Angelas / Pauls Backlinks - An Invitation

[LookItsMeTerryG]

Alright guys, I just can't take it anymore. Through my "Ask the SEO Guy Anything!" thread I've gotten more questions than I can handle re: Angelas backlinks etc.

While these products are a great value, we need to realize that they aren't the be-all-end-all of your link building efforts. I've gotten SO many questions from people that can't seem to rank for their terms despite using the highly revered backlink packets.. when I answer their questions and offer advice they're always incredulous, claiming "but I'm using Angelas! Every marketer on the entire website says they work for every type of website every time"....

THEY DON'T.

And to illustrate that point, I invite any and all of you to provide me with a case study/example of a site that's ranked with these packets alone for a competitive keyword or keyphrase. (no goarticles or similar, I want a root domain or subpage).

Now, before the flaming begins, remember, I'm not knocking the products, I said they're a GREAT VALUE. I'm just saying they should be used in conjunction with other, STANDARD link building practices.

[GuerrillaIM]

Recently everyone talks about the links PR value as the root domain value. All this tells you is that the link comes from a good neighbourhood. Most times when you get a link out of the packet the actual page it rests on is a page rank 0 so it doesn't pass on too much link juice.

Getting a handful of index page links from page rank 4 sites is usually better than getting hundreds of PR 0 links (regardless of root domains PR, unless your page is linked to from an internal page with high PR).

To get the best out of the profile page style backlinking you need to build backlinks to your backlinks.

[LookItsMeTerryG]

Originally Posted by GuerrillaIM

To get the best out of the profile page style backlinking you need to build backlinks to your backlinks.

Yeah! And while this does work... it's time consuming. Why not spend the same amount of time going after authority sites and highly relevant, trusted sites to get links from? I GUARANTEE that you'll have better results.

[pheonix44]

Yeah! And while this does work... it's time consuming. Why not spend the same amount of time going after authority sites and highly relevant, trusted sites to get links from? I GUARANTEE that you'll have better results.

It is not this easy.Those sites will offer you the same problems.

[LookItsMeTerryG]

Originally Posted by pheonix44

It is not this easy.Those sites will offer you the same problems.

Are you sure? I strongly disagree.

[Jason_V]

Originally Posted by LookItsMeTerryG

And to illustrate that point, I invite any and all of you to provide me with a case study/example of a site that's ranked with these packets alone for a competitive keyword or keyphrase. (no goarticles or similar, I want a root domain or subpage).

Now, before the flaming begins, remember, I'm not knocking the products, I said they're a GREAT VALUE. I'm just saying they should be used in conjunction with other, STANDARD link building practices.

So, let me get this straight. You want someone who busted their ass building links to their root domain, which probably has carefully chosen keyword content on it to come in here and "prove" to you that it works?

Just so there is no misunderstanding, this is what you want. You want someone to come on this thread and list the following:

• Their root domain (Which probably has carefully chosen keyword content)
• Their rankings for keywords that they busted their ass building backlinks to?

To prove a point to someone who they have no obligation to prove anything to?

If you're being serious, all I can say is oh, man, and I thought the Allen Says give me my $400 or your dead thread was a knee slapper.

[LookItsMeTerryG]

So let me get this straight, you're going to ridicule me because I'm asking for a legitimate testimonial from ANYONE (even the product creator) to prove that a product that's being sold to several of the members here is actually effective for anything other than leveraging an existing sites strength and trust?

[Mike Linley]

Sent you a PM with proof...check it out...they definitely do work..#2 in google with about 40 million in competing sites and that is without quotes for competition and ranking #...keyword has about 50,000 in traffic...not to mention dozens of other #1 rankings for easier keywords and even moderately competitive keywords!...they do work!..it may take time but they work!

[LookItsMeTerryG]

Yep, Mike I got it and I responded. Thanks for the info.

Guys, there's no reason to get angry. I'm not knocking the product, I'm just trying to show people they need more than this.. Even the example that was given to me used several of these together.

