POF CPM Question.

steve m · 01-22-2012, 04:24 PM

I have been getting my feet wet in POF and just had a question for any who use it.

I set up a campaign to test the platform on POF. Where the suggested bid said 40-80 as a suggestion. I thought maybe go higher to out bid other marketers.

I have been told to go higher for this reason as the traffic is much better and not been bombarded with banners all day long.

Is this true or or should I be dropping my CPM?

I have it set at well over 0.80 at the moment, just seems to go through the budget rather quick with the offer pay out that it gets.

Also is there a minimum that you would work to with your offer, the one I am using at the moment only gets 4.00 a sign up.

I have not long been at POF and trying to get to know the platform a bit better.

here is a quick look at the numbers in the last half hour.

$0.86 76,353 0.168% 10,715 18 2 $9.21

Seems to me that it would not be to bad if the clicks converted a little better.

I suppose i will just keep testing, testing and more testing.

But just wanted to know about the CPM whether to bid way high or low.

Thanks

Steve

outwest · 01-22-2012, 04:40 PM

.80 as in 80cents per 1000 impression?

ChrisBa · 01-22-2012, 08:24 PM

My understanding is the higher the bid the higher quality your audience will be - the higher bidder will be seen first and in prime locations. Hopefully pofben will chime in soon and share exactly how it works

Andrew Zapp · 01-23-2012, 02:01 AM

The main concept is that the higher your bid is, the quicker your ad is shown to the end user. Therefore if your bid is lower than your opponent, you would then have your ad shown after theirs which could lead to the quality of your traffic not being as good.

Although, this is not always the case.

When dealing with the rate of CPM it is good to note that not always does your CPM have to be higher to get a good ad placement.

For example:

You should be able to get much cheaper clicks per thousand views if the offer you are promoting has a more generalized user base. Such as, "Male, 25+, Overweight".

On the other hand...

If you’re targeting a more 'niche' based offer such as, “Male, overweight, non-smokers, that own a car and are aged from 40-45 years old”.

Then your ad is considered hyper targeted and usually has more competition.

It is much more useful for a publisher to raise their CPM with niche targeted ads as the end users would be more prone to seeing your ad first which could then lead to them clicking on it and converting.

I mostly tend to target broader niches and then find what’s working via the cross tab reports and then use that info to hyper target my ads and raise my CPM. The upside is more conversions and most likely you’re paying less for them.

A great bid in the US would usually be around $0.50 and for the UK $0.35. Most people, when starting out, forget that you don’t have to bid so high to get good ad placement. It’s unnecessary and you’ll be wasting your money.

Lastly, when testing your bids... Don’t raise the bids by a large amount. What I mean is, an opponents bid may be $0.23 and by you choosing $0.30 your wasting 6 cents per 1000 views. Therefore you should only raise the bid 1 or 2 cents at a time.

outwest · 01-23-2012, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Zapp

The main concept is that the higher your bid is, the quicker your ad is shown to the end user. Therefore if your bid is lower than your opponent, you would then have your ad shown after theirs which could lead to the quality of your traffic not being as good.

Although, this is not always the case.

When dealing with the rate of CPM it is good to note that not always does your CPM have to be higher to get a good ad placement.

For example:

You should be able to get much cheaper clicks per thousand views if the offer you are promoting has a more generalized user base. Such as, "Male, 25+, Overweight".

On the other hand...

If you’re targeting a more 'niche' based offer such as, “Male, overweight, non-smokers, that own a car and are aged from 40-45 years old”.

Then your ad is considered hyper targeted and usually has more competition.

It is much more useful for a publisher to raise their CPM with niche targeted ads as the end users would be more prone to seeing your ad first which could then lead to them clicking on it and converting.

I mostly tend to target broader niches and then find what’s working via the cross tab reports and then use that info to hyper target my ads and raise my CPM. The upside is more conversions and most likely you’re paying less for them.

A great bid in the US would usually be around $0.50 and for the UK $0.35. Most people, when starting out, forget that you don’t have to bid so high to get good ad placement. It’s unnecessary and you’ll be wasting your money.

Lastly, when testing your bids... Don’t raise the bids by a large amount. What I mean is, an opponents bid may be $0.23 and by you choosing $0.30 your wasting 6 cents per 1000 views. Therefore you should only raise the bid 1 or 2 cents at a time.

you are paying .50 CPM in the US, wow I didnt think traffic was that expensive for PPV

mikebelch · 01-23-2012, 04:00 AM

I stopped my advertising with POF. Though my site is in the same niche, I spend my money in vain the last two times. So, I am not going to work with them again.

hinadeane · 01-23-2012, 04:17 AM

Yeah seems loads of people afree PoF is a very powerful tool, but I guess you need to spend good time and money on it to find out how to make the most of it.

steve m · 01-23-2012, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outwest

.80 as in 80cents per 1000 impression?

