smolodoy

Could AMs ever lie about the conversion rate and EPC?

Kenster

If they are telling you something, they can lie about anything.

But remember, at the end of the day, they make money when you make money. The more you make, the more they make, so in general the interests are aligned!

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williamrs

Maybe it's possible, but I think that it's not likely to happen. As Kenster said, they earn nothing by fooling you, since they will make money only if you make money, too.

Anyway, always work with trusted networks, and if you have doubt about an epc or other similar information, look for the same offer on another network and compare the numbers.


William

RyanEagle

It happens all the time - but if an AM lies to you then you will lose trust in them (and probably stop running with the network).

My AM's pull EPC's from our internal campaigns - they also range depending on the type of traffic going into them.

JDE

I spoke with one of my AMs today who told me that one CPA network AM he cross promotes offers with, (and is mentioned frequently on WF), admitted to him that his network frequently "shaves leads", and also that their advertisers frequently "shave" leads. Shaving, or "scrubbing" is a nice way of saying "Stealing". It is a big problem, and is a good reason not to put all of your CPA golden "eggs" in one basket.

My AM also told me that another network he is both an affiliate for, and also has a network account with will shave leads with his (and other) affiliate accounts, but NOT when he sends the same leads through his "network account" with that company. One of my AM's affiliates used to send traffic through this company as an affiliate using organic traffic, and was only getting 1-2 conversions per month. This affiliate then started using my AM's network to run the SAME offer through the same company, and started getting 1-2 conversions per DAY. At $34 per lead, this was substantial. Same amount of traffic, same source for the traffic (organic), same company. The only difference was that the traffic was sent through my AM's network account with this company, and not a direct affiliate account.

After hearing this, and after reading of other affiliates' experience with other networks, it makes me very suspicious about who to do business with. Sure, CPA networks need to be concerned with fraud, for good reasons. But we, as publishers / affiliates also need to be aware that we are just as susceptible to fraud.

Just as testing is critically important for all aspects of the offers we promote, it is also important, if not critical (IMHO) that we test the exact same offer with multiple networks to see where the best conversion is.

I would also like to see a bigger presence of Affiliate Managers or network owners on Warrior Forum. I appreciate the fact that Ryan from (EWA) is not only reading many of the threads on WF, but also contributing to them. I don't see other AMs contributing much to WF.

Is there any kind of rating system / blog either on or off WF, where affiliates can discuss their experiences with the different networks, both good and bad? With all the potential for fraud, this might be a good idea. Anyone willing to take this on?!

ThousandDollarDays

Great post, JDE. It's always a good idea to not only split test offers, but to split test the same offer across 2 or more networks.

ChrisBa

most definitely

smolodoy

Man now the a(zoo)gle ads got me even more suspicious after reading JDEs post, I mean out of almost a thousands clicks only 2 conversions and all traffic is targeted, from search engines! I know a thousands click is nothing but when it all comes from your review/rating page from search engines, I know it should have a bit more conversions then that.. Thats just makes me wanna switch my networks right this moment.. I mean I'm enrolled with many but promoting mostly azoogle ads offers..

JDE

All I can say is that you hit the nail directly on the head. If you want to discuss further, PM me.

smolodoy

RyanEagle whats up with your offers many of them getting paused, I hate it.. right when you've done creating a review lp page that offer gets paused.. is it just paused for me or for everybody else?

InstantCashMaverick

Shaving leads is very common in CPA networks. Although my AM would never admit to it I'm almost certain legit leads have been shaved from my account.

In one day I received two actions once I had set up this campaign after which point the trail went dry. I didn't believe I could get two leads so quick after implementing my strategy and then get nothing in a competitive niche such as online dating. Anyways I checked it out ... got a friend to sign up through my link and low and behold no action!

I then tried it myself through a proxy server and again no action... although I could understand why this lead may have been 'shaved'.

Which network was giving the bad conversions?
It would be interesting to see if I'm in the same situation...

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DrewClement

It's one of those sad but true factors about doing business online. Personally, knowing the inner workings of our network, there is no lead shaving done at all on our part, ever. We are not a CPA network of course, so the "system" may be seen as a bit different, but if long term success is a goal then shaving leads makes no sense at all.

The same thing goes for lying about conversation rates. While a lie of that kind may benefit in the short term, it does nothing to guarantee the success of a network in the long run and that is why it is something that we simply never do.

We rely on affiliates to bring in sales, and thus they are cherished as a prime factor in the success of our business.

Drew

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Drew@SellHealth.com

InstantCashMaverick

Hey. I can't actually PM you back ... not enough posts yet. But yeh I thing that would be a good idea to maybe even review the individual networks. If your up for it we could do some inter-network testing and come back with results?

I think the unfortunate thing is that whichever network you join there is going to be lead shaving. I think its just a case of weeding out the networks that really scam the affiliates out of their hard work.

The network you mentioned about being well recommended on the forum is well recommended because it is easy to get into ... not necessarily because it is the most reliable.

The other network I don't think I have heard of, which may explain the lead shaving...

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JDE

Just sent you a PM with my contact info.

I would like to see a feedback system, similar to Amazon's where people can rate the product (the network), and write reviews about them. I think this will help to keep affiliates / publishers informed as to which networks to use, and which ones to avoid. This could also help keep all of the networks "honest", and prevent bad networks from scraping (stealing) leads, and giving the industry a bad name.

The sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps we could get a few warriors together to "pitch in" a few $$ to outsource the feedback system, or perhaps there is already one that we could utilize by altering the source code a bit. I know there are a lot of programmers on WF. Anyone reading this know of one that could help us?

smolodoy

thats a good idea JDE but check this out theres already a website like that 460+ Affiliate Networks, CPA Networks Directory and Affiliate Programs Reviews | AffiliatePaying.com

JDE

I have seen this site. It is VERY rare that any of the networks get less than 4/5 stars for all categories. Only Lead Cola and a couple other have 3 stars.

This leads me to believe that it's "possible" these reviews are biased, if not completely worthless.

If you go to "Add Network", then go down to where it says "Required: SubjectThen select the Drop Down menu, here is where ANY network can choose a free listing, OR they can choose to advertise on this website!!!

The owner of the site would lose ad revenue if there were bad reviews about a network that advertises with them. So just how biased can these "reviews" be? Probably just as believable as the "Review" sites many affiliates create to promote an affiliate product, with a prominent affiliate link at the bottom of the review. As we all know, many of these "review" sites are scams, flogs or "farticles"! (I love this one!)

The type of review site I am talking about WILL NOT allow any networks to advertise on it, PERIOD. The only reviews will be written by "seasoned" WF members who do not work for any network, and who are active CPA publishers, with proof that they are accepted to the network they are reviewing.

Sure, this might be difficult to implement, especially the verification process, but just think of how much time, money and frustration it will save all of us, when it is finally in operation. This could lead to other good things too, but more on that later.