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1st Class CPA Takes a Stand!

by bqpennell
49 replies
Okay, that's it -- we've had enough. Fraud is becoming an overwhelming and ridiculously large problem in this industry these days -- we all know that. But whose really willing to DO something about it, hm? Well, looking around, not many, save for ScrubKit.

But that's about to change. We here at 1st Class CPA are taking a stand. Fraudsters are everywhere and they're bringing this industry down to its knees. There is quite literally no network out there in the industry today who doesn't have fraud infecting its entire infrastructure. It's insane. And it's time someone takes a true stand against it. It's stealing, it's illegal and it's wrong. End of story!

So, in the hopes that there will be many more that follow in our footsteps, 1st Class CPA is making a promise. A promise that, starting TODAY, any and all affiliates who are caught knowingly sending fraudulent leads will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

If there's one thing I hate more than spending money on useless stuff, it's practically burning said money paying out fraud. It keeps me awake at night and pisses me off to no end. Any fraudsters who are caught trying to steal from us and our advertisers -- the very same ones that keep both us and our hard-working, honest publishers employed -- well, we'll take you to court. And we'll see it through to the end. You can count on that!

Yes, this will cost me some money out-of-pocket. But that's okay. Because the way I see it, I'm wasting money paying out these fraudsters anyway -- so why not risk a bit of my own money in the hopes of deterring them by prosecuting them to the fullest extent of the law? We'll see what happens. And, like I said, hopefully we'll be the first of many networks to implement this stipulation.

Here's to a clean and fraud-less Internet Marketing industry!

- 1st Class CPA Network
#1st #class #cpa #stand #takes
  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    I thought this way too when I had my own network. Fraud is crazy and I don't know how you guys deal with it daily without losing your mind. We spent 80% of our time JUST battling people who were trying to steal from us and our merchants daily.

    When you prosecute the first one, keep us posted.

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  • Profile picture of the author Mahmoud Selman
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMoney
    I hate.fraudsters they want to make money like is falling through the sky. Even though is not even that difficult getting good quality leads once you know how.wow theifss this dayss
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  • Profile picture of the author mtmjohn
    Affiliate fraud is a serious issue! Just do that Brian, and it'll be +1 for you and 1st Class CPA. Best of luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
    Really, you are going to prosecute them, file a criminal charge. I'd love if you actually did, but come on...

    I smell $#$&#$# here.

    Originally Posted by bqpennell View Post

    Okay, that's it -- we've had enough. Fraud is becoming an overwhelming and ridiculously large problem in this industry these days -- we all know that. But whose really willing to DO something about it, hm? Well, looking around, not many, save for ScrubKit.

    But that's about to change. We here at 1st Class CPA are taking a stand. Fraudsters are everywhere and they're bringing this industry down to its knees. There is quite literally no network out there in the industry today who doesn't have fraud infecting its entire infrastructure. It's insane. And it's time someone takes a true stand against it. It's stealing, it's illegal and it's wrong. End of story!

    So, in the hopes that there will be many more that follow in our footsteps, 1st Class CPA is making a promise. A promise that, starting TODAY, any and all affiliates who are caught knowingly sending fraudulent leads will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

    If there's one thing I hate more than spending money on useless stuff, it's practically burning said money paying out fraud. It keeps me awake at night and pisses me off to no end. Any fraudsters who are caught trying to steal from us and our advertisers -- the very same ones that keep both us and our hard-working, honest publishers employed -- well, we'll take you to court. And we'll see it through to the end. You can count on that!

    Yes, this will cost me some money out-of-pocket. But that's okay. Because the way I see it, I'm wasting money paying out these fraudsters anyway -- so why not risk a bit of my own money in the hopes of deterring them by prosecuting them to the fullest extent of the law? We'll see what happens. And, like I said, hopefully we'll be the first of many networks to implement this stipulation.

    Here's to a clean and fraud-less Internet Marketing industry!

    - 1st Class CPA Network
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    • Profile picture of the author bqpennell
      Originally Posted by pacelattin View Post

      Really, you are going to prosecute them, file a criminal charge. I'd love if you actually did, but come on...

      I smell $#$&#$# here.

