azmanar

Hi,

I'm a bit concerned regarding FREE GIFTS & CARDS after stumbling into quite a number of complains about it.

The usual complains are participants have to buy certain goods to get their free gifts. And such goods could cost more or the same or less than the promised value in Free Gifts or Cards.

Other complains are about the number of processes that an individual participant had to go through. Some upto 14 steps. During this process a lot of personal info have already been given out. And in the end, participants did not receive their gifts.

To the extend that some people really regard Free Gift & Card offers as scams. This type of generalization is unfair but is quite common among people from every creed.

IMHO, it is also not fair for participants in offer programs to want something for free and not giving anything in return. I think this is the nature of some humans wanting everything for free and being selfish to give.

I am bound to interact with all sorts of mindsets once I start my marketing in Forums, Groups, FB and Video channel communities

Can anyone address my concerns and share opinions? I need to prepare myself once I'm bombarded with amusing questions, cynical remarks, cunning wits and popular beliefs. I would like to be personal until I get so tired that I start outsourcing.

Newbies like me would appreciate some insights from seniors.

Thank you.

Kenster

Many of the offers are a bit scammy but you get to pick which offers you wish to promote!!

Of course nobody is going to give out free $1000 gift cards or iPads for nothing, so there is an expectation that there is something more that needs to be done, be it signing up for all kinds of trials, buying other products, etc. At the end of the day, most of the offers probably do have a light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel is often a long, headache and possibly costly journey. The advertiser is only going to give out a $1000 ipad if he gets $1000+ in return, right. BUT, since many (majority) of people drop out through the tunnel, it doesnt necessarily mean the visitor needs to spend over the $1000 to get the $1000 product in return. Does that make sense?


But, as I said, you decide where you want to play. I dont do those kinds of offers anymore for personal reasons mostly, but there still are people making a lot from them.

My advice would be to take an hour and think about who you are and who you want to be. Only promote what you feel comfortable promoting which will be different for each person. A good test is whether you would be proud to tell your mom or grandmother exactly what you do!

Six Figure Alliance Training/Coaching Course...


Kenster's Six Figure Mission Blog | Kenster's Six Figure Alliance | WarriorJV - WSO Launches

ChrisBa

I'm guessing you might be referring to e-mail submits? Part of me thinks "read the fine print" the other half feels for these people.. although the email submit thing isn't nearly as bad as some of the rebills out there.

jeffrey73

They are a scam. But anyone expecting to get a $500 or $1,000 free gift card, without giving something in return, is somewhat of an idiot. They deserve to get scammed, because they are the same type of people buying a $20 scratch ticket expecting to win $100,000.

Matthew NY

I wouldn't call them a SCAM. Scam is a very strong word. Scams are what Bernie Madoff did, and when innocent willing people get money stolen red handed by misleading them.

The FREE promotions are just ways of marketing. There is fine print, they let you know before you submit your email (which isn't exactly signing your life away) that you will need to do a couple of things before you get your FREE reward.

I can call it a scam if they tell you do to a dozen things, and in the end, if you do everything right, you don't get your reward, and the advertiser bails on you.

Sure, its a bit deceiving, but I suppose that's what marketing has come to.

Kenster

Many marketing campaigns in the offline and online world have some sort of deception, some sort of bait, or some sort of misrepresentation. We are talking about most companies out there. Grey Goose claiming their vodka is a "premier" and "winner of a taste test" fine vodka. I like Grey Goose myself but they normally do terrible in taste testings. They make money by playing up their name and calling on some random taste test they happen to win.


This happens everywhere to some degree. Its the nature of marketing...there is a spectrum of how truthful a campaign is and its up to us to decide where in that spectrum we want to play. I'm not saying all marketing campaigns are lies, there not. But, if you leave out information or present information in a biased way that supports your company or brand, then you stray farther and farther away from absolute white


In any event, there are offers of all natures. I have seen pretty blatant scammy stuff where users are not only misled, but then have little recourse. There are other offers that are 100% awesome.

Six Figure Alliance Training/Coaching Course...


Kenster's Six Figure Mission Blog | Kenster's Six Figure Alliance | WarriorJV - WSO Launches

Cash37

They ARE NOT scams.

Free sites are acutally how I found out about the CPA world. You would not BELIEVE the stuff I got off them (after doing the CPA offers of course)

Here is just a list:

-the 6 year old laptop Im on now
-the 27 inch TV Im watching right now
-2 xboxes
-over $300 cash
-a generation 3 ipod

and plenty more. People in college thought I was rich but I wasn't. I was using those free sites to get all my tech stuff!

