WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid

PPC-Coach · 06-18-2009, 08:15 AM

As a network owner, I've experienced the other side of these cheating techniques first hand. Not only do they get the affiliate banned and not paid, but the network gets in trouble with the merchant and can get a bad rep if it's not fixed with merchatns. I've seen quite a few WSOs recently regarding CPA techniques that are totally fraudulent and involve submitting fake leads and then pumping up your traffic numbers with fake clicks.

For the love of god, don't do this.

1.) You're going to be banned from the network. If it's a direct track network, that means all 400 other direct track networks now know you're a thief and you will not get into any of them in the future. So you've effectively killed your CPA business with anyone who runs a DT network. Yes there are some networks that are not using DT code, but they're security is just as good if not better and you'll be caught with them too.

2.) It's fraud. You're wasting the networks time, the merchants time and you're attempting to steal money from both. It's not BlueFart, it's like trying to rob a bank in the offline world. Don't do it.

3.) You're not going to see a single penny of the money you tried to earn by cheating. Networks are smart, fraud departments know more then you as they're filled with guys who have been there, done that and seen almost every trick in the book. You're not going to beat them no matter how sophisticated you think your system is. Don't do it.

Instead of thinking of ways to steal and cheat try doing it legitimately. You'll get paid and you'll sleep far better at night knowing you're not a petty thief. I'm posting this because there are far too many newbies who read a very attractive wso title and think it's all good, when in reality it isn't. If the wso you're buying involves promises of large numbers and hardly any work, don't bother buying it because it's crap and most likely involves something totally fraudulent. I'm not posting this to pick a fight with anyone and not pointing fingers at anyone, just warning new people, don't do these fraudulent techniques. Networks have to spend a lot of time monitoring accounts for fraud now and anytime a wso comes out promoting a new fraudulent way to do things, more time is spent banning affiliates that could be dedicated to other more productive projects.

Rant over.

Mike Morgan. · 06-18-2009, 08:49 AM

Hey PPC-Coach,

I agree with you that all the techniques used should not be some how which hurt the CPA business .

Mike

unlanthony · 06-18-2009, 09:07 AM

Hey PPC-Coach,

Same here I totally agree with you. As an affiliate manager for a network we have been spending more time lately being detectives and banning affiliates from our network. The clean up is necessary, these few bad apples make it that much harder for the affiliate who is working there butt off making an honest living. If we all work together, NOT trying to cheat the system there is a ton of money to made :-)

PPC-Coach · 06-18-2009, 09:11 AM

We spent about the last 45 days clearing out accounts that were using this technique and others that were part of stolen credit card ring. It hurt our business and hurt some relationships we had with merchants. That's why I posted it, I don't want a brand new crop of affiliates thinking it's ok to do those things.

alldomain · 06-20-2009, 01:03 AM

well i agree with you but however even us affiliates who do this 100% legit end up getting blamed for crap. Just not long ago i was accused of fraudulent activity because people were using stolen cc i had to show them proof it was not me. 1 month later again account inactive just happened today for some reason most likely same thing as i only promote 2 offers all 100% legit so i have to go through all this again to get my account back up and running but i dont know how long it will take this time. I am really starting to hate people using stolen cc

Metronicity · 06-20-2009, 01:38 AM

This really needs to be a sticky. And you are so right - we've been discussing this elsewhere in the Forum - there seems to be a thread on a BlueFart site saying something like "Hey wanna make some quick easy cash - shoot over to the Warrior Forum, create an account, get 30 posts up and then run a "How to make a fortune with BlueFart CPA" on the WSO".

redicelander · 06-20-2009, 10:13 AM

Ya that sounds annoying with someone buying through your affiliate link with stolen credit cards. Like, how are you supposed to know? Obviously it would only show up one or two times I guess, if you weren't doing it. Man, I wouldn't even ever consider that and wouldn't even know how to do it or want to do it. Who would? That's illegal and can land you in jail. Like the guy I saw on the news who was in jail for 5 years because of that.

dzoaffiliate · 06-20-2009, 01:33 PM

There's no need to cheat, because if you are patient and build a real business, then you will be rewarded not once but many any years down the road. It's like planting a tree. Nurture it and it will provide shade for you for many years after its matured.

Nitin

Shakul · 06-21-2009, 05:08 AM

Exactly!

If you cheat, you will get banned. Not only this you will even loose your time! Then you will feel that there is no way to make money...

And after getting banned, one day will come when you will realize that you were fool because you were doing illegal stuff and you will realize that you needs a CPA Account, but then you will not be able to get an account...

Side by side, you are increasing the work for an AM and making troubles for the CPA network.

On other side, if you do legitimately then you will not get banned, you will get paid. Not only this, most of the whitehat business will make small residual income for you.

Instead of wasting time and finding the loopholes, just do some whitehat methods

Shakul

yukinara · 06-21-2009, 11:28 AM

*sigh* regardless of what you said, the world still full of asshole who never try to do anything good in their life for once. I know some black hat techniques and I'm not afraid to admit that I like them, but black hat doesn't mean illegal or unethical. Many black hat techniques and benefit both the network and merchant if use right.

jessewrites · 06-21-2009, 11:48 AM

I'm always amazed at how much effort and work some people are willing to go through to be lazy. Doing it the right way has longevity and a lot less stress. Cheating and stealing is stupid. But I guess those who think it's not will find out soon enough.