[adam westrop]

I admit that these links arent the end all of your linking efforts. However they help a great deal.

With regards to page PR, I dont think there is much of a difference between it and domain PR, and I think Google has got wise to page PR a long time ago. I done a test recently for two sites. 1 i built with 100 links from dofollow blog comments from PR3-7 pages (with little outbound links) and the other, I built 50 of Angelas links and the site with Angelas links ranked better and I checked to ensure all the links on both sides were picked up and they were!

Now I know you will all start shouting how do follow blog comments are useless, and yes I know for the most part they are.... However for the average webmaster, this is the primary way they look to gain page PR links.

Domain PR means more to me then page PR. I have seen countless big sites rank on 1st page Google for competitive terms, and after analysing their links, none of them had PR, and the page PR of the ranking page was always low at around 4/5.

I do agree that you need a versatile linking strategy, however these links are some of the best you will obtain. Without a doubt.

Adam

[GuerrillaIM]

It's true that recently big G seems to like these PR 0 links from pages whose root domain is high PR. However I still see sites ranking on extrememly competitive terms with just a handful of backlinks and each of those backlinks is on a page from a related site with a fairly high PR.

I think this is because of the steps they are making to stop link spam. It's all about getting links from "good neighbourhoods"

[Jason_V]

Originally Posted by LookItsMeTerryG

So let me get this straight, you're going to ridicule me because I'm asking for a legitimate testimonial from ANYONE (even the product creator) to prove that a product that's being sold to several of the members here is actually effective for anything other than leveraging an existing sites strength and trust?

I wasn't ridiculing you at all. I was just trying to prove a point that if you don't get what you ask for, don't be surprised. In all actuality, this type of thread doesn't even belong in the main forum anyway. It's better suited to the product review section, or in their WSO thread. Just a F.Y.I.

[LookItsMeTerryG]

Originally Posted by Jason_V

I wasn't ridiculing you at all. I was just trying to prove a point that if you don't get what you ask for, don't be surprised. In all actuality, this type of thread doesn't even belong in the main forum anyway. It's better suited to the product review section, or in their WSO thread. Just a F.Y.I.

Ok, thanks for clearing it up. People have a way on this forum of trying to make others look like an ass.

I apologize for the miscategorization of the thread, how can I move it?

[Tom Brite]

Fantastic Point....

Personally i totally reccomend finding your own backlinks sources too. You can't just rely on what someone gives to you as your main source either.

Thanks for pointing this out to people

Tom Brite

[debra]

When backlinking, it's all about relevancy and market reach.

Contrary to popular believe PR linking is not the golden key by itself. I don't create my linking strategy according to PR juice. Fact is...I don't even actively concider it in my plan.

I have sites that updated to a PR2 and better. With only one or two links to them. Two weeks ago they were new sites and carried a PR0.

The difference...a relative and logical link that increased my market reach.

I target my demographics to bring in the traffic.

[Zeus66]

A lot depends on competition for a given keyword. That's what's missing from this discussion. If you target KW's that get high search volumes and don't have a ton of competition, I know for a fact that you can rank nicely with nothing more than A&P's link packets. It might takes a few months' worth, but it happens. I'm not nearly stupid enough to post the niche or the KW's, but suffice to say if you really know what you're doing when you research KW's, the rest of this is blah blah blah.

John

[tommygadget]

Originally Posted by Zeus66

A lot depends on competition for a given keyword. That's what's missing from this discussion. If you target KW's that get high search volumes and don't have a ton of competition, I know for a fact that you can rank nicely with nothing more than A&P's link packets. It might takes a few months' worth, but it happens. I'm not nearly stupid enough to post the niche or the KW's, but suffice to say if you really know what you're doing when you research KW's, the rest of this is blah blah blah.

John

I'll second that. I know a couple of things about keyword research and niches Finding good ones takes skill, patience, a little luck, a little insight/intuition and a lot of leg work.

TomG.