How to Sell Art Online

storge

Kenster,do you mind let us know what kind of offers are these?
'There are other offers that are 100% awesome'

CREATE TRUST CREATE VALUE

azmanar

Thanks Cash. This is a major relief. I appreciate it very much.

From the comments I read from seniors here, give me the impression that I ought to be selective if I choose to promote such offers.

I'm assuming that the reputable Affiliate Networks are sensible in accepting advertisers based on some form of integrity indicators. They also have their image to safeguard. Afterall, trustworthy image is the most important selling factor, if long-term business is the goal.

I don't know, I'm just assuming. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

williamrs

The process is:

Email/zip submit -> Long form submit -> Offers

The email/zip submit has low value. The long form can be sold to insurance companies and other clients. The offers (which may involve a cost) is where they make most of the money. The company running the email/zip submit offer acts as an affiliate (similar) for the merchants of the other offers.

As Kenster said, it's obvious that no one will start giving away computers, ipods and other gifts without making any money. However, most companies to deliver the gift if you complete all the necessary forms and offers.


William

HorseStall

Most people get that nothing is *really* free, even something like Google Analytics. There is a trade off you are giving Google data in exchange or a tool to evaluate your web traffic. People assess what they are giving up and determine if the "cost" is worth it.

Horse Gifts :: Dog Gifts :: Wild Animal Gifts :: Mythical Creatures

Kenster

Agree 100%

Some people argue that its the consumers repsonsibility to read all fine print. The problem arises when many internet users are completely new and naive. Things are much looser in terms of regulation online but people newer to the internet dont always realize that.

Many of us marketers have been online for years so its easy to forget the number of completely new people online every single day (mostly older generations).

So its a tough issue

Six Figure Alliance Training/Coaching Course...


Kenster's Six Figure Mission Blog | Kenster's Six Figure Alliance | WarriorJV - WSO Launches

PrivateCitizen

I'd say a good indicator of whether a particular offer is a scam is to see if they have a good rating with the BBB (ie. relatively few complaints compared to the volume of transactions, and if the complaints were resolved.) Of course, not all products related to CPA are registered with the BBB, in which case I like to google "(product name) scam" or "reviews" and if few (or no) relevant negative listings can be found, that means (at least for now) that the product is pretty safe to market. Or you could just order the free trial yourself and see what happens...

ckweb

Let me correct this guy by saying, most of them aren't. There have been companies running freebie offers that don't deliver on their promises even AFTER the customer does all the required steps.

That being said, if your wanting to promote this offer and worried they won't hold their end of the deal up, ask your affiliate manager if they've been around awhile and have a proven track record or not.

azmanar

CK & PrivateCitizen,

Thanks for the good tips.

This reply is a bit longwinded but will benefit other newbies like me.

I've been checking around. Some consumer groups are actually testing these offers. So marketing companies are being extra careful now. I understand CPA Networks are now being more careful in selecting their advertising partners.

Most offers run by reputable networks are legit. Participants did received their FREE GIFTS. Some just drop-out in the middle for some reasons, so they don't get anything.

There are usually 3 steps to complete in Free Gift Offers. Offers come in different formats such as 2-2-2 or 2-2-4 or 2-2-9. The figure represents the number of options a person must choose and complete in each step.

Lets take 2-2-9 as an example.

Usually the first step is the easiest. The person are presented by many options to choose from. A survey is a must and he can choose another option out of scores presented to him. So that's 2 options. They usualy call this as Silver.

In Step 2, he must complete another 2 options out of many more options and bonus options. They call this as Gold.

In Step 3, which is the final step, he must complete 9 options out of many options. Many call this as Platinum and some times Premier.

To complete each step, he may have to spend money on subscriptions, free trials and shipment fees. Interesting products actually. BUT its not free. The total amount involved could be between $30 to $80. So in the end, he gets his $500 to $1,000 worth of gift cards or free gifts.

The most well known for scammy-like offers are for the free iPhones, Laptops and Air Tickets. This could cost participants more than buying the product directly. Offers like that usually refers to 2-2-2 and 2-2-4 formats.

He may have to spend something like $3,000 fulfilling options to get iPhones & Laptop gifts. For Air-tickets the risk is lower, he may have to spend $250 buying things and get a free air-ticket worth $200.

Offers in 2-2-2 and 2-2-4, participants may complete lesser offers, BUT the options presented are usually lesser. This means, the person is presented with only a few options in the final steps.

