Why no so called Guru's in CPA?

Joe's Market · 03-25-2009, 12:21 PM

I was posed a very interesting question the other day. If CPA is so profitable and a millionaire maker why aren't any of the so called Guru's in it and seem to spend all their on internet marketing?

Is it because they are constantly trying to sell products to new people and IM is the most lucrative market for this?

Is it they know that 90% of CPA is PPC and that new people can't afford PPC?

Or are they in CPA behind the scenes and don't want most people to know this?

Just wanted to get your thoughts on this and I had never thought about it before until I was asked the question.

Thanks and best to all,

Joe

honestbizpro · 03-25-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe's Market

I was posed a very interesting question the other day. If CPA is so profitable and a millionaire maker why aren't any of the so called Guru's in it and seem to spend all their on internet marketing?

Is it because they are constantly trying to sell products to new people and IM is the most lucrative market for this?

Is it they know that 90% of CPA is PPC and that new people can't afford PPC?

Or are they in CPA behind the scenes and don't want most people to know this?

Just wanted to get your thoughts on this and I had never thought about it before until I was asked the question.

Thanks and best to all,

Joe

Hey Joe,

I learned along time ago that as much as marketers try to group people together they will still belong to several different other groups.

A person who is an electronics consumer may also be a home business owner, pet owner, football fan, use a hair stylist, be in the market for a new car, house, jewelry, hundreds of other markets.

That is why are marketing should be just as diversified.

It is kind of a natural cycle in Marketing.

If I made $100,000 in 3 months selling oven mits from my basement. That actually becomes a product in itself! Some one would be glad to pay me to learn how I did it.

So sometimes we can make our money in one niche/service/business but we may still get pulled to the Internet Marketing niche by default.

Hope that makes a little sense.

John Piteo · 03-25-2009, 01:27 PM

Hey Joe,
I think you don't see a lot of gurus teaching CPA marketing because those who do it successfully are making plenty of money and don't bother with teaching.

On the other hand there is Gauher Chaudhry? He's highly successful and he teaches. He came out with a course called Pay Per Click Formula in 1997. That course helped quite a few people quit their day jobs and also helped create several CPA marketing millionaires.

Correction: Ooops, I meant to say 2007 not 1997.

JunChic · 03-25-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Piteo

He came out with a course called Pay Per Click Formula in 1997.

John, was it a typo error 1997? Or 2007?

Since we are on the subject of Chaudhry's PPC Formula, did you buy his version 1 course. Any success story or experience you (or anyone) might want to share? Strike this sentence out, just read your review!

I'm also curious just how much his new course would be? Any idea, anyone?

Harvey Affcash · 03-25-2009, 08:12 PM

Sorry, but did you miss the entire Aymen and "Arbitrage Conspiracy" thing??

Right there! Whooooole heap of gurus going on about how awesome this all was going to be.

I'd say the real reason the "gurus" aren't crowding the sapce is because a) you actually need to be able to teach people skills that they don't innately have already, and most of the gurus are actually really woeful as educators b) It's a lot harder to deliver on a product that shows people how to work in an environment that undergoes seismic shifts in a matter of days, whilst remaining fairly constant the rest of the time c) Most "gurus" are actually snakeoil salesmen that are just using PLR stuff that's a decade old and doesn't actually work anymore, and their money comes from selling the seminars and junk products, not from their online marketing.

Robert_Rand · 03-25-2009, 09:49 PM

Here's my answer... and although I'm gonna stereotype a little I think it's pretty accurate.

See, most Guru's are inherently very charismatic people. They have magnetic personalities and are very good salespeople. They like being around and communicating with people. They also usually like attention. Most of them however do not understand internet marketing from a technical standpoint at this level. That's why when a lot of them Gurus endorsed AC I don't think they were trying to or knowingly misleading anyone - they simply aren't involved in CPA and the information probably was new and exciting to them...

Now, the real players in the CPA game are often the exact opposite. They're often low key, even secretive. They're usually pretty young, very technically inclined and often grew up with a computer in their bedroom. I'm talking about 15-30 year old nerds. These are the real powerhouses in the CPA game. If you see them you'd likely be in complete denial that they make $3k-100k per day. Often times they're completely uninvolved in the "internet marketing" niche and couldn't name one "guru" if you asked them. They just continuously and obsessively test, tweak... and drive insane amounts of traffic to mainstream offers.

Now, to anyone reading this... there are of course plenty of exceptions so it is a little unfair to stereotype and paint a black and white comparison... but personally, this has definitely been my experience.

And you know what else? Many won't enter the IM niche b/c it's too targeted in the BizOPP niche and simply not big enough for them. They'll often only enter niches where they can realistically do 5k+/day consistently everyday (for example mainstream bizopp and weight loss)

honestbizpro · 03-25-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Rand

Here's my answer... and although I'm gonna stereotype a little I think it's pretty accurate.

See, most Guru's are inherently very charismatic people. They have magnetic personalities and are very good salespeople. They like being around and communicating with people. They also usually like attention. Most of them however do not understand internet marketing from a technical standpoint at this level. That's why when a lot of them Gurus endorsed AC I don't think they were trying to or knowingly misleading anyone - they simply aren't involved in CPA and the information probably was new and exciting to them...

Now, the real players in the CPA game are often the exact opposite. They're often low key, even secretive. They're usually pretty young, very technically inclined and often grew up with a computer in their bedroom. I'm talking about 15-30 year old nerds. These are the real powerhouses in the CPA game. If you see them you'd likely be in complete denial that they make $3k-100k per day. Often times they're completely uninvolved in the "internet marketing" niche and couldn't name one "guru" if you asked them. They just continuously and obsessively test, tweak... and drive insane amounts of traffic to mainstream offers.

