22 PM	#2
Brittany Lynch Brittany Lynch -ExGoogler War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 342 Thanks: 65 Thanked 53 Times in 33 Posts	Re: Bidding on 8,000 Keywords in Adwords Hmm .. I have to ask: 1)Is this campaign live yet? 2) why do you have 8000 keywords? 2b) How many products and or services are you advertising? 2c) are the destination urls for the keywords going to the same site? 3) Are you using analytics and conversion tracking 4) if yes to 2, are all 8000 of these keywords converting? If you could answer these questions, it would help me answer your question Brittany

11-30-2009, 01:55 PM	#3
affiliatelabs Active Warrior Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Washington D.C Posts: 49 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Bidding on 8,000 Keywords in Adwords Hi, New to this forum. First post really. I am a PPC Marketer and would love to throw a little light on this. It is great to have a solid keyword list. But, there are few points to keep in mind. Bidding has absolutely no co-relation with the size of your keyword list. Whether you have 10 keywords or thousands - it all depends on what your target ROI is from the campaign. You should keep that in mind. That brings me to the next point - is your keyword list contained in just one adgroup or broken down into several adgroups? It is definitely not a good idea to have thousands of keywords in just one adgroup. I am not even sure if you'd be allowed to have thousands of keywords in one adgroup? Also, is your keyword list relevant to your topic? Do you have a tracking system such as tracking202 or prosper202 in place to track your conversions? Auto-bidding is never a good choice in most cases unless you're very sure that the product is going to convert and you'll get the positions you want. You could possibly try "position preference" instead (Adwords). Rest, I agree with Brittany - more information would definitely be helpful.

11-30-2009, 02:20 PM	#4
butters Lee Bartlett War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Harlow, Essex, Uk Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 81 Thanked 173 Times in 133 Posts	Re: Bidding on 8,000 Keywords in Adwords I actually thought google frowned upon this? Didn't people used to do this back in the old days but now google doesnt like it. (if it is one campaign.) I could be wrong tho.

11-30-2009, 03:21 PM	#6
globalim Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Bidding on 8,000 Keywords in Adwords I would say instead of bidding on 8,000 keywords at once, why not start with 100 and slowly scale it up. This way you'll be able to see which words are converting and which are not. This owuld be the best way to control your budget

11-30-2009, 11:38 PM	#7
PPV Affiliate HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 224 Thanks: 9 Thanked 45 Times in 36 Posts Social Networking	Re: Bidding on 8,000 Keywords in Adwords What you need to be careful about is adding keywords slowly. Don't just dump all 8,000 in there...Google won't respond well. Add 500-1000 every couple days after your campaigns are approved and you should have no problem. You definitley need to weed out non converting keywords ASAP with a list this large or it will be hard to maintain a positive ROI.

12-01-2009, 03:25 PM	#8
kenc138 Active Warrior Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 49 Thanks: 10 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Bidding on 8,000 Keywords in Adwords Globalim and PPV Affiliate, Thanks for the information. I'm still pretty new to this stuff and the Adwords learning curve is pretty brutal. I'll change up the campaign and approach it from a slower approach per your input. After reading your posts, it definitely makes more sense to try it that way. Thanks again, Ken