JduncanMD · 06-21-2009, 12:14 PM

tsk tsk it really doesn't pay if you are lazy.

If you want to earn you have to work hard for it.

worlok · 06-21-2009, 01:10 PM

I read this whole thread and I have no idea what method or cheat you are talking about. What specifically is the "cheating" that is referred to here? Can you explain without funny abbreviations and acronyms? Thanks.

Edit: Oh I missed that one sentence. I don't do that.

Quote:

involve submitting fake leads and then pumping up your traffic numbers with fake clicks.

Dave d · 06-21-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worlok

I read this whole thread and I have no idea what method or cheat you are talking about. What specifically is the "cheating" that is referred to here? Can you explain without funny abbreviations and acronyms? Thanks.

Edit: Oh I missed that one sentence. I don't do that.

Good point, I will assume a lot of newbies who are frustrated with CPA may find this post useful but you seem to be just talking in riddles can you please elaborate more on what may get somebody banned apart from the obvious like a recent WSO I seen which basically told you to fill out your own leads.

Dave

yukinara · 06-21-2009, 02:17 PM

in affiliate marketing, the word cheating has lots of meaning. for example, you give people something to complete an offer which is not incentive, or you stole other people credit card to complete offer, make a purchase and send the lead to the merchant/network. Those are all black hat marketing
Honestly, not all black hat techniques are bad, I know some techniques can be benefit to the affiliate,consumer,network and merchant in both short term and long term, and they can make huge profit to the network and affiliate, and it's not about sending fraud or fake leads. I think what the OP mentioned is fraud and fake leads

Black hat is not illegal, but stealing other people credit card is and I curse those assholes who bring the bad name to black hat marketers, include those scammers in Nigeria and China

and if the network condemn black hat technique is bad in general, then *cough* shaving lead and copying other people landing page * cough*, which ALMOST every networks do, is considered what? White hat?

We have to face one truth: human is greedy. If you just want a normal life, dont jump into this business, find a master degree and make a living from it. I can say EVERY single company out there always want to find someway to cheat if they have a chance. It's just to some degree, it's acceptable, that is the business world for you

MrsAuspicious · 06-21-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metronicity

This really needs to be a sticky. And you are so right - we've been discussing this elsewhere in the Forum - there seems to be a thread on a BlueFart site saying something like "Hey wanna make some quick easy cash - shoot over to the Warrior Forum, create an account, get 30 posts up and then run a "How to make a fortune with BlueFart CPA" on the WSO".

Ditto! I own a "GPT" site. I run a tight ship and I have only a handful of dedicated members, BUT these members ONLY come to the site when they are, for example, going to shop at walmart dot com and want to get a rebate or, want free samples, etc. Its people who pull these "STUNTS" that mess it up for everyone! Its really pathetic. REALLY, needs to be a sticky.

raymagnetic · 06-21-2009, 05:11 PM

I too would like to know exactly what constitutes as cheating when it comes to obtaining leads.

Something like stolen credit cards is obviously cheating as it's illegal and involves federal jail time, but what other methods are you referring to?

MrsAuspicious · 06-21-2009, 08:17 PM

I like to use CPAStorm so I'm going to cut & paste into here just a few clips from their terms of service

Quote:

Invalid Leads: shall mean fraudulent, incomplete or duplicate Leads as further defined herein. Fraudulent Leads shall include Leads that result from Affiliate or its sub-publishers engaging in the entry of Consumer information without the consent of the actual Consumer, such as by adding leads or clicks or inflating leads or clicks by fraudulent traffic generation such as pre-population of forms without the advance written consent of CPA Storm or other mechanisms not approved by CPA Storm. Incomplete Leads include Leads in which the information sent to CPA Storm does not contain the data or information required by CPA Storm or its Advertisers. Duplicate Leads includes Leads that Affiliate sends to CPA Storm that contains identical information Affiliate has previously sent to CPA Storm.

Quote:

6. LIMITED LICENSE TO USE OFFERS. CPA Storm hereby grants to Affiliate a nonexclusive, revocable license to display Offers in accordance with the terms of this Agreement and any additional terms posted in connection with each Offer. To the extent, if any, that an Offer contains an Advertiser’s trademarks, service marks or trade names, Affiliate shall not use such marks in a manner that might be deemed to create a unitary composite mark. Affiliate agrees not to use an Offer in a manner that is disparaging of CPA Storm or any Advertiser. The Advertisers reserve all proprietary rights in and to the Offer not expressly granted herein. Affiliate acknowledges that all use of the Offer by it inures solely to the benefit of the Advertiser. Affiliate will cease using any Offer immediately upon the request of CPA Storm. Upon termination of this Agreement or written notice from CPA Storm, Affiliate will immediately cease using all Offers, and the license granted herein shall terminate.