      No BS here, we paid a publisher 3 months, all 3 months they made a nice amount, Here on 4th month we are informed it is credit card fraud, 1st shame on the advertiser for taking this long to notice, Second we sent out our standard your account terminated email with a new added message,

      Please note that we will be turning this over to our attorneys as we will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law on this matter. We have no room in our industry for Fraudulent affiliates and we need to take our part in cleaning it up.

      lol i got 6 emails from this dude hearing everything, his sister is sick, He needs money, He was at hospital with his sister so let a friend control his account.

      lol i actually felt bad for him, i defiantly did not feel like a member of the BAS organization lol

      Originally Posted by kirch View Post

      FRAUD of any nature should not be accepted..I appreciate 1stcalss CPA for the stand.
      I fully agree that affiliates who fraud the networks/advertisers should be banned/blacklisted to join all networks.But I think the main problem for downfall of CPA networks is not merely due to affiliate fraud (which may constitute only some 5% of the problem) but the greed of CPA networks ,non compliance of rules(FTC),law suits( for deceptive practices),high compensations to executives(I heard some networks are paying over $3.5 miilion PA for top executives),spending lavishly to promote the networks(Playboy Mansion parties !!) and 'fraud advertisers' who default (in millions)

      -How many of the Networks take the responsibility and pay affiliates even if the advertisers do not pay in time or pay the network at all?
      -What about the Networks who do shave or charge back leads fraudulently !
      -How many of the networks who ban 'fraud affiliates' really refund the earnings to the advertisers ??? I hope 1stclasscpa will post some proofs if they have refunded any !
      And i can post proof, Ask Brian from enyvus media when he had a issue if i did not refund the money, Or Dylan If we didn't mind them holding a 2k payment for late charge backs, I am proud to the fact that we are very trustworthy, And if ever a situation is brought up and advertiser ask for something back we make good.

      I pride my self on being two things, Honest even if it hurts me business wise, and trustworthy no matter what the cost.


      Originally Posted by HairyPoppins View Post

      Good for you. I don't know if you have the resources to take ever fraudster to court especially if they're an international affiliate but god bless you if you do or hell even if you try. What these people don't realize if they keep doing this then eventually everything is going to be screwed over and there won't be any industry.
      Wont need to worry to much, 1stclass has been around over a year and has learned a lot, We are no longer fresh and hungry for anybody, We have big changes coming up and we will be seeking only proven over time quality publishers.

      With the new restrictions that will be in placed, The Legal issue we will take, and the help of scrubkit to help rid these thief's, well to be frank any one after our move signs up with the intent to fraud is just down right stupid.


      Originally Posted by speedylikesKJ View Post

      Great to hear that No Doubt fraudsters are literally killing this industry. But hey just one question what about re-bill offers merchants steal too by Charging customers without letting them know ?


      P.S : I am not supporting fraudsters they should be sued but just a opinion that networks should come out of re-bill offers too.
      The FTC has that one ask Copeac which by the way chad from copeac now works at affiliate network so be careful they didn't leave there just hiding behind other doors.
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    • Profile picture of the author rowebil
      Originally Posted by pacelattin View Post

      Really, you are going to prosecute them, file a criminal charge. I'd love if you actually did, but come on...

      I smell $#$&#$# here.
      Agree. Much more better things to worry about then taking people to court.


      Originally Posted by pacelattin View Post


      One investigation lead to the arrest of a guy who threatened among other things, to kill me personally on another forum. He's now facing 10 years in jail for local charges and was just charged on federal charges related to the fraud.
      Haha! Nice.
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      • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
        Google Torq Cisek. When they raided his house based on my two year investigation, they caught him with illegal guns, a grenade launcher ... and about $500k in cash.

        Originally Posted by rowebil View Post

        Agree. Much more better things to worry about then taking people to court.




        Haha! Nice.
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  • Profile picture of the author HairyPoppins
    Good for you. I don't know if you have the resources to take ever fraudster to court especially if they're an international affiliate but god bless you if you do or hell even if you try. What these people don't realize if they keep doing this then eventually everything is going to be screwed over and there won't be any industry.
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  • Profile picture of the author MediaEncounterOmar
    Its so annoying when I have to deal with affiliate applications all with the same backstory about back to back. As if the first time wasn't enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kenster
    We have a great legal system compared to many out there but litigation is extremely expensive...hence why punitive damages are so important to deter illegal activity.

