Quotes or no quotes in Google search when seeing competing number of websites?

carlos123 · 09-26-2009, 04:10 PM

Now you are making sense Don! Not that you never were...rather that what you are saying is finally making sense to me. I will have to re-read what you just said a few times to let it sink in a bit more but if I may be so presumptious as to think I, a relative newbie, can do such a thing...I give your last statements my "Pure Gold" award!

I still find it rather ironic that a lot of tools and Adsense Masters use the number of sites that show up for a search in quotes as a measure of how competitive a niche may be when the sites that show up may not even show up in real world search results (done without quotes).

But I think I see what you mean about my mixing up some terminology or methods (as I just did in that last paragraph).

My focus is on determining how tough it's going to be to beat the top ten sites that show up. Relevant sites that will compete with me in real world search results (without quotes).

Your focus in what you have been saying...if I finally understand correctly...has been using the numbers of sites that show up as a measure of how competitive in general a keyword phrase (i.e. niche) is. Not on how easily it will be to outrank the top ten sites in search results.

These are two very different items to look at and although they are somewhat related...they are not the same.

Thanks so much for having stuck with me Don and for having taken the time to explain this to me.

Like I said...pure gold! Thank you!

Carlos

carlos123 · 09-26-2009, 04:26 PM

If I may summarize what I have learned in this thread (if anyone sees anything incorrect in what I say by all means please speak up)....

The number of sites returned by Google when searching for a given keyword phrase in quotes is a measure of how competitive the niche represented by that keyword phrase is. In a general sense the greater the number the greater the competition. The less the number the less the competition. The number itself however does not definitively say how tough it will be to achieve first page SERP ranking. It is a only a rough guide of how competitive a niche will be in that sites that are focused on that niche will be careful to optimize for the exact keyword phrase we are interested in. It is a guide to help us narrow the field of keywords down to those we might be interested in competing with others against.

While such a guide to competitiveness is useful to help us quickly gauge how competitive a niche will be it will not help us determine how difficult it will be to actually achieve a page one position. For that we must evaluate the sites that show up in a search for the keyword phrase without quotes. The sites that show up on the first page under such a search are our true competitors.

The number of sites that show up in a search without quotes is meaningless as a guide to the competitiveness of a niche since it is too general and includes in the number of sites returned those who have no interest in optimizing for a given key word phrase along with those who do.

Does that about sum it up?

Carlos

dburk · 09-26-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlos123

If I may summarize what I have learned in this thread (if anyone sees anything incorrect in what I say by all means please speak up)....

The number of sites returned by Google when searching for a given keyword phrase in quotes is a measure of how competitive the niche represented by that keyword phrase is. In a general sense the greater the number the greater the competition. The less the number the less the competition. The number itself however does not definitively say how tough it will be to achieve first page SERP ranking. It is a only a rough guide of how competitive a niche will be in that sites that are focused on that niche will be careful to optimize for the exact keyword phrase we are interested in. It is a guide to help us narrow the field of keywords down to those we might be interested in competing with others against.

While such a guide to competitiveness is useful to help us quickly gauge how competitive a niche will be it will not help us determine how difficult it will be to actually achieve a page one position. For that we must evaluate the sites that show up in a search for the keyword phrase without quotes. The sites that show up on the first page under such a search are our true competitors.

The number of sites that show up in a search without quotes is meaningless as a guide to the competitiveness of a niche since it is too general and includes in the number of sites returned those who have no interest in optimizing for a given key word phrase along with those who do.

Does that about sum it up?

Carlos

You've got it! That is it exactly, now for the next 150 lessons...

jasonmorgan · 09-26-2009, 04:50 PM

wow, great post! (doesn't that smell like comment spam

)

I never use quotes.

I see them all the time in my stats reports so obviously somebody else is using them and chasing me but I'm of the school of thought that I need to think like surfers do and I base everything off my research of #1 and #10.

I break it down to number of, and strength of backlinks including anchor text and the diversity of backlinking domains and IP's. There are other factors like domain age that are obstacles and if the top ten are dominated by youtube and wikipedia... however, I don't really see them as so much competition but more of a distraction because they aren't direct sales competition.

But, in my quickly analysis of a niche...

After I do the keyword stuff to get an idea for the amount of searches a keyword/phrase gets I'll look at sites #1 - #10

If a site has strong backlinks with appropriate anchor text coming from a wide range of domains and IP's (not profile and blog spam) then I figure this site has it's act together. Might not be worth the effort.

If a site has backlinks coming from profile and blog comment spam, that is easier to compete with.