For example, say if the person is being presented in a 2-2-2 with 4 options in order to complete the final Step 3 before getting an iPhone:
1. Buy a EURORAIL ticket for the summer holidays
2. Buy a Time-sharing apartment in Acapulco
3. Buy a Caribbean Cruise Ticket for 10 days
4. Buy a Golf-Club set

If he can't afford or not interested at all, he will not complete the final step. He could have already spent $1,000 already in step 2 and not willing to spend further in Step 3. So he drops out.

So, this is the dangers of 2-2-2 and 2-2-4 where participants have lesser options and the options presented are like telling them to quit. Plain straight doozie.

One last note, there are deadlines for participants to complete the offers. Between 60 to 90 days. Some even upto 180 days.

With this knowledge, at least now I'm able to be more selective in choosing Free Gift offers for my traffic :
1) Go for 2-2-9 offers, which is less scammy eventhough its harder work.
2) Avoid expensive hi-tech offers, unless I have details from AM.
3) Get the advise of AM if I'm unsure.
4) Be aware by digging Scam Review Sites & Consumer Groups.

Now I can start my biz mission with a clear conscience.

Did I missed anything?

webapex

If not scams, because they do live up to the fine print terms, they certainly are deceptive.

I didn't see mentioned the fact that they also profit from the great number of people who give up before fulfilling all of the requirements, the drop out rate has to be key having a profitable offer. It would be fascinating to here the actual percentage who complete the offer.
The terms of the higher price $500 and up offers also require you to recruit around 1 to 3 others, who also have to complete the requirements before you collect, that's got to be a tough one.

One convenient place to review such offers is one of the sites that kick back a little of their finder's fee, like cashcrate.

storge

While i believe its alright to go through the process to get the gift but if consumers have to pay more than what these offers suggest,then it will appear as a scam to them.The reputation of the merchants will be affected,consumers will stay away from such offers and if this practice get viral,then CPA industry may be affected by these scammy offers in the long run.

CREATE TRUST CREATE VALUE

azmanar

Thanks for the advice Webapex. I saw that recruitment technique used in Step 2:
> get some friends to join certain subscription and get a bonus
> get some friends to participate in certain ways and that is considered as an action completed.

That's called viral marketing and I don't see anything wrong with that. TV Commercials are even more deceptive.

Talking about deception, lets take a look at how an Affiliate from MaxBounty raked in $170,000 through deception. I was like shocked on how he did it. He was like owning Facebook. hehehe.

Facebook sued the guy in October 2010 and MaxBounty was also dragged along to court because of that.

He really messed-up Max Bounty. Max Bounty is an oft mentioned Aff Network in WF and this case would be of interest to a lot of us here.

I've never worked with Max Bounty before, so I don't know them at all. But they still have my sympathy because what they're facing right now is a potentially vicious giant who just OWNED THE WORD "FACE" as their copyright (throughout the world).

Can you imagine the impact on Max Bounty caused by an affiliate's deceptive methods.

Here's the link to the news report from Computer World.

I hope my dig is useful.

Kenster

The CPA industry as a whole is affected by this, but the reputation of the merchant isnt a huge concern. Remember that the scam is happening on the consumer side so if for some reason the merchant does get into hot water, I can guarantee there will be a new company forming the very next day by the same people. Its not like these companies are really "brands" so consumer sentiment doesnt mean as much.

Remember, when people are doing sketchy things and making a ton doing it, their concern for the industry as a whole isnt a strong influencer. Money is much more of an influencer.

But I do agree...these types of offers do taint the industry which is sad

Six Figure Alliance Training/Coaching Course...


Kenster's Six Figure Mission Blog | Kenster's Six Figure Alliance | WarriorJV - WSO Launches

storge

hi,Kenster,

I agree with you that the reputation of the merchants may not be a huge concern to consumers.However,consumers are constantly 'bombarded' by these scammy offers,more and more consumers will 'run away' from such offers eventually if they do not get the value they want from these offers.Consumers may not be able to distinguish which offers are scammy ones on the surface and may shun from offers that do provide value altogether.

There might be less and less new companies set up since more and more consumers might not 'bite' these offers in the long run.In the short run,the CPA industry is still very vibrant and active,may not be in the long haul if merchants are not transparent and ethical in their practices and do not create trust and create value for consumers.

My thots only!

CREATE TRUST CREATE VALUE

williamrs

You're right, but as Kenster said, companies don't care too much about the industry in the long-term when they are making a killing now. Also, this industry is very flexible, some models may stop working after a certain time, but then others will come. There are scams since the day people started selling and exchanging things, so I don't think that it will kill the CPA or any other industry.