    So the problem is that litigation is costly in terms of time but it's normally INCREDIBLY expensive...especially if you chasing hundreds of different entities and individuals from who knows where.

    So that's the tough part.

    Made worse by the fact that much of the fraud is happening across country borders making real litigation next to impossible...or at least not even close to being worth it.


    With that said..


    I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you are taking a stand against all the garbage that goes on and taints our industry.

    It's really sad how people view the CPA industry but it's completely understandable because of the massive fraud that goes on.

    So be it through punitive action or whatever, I support your cause...cleaning up the industry starts one network at a time (and of course more can be done outside of just the networks)

    Would love to hear updates about what your network is actively doing as per your comments above!
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  • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
    I've covered fraud in this industry for years... and its not just bad, but there are guys who make millions and will do ANYTHING to protect it. I've had people threaten me physically for kicking them off networks...
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  • Profile picture of the author kirch
    FRAUD of any nature should not be accepted..I appreciate 1stcalss CPA for the stand.
    I fully agree that affiliates who fraud the networks/advertisers should be banned/blacklisted to join all networks.But I think the main problem for downfall of CPA networks is not merely due to affiliate fraud (which may constitute only some 5% of the problem) but the greed of CPA networks ,non compliance of rules(FTC),law suits( for deceptive practices),high compensations to executives(I heard some networks are paying over $3.5 miilion PA for top executives),spending lavishly to promote the networks(Playboy Mansion parties !!) and 'fraud advertisers' who default (in millions)

    -How many of the Networks take the responsibility and pay affiliates even if the advertisers do not pay in time or pay the network at all?
    -What about the Networks who do shave or charge back leads fraudulently !
    -How many of the networks who ban 'fraud affiliates' really refund the earnings to the advertisers ??? I hope 1stclasscpa will post some proofs if they have refunded any !
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  • Profile picture of the author zerofoxtrot
    What does fraud mean within this subject? Doing their own leads or something?
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  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    With attorneys costing 300 dollars/hour, it just doesnt pay to go after individuals, especially in other countries. If you do get a judgment, even in the USA, just try collecting it. Good luck with that

    Even with Napster and all that BS, the only thing that DID work was threats, of prosecution. Threaten people and make them settle out of court. Thats the cheapest and only way to make this a viable option
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    • Profile picture of the author bqpennell
      Originally Posted by outwest View Post

      With attorneys costing 300 dollars/hour, it just doesnt pay to go after individuals, especially in other countries. If you do get a judgment, even in the USA, just try collecting it. Good luck with that

      Even with Napster and all that BS, the only thing that DID work was threats, of prosecution. Threaten people and make them settle out of court. Thats the cheapest and only way to make this a viable option
      My attorney is not 300 bucks a hour i assure you this, Your missing the main picture they will have to get a lawyer as well or lose the case cause anyone who is defrauding a network only means they are not smart enough to promote there self so how will they represent them self.

      There all good when they take from the advertisers pocket, but take from theirs and look out.

      Networks do 2 or 3 of these and word gets out i don't think many fraudulent publishers will want to sign up to that network and that would be fine by me.
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      • Profile picture of the author outwest
        Originally Posted by bqpennell View Post

        My attorney is not 300 bucks a hour i assure you this, Your missing the main picture they will have to get a lawyer as well or lose the case cause anyone who is defrauding a network only means they are not smart enough to promote there self so how will they represent them self.

        There all good when they take from the advertisers pocket, but take from theirs and look out.