If a site has backlinks but the majority are all from a few blogger accounts / limited number of sites, again, easier to compete with.

After all of that I just go with my gut and if I feel the work and potential earnings are worth the effort.

Might not be the best way, or even the right way to do things, we all learn as we go, but thats a quicky of how I do it.

carlos123 · 09-26-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dburk

You've got it! That is it exactly, now for the next 150 lessons...

Thanks again Don (and everyone else). I may be thick headed but when I get it...I get it good.

150 lessons!? You have got to be kidding me!

My only consolation is that when I am done I might just be able to write a great ebook and sell it for thousand dollars a pop

Carlos

09-26-2009, 04:10 PM	#51
carlos123 Advanced Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 590 Thanks: 10 Thanked 24 Times in 20 Posts	Re: Quotes or no quotes in Google search when seeing competing number of websites? Now you are making sense Don! Not that you never were...rather that what you are saying is finally making sense to me. I will have to re-read what you just said a few times to let it sink in a bit more but if I may be so presumptious as to think I, a relative newbie, can do such a thing...I give your last statements my "Pure Gold" award! I still find it rather ironic that a lot of tools and Adsense Masters use the number of sites that show up for a search in quotes as a measure of how competitive a niche may be when the sites that show up may not even show up in real world search results (done without quotes). But I think I see what you mean about my mixing up some terminology or methods (as I just did in that last paragraph). My focus is on determining how tough it's going to be to beat the top ten sites that show up. Relevant sites that will compete with me in real world search results (without quotes). Your focus in what you have been saying...if I finally understand correctly...has been using the numbers of sites that show up as a measure of how competitive in general a keyword phrase (i.e. niche) is. Not on how easily it will be to outrank the top ten sites in search results. These are two very different items to look at and although they are somewhat related...they are not the same. Thanks so much for having stuck with me Don and for having taken the time to explain this to me. Like I said...pure gold! Thank you! Carlos

09-26-2009, 04:26 PM	#52
carlos123 Advanced Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 590 Thanks: 10 Thanked 24 Times in 20 Posts	Re: Quotes or no quotes in Google search when seeing competing number of websites? If I may summarize what I have learned in this thread (if anyone sees anything incorrect in what I say by all means please speak up).... The number of sites returned by Google when searching for a given keyword phrase in quotes is a measure of how competitive the niche represented by that keyword phrase is. In a general sense the greater the number the greater the competition. The less the number the less the competition. The number itself however does not definitively say how tough it will be to achieve first page SERP ranking. It is a only a rough guide of how competitive a niche will be in that sites that are focused on that niche will be careful to optimize for the exact keyword phrase we are interested in. It is a guide to help us narrow the field of keywords down to those we might be interested in competing with others against. While such a guide to competitiveness is useful to help us quickly gauge how competitive a niche will be it will not help us determine how difficult it will be to actually achieve a page one position. For that we must evaluate the sites that show up in a search for the keyword phrase without quotes. The sites that show up on the first page under such a search are our true competitors. The number of sites that show up in a search without quotes is meaningless as a guide to the competitiveness of a niche since it is too general and includes in the number of sites returned those who have no interest in optimizing for a given key word phrase along with those who do. Does that about sum it up? Carlos

09-26-2009, 04:50 PM	#54
jasonmorgan 11B Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 742 Thanks: 1 Thanked 112 Times in 91 Posts	Re: Quotes or no quotes in Google search when seeing competing number of websites? wow, great post! (doesn't that smell like comment spam ) I never use quotes. I see them all the time in my stats reports so obviously somebody else is using them and chasing me but I'm of the school of thought that I need to think like surfers do and I base everything off my research of #1 and #10. I break it down to number of, and strength of backlinks including anchor text and the diversity of backlinking domains and IP's. There are other factors like domain age that are obstacles and if the top ten are dominated by youtube and wikipedia... however, I don't really see them as so much competition but more of a distraction because they aren't direct sales competition. But, in my quickly analysis of a niche... After I do the keyword stuff to get an idea for the amount of searches a keyword/phrase gets I'll look at sites #1 - #10 If a site has strong backlinks with appropriate anchor text coming from a wide range of domains and IP's (not profile and blog spam) then I figure this site has it's act together. Might not be worth the effort. If a site has backlinks coming from profile and blog comment spam, that is easier to compete with. If a site has backlinks but the majority are all from a few blogger accounts / limited number of sites, again, easier to compete with. After all of that I just go with my gut and if I feel the work and potential earnings are worth the effort. Might not be the best way, or even the right way to do things, we all learn as we go, but thats a quicky of how I do it.