Quote:

7. GENERAL AFFILIATE OBLIGATIONS. Affiliate represents and warrants that all information submitted by it in its application is complete and accurate.
Affiliate agrees that it is responsible for providing complete and accurate registration information to CPA Storm and maintaining current registration information with CPA Storm including, but not limited to, its contact information.
Affiliate understands and agrees that it is solely responsible for all of its marketing activities, and it is individually liable for any damages or losses incurred by its violation of any applicable laws or regulations or this Agreement.
Solely Affiliate is responsible for, and CPA Storm hereby disclaims all liability for, the development, operation and maintenance of, and all costs associated with, Affiliate’s website(s) and any content thereon. Affiliate agrees that its website(s) shall not, in any way, copy or resemble the look and feel of, or create the impression that it is part of CPA Storm’s or its Advertisers’ websites.
Affiliate shall not modify or alter any Offer or Creative in any manner. Affiliate will only run approved banners and text in its advertising of Offers and will not create its own banners or advertising text based on the Creative or Offer, unless expressly approved in writing from CPA Storm. Any other use of Offers or Creative will result in immediate termination of this Agreement and the loss of payment of Leads.
Affiliate warrants that Affiliate is not currently under order or investigation by any federal, state, local, or international regulatory or law enforcement organization. Affiliate will notify CPA Storm immediately in writing of any investigation, litigation, arbitrated matter or other dispute relating to Affiliate’s advertising, marketing or information security or privacy practices, even if any such investigation is nonpublic in nature.
Affiliate represents and warrants that it will at all times comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations, and, without limiting the foregoing, the following requirements, in promoting, disseminating or otherwise distributing an Offer. Without limiting the foregoing:

(A) Affiliate shall not place an Offer on a website or in any other context with inappropriate content, which includes, but is not limited to, content that (i) contains or promotes the use of alcohol, tobacco or illegal substances, nudity, sex, pornography, adult-oriented content, such as phone sex or escort services, expletives or other inappropriate language; (ii) promotes gratuitous violence, abuses or threatens physical harm; (iii) promotes illegal or unethical activity, racism, hate, "spam," mail fraud, gambling, sweepstakes, pyramid schemes, investment and money-making opportunities or illegal advice; (iv) promotes the use of illegal activities, such as how to build a bomb, counterfeiting money and software pirating (e.g., Warez, Hotline); (v) is libelous, defamatory, infringing, false, misleading or contrary to public policy; (vi) is otherwise prohibited by federal or state law; (vii) may bring CPA Storm and/or its associated Advertisers negative publicity; (viii) introduces viruses, worms, harmful code and/or Trojan horses on the Internet; or (ix) is otherwise objectionable to CPA Storm, in its sole discretion.

(B) Any spoofing, redirecting or trafficking from adult-related websites in an effort to gain traffic is prohibited.

(C) Any trafficking from websites that are point, lottery or rewards based and encourage users to click on Offers or use Offers to generate revenue for users to win points, get rewards, or other incentives are prohibited, unless expressly approved in writing from CPA Storm or as part of the terms of the particular Offer.

(D) Affiliate shall not disseminate, promote or otherwise distribute any Offer through the use of contextual media, adware, pop-up/pop-under technologies, plug-ins, or similar technologies (provided, however, that certain pop-up or pop-under technology may be permitted with the prior written consent of CPA Storm).

(E) Affiliate shall not violate any third-party terms and conditions, including, without limitation, applicable website terms and conditions, including those that prohibit: (i) unauthorized use of a third party web site for commercial gain; or (ii) posting bulletins to non-owned accounts.

(F) Affiliate shall not use deceptive or misleading practices, such as the use of spyware, adware, devices, programs, robots, hidden pictures, redirects, spiders, computer scripts or other automated, artificial or fraudulent methods designed to appear as if a Consumer is generating a Lead (provided, however, that certain adware technology may be permitted with the prior written consent of CPA Storm).

(G) Affiliate shall not engage in any deceptive or misleading form of advertising or marketing, which includes, but is not limited to, phishing (the practice of sending an email to an individual, falsely claiming to be an established legitimate enterprise in an attempt to scam or defraud the user into surrendering private and personal information that can be used for identity theft, or for any other purpose).

(H) Affiliate shall not send or display any messages or ads on online social networking sites such as MySpace.com or Facebook.com, or through applications whether they appear on such social networking sites or otherwise, or online classified ads or bulletin boards such as craigslist.com unless (i) Affiliate indicated the specific social networking, applications or other sites that it uses in its application to join CPA Storm’s network or (ii) Affiliate obtains CPA Storm’s express, advance, written approval. This restriction includes, without limitation, bulletins, comments, mail, profiles or any other features of such sites.
(I) Affiliate shall operate in compliance with all applicable laws, regulations decisions and industry best practices, including but not limited to: (i) Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act and any current or future interpretation by the Federal Trade Commission (“FTC”) of Section 5, including as it relates to affiliate programs, incentive programs, or advertising, privacy and information security generally, and (ii) the Direct Marketing Association’s Best Practices for Online Advertising and Affiliate Marketing.
(J) If Affiliate engages in any keyword search marketing hereunder, Affiliate shall (1) comply with all rules, requirements and terms of the particular search engine being used, (2) not infringe upon any trademark or other intellectual property rights of any third parties, and (3) comply with all terms and requirements of the Advertisers with respect to search marketing.
(K) If Affiliate is distributing an Offer outside the United States, Affiliate represents and warrants that (1) it is familiar with the particular laws, regulations and industry customs in those countries in which is distributing the Offer, (2) it has previous experience distributing offers in such countries, and (3) it will comply with all such laws, regulations and industry customs.