Yes 0.86 CPM per 1000 imp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Zapp

The main concept is that the higher your bid is, the quicker your ad is shown to the end user. Therefore if your bid is lower than your opponent, you would then have your ad shown after theirs which could lead to the quality of your traffic not being as good.

Although, this is not always the case.

When dealing with the rate of CPM it is good to note that not always does your CPM have to be higher to get a good ad placement.

For example:

You should be able to get much cheaper clicks per thousand views if the offer you are promoting has a more generalized user base. Such as, "Male, 25+, Overweight".

On the other hand...

If you’re targeting a more 'niche' based offer such as, “Male, overweight, non-smokers, that own a car and are aged from 40-45 years old”.

Then your ad is considered hyper targeted and usually has more competition.

It is much more useful for a publisher to raise their CPM with niche targeted ads as the end users would be more prone to seeing your ad first which could then lead to them clicking on it and converting.

I mostly tend to target broader niches and then find what’s working via the cross tab reports and then use that info to hyper target my ads and raise my CPM. The upside is more conversions and most likely you’re paying less for them.

A great bid in the US would usually be around $0.50 and for the UK $0.35. Most people, when starting out, forget that you don’t have to bid so high to get good ad placement. It’s unnecessary and you’ll be wasting your money.

Lastly, when testing your bids... Don’t raise the bids by a large amount. What I mean is, an opponents bid may be $0.23 and by you choosing $0.30 your wasting 6 cents per 1000 views. Therefore you should only raise the bid 1 or 2 cents at a time.

Thanks for your post, I'll start a little lower then once I start another campaign. I'll then up the CPM for the more I target the traffic.

So for instance if I'm going to target a dating offer that is niche, I'll start more broad with lower bids.

say it was Christian mingle. I'll start at 0.50 CPM targeting men, women, all ages living in the states that are christian.

I'll set my budget at around $300 for the day and see what happens.

This way I should be able to gauge from the reports where most clicks and conversions are coming from.

I can then target the areas that are working best also.

I'll also use maybe 30/40 different banners and check the CTR of them and use the best performing ones.

I tend to only use banners as I seem to get a much better CTR then if I use small ads on there. I must not have a way with my words

Thanks again

Andrew Zapp · 01-24-2012, 01:59 AM

Great approach Steve. Target a broad range, then run cross tab reports to find where you should be targeting to get more clicks and conversions.

outwest · 01-24-2012, 02:04 AM

.80 CPM seems way high to me

williamrs · 01-24-2012, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Zapp

The main concept is that the higher your bid is, the quicker your ad is shown to the end user. Therefore if your bid is lower than your opponent, you would then have your ad shown after theirs which could lead to the quality of your traffic not being as good.

Although, this is not always the case.

When dealing with the rate of CPM it is good to note that not always does your CPM have to be higher to get a good ad placement.

For example:

You should be able to get much cheaper clicks per thousand views if the offer you are promoting has a more generalized user base. Such as, "Male, 25+, Overweight".

On the other hand...

If you’re targeting a more 'niche' based offer such as, “Male, overweight, non-smokers, that own a car and are aged from 40-45 years old”.

Then your ad is considered hyper targeted and usually has more competition.

It is much more useful for a publisher to raise their CPM with niche targeted ads as the end users would be more prone to seeing your ad first which could then lead to them clicking on it and converting.

I mostly tend to target broader niches and then find what’s working via the cross tab reports and then use that info to hyper target my ads and raise my CPM. The upside is more conversions and most likely you’re paying less for them.

A great bid in the US would usually be around $0.50 and for the UK $0.35. Most people, when starting out, forget that you don’t have to bid so high to get good ad placement. It’s unnecessary and you’ll be wasting your money.

Lastly, when testing your bids... Don’t raise the bids by a large amount. What I mean is, an opponents bid may be $0.23 and by you choosing $0.30 your wasting 6 cents per 1000 views. Therefore you should only raise the bid 1 or 2 cents at a time.

Very good advice here.

Start broader campaigns, collect data and then go specific targeting the demographics you know that convert well.

Also, don't forget that your bid isn't everything. The CTR is also very important and, actually, the higher your CTR the higher you can bid on PoF. So, don't bid too high while testing ads, because most will have a poor performance, wait until you find a few ads that have a good CTR and can make your eCPC lower.

