GrooveTrain

Lets say that you're tracking everything. You can track who clicks through and completes your offer REGARDLESS of whether or not a tracking pixel fires. Lets also say that while you are working, you notice yourself get a conversion, yet you get no payout. Yes, you just caught scrubbing/shaving in the act. You know the network, the offer, and that you just did work and didn't get paid, and you can prove it.

What would you do?

I noticed this actually happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I don't really care too much about a dollar or so, but if I can catch it in the act, would you say its worth it to say something? Or is scrubbing/shaving really just one of those things you have to deal with whether you can prove it or not?

PeerFly

I suggest reading these three blog posts on how email submits work:

• My Prespective as an Affiliate, Advertiser and Network Owner on Scrubbing and Shaving
• Understanding How Email Submits Work
• Shaving/Scrubbing and Email Submits – What you Need to Know.

In addition to those blog posts, checkout these threads:

• This Is How To Stay Away From Email Submit Scrubs
• Wolfstormmedia and shaving?
• Clicks Not Converting There IS a Conspiracy
• Neverblue committing highway robbery?

GrooveTrain

Oh yes, I've read through those. I don't recall seeing anyone actually keeping track of exact times, dates and natures of the scrubs, though, and I wonder if it would be worth it to do? For example, the one I am thinking of that happened to me happened on the very first conversion I brought to that offer. I may have just missed something reading through those threads though. I'll go read them again.

Itachi

Thanks Peerfly nice post, i enjoyed reading the : Shaving/Scrubbing and Email Submits – What you Need to Know. | The Micro Affiliate

Makes sense, even though my traffic quality is really bad (twitter) im thinking some of my email submits i post should have more leads than i had ..

John Galt

I don't know what you'd hope to accomplish by complaining about it; that won't make it stop. Your time is better spent making $$.

If your pushing quality leads just move to a different network. If it's the advertiser switch to a competing offer or develop your own. Problem solved.

mtmjohn

Definitely check out this post - Email Submit Case Study: How Many Of Your Leads Are Stolen? | StackThatMoney - The Affiliate Marketing Source

SuccessMarketer

I would focus on doing my best and if you think they are scrubbing I would move to another network.

Having said that, the reality is that many Networks will do that... but we also need to remember these same Networks are also having to constantly fight people bringing bogus leads and - basically - commiting fraud.

I guess what I am tryng to say -IMHO- do not worry so much about leaving a few dollars on the table, worry about earning a few thousand!

all the best

JasonWestwick

Very true, obviously it depends on the volume of scrubbiing if you can pinpoint the vast majority of your converting leads are getting scrubbed maybe it's time to move elsewhere.

The reality is, this happens across the board, as an affiliate it's something you will have to come to terms with and accept or move on and promote elsewhere or something else entirely. There really is not an awful lot you can do apart from being upfront and open with your network and AM and ensuring you've got enough margin to cover potential scrubs.

GrooveTrain

And I'm fully resolved to deal with it that if that's the only option. However, this is a speculative thread. I'm not concerned with how things work in practice, but rather how things should work in theory.

I'm considering the legal aspect. Business transactions are legally contracts, right? I agree to promote an offer and bring emails in, you agree to pay me for each email I bring in. If I bring you an email submit and you don't pay me, isn't that technically a breach of contract? Can I not technically sue the advertiser/network for breach of contract and use my records showing exact times, dates, and natures of scrubs as evidence?

The practice may simply be reality, but the whole concept of scrubbing and shaving sounds like cheating on the end of the advertiser/network. Why should we simply stand by and let this happen if there is anything at all that can be done to stop the practice altogether in the first place? There HAS to be a better way to handle fraud, because as it stands affiliates are prevented from being fraudulent, and we sit back and do nothing while the advertisers and networks basically commit fraud. Cheating to prevent cheating. This is correct thinking somehow?

Am I wrong?

ChrisBa

Really what can you do? Really nothing.

The best course of action is split your traffic between networks, and if you notice one network has less conversions than others then cut them out

blazr63

It's the nature of the beast when promoting CPA offers. I've also dealt with excessive lead reversals using MaxBounty. Not sure if any CPA companies are honest. I'm sure the advertisers are not. Noticed a pattern of when first promoting an offer, I'll get some commissions but it tapers off after awhile. It's like they cap my earnings.

Health Informer
ID Theft Prevention

DigiWeb Marketing

Yeah man don't let people take advantage of you. Call them out.. Especially if you have proof from your internal tracking that they are screwing you. Then, if they don't acknowledge their wrong doing or make it right, I would move on to another network. It's always smart to split test the same offer your running with multiple networks. I have discovered many times that I make more with 1 network compared to the other running the EXACT offer.

The proof's in the pudding.