Just to throw in for reading. Its extensive and that isnt even all of it. Maybe someone can explain it. Its hard for me other than to just say don't do illegal stuff.

yukinara · 06-21-2009, 08:31 PM

or maybe the OP just feel frustrated because he has to deal with lots of fraudulent account recently, so, he want to vent his anger here????

Izesta · 06-21-2009, 08:35 PM

Mrs Auspicious, your overview of some of the TOS seems pretty darn clear. I was likewise confused as to what the fraudulent tactics were - other than the very obvious.

Thanks

Izesta · 06-21-2009, 08:41 PM

Oops, forgot to mention. I was all ready to apply to a couple of networks tomorrow and I did not know I could not use Twitter to get messages out to people. Though I can see why that restriction exists. It would get really crazy with tons of people sending CPA stuff via tweets. Perhaps I better get a bit more up to par before going through the phone interview.

MrsAuspicious · 06-21-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izesta

Oops, forgot to mention. I was all ready to apply to a couple of networks tomorrow and I did not know I could not use Twitter to get messages out to people. Though I can see why that restriction exists. It would get really crazy with tons of people sending CPA stuff via tweets. Perhaps I better get a bit more up to par before going through the phone interview.

Izesta, I'm glad that the information was of some help. When I first started I had to sit and read all the TOS several times to fully understand the terminology. Also, I am not sure of which merchants, or networks, but I do believe there are a couple that accept Twitter as legit advertising so you might check into that, I just know I've gotten many campaigns through tweets. They may not know the TOS either though but still would be worth a look.

PPC-Coach · 06-22-2009, 09:21 AM

For the guys wanting to know what other methods these thieves are using, that would open up a whole new crop of cheaters to deal with so I will never disclose that info. So if some of what I posted sounds like a riddle, that's ok with me. I think cheating can fall into the following areas and should be avoided:

1.) Using stolen credit cards to fill out offers.
2.) Hiring people to fill out offers for you.
3.) Telling job applicants they have to fill out something before you'll interview them when you don't have any job to offer and you're sole purpose is to get them to fill out your offer.

There's more, but like I said, I'm very weary of giving out ways because it will just lead to more headaches. The above methods are pretty well knonw to thieves and network owners. You should see how these guys try to cover their tracks, some are pretty good, but others make it perfectly obvious what they're doing. Other network owners have a seen a ton of this crap too. I am frustrated with wasting resources hunting down these thieves. I would rather focus my resources and staff on positive areas. I am thinking of creating something where all networks can go to check on all applicants to see if they're providing legit info or if they've been banned from any network before. Direct track owners already see this, but those proprietary networks don't. I think that would help, but scammers have no problem inventing completely fake details either. It's a constant cat and mouse game that I wish I didn't have to play.

Woody Crenshaw · 06-22-2009, 10:15 AM

From CPAStorm's TOS:

Quote:

(F) Affiliate shall not use deceptive or misleading practices, such as the use of spyware, adware, devices, programs, robots, hidden pictures, redirects, spiders, computer scripts or other automated, artificial or fraudulent methods designed to appear as if a Consumer is generating a Lead (provided, however, that certain adware technology may be permitted with the prior written consent of CPA Storm).

I see that the OP (PPC-Coach) has a link to his site CPV-Coach. Isn't this the same as adware? Isn't it clearly stated that this is against the rules?

Is this different for different networks? I, personally, thought that CPV/PPV (adware) was allowed until I saw that post.

I'm just a little confused why someone would leave a post about fraudulent people then promote a method that is also considered fraudulent.

TE2 · 06-22-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woody Crenshaw

From CPAStorm's TOS:

I see that the OP (PPC-Coach) has a link to his site CPV-Coach. Isn't this the same as adware? Isn't it clearly stated that this is against the rules?

Is this different for different networks? I, personally, thought that CPV/PPV (adware) was allowed until I saw that post.

I'm just a little confused why someone would leave a post about fraudulent people then promote a method that is also considered fraudulent.

CPV is not fraudulent. It is accepted by most networks.

Just because CPAstorm does not accept it doesn't make it bad.

Also, notice that "... certain adware technology may be permitted..." in their TOS.

If you aren't sure it is permitted, then ask your AM.

Regards,

John

Woody Crenshaw · 06-22-2009, 12:58 PM

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't think it was after reading about the difference between spyware and adware, but then I saw the TOS and wasn't sure.

I also know of a current WSO that advertises itself as "BlueFart" and it basically just teaches CPV, which also made me wonder.

I will definitely read the TOS of each network to make sure CPV can be used.

Now the original topic can be continued....

jayman · 06-22-2009, 01:40 PM

Totally agree with PPV Coach. I hope there is a way that all the networks can check applicants and see if they have been blacklisted or banned elsewhere and there is no way this BlueFartter can get into any network. This is the reason people are buying accounts in so many forums and I can agree with networks that don't accept applicants from certain countries or part of the world. It's better to not spend so much resources dealing with frauds from applicants from these countries and concentrate on other things to improve the network.

Do it the mafia way, if I don't know which house in the block you are living, I will burn down the whole block to get you

This is for the benefit of all

brp002 · 06-22-2009, 02:00 PM

I think the best thing you can do is make sure that you follow the terms of agreement. I mean learn the right way to earn money so you can make money all the time with out ever getting booted.