Now, to anyone reading this... there are of course plenty of exceptions so it is a little unfair to stereotype and paint a black and white comparison... but personally, this has definitely been my experience.

And you know what else? Many won't enter the IM niche b/c it's too targeted in the BizOPP niche and simply not big enough for them. They'll often only enter niches where they can realistically do 5k+/day consistently everyday (for example mainstream bizopp and weight loss)

Well said.

Merlingeek · 03-25-2009, 10:49 PM

About CPA players I just can't agree more with you, I knew several guys making banks but very small amount people know them in IM .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Rand

Here's my answer... and although I'm gonna stereotype a little I think it's pretty accurate.

See, most Guru's are inherently very charismatic people. They have magnetic personalities and are very good salespeople. They like being around and communicating with people. They also usually like attention. Most of them however do not understand internet marketing from a technical standpoint at this level. That's why when a lot of them Gurus endorsed AC I don't think they were trying to or knowingly misleading anyone - they simply aren't involved in CPA and the information probably was new and exciting to them...

Now, the real players in the CPA game are often the exact opposite. They're often low key, even secretive. They're usually pretty young, very technically inclined and often grew up with a computer in their bedroom. I'm talking about 15-30 year old nerds. These are the real powerhouses in the CPA game. If you see them you'd likely be in complete denial that they make $3k-100k per day. Often times they're completely uninvolved in the "internet marketing" niche and couldn't name one "guru" if you asked them. They just continuously and obsessively test, tweak... and drive insane amounts of traffic to mainstream offers.

Now, to anyone reading this... there are of course plenty of exceptions so it is a little unfair to stereotype and paint a black and white comparison... but personally, this has definitely been my experience.

And you know what else? Many won't enter the IM niche b/c it's too targeted in the BizOPP niche and simply not big enough for them. They'll often only enter niches where they can realistically do 5k+/day consistently everyday (for example mainstream bizopp and weight loss)

Joe's Market · 03-26-2009, 08:24 AM

Hey Robert,

very well thought out and well said. I would have to agree with all you said and will you your ideas in the future if asked again, if you don't mind.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Joe

Chris R Motive · 03-26-2009, 11:58 AM

The thing about "Guru's" is that they are posers that are trying to rip you off. Anyone making a great deal of money in any niche is stupid to "sell their secrets". 100% of the time what they are selling you is BS. My suggestion is to stop buying ebooks and "guru secrets" and just start testing for yourself, find a method that works for you, make bank off of it and dont tell anyone what you are doing.

xanax · 03-26-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris R Motive

The thing about "Guru's" is that they are posers that are trying to rip you off. Anyone making a great deal of money in any niche is stupid to "sell their secrets". 100% of the time what they are selling you is BS. My suggestion is to stop buying ebooks and "guru secrets" and just start testing for yourself, find a method that works for you, make bank off of it and dont tell anyone what you are doing.

good post man you are on the money with this , if they make 1000's per day or whatever.... why sell secrets for $20 or whatever

TE2 · 03-26-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Rand

Here's my answer... and although I'm gonna stereotype a little I think it's pretty accurate.

See, most Guru's are inherently very charismatic people. They have magnetic personalities and are very good salespeople. They like being around and communicating with people. They also usually like attention. Most of them however do not understand internet marketing from a technical standpoint at this level. That's why when a lot of them Gurus endorsed AC I don't think they were trying to or knowingly misleading anyone - they simply aren't involved in CPA and the information probably was new and exciting to them...

Now, the real players in the CPA game are often the exact opposite. They're often low key, even secretive. They're usually pretty young, very technically inclined and often grew up with a computer in their bedroom. I'm talking about 15-30 year old nerds. These are the real powerhouses in the CPA game. If you see them you'd likely be in complete denial that they make $3k-100k per day. Often times they're completely uninvolved in the "internet marketing" niche and couldn't name one "guru" if you asked them. They just continuously and obsessively test, tweak... and drive insane amounts of traffic to mainstream offers.

Now, to anyone reading this... there are of course plenty of exceptions so it is a little unfair to stereotype and paint a black and white comparison... but personally, this has definitely been my experience.

And you know what else? Many won't enter the IM niche b/c it's too targeted in the BizOPP niche and simply not big enough for them. They'll often only enter niches where they can realistically do 5k+/day consistently everyday (for example mainstream bizopp and weight loss)

BINGO! - We have a winner!

TE2 · 03-26-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris R Motive

The thing about "Guru's" is that they are posers that are trying to rip you off. Anyone making a great deal of money in any niche is stupid to "sell their secrets". 100% of the time what they are selling you is BS. My suggestion is to stop buying ebooks and "guru secrets" and just start testing for yourself, find a method that works for you, make bank off of it and dont tell anyone what you are doing.

BINGO! again - We have another winner.

Kyle L Hannah · 03-26-2009, 12:35 PM

Some may agree with not telling others what's working, but maybe some truly want to help people out.

I've grown a lot successfully by helping out my fellow man/woman. So if I have something that works, I would be inclined to sell it or share it with others off the
simple fact that I believe the more you give the more you get.

Chris R Motive · 03-26-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle L Hannah

Some may agree with not telling others what's working, but maybe some truly want to help people out.

I've grown a lot successfully by helping out my fellow man/woman. So if I have something that works, I would be inclined to sell it or share it with others off the
simple fact that I believe the more you give the more you get.