        Networks do 2 or 3 of these and word gets out i don't think many fraudulent publishers will want to sign up to that network and that would be fine by me.
        my point is if you win every case, lets assume you do, even a 100 dollar per hour attorney will cost you more than you will collect. Just my prediction. Could be wrong

        what eats up money is attorneys who drag it out in the courts
        no matter what you "win" in a judgment, what good is it if the attorney fees eat you alive

        There was a famous divorce in New York City the couple was worth like 10 million to 20 million, very hotly contested dragged out in court
        by the time the trial and all the BS was finished, all the appeals, etc, there was zero money left. guess who got it all? Yup , the attorneys
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        • Profile picture of the author MakeMoneyJames
          Originally Posted by outwest View Post

          my point is if you win every case, lets assume you do, even a 100 dollar per hour attorney will cost you more than you will collect. Just my prediction. Could be wrong
          I think hes doing it mainly to discourage fraudsters on his network. not so much to collect the money.. could be wrong, but it makes more sense then taking every fraudster to court and expecting to collect
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          • Profile picture of the author bqpennell
            Originally Posted by MakeMoneyJames View Post

            I think hes doing it mainly to discourage fraudsters on his network. not so much to collect the money.. could be wrong, but it makes more sense then taking every fraudster to court and expecting to collect

            this exactly, I mean lets be real when someone gets blocked for fraud i really love the emails why is my account closed before we started sending out emails to inform them, Which i think it is pointless because fraudsters know what they are doing and know why they been blocked.

            So as money said the point here is say we do 2 to 3 of these and win, chances are fraudulent affiliates will not even attempt to join our network, so if i have to pay a few grand to protect from paying a few grand to thief's it will balance out in the long run
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  • Profile picture of the author AdWorkMedia
    At AdWorkMedia.com, we have already taken a stand against fraud! We created a FREE PROXY tool for all to use with their campaigns.

    Check out the tool at IPqualityScore.com , We offer it completely free! While others charge for the same technology!
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  • Profile picture of the author outwest
    i sure hope it works
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  • Profile picture of the author Talha AboveMax
    Best of luck my friend and I appreciate it
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    • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
      Coming from the "First offshore Affilaite Network?"


      Originally Posted by AboveMax View Post

      Best of luck my friend and I appreciate it
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      • Profile picture of the author Talha AboveMax
        Originally Posted by pacelattin View Post

        Coming from the "First offshore Affilaite Network?"
        Yup
        Good things are good no matter what.

        Ahmed
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      • Profile picture of the author bigbrian
        Originally Posted by pacelattin View Post

        Coming from the "First offshore Affilaite Network?"
        Offshore? Tracking platform appears to be HasOffers and HasOffers' servers reside in the US. How is that considered offshore? MegaUpload thought they were offshore as well however their content was hosted on US servers. You seen what happened to their "offshore" business - right? Buckle up for safety kids!

        Brian
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        • Profile picture of the author kirch
          Originally Posted by bigbrian View Post

          Offshore? Tracking platform appears to be HasOffers and HasOffers' servers reside in the US. How is that considered offshore? MegaUpload thought they were offshore as well however their content was hosted on US servers. You seen what happened to their "offshore" business - right? Buckle up for safety kids!

          Brian
          May be they consider themselves 'offshore' for tax purposes !


          Offshore ≠ Illegal .
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        • Profile picture of the author Talha AboveMax
          Originally Posted by bigbrian View Post

          Offshore? Tracking platform appears to be HasOffers and HasOffers' servers reside in the US. How is that considered offshore? MegaUpload thought they were offshore as well however their content was hosted on US servers. You seen what happened to their "offshore" business - right? Buckle up for safety kids!

          Brian
          Brian,

          We are not "offshore" in that we are purely based overseas although half our ownership is located in Pakistan. In the WarriorForum, you will hear over and over again about the importance of niche marketing, which essentially translates to specialization on the internet. Most networks will not allow offshore publishers from various countries for the aforementioned fraud reasons. We accept publishers from these locations and hence are an "offshore network" and to my current knowledge, the first of its kind. We are not trying to evade the government and taxes, rather are simply trying to provide a home for many of the honest publishers in these countries who have choice (and yes there are honest publishers in these countries as well).

          I sympathize with bqpennell and obviously fraud is a huge part of managing a network. Saying that 80% of time is spent addressing fraud is probably conservative in my opinion.