No doubt that the scammers make things harder for everybody, but people always find a different approach to sell the same thing.


William

storge

Companies who do not care too much about the customers,providing value and create and maintain trust with consumers in the long term will suffer.They can try different approaches to sell the same things but if these things do not provide value and destroy the trust in the consumers with them,they can try 1 million different approaches,eventually their profits will decline and maybe even losses when consumers see through their tricks,shun and reject them.

I do not think CPA industry will be killed but more and more consumers will dictate what kind of value companies would provide.As a result,there will be a revamp in the CPA industry,which is good cos companies will have to ensure their approaches are transparent and ethical and provide value in order to retain customers.Deceptive approaches will always be discovered and rebuked by consumers in the long run.

Advertisers that do not stand to what they are promising or they are having fraudulent activities have no place in this industry. Everyone should take action to shun scammy offers and ensure that CPA industry will still remain vibrant and active.My question to these companies is do they want to stay in the industry in the long haul?

CREATE TRUST CREATE VALUE

azmanar

Hi,

This kind of intellectual discourse is really motivating me. I love it.

Please check out my new video. A very frank one.

azmanar

Kenster,

Thanks for triggering some higher ideas.

Right now, I'm trying to switch from CPS Affiliate mode to a CPA Affiliate mode.

My mind is so critical about things that it slows down my actions. I need to have information on a lot of things before I move on to the next step. This transition is really hard but I will reach there. Like someone said, towards the CPA Mindset.

I wonder how is it like to be a CPA Merchant? Are you one of them ( the honest ones of course )? What it takes to be one? What is the benefit like? Gazillions?

jeffrey73

This is true. If they actually live up to the fine print, then they really cannot be considered a "scam". However, many offers do NOT live up to the fine print, and they are all for the most part deceptive. Anyone with any common sense can tell that nothing is ever 100% FREE in business.

Kenster

I agree with your point 100% but I think the important thing to realize is that many of these CPA merchants, particularly the ones with offers that are more deceptive, have short term views. Offers normally don't run for years and years and normally its regulatory bodies that would shut down a merchant. With that in mind, these companies can just start up a new company doing something similar (or different). The thing is that for better or worse the "reputation" of a merchant means far less in this industry than traditional industries.

These merchants care about their reputation mostly to run offers through the networks, so its not a consumer --> merchant reputation issue.

Because of this shorter term perspective, the interests of the industry and the individual merchants aren't necessarily aligned.

Six Figure Alliance Training/Coaching Course...


Kenster's Six Figure Mission Blog | Kenster's Six Figure Alliance | WarriorJV - WSO Launches

samson132

You are right about all this free gift away stuff online,, Most of them don,t give you anything all they do is get your name and email address

Kenster

My bet is that most do in fact have a gift at the end of the tunnel. The trouble isn't whether you get the gift as it getting through the hurdles and costs within that funnel.

Six Figure Alliance Training/Coaching Course...


Kenster's Six Figure Mission Blog | Kenster's Six Figure Alliance | WarriorJV - WSO Launches

storge

I do agree with you,you mentioned "With that in mind, these companies can just start up a new company doing something similar (or different). The thing is that for better or worse the "reputation" of a merchant means far less in this industry than traditional industries." In addition,in my previous post i mentioned I do believe these short term view merchants will be more concerned about the decline in profits or even losses if they continue to offer deceptive offers,especially when more consumers begin to shun these offers.

When short term view merchants who are not transparent,ethical and do not provide value for consumers will struggle to survive in the industry.As I mentioned before,they can use 1 million approaches or start new businesses to do the same things but their tricks will be seen through by more and more consumers or as you said,the regulatory bodies.I believe they will be more concern with their earnings than their reputation.

CREATE TRUST CREATE VALUE

the one they call D

It all comes down to nothing at all ever is truely free. want a free report give them your email, want a free ipod jump though a bunch of hoops designed to profit the company promoting the free ipod offer, hell even reading a blog with 'free' information it still costs you time. due your due dillegence and research the offers if its a scam aviod it if and more importantly its up to you if you even want to promote these kinds of offers, don't like them then move on to other types of offers. some of the legit offers can 'cost' the consumer much less than the cost of the freebie simply because the company has ways of procuring the free item cheaper than rrp so in the end the company and the consumer both win. Ultimately check the offers and make a choice do or do not promote no time wasting making up your mind