I am not going to argue with you here but a successful marketer, someone who is doing AM fulltime does not want their niche saturated, its not about not helping people its about not giving people your livelihood.

honestbizpro · 03-26-2009, 01:02 PM

I guess it is easy to bash the word "Guru" but to say that anyone successful is full of it if they share it? In that case we may as well shut this forum down.

I do not even have enough room to list all the Successful Marketers that have influenced me in a positive way and some still doing so time and time again.

SimonHarrison · 03-26-2009, 01:14 PM

Sort of a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water, suggesting all "gurus" are fakes/useless etc.

I would put it like this....

* A huge number of IM gurus are pretty much only good at selling IM products so won't tackle CPA
* A lot of the people really making money with CPA are keeping dead quiet, they are "underground guru's" in their own right but keep under the radar whilst counting keeping their systems/niches to themselves and counting daily revenues in excess of $10k per day with ease.

However, there are plenty of guys out there, some well known , Trainer, Gauher etc who are teaching people how to monetize CPA pretty well. There are also a number of guys out there, IM guru types quietly making a killing with CPA by merging it with their current systems, Frank Kern, Trey etc ARE doing CPA in various ways on the quiet.

I've also noticed of late that some of the guys are taking their IM courses to the networks, one is currently paying out $55 per sale with a continuity aspect.

Let's face it, CPA whitehat isn't rocket science, you don't need a guru to teach you how to do any of it, the only vital factor is traffic, and that'#s not IMO "CPA" and plenty of gurus can and do teach you how to do that.

Ryan_Taylor · 03-26-2009, 05:25 PM

The reason, I believe, is because IM is all about relationships, JV opportunities and list building. Teaching in IM produces a sales force.

CPA is secretive in nature. Marketers here don't share their sales pages, their PPC keywords, and there's not as much opportunity to JV and less focus on list building.

George Sepich · 03-26-2009, 05:39 PM

There are a lot of gurus involved in CPA. But they are higher up the food chain. They are actually promoting their offers through CPA and many are also involved in ownership/joint ventures with the CPA networks themselves.

George

Doug English · 03-26-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Sepich

There are a lot of gurus involved in CPA. But they are higher up the food chain.
George

Thats the answer right there.

The 'real' experts are making too much money with this stuff to be concerned with being 'gurus'. While it definitely does happen on occasion, its not very common for people to make more from selling their methods for CPA profits than they can make by doing it themselves.

The 'im2im' gurus that you hear of and think are 'famous' are primarily making money from selling shovels, or more recently, from selling the materials to actually make the shovels.

The 'real' experts in CPA are people you've never heard of, and never will. (for good reason)

I've had many many many conversations with my AM at my favorite CPA network, and trust me, none of their 'real' super-affiliates hang out at the WF, let alone even know what it is.

The same thing would apply to any money making niche online. The 'real' SEO experts do NOT claim themselves to be SEO gurus and sell seo systems and guides...they use their knowledge to make an absolute fortune...silent and unknown.

JunChic · 03-26-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Sepich

There are a lot of gurus involved in CPA. But they are higher up the food chain. They are actually promoting their offers through CPA and many are also involved in ownership/joint ventures with the CPA networks themselves.

This I second!

Once they "mastered" the in-and-out of a CPA network and with a little money they play the middleman.

Kyle L Hannah · 03-27-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris R Motive

I am not going to argue with you here but a successful marketer, someone who is doing AM fulltime does not want their niche saturated, its not about not helping people its about not giving people your livelihood.

See and I disagree ... You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I do AM full-time yes.

syncjam · 03-28-2009, 03:11 PM

As a newbie, it seems the best info I get is free from "gurus" just wanting to help!

syncjam · 03-28-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlogBrowser

There is no such a thing as "free help". Whoever says that they share their "secrets" just to help people are full of it. Chances are they're not making as much as they claim. You know what they say: those who can, play - those who can't, teach. And this statement is 100% true.

Free yes, but along with the help comes affiliate links. I can decide if I really want to click that link or not.

As a CPA newbie, any help I can get is appreciated.

JunChic · 03-29-2009, 12:32 AM

Two sentences to sum up on the word "free" coaching/report.

There is no free lunches.
There will always be agendas (aka affiliate links).

Having said, I have no problem buying from their affiliate links so long they provide good quality coaching or report and aren't afraid to admit they had embedded those affiliate links.

Just a little token for their time taken.

KentuckyJeff · 03-29-2009, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris R Motive

The thing about "Guru's" is that they are posers that are trying to rip you off. Anyone making a great deal of money in any niche is stupid to "sell their secrets". 100% of the time what they are selling you is BS. My suggestion is to stop buying ebooks and "guru secrets" and just start testing for yourself, find a method that works for you, make bank off of it and dont tell anyone what you are doing.

Well put indeed. Although there are exceptions (I guess), I was very reluctant when I started in AM over a year ago. I was almost excited when I started seeing all the 'FREE' ebooks at first. But...if it seems too good to be true...

I've found that most everything 'FREE', and even some of the very few products that I've purchased, are just affiliate links, upsells and recycled BS.

Well, maybe not recycled, just the same BS.

What I have spent any decent amount of money on that was AM related was software which had a good reputation, and I at least knew what I was buying.

I just can't imagine what are in the courses/methods/cash generating machines that so many people are chomping at the bit to drop $2,000 or more on.

I'm just a dumb Hill-Billy though. Maybe I need a $5,000 Google Autopilot Cash Generating Stealth Ninja Job Killer Formula 2 Info Spy System.