Originally Posted by Jason_V

So, let me get this straight. You want someone who busted their ass building links to their root domain, which probably has carefully chosen keyword content on it to come in here and "prove" to you that it works?

Just so there is no misunderstanding, this is what you want. You want someone to come on this thread and list the following:

• Their root domain (Which probably has carefully chosen keyword content)
• Their rankings for keywords that they busted their ass building backlinks to?

To prove a point to someone who they have no obligation to prove anything to?

If you're being serious, all I can say is oh, man, and I thought the Allen Says give me my $400 or your dead thread was a knee slapper.

Yeah while we are at it why not write a ebook with all our secrets which will include the domain names, the link building tactics, the keywords used, places you are getting traffic from, and etc .. for each domain name and then give the ebook away for free....

While we are at it we could also write "MORON" on our foreheads for doing such stupid things as writting an ebook with all that info and giving it away..

Not knocking the OP but Get Real!!!

James

[InternetMarketingIQ]

There is nothing wrong with Angela's packets.

The reality is that you must build links and they are as good as anything.

However Angela is NOT an SEO expert. She is an EXPERT at placing links. SEO is much more than just linking.

She ranks #2 for "Angela"... but that is a non competitive term. Just type it in to Google and do you see any advertisers? NO! So it's much easier to rank.

Noobs think the numbers they see when they type a phrase into Google are the "Competition". Not true. They are just occurrences of the words in the phrase on a page. If you put the phrase in quotes you get a lower number of results of pages that display the exact number of pages with the exact phrase.

But that is not your competition either. To get a better idea of competition you use Fabian Lims analysis with the allintitle command. These are people who are most likely trying to rank for the keywords.

Using Angela's links forces people to take action so that is a good thing. But because so many people using them do not truly understand SEO they are posting terrible profiles and useless comments. And yes many of the sites catch on quickly and they remove the links.

That's the game.

SEO is a big topic that is misunderstood and there are few "experts". Aaron Walls seems to be pretty good and there are a handful of others.

But there are so many factors. Google changed it's Algorithm 450 times in 2008!

They don't just look at links and anchor text. Once you get above 1,000 or so real competitors other factors come into play.

Factors like:

Time on site
Age of Domain
Directory Listings...

Google is tracking user behaviors with personal cookies as well.

Just load up Google Anaylitics. Now look at what they are tracking:

You have ratios between Direct Traffic, Organic Traffic, Paid Traffic. Google knows which search engine was used to find your page. They know the keywords used. They know how long a person stays on a page and if they go to another page. There are bounce rates, seasonal information, etc.

They can take this data and apply it to an entire industry or to a little niche. They could filter on a 1,000 different criteria. Things you have no control over.

This is why Matt Cutts is continually saying create good content. When people find what they want on your site, when they stick around, when the user experience is good you will be rewarded.

So backlinks absolutely matter. But if you think all you have to do is pick a keyword phrase and then go make links on other people sites and you will magically rank and make huge money. Well... then you are going to be disappointed with your $5 investment.

I've been doing SEO for years, like many others here. And it's an ongoing battle. The Tips and Tricks that may work for you now could stop working tomorrow.

You need to treat your site like a business.

And to those of you who are focusing on just one or two keyword phrases. That's great. But if you don't have the content to back it up it doesn't matter.

I have a site that pulls thousands of visitors each month... and less than 100 ever enter through the homepage.

Good luck!

[sevenish]

I'm subscribed to Angela's Backlinks and am quite happy. I use it amongst a comprehensive SEO strategy for not only my own sites but for clients as well.

I never was led to believe that it was a "be-all-end-all" solution. It does what it says it will do if used properly. Damned good service in my opinion. One of many quality tools in my tool shed.

[GuerrillaIM]

This website gives a fairly good explanation of how the toolbar pr value is calculated - Pagerank Explained. Google's PageRank and how to make the most of it.