TheFlash · 06-22-2009, 02:08 PM

the truth is that many CPA networks simply LOVE not paying the affiliates who made a lot of money, and just keep all the money for themselves

and sometimes the CPA networks just make up really stupid reasons for that, because of their greed

emakina · 06-22-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFlash

the truth is that many CPA networks simply LOVE not paying the affiliates who made a lot of money, and just keep all the money for themselves

and sometimes the CPA networks just make up really stupid reasons for that, because of their greed

this scares me a whole lot. what guarantees that i will get paid if i start making thousands of dollars a day?

TE2 · 06-22-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emakina

this scares me a whole lot. what guarantees that i will get paid if i start making thousands of dollars a day?

Stick with the top tier CPA networks.

I wouldn't worry much about this because the the CPA networks need publishers (us) to promote the offers. Without us, they have no business.

On top of this, you need to diversify - promote multiple offers from several networks. Don't put all your financial eggs in one basket.

Regards,

John

RoiRaw · 06-22-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emakina

this scares me a whole lot. what guarantees that i will get paid if i start making thousands of dollars a day?

This is why it is best that people do not just join every CPA that will let them in. You need to do your research and make sure you join a reliable highly sought upon CPA. You do not want to go with those that have a reputation of low converts and low pay. Those are the best to AVOID.

Robin L. · 06-22-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metronicity

This really needs to be a sticky. And you are so right - we've been discussing this elsewhere in the Forum - there seems to be a thread on a BlueFart site saying something like "Hey wanna make some quick easy cash - shoot over to the Warrior Forum, create an account, get 30 posts up and then run a "How to make a fortune with BlueFart CPA" on the WSO".

OMG.. That is TERRIBLE!!!! And who would buy it if they know its not allowed???? OMG

It does make it harder for new people like myself, but I will say one thing about this forum... I find that the people I have meant and talked w/ on here are all wonderful and I am soo thankful for this forum!

redicelander · 06-22-2009, 04:36 PM

When I first started CPA, I got into a certain network that isn't well-known (well, never even seen it mentioned here at all for one) fairly easily with just a quick approval. Now I just checked the application page for something, and perhaps they've been dealing with too much fraud or something as they have extremely stringent requirements now. Basically, they're only accepting new affiliates that have astronomical budgets. Even those probably making $5000/month, which many would consider a good salary in the offline world, will probably not get in to it.

LeivaMatias · 06-22-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukinara

*sigh* regardless of what you said, the world still full of asshole who never try to do anything good in their life for once. I know some black hat techniques and I'm not afraid to admit that I like them, but black hat doesn't mean illegal or unethical. Many black hat techniques and benefit both the network and merchant if use right.

Hey you are correct here. Many of the white hat methods are just a waste of time and over saturated in some aspects.

If the advertiser is making money, then he is satisfied. BlueFart becomes an issue when the advertiser is not making money and losing based on that affiliates traffic.

I personally work with advertisers and network owners, everyone does BlueFart.

Even the top "white hat" money earners, have BlueFart systems setup behind the scenes.

Its just the reality of how internet marketing works, just like banks.

There is a fine line, between FRAUD and twisting/bending the rules a bit.

If you can't bend the rules, and twist certain aspects of marketing around, you will have a hard time reaching new income goals.

PPC-Coach · 06-23-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFlash

the truth is that many CPA networks simply LOVE not paying the affiliates who made a lot of money, and just keep all the money for themselves

and sometimes the CPA networks just make up really stupid reasons for that, because of their greed

I can't speak for other networks, but I can speak for my own and this kind of opinion is way off base. As a business, why would a network not want to pay affiliates? Do they want to make a bad name for themselves? Do they want to be known as a network that invents reasons not to pay you? Do they want to burn relationships with merchants?

They dont LOVE to not pay you. When you don't get paid, it means they didn't get paid because something was very wrong with the traffic. It's actually the opposite, we LOVE paying affiliates because it means everything is going well and we're all making money.

There's far too many bleeding heart affiliates posting crap saying "XYW network scammed me out of $xxx". When in reality, (99% of the time), it's posted by a scamming thief affiliate who is pissed off that they got caught and want to "get back" at the network that caught them. The next time you read a post like that ask yourself, "what did this guy do to get his commissions not paid?" I guarantee you it was something he wasn't supposed to be doing and I guarantee he knows full well what he did and how he was trying to get away with it. There's two sides to every story and most network owners will not bother replying to threads like that BECAUSE it legitimizes their false claims and they want to fight it out with you in a public forum to try to make the network look bad.

I'm sure there are rare instances where a network is full of it, but that would be few and far between if the network owners have half a brain.

INFOSEEKER-2009 · 06-23-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PPC-Coach

....
There's far too many bleeding heart affiliates posting crap saying "XYW network scammed me out of ". When in reality, (99% of the time), it's posted by a scamming thief affiliate who is pissed off that they got caught and want to "get back" at the network that caught them. The next time you read a post like that ask yourself, "what did this guy do to get his commissions not paid?" ... etc ...

Your right about that Coach ...

The Screamers are always the Ones that Cry Foul-Play ....

Those are always the funniest to Read ... Like a Sunday Morning Cartoon ...

Best of Luck All !