W

steve m · 01-24-2012, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outwest

.80 CPM seems way high to me

Why does 0.80 CPM seem way to high? Suggested bid is 0.40/0.80 CPM Once I test at say maybe 0.50 and target down, I'll then increase my CPM bid.

I have read a few of your posts above, and think you are thinking we're talking about PPV.

This is not PPV traffic where your getting 1000 views for 0.01 cents

Steve

outwest · 01-24-2012, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve m

Why does 0.80 CPM seem way to high? Suggested bid is 0.40/0.80 CPM Once I test at say maybe 0.50 and target down, I'll then increase my CPM bid.

I have read a few of your posts above, and think you are thinking we're talking about PPV.

This is not PPV traffic where your getting 1000 views for 0.01 cents

Steve

You mean 1 cents I presume not .01cents

so basically .80 is $8 per 100,000 impressions right? or that is $80/100,000 impressions

Andrew Zapp · 01-26-2012, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve m

So for instance if I'm going to target a dating offer that is niche, I'll start more broad with lower bids.

say it was Christian mingle. I'll start at 0.50 CPM targeting men, women, all ages living in the states that are christian.

I'll set my budget at around $300 for the day and see what happens.

Yep, this is a great approach and you'll definitely see results. With those results and the info from the cross tab reports you'll easily know where to go next.

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamrs

Very good advice here.

Thanks! :-)

rocking11 · 01-26-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outwest

You mean 1 cents I presume not .01cents

so basically .80 is $8 per 100,000 impressions right? or that is $80/100,000 impressions

$80 for 100K impression....that was easy math.

that said, i'm still reading about cpa & haven't tried it. will try to go through coaching or report before diving in. I read in one of other thread that William provides coaching. do you have any slot open? I want to test offers soon, i have enough $ to spend & learn. any recommendation?

Rogbog · 01-26-2012, 11:27 AM

.80 CPM seems way high to me too! Should be around .20 to start and then you go down as your click through rate increases.

TomFang · 01-31-2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogbog

.80 CPM seems way high to me too! Should be around .20 to start and then you go down as your click through rate increases.

Most of the time you can't even bid below .20. That's the minimum if you use more than a couple targeting options. So I'm not sure what you're going "down" to. Bidding high to start isn't a bad idea at all. And while 0.80 is getting a bit too high for certain targeting, it's not actually that high if you're targeting niche. Targeting relatively higher early in your campaign will ensure you get high quality traffic so you can focus on finding your high CTR ads. Once you find those ads, you can work on your conversion funnel, and eventually you can optimize your CPM to the sweet spot to capture the most profit. It's all upside from that point on.

-Tom

jsmiz · 01-31-2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomFang

Most of the time you can't even bid below .20. That's the minimum if you use more than a couple targeting options. So I'm not sure what you're going "down" to. Bidding high to start isn't a bad idea at all. And while 0.80 is getting a bit too high for certain targeting, it's not actually that high if you're targeting niche. Targeting relatively higher early in your campaign will ensure you get high quality traffic so you can focus on finding your high CTR ads. Once you find those ads, you can work on your conversion funnel, and eventually you can optimize your CPM to the sweet spot to capture the most profit. It's all upside from that point on.

-Tom

Can biddig higher actually influence badly a new campaign? What if the right bid is around 0.40, and you bid 0.80...It won't give you the proper ctr's...therefore making bad decisions on which ads have good ctr's?

How do you find the right bid, specially on broader campaigns?

Andrew Zapp · 01-31-2012, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsmiz

Can biddig higher actually influence badly a new campaign? What if the right bid is around 0.40, and you bid 0.80...It won't give you the proper ctr's...therefore making bad decisions on which ads have good ctr's?

How do you find the right bid, specially on broader campaigns?

You would use the broader campaigns to test. Once done, you would then use that info to target and raise your bid. If you're targeting the US on a broad campaign, use $0.50 to $0.60. Leave it for 24 hours. Then run your reports to see what's working and target that and raise your bid.

If your already playing with your bid, change it and leave it for 24 hours. Then run your reports to see if your number of impressions has increased or decreased. You'll then know if your ad has been shown more or less which means your either bidding too low or it's perfect. The only way to figure it out is to test.

Check out the picture below to understand what I mean.

silverace · 01-31-2012, 11:22 PM

I see a lot of people here bidding 0.2, 0.6 etc.. When you go up 1 cent(so 0.21, 0.81) you'd outbid all those people by just 1 cent!