(If anyone wants to use that title maybe we can do a JV ?)

nzdealer · 03-29-2009, 12:14 PM

I can tell you something. You do not need to buy course out there as such. Most of the information is free on the internet all you have to do is such for it. Blogs and forums usually have the best information if you search around.

honestbizpro · 03-29-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nzdealer

I can tell you something. You do not need to buy course out there as such. Most of the information is free on the internet all you have to do is such for it. Blogs and forums usually have the best information if you search around.

I agree, to this day I try to save money whenever I can.

But a good investment will not only save you time...it will save you money!

ShabirAli · 03-29-2009, 04:31 PM

Its all about cpc mate, i think everyone can afford 300 - 500$ to make some extra money.its like a business and much people can afford ppc costs. because you are making money from it.

sshirdi · 03-31-2009, 12:10 AM

I think, CPA market is not stable and there is no guarantee to get paid. I have tried many CPA programs to earn extra and my account gets banned for nothing. Some CPA program paid me more than $2000 but they were accepting more investment from me to promote their campaigns and i had done same and when i generated $5000 they simply banned me. So, i can't trust CPA market anymore and i am again going with Clickbank.

Thanks,

LeivaMatias · 03-31-2009, 11:21 AM

Its very unrealistic to get banned from a network. The only reason you were banned is because something must have been incorrect in your traffic source, the leads did not pop out on the backend.

If you are generated quality numbers with cpa networks, you will have consistency.

CPA stability is built through having various campaigns, not just 1. Most of the top cpa marketers are in every niche possible, and have spread themselves across all types of traffic sources.

In the business world or in marketing, there is no guarantee of making money. Every business owner is always actively moving their business, even in MLM the big guys making a few million a year, they have to keep actively moving their business or their residual/sales volume will decrease quickly.

honestbizpro · 03-31-2009, 04:33 PM

You would be surprised what a Guru is into. Sometimes opportunities fall into their laps and they see the potential and jump on it.

Mike Filsaime got started with safelists and even MLM he does not teach it, but he sure did it. I think that is more realistic of what is really happening in the online world.

There is our brand and there is our methods.

tx4closurepro · 04-04-2009, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Rand

Here's my answer... and although I'm gonna stereotype a little I think it's pretty accurate.

See, most Guru's are inherently very charismatic people. They have magnetic personalities and are very good salespeople. They like being around and communicating with people. They also usually like attention. Most of them however do not understand internet marketing from a technical standpoint at this level. That's why when a lot of them Gurus endorsed AC I don't think they were trying to or knowingly misleading anyone - they simply aren't involved in CPA and the information probably was new and exciting to them...

Now, the real players in the CPA game are often the exact opposite. They're often low key, even secretive. They're usually pretty young, very technically inclined and often grew up with a computer in their bedroom. I'm talking about 15-30 year old nerds. These are the real powerhouses in the CPA game. If you see them you'd likely be in complete denial that they make $3k-100k per day. Often times they're completely uninvolved in the "internet marketing" niche and couldn't name one "guru" if you asked them. They just continuously and obsessively test, tweak... and drive insane amounts of traffic to mainstream offers.

Now, to anyone reading this... there are of course plenty of exceptions so it is a little unfair to stereotype and paint a black and white comparison... but personally, this has definitely been my experience.

And you know what else? Many won't enter the IM niche b/c it's too targeted in the BizOPP niche and simply not big enough for them. They'll often only enter niches where they can realistically do 5k+/day consistently everyday (for example mainstream bizopp and weight loss)

mannn.... i had begun making the same assumptions and once i read your post it instantly clicked for me; in fact, i am now thinking i am not detailed enough for CPA...

(not sure if that's good or bad... time will tell)

CompleteOnlineMarketer · 04-04-2009, 11:16 AM

here's a thought...

Are the CPA affiliate managers making the same kind of $ as their successfully secretive CPA clients..?

honestbizpro · 04-04-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CompleteOnlineMarketer

here's a thought...

Are the CPA affiliate managers making the same kind of $ as their successfully secretive CPA clients..?

Let's say you are a marketer and you can see MULTIPLE SUPER AFFILIATES checks and payout and how they are earning it...Yes I think that Aff. Mgr would be making a nice check to be armed with that info.

Not only with any campaigns they decide to do themselves but they get a % of all those Super Affiliates as well. Nice.

CompleteOnlineMarketer · 04-04-2009, 02:25 PM

THAT's the job I want!

merigot123 · 04-05-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Rand

Here's my answer... and although I'm gonna stereotype a little I think it's pretty accurate.

See, most Guru's are inherently very charismatic people. They have magnetic personalities and are very good salespeople. They like being around and communicating with people. They also usually like attention. Most of them however do not understand internet marketing from a technical standpoint at this level. That's why when a lot of them Gurus endorsed AC I don't think they were trying to or knowingly misleading anyone - they simply aren't involved in CPA and the information probably was new and exciting to them...

Now, the real players in the CPA game are often the exact opposite. They're often low key, even secretive. They're usually pretty young, very technically inclined and often grew up with a computer in their bedroom. I'm talking about 15-30 year old nerds. These are the real powerhouses in the CPA game. If you see them you'd likely be in complete denial that they make $3k-100k per day. Often times they're completely uninvolved in the "internet marketing" niche and couldn't name one "guru" if you asked them. They just continuously and obsessively test, tweak... and drive insane amounts of traffic to mainstream offers.

Now, to anyone reading this... there are of course plenty of exceptions so it is a little unfair to stereotype and paint a black and white comparison... but personally, this has definitely been my experience.

