PPV URL targeting help

18 replies
I'm hoping someone can please explain how PPV works with URL targeting.

Let's say I'm bidding on a URL like this:
domainx.com/orderform

Should I still be bidding on "domainx.com" as well? Or will these two targets conflict?

What really confuses me is that when I check my outbid report, I see the target (domainx.com/orderform), but then it says the Affecting Target is "orderform." Is it even reading the entire URL or is it reading the target as orderform?
#ppv #targeting #url
  • Profile picture of the author indexphp
    No, you should bid on a specific PAGE. The homepage is most likely going to get alot more untargeted traffic than an inner page (order link for example). Guess your question really depends on which network you're using... but as a rule of thumb, if you bid on the homepage, thats where your pops are gonna come from. If you bid on the orderform.php, thats where your pops are coming from.
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    • Profile picture of the author BobDolemite
      Originally Posted by indexphp View Post

      No, you should bid on a specific PAGE. The homepage is most likely going to get alot more untargeted traffic than an inner page (order link for example). Guess your question really depends on which network you're using... but as a rule of thumb, if you bid on the homepage, thats where your pops are gonna come from. If you bid on the orderform.php, thats where your pops are coming from.
      I'm using Media Traffic. Right now I'm bidding on both: the homepage and specific pages of one website. Am I doing this wrong? What I think might be happening is that the ad is popping on the homepage, and then it doesn't pop at the order page because of the frequency cap. But what really has me confused is why the Affecting Target shows up as orderform instead of domainx.com/orderform.

      And when I'm viewing the campaign, domainx.com/orderform has no competing bids (so it's 0.015), but in the outbid report, it says:

      Target: domainx.com/ordrerform - Affecting Target: orderform - Affecting CPV: a high price like 0.03.

      What's going on?
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  • Profile picture of the author indexphp
    I'm not all that familiar with MediaTraffic, but just contact them. I'm sure they have some sort of documentation. Worst case, delete the homepage bid... and just bid on the order form URL. Theres competition there because people are MAKING MONEY there
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    • Profile picture of the author BobDolemite
      Originally Posted by indexphp View Post

      I'm not all that familiar with MediaTraffic, but just contact them. I'm sure they have some sort of documentation. Worst case, delete the homepage bid... and just bid on the order form URL. Theres competition there because people are MAKING MONEY there
      That's just it though. When I'm viewing the campaign, the order form URL is priced at the minimum. But when I look at the outbid report, it singles out "orderform" from the full URL and the price is high. Meanwhile, the homepage prices are all high.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    It does not always show up when you input it, the bidding rate, that is. When you go to check it later it will show you whereas it will not show you always at first. I do not know why this is but that is what I have noticed as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author dealmaker007
    BobDolemite,

    The fact that somebody is bidding on the general target "orderform" and didn't specify a domain, means that they are also showing up for the people who land on domainx.com/orderform which is your preferred target, as well as any other website that has "orderform" in the url.

    Unfortunately because that competitor and others were lazy, this means you would have to beat that bid of $0.03 on the target "domainx.com/orderform" in order to show to those users instead of the other guy with loose targeting showing to them.

    Basically what that guy did is broad match his general term to your specific term so now you have to bid higher on your specific term to show for it. I know, it sucks .

    But do NOT bid on "orderform" however as this too general and will get you views from other websites unrelated to what you are selling...leading to your account being depleted very rapidly.

    And does the homepage also show up as an affecting url for your domainx.com/orderform target?

    If it does you would have to raise your bid for your domainx.com/orderform target to show for it, otherwise the guy who bid on the homepage might show for it.

    I hope that helps.

    In a few days I will be posting my results from some testing I am doing on mediatraffic that might shed some light into what is going on, but in short, just like the PPC engines have their click fraud, there is a certain amount of PPV fraud going on as well, which account managers and company reps are loathe to admit to, so you have to do your own investigation. Of course these networks will often blame your landing page or your offer, etc. but in reality if you are not testing and tracking and looking at the referring url's and investigating those to see if they are legit traffic sources, you won't even know that you're being hoodwinked. My first clue was that the majority of my visitors weren't even showing up in my third party stat tracking, but they were showing in my sever logs. When you notice something like that, watch out.

    If possible, look at your server logs, look at the referrers. And do you notice any patterns? When I bid on targets at mediatraffic, the "visitors" from that network just about never load the favicon...and it's hit or miss for them loading image files or javascript files (although the users' browsers do NOT have javascript disabled)....but legit, non-fraudulent traffic from other engines (ppc or organic), always do load these things...perhaps this is a marker for suspect activity?
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    • Profile picture of the author BobDolemite
      Thanks dealmaker007! Yes, since I posted this I've more or less come to understand how affecting targets work. Your post confirms what I thought, so thank you. What is a huge pain is the character limit on the URLs (I'm with MT, so I'm not sure about the others). As a result, I don't always know what the affecting targets are, so I have to put in extra targets just to check if there's an outbid.

      One of the reasons that I'm using MT is because they seem to have one of the better reputations for PPV. As someone who is not technically inclined (server logs? favicon? buh? the only tracking I'm using is T202), I am very curious about your report on click fraud.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheScalper
    Originally Posted by BobDolemite View Post

    Should I still be bidding on "domainx.com" as well? Or will these two targets conflict?
    You could try to bid only on the detailed page. But if you are bidding only on "domainx.com" the popup will also display when the user reaches the orderform (unless the ad frequency is capped when the user first enters at the domain level).