Am2m · 06-23-2009, 09:22 PM

I'm new and have been researching CPA/CPL networks and its funny to me to login to this forum and find this as one of the first posts. I actually read a review last night that went something similar to:

" JohnDoe Marketing took $5000 of my income right out of my pocket. Is it not stealing to withold money that I worked hard to do. How am I to control who fills in the offers posted on my website.
Searcched the person's name to find numerous posts in forums, networking sites and similar that were all "I'll pay you $XY to complete a series of questions"

I think some have lost all morals in their life.

World_Peace · 06-24-2009, 11:18 PM

Well, we humans made the system and it is not impossible to overcome some one so called expert system or perfect system.

Idea can change the world, a system does not stand a chance in front of it if the person know what he need and how to get it.

FasTrack-Eddie · 06-26-2009, 04:00 AM

Go coach !!! Go !!! Rah - Rah - Rah !!!

Some just never learn.

>wink<

thuxen · 10-25-2009, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PPC-Coach

It's actually the opposite, we LOVE paying affiliates because it means everything is going well and we're all making money.

I find this quite funny, because your network isn't paying me. And not only are you not paying me, I'm being completely ignored on AIM/Email and phone calls go to voicemail.

I was not sending fraudulent traffic. It was Liam, one of your ex-AM's talked me into giving you guys a try, so i did. I moved some traffic over and now im being screwed.

Way to treat people who supported your PPC-Coach program and your network...

Flaura78 · 10-25-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worlok

I read this whole thread and I have no idea what method or cheat you are talking about. What specifically is the "cheating" that is referred to here? Can you explain without funny abbreviations and acronyms? Thanks.

Edit: Oh I missed that one sentence. I don't do that.

I'd never ever considered doing anything like that... If my conversion is below the Network EPC, it's still better than sending fraud traffic. If my conversion is much better than network epc, i start worrying... But networks see the traffic source exactly, don't they?

So they see that it is possibly better targeted than others'...
If you only join a CPa network to cheat, it's easier to rob a bank, and the chances to be caught are about the same.

chimeara27 · 10-25-2009, 11:42 PM

yeah definitely you'll get ban. i know a site banned by google.

06-18-2009, 08:15 AM	#1
PPC-Coach Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: , , . Posts: 728 Thanks: 2 Thanked 85 Times in 39 Posts	WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid As a network owner, I've experienced the other side of these cheating techniques first hand. Not only do they get the affiliate banned and not paid, but the network gets in trouble with the merchant and can get a bad rep if it's not fixed with merchatns. I've seen quite a few WSOs recently regarding CPA techniques that are totally fraudulent and involve submitting fake leads and then pumping up your traffic numbers with fake clicks. For the love of god, don't do this. 1.) You're going to be banned from the network. If it's a direct track network, that means all 400 other direct track networks now know you're a thief and you will not get into any of them in the future. So you've effectively killed your CPA business with anyone who runs a DT network. Yes there are some networks that are not using DT code, but they're security is just as good if not better and you'll be caught with them too. 2.) It's fraud. You're wasting the networks time, the merchants time and you're attempting to steal money from both. It's not BlueFart, it's like trying to rob a bank in the offline world. Don't do it. 3.) You're not going to see a single penny of the money you tried to earn by cheating. Networks are smart, fraud departments know more then you as they're filled with guys who have been there, done that and seen almost every trick in the book. You're not going to beat them no matter how sophisticated you think your system is. Don't do it. Instead of thinking of ways to steal and cheat try doing it legitimately. You'll get paid and you'll sleep far better at night knowing you're not a petty thief. I'm posting this because there are far too many newbies who read a very attractive wso title and think it's all good, when in reality it isn't. If the wso you're buying involves promises of large numbers and hardly any work, don't bother buying it because it's crap and most likely involves something totally fraudulent. I'm not posting this to pick a fight with anyone and not pointing fingers at anyone, just warning new people, don't do these fraudulent techniques. Networks have to spend a lot of time monitoring accounts for fraud now and anytime a wso comes out promoting a new fraudulent way to do things, more time is spent banning affiliates that could be dedicated to other more productive projects. Rant over.
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06-18-2009, 08:49 AM	#2
Mike Morgan. Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 780 Blog Entries: 43 Thanks: 8 Thanked 230 Times in 49 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid Hey PPC-Coach, I agree with you that all the techniques used should not be some how which hurt the CPA business . Mike
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06-18-2009, 09:07 AM	#3
unlanthony Active Warrior Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 31 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid Hey PPC-Coach, Same here I totally agree with you. As an affiliate manager for a network we have been spending more time lately being detectives and banning affiliates from our network. The clean up is necessary, these few bad apples make it that much harder for the affiliate who is working there butt off making an honest living. If we all work together, NOT trying to cheat the system there is a ton of money to made :-)