And you know what else? Many won't enter the IM niche b/c it's too targeted in the BizOPP niche and simply not big enough for them. They'll often only enter niches where they can realistically do 5k+/day consistently everyday (for example mainstream bizopp and weight loss)

It could not be well worded than this. I even happen to have my personal CPA coach in this industry who is only 21. This kid could have been my son, here I am learning from him. He lives, breathes CPA marketing nothing else. Of course they bank in $1000's a day that is a new passion for them. Doesn't any better but to be focused. Now he has a new purpose, a new hobby instead of playing video games in his bedroom. Chances are he will be Millionaire by 30. <><>Excellent Post<><>.

honestbizpro · 04-05-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merigot123

It could not be well worded than this. I even happen to have my personal CPA coach in this industry who is only 21. This kid could have been my son, here I am learning from him. He lives, breathes CPA marketing nothing else. Of course they bank in $1000's a day that is a new passion for them. Doesn't any better but to be focused. Now he has a new purpose, a new hobby instead of playing video games in his bedroom. Chances are he will be Millionaire by 30. <><>Excellent Post<><>.

I agree merigot123,

There are many guys/gals making silent fortunes with CPA, but also some wannabe "Coaches" are popping up asking for large amounts of money with no reputation.....that get's tricky.

Still piles of cash to be made with CPA that's for sure.

Aaron Chandler · 04-07-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Rand

Here's my answer... and although I'm gonna stereotype a little I think it's pretty accurate....

I'll second honestbizpro's response - Well said!

And I agree - there ARE exceptions - from what I've read about Gauher, he seems like one of them.

- Aaron

gabibeowulf · 04-07-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris R Motive

The thing about "Guru's" is that they are posers that are trying to rip you off. Anyone making a great deal of money in any niche is stupid to "sell their secrets". 100% of the time what they are selling you is BS. My suggestion is to stop buying ebooks and "guru secrets" and just start testing for yourself, find a method that works for you, make bank off of it and dont tell anyone what you are doing.

I would have to disagree ... Guru's are usually excellent marketers .. otherwise no one will ever hear from them.

Do guru's do CPA ? .. Some of them do, a lot of them are on the advertiser side. And even if they don't do CPA I am sure they have done affiliate marketing at some point.

They cross promote each other and that still would count as affiliate marketers.

Surely some of them just make crappy products just for the sake of it, but some of them give you small portions of "meat" along the lines. Some, more than others

The main point here is .. you can't be a poser and be a successful guru in the same time

Does that mean that you can replicate his success by buying his stuff ? Most probably not .. unless it's a very expensive 1 on 1 coaching ..

dmail333 · 04-07-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArthurRose

Who says they aren't? Just because they don't tell you, doesn't meant they don't do it! Don't worry, the "gurus" will start teaching you CPA methods when they stop working for themselves.

This is so true.. Frank Kern taught a CPA tactic when he launched "Mass Control" So they some are doing it.

Kyle L Hannah · 04-07-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honestbizpro

Let's say you are a marketer and you can see MULTIPLE SUPER AFFILIATES checks and payout and how they are earning it...Yes I think that Aff. Mgr would be making a nice check to be armed with that info.

Not only with any campaigns they decide to do themselves but they get a % of all those Super Affiliates as well. Nice.

That's actually not the case. Most AM's aren't like us in the entrepreneur sense, they are 9-5ers. You'd be quite surprised to learn they are NOT making anywhere near the amount a true super affiliate is, but rather the typical 3-5k/month a normal working person does, and some networks don't pay AM's any type of commissions either.

honestbizpro · 04-07-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle L Hannah

That's actually not the case. Most AM's aren't like us in the entrepreneur sense, they are 9-5ers. You'd be quite surprised to learn they are NOT making anywhere near the amount a true super affiliate is, but rather the typical 3-5k/month a normal working person does, and some networks don't pay AM's any type of commissions either.

Hi Kyle,

I may start to ask a couple that I speak to frequently.

If I am seeing payouts with 3 more zeros than my check has on it I know it would wake me up! I guess you are right we are all made different.

And about the commissions..I don't know, but they sure do seem to want to keep me pumped up and promoting for some good reason.

dmail333 · 04-07-2009, 11:08 PM

I gotta ad this. Its normal to pay to play, all businesses cost money to run. Most people have to pay… to do something. Most still will not do anything. I was in a biz opp making multi-6 figure income. 13 of us met in Omaha... many of us had tried to help and give away the program and offer FREE HELP, TO DO IT FOR THEM IN MY CASE. I told one of my employees to help them along with me. ALL of these people didn't even do hardly anything and got lost or made ridiculous excuses. And we were chasing them down

All the other guys had similar stories. I really, really wanted to help these people. All the people did good and made 4 and five figures a month, even less made me feel great. Find some of the guys on the forum who want to give back, and get pleasure form helping you. And DO EXACTLY as they teach you. You don’t need a guru, you’ve got warriors.

sajae102 · 04-08-2009, 04:48 PM

I guess many people look at the typical CPA guru as nothing more than a regular internet marketer. I don't think they should be classified in their own league.

big-marketing · 09-12-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Rand

Now, the real players in the CPA game are often the exact opposite. They're often low key, even secretive. They're usually pretty young, very technically inclined and often grew up with a computer in their bedroom. I'm talking about 15-30 year old nerds. These are the real powerhouses in the CPA game. If you see them you'd likely be in complete denial that they make $3k-100k per day. Often times they're completely uninvolved in the "internet marketing" niche and couldn't name one "guru" if you asked them. They just continuously and obsessively test, tweak... and drive insane amounts of traffic to mainstream offers.

fwiw, the funny thing is you just described aymen perfectly except he's on the high end and the actual big dogs in cpa do even more than that. Ever wonder why brad fallon was the face of the original launch and you don't see pictures and videos out the ying yang of aymen anywhere?

big jason

dandimit · 09-13-2009, 01:36 AM

I think thee best way to use CPA networks is to lose a little bit on the front end, then put those buyer leads onto an expensive phone sales floor and grab yourself a small percentage.
That's what Daniel Pereira and I do with CPA.