    But has anyone here infos about the URL matching on TrafficVance? Is their behaviour in url targeting like Mediatraffic?
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    • Profile picture of the author dealmaker007
      Originally Posted by TheScalper View Post

      You could try to bid only on the detailed page. But if you are bidding only on "domainx.com" the popup will also display when the user reaches the orderform (unless the ad frequency is capped when the user first enters at the domain level).

      But has anyone here infos about the URL matching on TrafficVance? Is their behaviour in url targeting like Mediatraffic?
      That is a good question TheScalper, I also wonder if there are differences in how ads are served, or whether one network is shady and sending you traffic via dubious sources and methods versus the other legitimately serving your ad the way they say they will.
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    • Profile picture of the author BobDolemite
      Originally Posted by TheScalper View Post

      You could try to bid only on the detailed page. But if you are bidding only on "domainx.com" the popup will also display when the user reaches the orderform (unless the ad frequency is capped when the user first enters at the domain level).

      But has anyone here infos about the URL matching on TrafficVance? Is their behaviour in url targeting like Mediatraffic?
      What I gather is that targeting both the homepage domain (domainx.com) and the more targeted URL (domainx.com/order/) can be harmful because of the frequency cap. I am ASSUMING that if I pop a user on domainx.com, then they won't get popped on domainx.com/order/ if they end up there within 12 hours (assuming a 1/12 frequency cap). As a result, I would be blocking myself from displaying when the user is in potential buy mode. If I am wrong about this and each target is treated separately, someone please correct me. I'm a newb, so I'd love to hear someone more experienced comment on this.
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      • Profile picture of the author dealmaker007
        Originally Posted by BobDolemite View Post

        What I gather is that targeting both the homepage domain (domainx.com) and the more targeted URL (domainx.com/order/) can be harmful because of the frequency cap. I am ASSUMING that if I pop a user on domainx.com, then they won't get popped on domainx.com/order/ if they end up there within 12 hours (assuming a 1/12 frequency cap). As a result, I would be blocking myself from displaying when the user is in potential buy mode. If I am wrong about this and each target is treated separately, someone please correct me. I'm a newb, so I'd love to hear someone more experienced comment on this.
        I would agree that you are right in your thinking in that example...because of the frequency cap, the user in question will only be shown one pop i.e. when they hit the homepage if you are bidding on both. Targeting the homepage will likely get you more traffic and lower conversion rates and targeting the order page will likely get you less traffic and higher conversion rates....only testing will tell you which one will result in an actual higher number of sales in a certain time frame though. As the bids may be different, look at the ROI but also consider the number of conversions you get, something that gives you worse ROI but more sales overall might not be such a bad thing depending on your margins.... I would test one at a time...you can inactivate one and keep the other active until you reach what you think is an acceptable sample size of traffic. Then switch.
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  • Profile picture of the author candoit2
    Since when did the warrior forum become a place where people openly discuss BH topics?
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    • Profile picture of the author dealmaker007
      Originally Posted by AaronJones View Post

      Since when did the warrior forum become a place where people openly discuss BH topics?

      I thought Mediatraffic was an ad network. Is CPV considered Black Hat? If so I won't mention it anymore.
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      • Profile picture of the author candoit2
        Originally Posted by dealmaker007 View Post

        I thought Mediatraffic was an ad network. Is CPV considered Black Hat? If so I won't mention it anymore.
        Targeting order pages and stuffing your cookie at the point of sale is BH.
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        • Profile picture of the author dealmaker007
          Originally Posted by AaronJones View Post

          Targeting order pages and stuffing your cookie at the point of sale is BH.
          If he's an affiliate of the site he's targeting, and he's overriding someone else's commission who was about to get that customer then I would agree, that is Black Hat.

          But sometimes people target related but noncompetitive offers, or a similar product from a different company/website, essentially giving the surfer a choice between offering A and offering B, where the price and terms/bonuses may be different. I had assumed that. I don't agree with stealing anybody's commissions, and if the prospect was about to buy from one guy and the pop via cookie stuffing or something forces the prospect to buy that same product from someone else when that wasn't what the prospect intended then obviously that's not ethical. I don't think he said that was the case specifically so maybe that's what should be clarified.
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          • Profile picture of the author candoit2
            Originally Posted by dealmaker007 View Post

            If he's an affiliate of the site he's targeting, and he's overriding someone else's commission who was about to get that customer then I would agree, that is Black Hat.

            But sometimes people target related but noncompetitive offers, or a similar product from a different company/website, essentially giving the surfer a choice between offering A and offering B, where the price and terms/bonuses may be different. I had assumed that. I don't agree with stealing anybody's commissions, and if the prospect was about to buy from one guy and the pop via cookie stuffing or something forces the prospect to buy that same product from someone else when that wasn't what the prospect intended then obviously that's not ethical. I don't think he said that was the case specifically so maybe that's what should be clarified.
            We cannot know the intention of the OP for wanting to know this info. That is not the point. The point is anyone reading this who would use it in a BH manner are being shown how.

            Aaron
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            • Profile picture of the author BobDolemite
              Whoa, whoa, I am not doing anything BH. The concept behind this is to simply catch users while they are in a specific mode (i.e. buying mode). As many have mentioned, you will likely have a lot of wasted views if you target the homepage. I thought this was a very common strategy for PPV. I'm just trying to make sure I'm setting up my campaign correctly.
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  • Profile picture of the author anwar001
    If you target urls and that too inner pages, will you get sufficient amount of traffic? I know the traffic is cheap and targeted and all that, but what about the volume of traffic you will receive?
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