The toolbar value doesn't have anything to do with ranking, it's just an indication of the amount of incoming links, and the weight of the incoing links.

For instance 1 PR 6 link could ake you a PR 4 instantly. You could go get 1000 PR 0 links and end up PR 3.

Google only updates the toolbar value around every 3 months but they update the serps on a much ore regular basis.

If your toolbar shows a lower PR than you should have based on the links then this can be an indiction that google has disregarded many of your links or thinks you are doing soething wrong onpage like selling links.

[ChrisBa]

They are a good addition to any SEO project, however there is much more to it than them

[altesino]

Originally Posted by sevenish

I'm subscribed to Angela's Backlinks and am quite happy. I use it amongst a comprehensive SEO strategy for not only my own sites but for clients as well.

I never was led to believe that it was a "be-all-end-all" solution. It does what it says it will do if used properly. Damned good service in my opinion. One of many quality tools in my tool shed.

I completely agree. Everyone is looking for the easy 1-2-3 approach which includes a simple 1-2-3 for backlinking.

Good backlinking plans and in part of a larger picture SEO requires multiple tools and strategies.

[Joe118]

Actually Angela has already demonstrated that she ranks 2nd for the keyword "Angela" with around 75m "competing" pages. Pretty good in my book.

angela - Google Search

Now I don't know if she *only* used back links she put into her packets. So in that respect it might not be a valid example of your request.

In any case, its clear that these sort of back links do work, and that's a fact. It might be getting *more difficult* for people to rank with the exact set of links that she's putting out in each packet, because of overuse and drawing attention from google, but the verdict on that is still out.

And I know that its not a really competitive term and that not all 75m pages are even trying to rank for the search term "angela". Save your breath. The point of this post is that IMHO the request that LookItsMeTerryG has posed is already satisfied.

Originally Posted by LookItsMeTerryG

So let me get this straight, you're going to ridicule me because I'm asking for a legitimate testimonial from ANYONE (even the product creator) to prove that a product that's being sold to several of the members here is actually effective for anything other than leveraging an existing sites strength and trust?

[GuerrillaIM]

I went to check the backlinks but couldn't find her site on that link. I'm probably looking at wrong datacentre

[Joe118]

Her link is

angelasdiscountmarket.com/angela.html

[GuerrillaIM]

Yahoo records 3,000 links to that page.

[LookItsMeTerryG]

Most of those 3k links are blog comments and articles: link:http://angelasdiscountmarket.com/angela.html -site:angelasdiscountmarket.com - Yahoo! Search Results

[kaizen0909]

Terry, how about this!

My new business goes live next month (website anyway!) I started using Angelas back links yesterday and prior to this I have had 8 backlinks I generated myself through organic forum posting (member of a number of forums I pre-launched the site on).

The business is primarily offline but there will be a heavy focus on some hard to crack search terms (business cards, Leaflet printing etc etc)

My site only has a homepage with a contact form and a link to a very underused blog.

My plan of attack is as follows:
Create 10-20 articles and get them on ezine articles now (for 7 day later publication)
Rewrite 40% of these articles 3 times and placing them on other article sites.
Using angelas back links I will backlink all other articles to the main ezine article, and to my root domain.

So every one of Angelas packets will go to root domain + ezine article.

Following this project Iwill be adding web 2.0 links in the form of squidoo etc but this should be a true enough test for a competitive market.

I, get the assitance of fellow marketers and you all get a real live test.

Plus I'll note everything I do, so that newbies can follwo it step by step (if it works)

Soun ok?

[LookItsMeTerryG]

Originally Posted by kaizen0909

Terry, how about this!

My new business goes live next month (website anyway!) I started using Angelas back links yesterday and prior to this I have had 8 backlinks I generated myself through organic forum posting (member of a number of forums I pre-launched the site on).

The business is primarily offline but there will be a heavy focus on some hard to crack search terms (business cards, Leaflet printing etc etc)

My site only has a homepage with a contact form and a link to a very underused blog.