Kenneth L · 09-13-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Rand

Here's my answer... and although I'm gonna stereotype a little I think it's pretty accurate.

See, most Guru's are inherently very charismatic people. They have magnetic personalities and are very good salespeople. They like being around and communicating with people. They also usually like attention. Most of them however do not understand internet marketing from a technical standpoint at this level. That's why when a lot of them Gurus endorsed AC I don't think they were trying to or knowingly misleading anyone - they simply aren't involved in CPA and the information probably was new and exciting to them...

Now, the real players in the CPA game are often the exact opposite. They're often low key, even secretive. They're usually pretty young, very technically inclined and often grew up with a computer in their bedroom. I'm talking about 15-30 year old nerds. These are the real powerhouses in the CPA game. If you see them you'd likely be in complete denial that they make $3k-100k per day. Often times they're completely uninvolved in the "internet marketing" niche and couldn't name one "guru" if you asked them. They just continuously and obsessively test, tweak... and drive insane amounts of traffic to mainstream offers.

Now, to anyone reading this... there are of course plenty of exceptions so it is a little unfair to stereotype and paint a black and white comparison... but personally, this has definitely been my experience.

And you know what else? Many won't enter the IM niche b/c it's too targeted in the BizOPP niche and simply not big enough for them. They'll often only enter niches where they can realistically do 5k+/day consistently everyday (for example mainstream bizopp and weight loss)

This is one of the most insightful, well-explained and concise posts I've ever read on the WF in my 3 years here.

Thanks!

Kenneth

Zellach · 09-14-2009, 04:13 AM

The hardest thing with ppc marketing is that the whole industry is very unstable. The technical side of it is fairly straightforward--Sign up with affiliate network networks, set up tracking, write ads, create landing pages, and split test the ads/landing pages/offers until you come up with a profitable campaign. Once you find a system that that is profitable you buy more traffic. You can read up on the technical side online, but if a "guru" releases his exact method others would immediately start bidding on his/her keywords and using his ads and landing pages. That would make the campaign unprofitable immediately.

Greg Jacobs · 09-14-2009, 10:34 AM

I can maybe give you guys a little perspective. I have been doing CPA and other things for a little over 2 years. I do quite well and definitely don't need a day job anymore.

but to put it in perspective, I didnt even know that WF existed until May of this year, by which point I was already set.

I earned my dough the hard way. Self taught with a credit card. Never took a course or paid for tools. Eventually things started working and expanding from there.

But I understand why some will cross over to be a 'guru'
The fact is that CPA marketing and related is like educated gambling. You need to be on it 24/7 and you win and you lose.

Right now I am making a transition, hopefully to share the knowledge I have learned and if I can make even close to what I was doing with CPA, by helping others on the path, then I will be content.

The fact of the matter is that its a dirty job up there in dem' hills diggin up the gold. Better to sell the shovels and the maps and enjoy some fresh air. .

03-25-2009, 12:21 PM	#1
Joe's Market Active Warrior Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 35 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Why no so called Guru's in CPA? I was posed a very interesting question the other day. If CPA is so profitable and a millionaire maker why aren't any of the so called Guru's in it and seem to spend all their on internet marketing? Is it because they are constantly trying to sell products to new people and IM is the most lucrative market for this? Is it they know that 90% of CPA is PPC and that new people can't afford PPC? Or are they in CPA behind the scenes and don't want most people to know this? Just wanted to get your thoughts on this and I had never thought about it before until I was asked the question. Thanks and best to all, Joe

03-25-2009, 01:27 PM	#3
John Piteo Getting into Video! War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 349 Thanks: 68 Thanked 48 Times in 31 Posts Social Networking	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? Hey Joe, I think you don't see a lot of gurus teaching CPA marketing because those who do it successfully are making plenty of money and don't bother with teaching. On the other hand there is Gauher Chaudhry? He's highly successful and he teaches. He came out with a course called Pay Per Click Formula in 1997. That course helped quite a few people quit their day jobs and also helped create several CPA marketing millionaires. Correction: Ooops, I meant to say 2007 not 1997.
	*WordPress Crash Course* Build Your First WordPress Blog or Website by 5:00 Today!

03-25-2009, 08:12 PM	#5
Harvey Affcash Active Warrior Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 67 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? Sorry, but did you miss the entire Aymen and "Arbitrage Conspiracy" thing?? Right there! Whooooole heap of gurus going on about how awesome this all was going to be. I'd say the real reason the "gurus" aren't crowding the sapce is because a) you actually need to be able to teach people skills that they don't innately have already, and most of the gurus are actually really woeful as educators b) It's a lot harder to deliver on a product that shows people how to work in an environment that undergoes seismic shifts in a matter of days, whilst remaining fairly constant the rest of the time c) Most "gurus" are actually snakeoil salesmen that are just using PLR stuff that's a decade old and doesn't actually work anymore, and their money comes from selling the seminars and junk products, not from their online marketing.
	Affiliation Cash - Reliable CPA payouts for over 4 years