          In my personal opinion though, I don't believe this will reduce your time burden spent on dealing with fraudulent publishers. I think one thing that has helped us personally is to remove types of offers which are most susceptible to fraud. That is a huge part of the reason we are able to allow offshore publishers as they simply cannot process these offers with us. We have also worked with several of the top CPA networks to implement some additional anti-fraud tools. It's not perfect but it has helped us reduce our instances of fraud. I'm sure if you look at the 80-20 rule, you'll find that 20% of your offers have 80% of the fraud.
          In any case, good luck and I'd love to hear about some positive changes in the industry in this matter, however they are achieved.
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          • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
            That's not exactly reassuring.

            Originally Posted by AboveMax View Post

            Brian,

            We are not "offshore" in that we are purely based overseas although half our ownership is located in Pakistan. .
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            • Profile picture of the author Talha AboveMax
              Originally Posted by pacelattin View Post

              That's not exactly reassuring.

              That's little more than Xenophobia and to be honest, not worth a response. Our business is about generating income for our publishers and advertisers, not dealing with country stereotypes
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              • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
                Red-herring, basically calling me a bigot instead of dealing with the issue. Nice.

                Originally Posted by AboveMax View Post

                That's little more than Xenophobia and to be honest, not worth a response. Our business is about generating income for our publishers and advertisers, not dealing with country stereotypes
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                • Profile picture of the author Talha AboveMax
                  If you are suggesting there is another issue, it has not been clearly stated. Whatever you are suggesting was not properly communicated. In any case, our issues get worked out with our publishers and advertisers, not with competing networks.


                  Originally Posted by pacelattin View Post

                  Red-herring, basically calling me a bigot instead of dealing with the issue. Nice.
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          • Profile picture of the author jayman
            Originally Posted by AboveMax View Post

            Brian,

            We are not “offshore” in that we are purely based overseas although half our ownership is located in Pakistan.
            Stereotyping or not, you can't blame us and it's a smart thing to be careful when dealing with this.
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            • Profile picture of the author bigbrian
              @AboveMax - From what you explained it sounds like you work with international publishers. It would probably be easier for affiliates (and the industry) to understand if you coined yourself an international network. Labeling yourself an offshore network implies that the company/network is offshore - at least from how you are advertising it does. To be honest you are probably confusing people my man, because you definitely confused me.

              Another question that comes to mind... There are definitely other networks that work with international publishers so how are you the first?



              Brian
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              • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
                Brian,

                Scrubkit, never heard of it

                Originally Posted by bigbrian View Post

                @AboveMax - From what you explained it sounds like you work with international publishers. It would probably be easier for affiliates (and the industry) to understand if you coined yourself an international network. Labeling yourself an offshore network implies that the company/network is offshore - at least from how you are advertising it does. To be honest you are probably confusing people my man, because you definitely confused me.

                As far as fraud goes... We kick fraud right smack in the ass! We own ScrubKit.com. ScrubKit is the most robust and innovative fraud and risk management system available. Nobody else comes close to our user interface. We say "buuuh byeeee" to fraud!

                Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
    As a note, I have had at least half a dozen of my clients of my compliance business sue people and file criminal charges.

    One investigation lead to the arrest of a guy who threatened among other things, to kill me personally on another forum. He's now facing 10 years in jail for local charges and was just charged on federal charges related to the fraud.
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  • Profile picture of the author Damien Roche
    How about making an additional promise that all your advertisers will not scrub leads?
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    • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
      I just spit out my champagne. GENIUS.

      Originally Posted by Damien Roche View Post

      How about making an additional promise that all your advertisers will not scrub leads?
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    • Profile picture of the author bqpennell
      Originally Posted by Damien Roche View Post

      How about making an additional promise that all your advertisers will not scrub leads?
      I can promise our side does not scrub leads, useless and no different then people who knowingly send fraud, With that said i can not promise you what happens on the advertiser's side and anyone who does is full of it.
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      • Profile picture of the author kirch
        Originally Posted by bqpennell View Post

        I can promise our side does not scrub leads, useless and no different then people who knowingly send fraud, With that said i can not promise you what happens on the advertiser's side and anyone who does is full of it.
        You have not listed your contact number or address on the site.Not even info about the networks owners or business name.
        BTW,Where do you operate from? Starbucks ? Nigeria???