TomFang · 02-01-2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsmiz

Can biddig higher actually influence badly a new campaign? What if the right bid is around 0.40, and you bid 0.80...It won't give you the proper ctr's...therefore making bad decisions on which ads have good ctr's?

How do you find the right bid, specially on broader campaigns?

Well bidding higher can obviously have a negative impact on your campaign: it will cost you more. However, the effect on CTR should not be affected over significant amount of data.

Therefore, here's what I recommend. Bid relatively high to get the higher quality traffic in the beginning of your campaign while you are trying to find those high CTR ads. You are in a way controlling for everything else while you split test images and creatives. Once you've optimized your ads somewhat, you can begin to optimize other variables: targeting, CPM, other factors in your conversion funnel. At that point, you can try different CPM bids and find the rough bid that produces the highest ROI for your campaign overall. Profit is the only thing that matters at the end of the day, so go with w/e maximizes that.

Hope that helps!

-Tom

jsmiz · 02-01-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Zapp

You would use the broader campaigns to test. Once done, you would then use that info to target and raise your bid. If you're targeting the US on a broad campaign, use $0.50 to $0.60. Leave it for 24 hours. Then run your reports to see what's working and target that and raise your bid.

If your already playing with your bid, change it and leave it for 24 hours. Then run your reports to see if your number of impressions has increased or decreased. You'll then know if your ad has been shown more or less which means your either bidding too low or it's perfect. The only way to figure it out is to test.

Check out the picture below to understand what I mean.

So you let the campaign run for 24h without touching it?...Even if ctr's are very low or inexistent? Same for conversions?

I'm used to smaller niche campaigns where clicks tend to come faster and give a good feel of how a campaign will perform...On broad campaigns, its been bad starts pretty much everytime, so i just stop ads when they have no clicks after 2-3k impress. as they rarely get better later...Might be bad to do...lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomFang

Well bidding higher can obviously have a negative impact on your campaign: it will cost you more. However, the effect on CTR should not be affected over significant amount of data.

Therefore, here's what I recommend. Bid relatively high to get the higher quality traffic in the beginning of your campaign while you are trying to find those high CTR ads. You are in a way controlling for everything else while you split test images and creatives. Once you've optimized your ads somewhat, you can begin to optimize other variables: targeting, CPM, other factors in your conversion funnel. At that point, you can try different CPM bids and find the rough bid that produces the highest ROI for your campaign overall. Profit is the only thing that matters at the end of the day, so go with w/e maximizes that.

Hope that helps!

-Tom

What would you consider a significant amount of data on a roader campaign?

Thanks!

TomFang · 02-02-2012, 12:16 PM

At a minimum 15,000 impressions. Everyone has different gauges for that. Get your own experience and base it off that. I'm not a statistician and I've used significance hurdles from 15,000-50,000 on an ad to get to a place where I "trust" its long term performance.

-Tom

jsmiz · 02-02-2012, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomFang

At a minimum 15,000 impressions. Everyone has different gauges for that. Get your own experience and base it off that. I'm not a statistician and I've used significance hurdles from 15,000-50,000 on an ad to get to a place where I "trust" its long term performance.

-Tom

Ok. So if i run a broad campaign, ads might not get clicked once before 2-3k impressions but thats ok, i'd still let them run 'til 15k impressions?

TomFang · 02-03-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsmiz

Ok. So if i run a broad campaign, ads might not get clicked once before 2-3k impressions but thats ok, i'd still let them run 'til 15k impressions?

Nooo. If you're not getting a click at 2k imps cut your ads. Cut your ads based on CTR earlier on. And later, cut only based on ROI. Don't cut ads that are breakeven.

-Tom

01-22-2012, 04:24 PM	#1
steve m Promoter War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Uk Posts: 468 Thanks: 156 Thanked 44 Times in 43 Posts	POF CPM Question. I have been getting my feet wet in POF and just had a question for any who use it. I set up a campaign to test the platform on POF. Where the suggested bid said 40-80 as a suggestion. I thought maybe go higher to out bid other marketers. I have been told to go higher for this reason as the traffic is much better and not been bombarded with banners all day long. Is this true or or should I be dropping my CPM? I have it set at well over 0.80 at the moment, just seems to go through the budget rather quick with the offer pay out that it gets. Also is there a minimum that you would work to with your offer, the one I am using at the moment only gets 4.00 a sign up. I have not long been at POF and trying to get to know the platform a bit better. here is a quick look at the numbers in the last half hour. $0.86 76,353 0.168% 10,715 18 2 $9.21 Seems to me that it would not be to bad if the clicks converted a little better. I suppose i will just keep testing, testing and more testing. But just wanted to know about the CPM whether to bid way high or low. Thanks Steve
	ccleaner

01-22-2012, 04:40 PM	#2
outwest Lovin Life War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: USA and Asia Posts: 2,686 Thanks: 118 Thanked 180 Times in 161 Posts	Re: POF CPM Question. .80 as in 80cents per 1000 impression?