06-18-2009, 09:11 AM	#4
PPC-Coach Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: , , . Posts: 728 Thanks: 2 Thanked 85 Times in 39 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid We spent about the last 45 days clearing out accounts that were using this technique and others that were part of stolen credit card ring. It hurt our business and hurt some relationships we had with merchants. That's why I posted it, I don't want a brand new crop of affiliates thinking it's ok to do those things.
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06-20-2009, 01:03 AM	#5
alldomain Active Warrior Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 73 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid well i agree with you but however even us affiliates who do this 100% legit end up getting blamed for crap. Just not long ago i was accused of fraudulent activity because people were using stolen cc i had to show them proof it was not me. 1 month later again account inactive just happened today for some reason most likely same thing as i only promote 2 offers all 100% legit so i have to go through all this again to get my account back up and running but i dont know how long it will take this time. I am really starting to hate people using stolen cc
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06-20-2009, 01:38 AM	#6
Metronicity Whacked-Out Copywriter War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Paris via Sydney Posts: 653 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 138 Thanked 114 Times in 75 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid This really needs to be a sticky. And you are so right - we've been discussing this elsewhere in the Forum - there seems to be a thread on a BlueFart site saying something like "Hey wanna make some quick easy cash - shoot over to the Warrior Forum, create an account, get 30 posts up and then run a "How to make a fortune with BlueFart CPA" on the WSO".
	Riding Shotgun with Frank Kern WSO Heard about WPMage? Want some advice on it? I was a beta-tester. PM me Dude.

06-20-2009, 10:13 AM	#7
redicelander Viking Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Easter Island Posts: 419 Thanks: 9 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid Ya that sounds annoying with someone buying through your affiliate link with stolen credit cards. Like, how are you supposed to know? Obviously it would only show up one or two times I guess, if you weren't doing it. Man, I wouldn't even ever consider that and wouldn't even know how to do it or want to do it. Who would? That's illegal and can land you in jail. Like the guy I saw on the news who was in jail for 5 years because of that.
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06-20-2009, 01:33 PM	#8
dzoaffiliate HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 240 Thanks: 9 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid There's no need to cheat, because if you are patient and build a real business, then you will be rewarded not once but many any years down the road. It's like planting a tree. Nurture it and it will provide shade for you for many years after its matured. Nitin
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06-21-2009, 05:08 AM	#9
Shakul Hyperactive Warrior Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Dell Studio XPS 1640 Posts: 443 Thanks: 14 Thanked 59 Times in 32 Posts Contact Info	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid Exactly! If you cheat, you will get banned. Not only this you will even loose your time! Then you will feel that there is no way to make money... And after getting banned, one day will come when you will realize that you were fool because you were doing illegal stuff and you will realize that you needs a CPA Account, but then you will not be able to get an account... Side by side, you are increasing the work for an AM and making troubles for the CPA network. On other side, if you do legitimately then you will not get banned, you will get paid. Not only this, most of the whitehat business will make small residual income for you. Instead of wasting time and finding the loopholes, just do some whitehat methods Shakul
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06-21-2009, 11:28 AM	#10
yukinara Active Warrior Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid sigh regardless of what you said, the world still full of asshole who never try to do anything good in their life for once. I know some black hat techniques and I'm not afraid to admit that I like them, but black hat doesn't mean illegal or unethical. Many black hat techniques and benefit both the network and merchant if use right.

06-21-2009, 11:48 AM	#11
jessewrites Active Warrior Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 34 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid I'm always amazed at how much effort and work some people are willing to go through to be lazy. Doing it the right way has longevity and a lot less stress. Cheating and stealing is stupid. But I guess those who think it's not will find out soon enough.
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06-21-2009, 12:14 PM	#12
JduncanMD Warrior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid tsk tsk it really doesn't pay if you are lazy. If you want to earn you have to work hard for it.
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06-21-2009, 02:17 PM	#15
yukinara Active Warrior Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid in affiliate marketing, the word cheating has lots of meaning. for example, you give people something to complete an offer which is not incentive, or you stole other people credit card to complete offer, make a purchase and send the lead to the merchant/network. Those are all black hat marketing Honestly, not all black hat techniques are bad, I know some techniques can be benefit to the affiliate,consumer,network and merchant in both short term and long term, and they can make huge profit to the network and affiliate, and it's not about sending fraud or fake leads. I think what the OP mentioned is fraud and fake leads Black hat is not illegal, but stealing other people credit card is and I curse those assholes who bring the bad name to black hat marketers, include those scammers in Nigeria and China and if the network condemn black hat technique is bad in general, then cough shaving lead and copying other people landing page * cough*, which ALMOST every networks do, is considered what? White hat? We have to face one truth: human is greedy. If you just want a normal life, dont jump into this business, find a master degree and make a living from it. I can say EVERY single company out there always want to find someway to cheat if they have a chance. It's just to some degree, it's acceptable, that is the business world for you

06-21-2009, 05:11 PM	#17
raymagnetic Active Warrior Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 42 Thanks: 5 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid I too would like to know exactly what constitutes as cheating when it comes to obtaining leads. Something like stolen credit cards is obviously cheating as it's illegal and involves federal jail time, but what other methods are you referring to?

06-21-2009, 08:31 PM	#19
yukinara Active Warrior Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid or maybe the OP just feel frustrated because he has to deal with lots of fraudulent account recently, so, he want to vent his anger here????

06-21-2009, 08:35 PM	#20
Izesta I Zest for Learning !! War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 112 Thanks: 66 Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid Mrs Auspicious, your overview of some of the TOS seems pretty darn clear. I was likewise confused as to what the fraudulent tactics were - other than the very obvious. Thanks

06-21-2009, 08:41 PM	#21
Izesta I Zest for Learning !! War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 112 Thanks: 66 Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid Oops, forgot to mention. I was all ready to apply to a couple of networks tomorrow and I did not know I could not use Twitter to get messages out to people. Though I can see why that restriction exists. It would get really crazy with tons of people sending CPA stuff via tweets. Perhaps I better get a bit more up to par before going through the phone interview.