My plan of attack is as follows:
Create 10-20 articles and get them on ezine articles now (for 7 day later publication)
Rewrite 40% of these articles 3 times and placing them on other article sites.
Using angelas back links I will backlink all other articles to the main ezine article, and to my root domain.

So every one of Angelas packets will go to root domain + ezine article.

Following this project Iwill be adding web 2.0 links in the form of squidoo etc but this should be a true enough test for a competitive market.

I, get the assitance of fellow marketers and you all get a real live test.

Plus I'll note everything I do, so that newbies can follwo it step by step (if it works)

Soun ok?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "I, get the assistance of fellow marketers"...

[kaizen0909]

well you'll certainly tell me if I'm not doing it right!

[LookItsMeTerryG]

Originally Posted by kaizen0909

well you'll certainly tell me if I'm not doing it right!

Well, the question here is about Angelas, not squidoo or article marketing. So, if the test is to be accurate, follow her instructions only!

[cctravis]

Well I know they are just great information resources for a affordable rate. I think both Paul and Angela provide services that are a great help to the SEO puzzle. Combine there links with article marketing, on page optimization, good content and you will rank well. Sometimes for low competition keywords I have ranked first page overnight with just these links.

[dualdtmz]

Originally Posted by kaizen0909

Terry, how about this!

My new business goes live next month (website anyway!) I started using Angelas back links yesterday and prior to this I have had 8 backlinks I generated myself through organic forum posting (member of a number of forums I pre-launched the site on).

The business is primarily offline but there will be a heavy focus on some hard to crack search terms (business cards, Leaflet printing etc etc)

My site only has a homepage with a contact form and a link to a very underused blog.

My plan of attack is as follows:
Create 10-20 articles and get them on ezine articles now (for 7 day later publication)
Rewrite 40% of these articles 3 times and placing them on other article sites.
Using angelas back links I will backlink all other articles to the main ezine article, and to my root domain.

So every one of Angelas packets will go to root domain + ezine article.

Following this project Iwill be adding web 2.0 links in the form of squidoo etc but this should be a true enough test for a competitive market.

I, get the assitance of fellow marketers and you all get a real live test.

Plus I'll note everything I do, so that newbies can follwo it step by step (if it works)

Soun ok?

lol...looks like it didn't work

[4morereferrals]

Curious as to whats wrong with ranking an article at a solid #2-4 for ...uhhh forever ? I think Angela is a product of her product. Maybe Im way off base but ...backlinks is a decently competitive term. The links seem to be passing some decent juice cumulatively as her article has PR as well [ as I recall ] and so does her Angela from aber wtf-ever ... domain.

Agree - not the end all be all.

But to infer you cant rank a site with them seems kinda odd when she's done it for you.

Why isnt ranking the article worthy of merit?

Lots of goarticle out there that never even sniff page one of google - so she cant be getting tooo tooo much boost off go's trustrank - can she?

Not trying ot be an Angela apostle and sometimes I too chuckle at the Pavlovian response to most new warrior queries about who's links ... but still.

This shouldget good - fast .... Hold on Im melting some butter in the micro for the popcorn!

Originally Posted by LookItsMeTerryG

So let me get this straight, you're going to ridicule me because I'm asking for a legitimate testimonial from ANYONE (even the product creator) to prove that a product that's being sold to several of the members here is actually effective for anything other than leveraging an existing sites strength and trust?

[dualdtmz]

lol @ Steve for the popcorn...but you have a valid point. but the reason i think this thread is hilarious is because someone posted a reply about how they were going to do this and that and yada yada and prove it works and so forth from wayyyy back in august...and they never said anything about it again and its march now, which by now they would have had some results, im sure you can agree with that. but yet there is no update on their "experiment" so the only i can say is...i guess it didnt work for them. funny

oh and it looks like they were targeting "cheap business cards" on a goarticle and its nowhere to be found in the first 20 pages, i quit looking after the 20th page.