01-22-2012, 08:24 PM	#3
ChrisBa Senior Warrior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,130 Thanks: 10 Thanked 508 Times in 402 Posts Social Networking	Re: POF CPM Question. My understanding is the higher the bid the higher quality your audience will be - the higher bidder will be seen first and in prime locations. Hopefully pofben will chime in soon and share exactly how it works
	I'm Living MY DREAM Thanks to AFF PLAYBOOK! You Can Too! Or Jump on the IM GRIND!

01-23-2012, 02:01 AM	#4
Andrew Zapp HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts	Re: POF CPM Question. The main concept is that the higher your bid is, the quicker your ad is shown to the end user. Therefore if your bid is lower than your opponent, you would then have your ad shown after theirs which could lead to the quality of your traffic not being as good. Although, this is not always the case. When dealing with the rate of CPM it is good to note that not always does your CPM have to be higher to get a good ad placement. For example: You should be able to get much cheaper clicks per thousand views if the offer you are promoting has a more generalized user base. Such as, "Male, 25+, Overweight". On the other hand... If you’re targeting a more 'niche' based offer such as, “Male, overweight, non-smokers, that own a car and are aged from 40-45 years old”. Then your ad is considered hyper targeted and usually has more competition. It is much more useful for a publisher to raise their CPM with niche targeted ads as the end users would be more prone to seeing your ad first which could then lead to them clicking on it and converting. I mostly tend to target broader niches and then find what’s working via the cross tab reports and then use that info to hyper target my ads and raise my CPM. The upside is more conversions and most likely you’re paying less for them. A great bid in the US would usually be around $0.50 and for the UK $0.35. Most people, when starting out, forget that you don’t have to bid so high to get good ad placement. It’s unnecessary and you’ll be wasting your money. Lastly, when testing your bids... Don’t raise the bids by a large amount. What I mean is, an opponents bid may be $0.23 and by you choosing $0.30 your wasting 6 cents per 1000 views. Therefore you should only raise the bid 1 or 2 cents at a time.
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01-23-2012, 04:00 AM	#6
mikebelch Warrior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: POF CPM Question. I stopped my advertising with POF. Though my site is in the same niche, I spend my money in vain the last two times. So, I am not going to work with them again.

01-23-2012, 04:17 AM	#7
hinadeane Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 45 Thanks: 8 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Re: POF CPM Question. Yeah seems loads of people afree PoF is a very powerful tool, but I guess you need to spend good time and money on it to find out how to make the most of it.
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01-24-2012, 01:59 AM	#9
Andrew Zapp HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts	Re: POF CPM Question. Great approach Steve. Target a broad range, then run cross tab reports to find where you should be targeting to get more clicks and conversions.
	Follow My Blog! Want to learn about Media Buys? Are you willing to go that Extra Mile? Click Here if you're ready to take your online income to the next level.

01-24-2012, 02:04 AM	#10
outwest Lovin Life War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: USA and Asia Posts: 2,686 Thanks: 118 Thanked 180 Times in 161 Posts	Re: POF CPM Question. .80 CPM seems way high to me

01-26-2012, 11:27 AM	#16
Rogbog Active Warrior Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 84 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Re: POF CPM Question. .80 CPM seems way high to me too! Should be around .20 to start and then you go down as your click through rate increases.
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01-31-2012, 11:22 PM	#20
silverace The Flying Dutchman War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Holland Posts: 277 Thanks: 10 Thanked 38 Times in 30 Posts	Re: POF CPM Question. I see a lot of people here bidding 0.2, 0.6 etc.. When you go up 1 cent(so 0.21, 0.81) you'd outbid all those people by just 1 cent!
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02-02-2012, 12:16 PM	#23
TomFang Friend Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Chicago Posts: 164 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts Contact Info	Re: POF CPM Question. At a minimum 15,000 impressions. Everyone has different gauges for that. Get your own experience and base it off that. I'm not a statistician and I've used significance hurdles from 15,000-50,000 on an ad to get to a place where I "trust" its long term performance. -Tom
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