06-22-2009, 09:21 AM	#23
PPC-Coach Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: , , . Posts: 728 Thanks: 2 Thanked 85 Times in 39 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid For the guys wanting to know what other methods these thieves are using, that would open up a whole new crop of cheaters to deal with so I will never disclose that info. So if some of what I posted sounds like a riddle, that's ok with me. I think cheating can fall into the following areas and should be avoided: 1.) Using stolen credit cards to fill out offers. 2.) Hiring people to fill out offers for you. 3.) Telling job applicants they have to fill out something before you'll interview them when you don't have any job to offer and you're sole purpose is to get them to fill out your offer. There's more, but like I said, I'm very weary of giving out ways because it will just lead to more headaches. The above methods are pretty well knonw to thieves and network owners. You should see how these guys try to cover their tracks, some are pretty good, but others make it perfectly obvious what they're doing. Other network owners have a seen a ton of this crap too. I am frustrated with wasting resources hunting down these thieves. I would rather focus my resources and staff on positive areas. I am thinking of creating something where all networks can go to check on all applicants to see if they're providing legit info or if they've been banned from any network before. Direct track owners already see this, but those proprietary networks don't. I think that would help, but scammers have no problem inventing completely fake details either. It's a constant cat and mouse game that I wish I didn't have to play.
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06-22-2009, 12:58 PM	#26
Woody Crenshaw Info-Product Alchemist War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SC Posts: 310 Thanks: 15 Thanked 46 Times in 33 Posts Social Networking	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid Thanks for the clarification. I didn't think it was after reading about the difference between spyware and adware, but then I saw the TOS and wasn't sure. I also know of a current WSO that advertises itself as "BlueFart" and it basically just teaches CPV, which also made me wonder. I will definitely read the TOS of each network to make sure CPV can be used. Now the original topic can be continued....

06-22-2009, 01:40 PM	#27
jayman Active Warrior Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 52 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid Totally agree with PPV Coach. I hope there is a way that all the networks can check applicants and see if they have been blacklisted or banned elsewhere and there is no way this BlueFartter can get into any network. This is the reason people are buying accounts in so many forums and I can agree with networks that don't accept applicants from certain countries or part of the world. It's better to not spend so much resources dealing with frauds from applicants from these countries and concentrate on other things to improve the network. Do it the mafia way, if I don't know which house in the block you are living, I will burn down the whole block to get you This is for the benefit of all

06-22-2009, 02:00 PM	#28
brp002 HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 205 Thanks: 4 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Contact Info	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid I think the best thing you can do is make sure that you follow the terms of agreement. I mean learn the right way to earn money so you can make money all the time with out ever getting booted.
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06-22-2009, 02:08 PM	#29
TheFlash Going for the Top Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Greece Posts: 44 Thanks: 14 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid the truth is that many CPA networks simply LOVE not paying the affiliates who made a lot of money, and just keep all the money for themselves and sometimes the CPA networks just make up really stupid reasons for that, because of their greed

06-22-2009, 04:36 PM	#34
redicelander Viking Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Easter Island Posts: 419 Thanks: 9 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid When I first started CPA, I got into a certain network that isn't well-known (well, never even seen it mentioned here at all for one) fairly easily with just a quick approval. Now I just checked the application page for something, and perhaps they've been dealing with too much fraud or something as they have extremely stringent requirements now. Basically, they're only accepting new affiliates that have astronomical budgets. Even those probably making $5000/month, which many would consider a good salary in the offline world, will probably not get in to it.
	1. Are you using MEDIA BUYS? No? You should be --- START FOR UNDER $1000 -- NO JOKE!! 2. NEWBIES ONLY -- GET COACHING ON FREE TRAFFIC METHODS 3. Warrior Christmas Vacation: Luxury Hotels at the cheapest price, Budget Hotels at the Cheapest Price!

06-23-2009, 09:22 PM	#38
Am2m Warrior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 22 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid I'm new and have been researching CPA/CPL networks and its funny to me to login to this forum and find this as one of the first posts. I actually read a review last night that went something similar to: " JohnDoe Marketing took $5000 of my income right out of my pocket. Is it not stealing to withold money that I worked hard to do. How am I to control who fills in the offers posted on my website. Searcched the person's name to find numerous posts in forums, networking sites and similar that were all "I'll pay you $XY to complete a series of questions" I think some have lost all morals in their life.

06-24-2009, 11:18 PM	#39
World_Peace Warrior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid Well, we humans made the system and it is not impossible to overcome some one so called expert system or perfect system. Idea can change the world, a system does not stand a chance in front of it if the person know what he need and how to get it.

06-26-2009, 04:00 AM	#40
FasTrack-Eddie Banned Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 37 Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid Go coach !!! Go !!! Rah - Rah - Rah !!! Some just never learn. >wink<

10-25-2009, 11:42 PM	#43
chimeara27 Warrior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 22 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: WARNING: If you are cheating the system, you will be banned and not paid yeah definitely you'll get ban. i know a site banned by google.
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