[Daniel7rusu]

Is this thread still alive? I havent heard anything from terryg in a long time. But ya kaizen's sites are nowhere to be found.

[jazbo]

Come on guys, couldnt you spot this a mile off months ago?

LIMTG appears, starts a thread saying "Im an SEO guru ask me anything" the desperate jump with basic questions, terry answers, and gets instant "guru" status.

HE/she then launches a relevant WSO (check the sig) which has evidently bombed, so he/she disappears.

He/she is probably amonsgt us now under another name reinventing themselves already.

[4morereferrals]

Ohhhh damn!!!

Dualdtmz!! u got me. I fell for the old - ancient thread ressurrection bait .... trick.

I didnt even notice - duoh! and I know better too.

and btw - the search term angela is a bad axample for or against her links working or not working - but the backlinks one is a bit better to discuss imho.

Ok im outta here.

Dualdtmx - got my eyes on you bro! LOL [ i fell for it hook line n sinker! ]

Originally Posted by Daniel7rusu

Is this thread still alive? I havent heard anything from terryg in a long time. But ya kaizen's sites are nowhere to be found.

[jury]

Originally Posted by LookItsMeTerryG

So let me get this straight, you're going to ridicule me because I'm asking for a legitimate testimonial from ANYONE (even the product creator) to prove that a product that's being sold to several of the members here is actually effective for anything other than leveraging an existing sites strength and trust?

My site with competition of 5 670 000 is now place 17 in google after 30 days, these helped me along with other marketing methods I use

[Pat Jackson]

Originally Posted by jazbo

Come on guys, couldnt you spot this a mile off months ago?

LIMTG appears, starts a thread saying "Im an SEO guru ask me anything" the desperate jump with basic questions, terry answers, and gets instant "guru" status.

HE/she then launches a relevant WSO (check the sig) which has evidently bombed, so he/she disappears.

He/she is probably amonsgt us now under another name reinventing themselves already.

You may well be right but I thought quite a bit of his content was very good.

[kkchoon]

Originally Posted by LookItsMeTerryG

THEY DON'T.

And to illustrate that point, I invite any and all of you to provide me with a case study/example of a site that's ranked with these packets alone for a competitive keyword or keyphrase. (no goarticles or similar, I want a root domain or subpage).

Now, before the flaming begins, remember, I'm not knocking the products, I said they're a GREAT VALUE. I'm just saying they should be used in conjunction with other, STANDARD link building practices.

I totally second you on this...!

Anyone can easily rank low to medium competition keywords with just only one type of links, however, when the competition gets hot, more variety of link types is a "must", or you won't win the War...

Terry is not trying disregards Angela, Paul or any profile backlinks here, but merely to demonstrate or find otherwise that rely ONLY on profile backlinks for competitive keyword terms doesn't exists...

Originally Posted by debra

When backlinking, it's all about relevancy and market reach.

Contrary to popular believe PR linking is not the golden key by itself. I don't create my linking strategy according to PR juice. Fact is...I don't even actively concider it in my plan.

The difference...a relative and logical link that increased my market reach.

I target my demographics to bring in the traffic.

I don't think so. Relevancy won't do much good in high competition keywords, you still need high PR links from variety of sites!

My recent experience tells me relevancy is good for:

1. Boosting the ranking with less links
2. Low competition keywords

If you want to rank for higher competition keywords, relevancy links should save you from getting more links before ranking for a competitive keyword.

Originally Posted by Zeus66

A lot depends on competition for a given keyword. That's what's missing from this discussion. If you target KW's that get high search volumes and don't have a ton of competition, I know for a fact that you can rank nicely with nothing more than A&P's link packets. It might takes a few months' worth, but it happens. I'm not nearly stupid enough to post the niche or the KW's, but suffice to say if you really know what you're doing when you research KW's, the rest of this is blah blah blah.
John

Yes, you are right John! Terry also admit this in his OP.

However, Terry is looking for high competition keywords - using only Profile backlinks.

Kok Choon