        How can the affiliates who are with your network can be sure that you will not runaway with their earnings ?
        You have your affiliates contact info and you can sue if they fraud you.But what if affiliates want to ? I hope they at-least know your real name !

        Practice before your preach !
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  • Profile picture of the author HairyPoppins
    Sued anyone yet?
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    • Profile picture of the author bqpennell
      Originally Posted by HairyPoppins View Post

      Sued anyone yet?
      Considering this post is only 5 days old and it is Sunday no, However if you are that anxious to see if we are serious may i encourage you to sign up and send fraud

      Originally Posted by kirch View Post

      You have not listed your contact number or address on the site.Not even info about the networks owners or business name.
      BTW,Where do you operate from? Starbucks ? Nigeria???


      How can the affiliates who are with your network can be sure that you will not runaway with their earnings ?
      You have your affiliates contact info and you can sue if they fraud you.But what if affiliates want to ? I hope they at-least know your real name !

      Practice before your preach !

      Maybe you should learn to look better because our address is listed right on the privacy Page, And our number is available once approved. We have never ignored a email unless it is from a fraudulent publisher that was already given reason why they was blocked. There is noting inquiring affiliates can not take care via email or AIM. Phone contact is only available to affiliates and for application interview.

      Also before making replies like this learn to whois a domain, heck my home address is on there. However that is not our phone Number. I don't know who's phone number that is.

      So before you tell me to practice before i preach how about you learn to look better and learn some simple web knowledge before you try to act like a star.

      Here bookmark this http://www.whois.sc/ before making a fool of your self next time

      Edit: oh and for the no contact info remark, Sure there is we have on numerous pages contact us at support@1ccpa.com as well as a contact us page.

      Also considering we been up and running since 2010 and we still get nothing but good reviews is clear sign we are not running with anyones payment. We Have been paying people for a while as i find it more profitable making money over the course of many months instead of a quick hit it and quit it approach.
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  • Profile picture of the author mayan21
    its not only publishers who steal ur money, sometimes cpa networks steal publishers leads is well
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  • Profile picture of the author socialcatalog
    Will this consider as fraud if i Hire some free lancer to get me leads ? Sorry it may be off topic but related to fraud . because i have seen many tasks on freelancers for Leads . This will help me
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    • Profile picture of the author mtmjohn
      Originally Posted by socialcatalog View Post

      Will this consider as fraud if i Hire some free lancer to get me leads ? Sorry it may be off topic but related to fraud . because i have seen many tasks on freelancers for Leads . This will help me
      Don't use this kind of service unless you want to risk getting your cpa network account banned.

      For more info:

      http://www.warriorforum.com/ad-netwo...-services.html

      Hope it helps
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    • Profile picture of the author bqpennell
      Originally Posted by socialcatalog View Post

      Will this consider as fraud if i Hire some free lancer to get me leads ? Sorry it may be off topic but related to fraud . because i have seen many tasks on freelancers for Leads . This will help me
      There traffic is trash, trust me if they was actually any good why would they get you leads to a sign up site that pays $4.00 for $1.00. If they was actually sending quality traffic wouldn't they just sign up them self and make $3.00 more?

      they get you many leads, you pay them, later you get banned for poor trafic
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    • Profile picture of the author MakeMoneyJames
      Originally Posted by socialcatalog View Post

      Will this consider as fraud if i Hire some free lancer to get me leads ? Sorry it may be off topic but related to fraud . because i have seen many tasks on freelancers for Leads . This will help me
      you can hire a freelancer to do your traffic generation (like ppc/ppv/cpm buys).
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  • Profile picture of the author madzstar
    S how do u plan to catch all these fraudes, fakes, scammers and spammers?
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    • Profile picture of the author bqpennell
      Originally Posted by madzstar View Post

      S how do u plan to catch all these fraudes, fakes, scammers and spammers?
      We use Scrubkit and ProxyDeter, they do most the work, But then some are just down right obvious,

      However we are not expecting to many problems in the future due to our new restrictions, any one who sends fraud and still applies to our network has to be down right stupid, We have put restrictions in place that will only attract quality pubs because the fraudulent ones will see from our pub page they will never make it to payday. So unless they just want to waste time we shouldn't be to worried.
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