03-25-2009, 09:49 PM	#6
Robert_Rand HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 160 Thanks: 27 Thanked 21 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? Here's my answer... and although I'm gonna stereotype a little I think it's pretty accurate. See, most Guru's are inherently very charismatic people. They have magnetic personalities and are very good salespeople. They like being around and communicating with people. They also usually like attention. Most of them however do not understand internet marketing from a technical standpoint at this level. That's why when a lot of them Gurus endorsed AC I don't think they were trying to or knowingly misleading anyone - they simply aren't involved in CPA and the information probably was new and exciting to them... Now, the real players in the CPA game are often the exact opposite. They're often low key, even secretive. They're usually pretty young, very technically inclined and often grew up with a computer in their bedroom. I'm talking about 15-30 year old nerds. These are the real powerhouses in the CPA game. If you see them you'd likely be in complete denial that they make $3k-100k per day. Often times they're completely uninvolved in the "internet marketing" niche and couldn't name one "guru" if you asked them. They just continuously and obsessively test, tweak... and drive insane amounts of traffic to mainstream offers. Now, to anyone reading this... there are of course plenty of exceptions so it is a little unfair to stereotype and paint a black and white comparison... but personally, this has definitely been my experience. And you know what else? Many won't enter the IM niche b/c it's too targeted in the BizOPP niche and simply not big enough for them. They'll often only enter niches where they can realistically do 5k+/day consistently everyday (for example mainstream bizopp and weight loss)

03-26-2009, 08:24 AM	#9
Joe's Market Active Warrior Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 35 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? Hey Robert, very well thought out and well said. I would have to agree with all you said and will you your ideas in the future if asked again, if you don't mind. Thanks to everyone who replied. Joe

03-26-2009, 11:58 AM	#10
Chris R Motive Warrior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? The thing about "Guru's" is that they are posers that are trying to rip you off. Anyone making a great deal of money in any niche is stupid to "sell their secrets". 100% of the time what they are selling you is BS. My suggestion is to stop buying ebooks and "guru secrets" and just start testing for yourself, find a method that works for you, make bank off of it and dont tell anyone what you are doing.
	Motive Interactive AIM motivechrisr

03-26-2009, 12:35 PM	#14
Kyle L Hannah Super Affiliate War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: MN Posts: 169 Thanks: 7 Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? Some may agree with not telling others what's working, but maybe some truly want to help people out. I've grown a lot successfully by helping out my fellow man/woman. So if I have something that works, I would be inclined to sell it or share it with others off the simple fact that I believe the more you give the more you get.

03-26-2009, 01:02 PM	#16
honestbizpro Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: , , . Posts: 3,842 Thanks: 195 Thanked 509 Times in 316 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? I guess it is easy to bash the word "Guru" but to say that anyone successful is full of it if they share it? In that case we may as well shut this forum down. I do not even have enough room to list all the Successful Marketers that have influenced me in a positive way and some still doing so time and time again.
	Get $1000+ Per Commission Starting Today!

03-26-2009, 01:14 PM	#17
SimonHarrison Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Location, Location. Posts: 2,066 Thanks: 246 Thanked 446 Times in 266 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? Sort of a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water, suggesting all "gurus" are fakes/useless etc. I would put it like this.... * A huge number of IM gurus are pretty much only good at selling IM products so won't tackle CPA * A lot of the people really making money with CPA are keeping dead quiet, they are "underground guru's" in their own right but keep under the radar whilst counting keeping their systems/niches to themselves and counting daily revenues in excess of $10k per day with ease. However, there are plenty of guys out there, some well known , Trainer, Gauher etc who are teaching people how to monetize CPA pretty well. There are also a number of guys out there, IM guru types quietly making a killing with CPA by merging it with their current systems, Frank Kern, Trey etc ARE doing CPA in various ways on the quiet. I've also noticed of late that some of the guys are taking their IM courses to the networks, one is currently paying out $55 per sale with a continuity aspect. Let's face it, CPA whitehat isn't rocket science, you don't need a guru to teach you how to do any of it, the only vital factor is traffic, and that'#s not IMO "CPA" and plenty of gurus can and do teach you how to do that.

03-26-2009, 05:25 PM	#18
Ryan_Taylor Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 660 Thanks: 10 Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? The reason, I believe, is because IM is all about relationships, JV opportunities and list building. Teaching in IM produces a sales force. CPA is secretive in nature. Marketers here don't share their sales pages, their PPC keywords, and there's not as much opportunity to JV and less focus on list building.

03-26-2009, 05:39 PM	#19
George Sepich TalkMarketingNow.com War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,930 Thanks: 9 Thanked 150 Times in 71 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? There are a lot of gurus involved in CPA. But they are higher up the food chain. They are actually promoting their offers through CPA and many are also involved in ownership/joint ventures with the CPA networks themselves. George

03-28-2009, 03:11 PM	#23
syncjam HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 142 Thanks: 95 Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? As a newbie, it seems the best info I get is free from "gurus" just wanting to help!

03-29-2009, 12:32 AM	#25
JunChic Active Warrior Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 50 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Contact Info	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? Two sentences to sum up on the word "free" coaching/report. There is no free lunches. There will always be agendas (aka affiliate links). Having said, I have no problem buying from their affiliate links so long they provide good quality coaching or report and aren't afraid to admit they had embedded those affiliate links. Just a little token for their time taken.

03-29-2009, 12:14 PM	#27
nzdealer HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 157 Thanks: 6 Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts Social Networking	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? I can tell you something. You do not need to buy course out there as such. Most of the information is free on the internet all you have to do is such for it. Blogs and forums usually have the best information if you search around.

03-29-2009, 04:31 PM	#29
ShabirAli Active Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? Its all about cpc mate, i think everyone can afford 300 - 500$ to make some extra money.its like a business and much people can afford ppc costs. because you are making money from it.

03-31-2009, 12:10 AM	#30
sshirdi Active Warrior Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pune, India Posts: 38 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? I think, CPA market is not stable and there is no guarantee to get paid. I have tried many CPA programs to earn extra and my account gets banned for nothing. Some CPA program paid me more than $2000 but they were accepting more investment from me to promote their campaigns and i had done same and when i generated $5000 they simply banned me. So, i can't trust CPA market anymore and i am again going with Clickbank. Thanks,

03-31-2009, 11:21 AM	#31
LeivaMatias HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 150 Thanks: 0 Thanked 37 Times in 11 Posts Contact Info	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? Its very unrealistic to get banned from a network. The only reason you were banned is because something must have been incorrect in your traffic source, the leads did not pop out on the backend. If you are generated quality numbers with cpa networks, you will have consistency. CPA stability is built through having various campaigns, not just 1. Most of the top cpa marketers are in every niche possible, and have spread themselves across all types of traffic sources. In the business world or in marketing, there is no guarantee of making money. Every business owner is always actively moving their business, even in MLM the big guys making a few million a year, they have to keep actively moving their business or their residual/sales volume will decrease quickly.
	The Youngest Network Marketer To Crack The Internet Code: http://www.matiasleiva.com

03-31-2009, 04:33 PM	#32
honestbizpro Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: , , . Posts: 3,842 Thanks: 195 Thanked 509 Times in 316 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? You would be surprised what a Guru is into. Sometimes opportunities fall into their laps and they see the potential and jump on it. Mike Filsaime got started with safelists and even MLM he does not teach it, but he sure did it. I think that is more realistic of what is really happening in the online world. There is our brand and there is our methods.
	Get $1000+ Per Commission Starting Today!

04-04-2009, 11:16 AM	#34
CompleteOnlineMarketer HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 169 Thanks: 63 Thanked 22 Times in 15 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? here's a thought... Are the CPA affiliate managers making the same kind of $ as their successfully secretive CPA clients..?

04-04-2009, 02:25 PM	#36
CompleteOnlineMarketer HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 169 Thanks: 63 Thanked 22 Times in 15 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? THAT's the job I want!

04-07-2009, 11:08 PM	#44
dmail333 Active Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 59 Thanks: 2 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? I gotta ad this. Its normal to pay to play, all businesses cost money to run. Most people have to pay… to do something. Most still will not do anything. I was in a biz opp making multi-6 figure income. 13 of us met in Omaha... many of us had tried to help and give away the program and offer FREE HELP, TO DO IT FOR THEM IN MY CASE. I told one of my employees to help them along with me. ALL of these people didn't even do hardly anything and got lost or made ridiculous excuses. And we were chasing them down All the other guys had similar stories. I really, really wanted to help these people. All the people did good and made 4 and five figures a month, even less made me feel great. Find some of the guys on the forum who want to give back, and get pleasure form helping you. And DO EXACTLY as they teach you. You don’t need a guru, you’ve got warriors.

04-08-2009, 04:48 PM	#45
sajae102 Active Warrior Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 69 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Social Networking	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? I guess many people look at the typical CPA guru as nothing more than a regular internet marketer. I don't think they should be classified in their own league.
	Unique Health Articles For Sale\|Articles For Purchase Need Quality 100% Copyscape Passed Original Health Articles for your website? Come check out this custom made informative health article pack-low prices!

09-13-2009, 01:36 AM	#47
dandimit Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 57 Thanks: 3 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? I think thee best way to use CPA networks is to lose a little bit on the front end, then put those buyer leads onto an expensive phone sales floor and grab yourself a small percentage. That's what Daniel Pereira and I do with CPA.
	Dan Dimit Premier Internet Marketing, LLC www.thefreetrafficformula.com/blog Google my name and see what happens

09-14-2009, 04:13 AM	#49
Zellach Warrior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? The hardest thing with ppc marketing is that the whole industry is very unstable. The technical side of it is fairly straightforward--Sign up with affiliate network networks, set up tracking, write ads, create landing pages, and split test the ads/landing pages/offers until you come up with a profitable campaign. Once you find a system that that is profitable you buy more traffic. You can read up on the technical side online, but if a "guru" releases his exact method others would immediately start bidding on his/her keywords and using his ads and landing pages. That would make the campaign unprofitable immediately.

09-14-2009, 10:34 AM	#50
Greg Jacobs Mage War Room Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chiang Mai Posts: 484 Thanks: 20 Thanked 208 Times in 77 Posts Social Networking	Re: Why no so called Guru's in CPA? I can maybe give you guys a little perspective. I have been doing CPA and other things for a little over 2 years. I do quite well and definitely don't need a day job anymore. but to put it in perspective, I didnt even know that WF existed until May of this year, by which point I was already set. I earned my dough the hard way. Self taught with a credit card. Never took a course or paid for tools. Eventually things started working and expanding from there. But I understand why some will cross over to be a 'guru' The fact is that CPA marketing and related is like educated gambling. You need to be on it 24/7 and you win and you lose. Right now I am making a transition, hopefully to share the knowledge I have learned and if I can make even close to what I was doing with CPA, by helping others on the path, then I will be content. The fact of the matter is that its a dirty job up there in dem' hills diggin up the gold. Better to sell the shovels and the maps and enjoy some fresh air. .
	...hide your kids...hide your wife. A MONSTER is in the House.