Would doing this make me a really bad person?

[jasonmorgan]

A little something to get you thinking...

OK.. so, tonight I'm creating some more backlinks, profile style, to boost up my deep linking.

Yes, I do this myself... but as you'll read, this has it's benefits.

I'm a curious person so I take a look at the most recent member and to my surprise, it's another IMer, along with the other 10 newest members.

Actually, this shouldn't be a surprise since I know this site is on one of those lists.

*Lesson here, wait a week until you add your links or at least wait until your off the new members list.

Anyway, I take a look at their profiles. See what these kids are trying to sell and some of it looks interesting. So I take a look at their sites, backlinks, adwords, and keyword rankings... 'cus I'm a curious person.

What do I find... well, these aren't big money makers and I'm not really interested in these niches... but... I'm also seeing so many mistakes being made with basic SEO that these sites are screaming 'kick me'.

So after a little research I now have a general idea of how much these different niches are worth, keyword research, a blueprint for how many backlinks I'll need etc...

Being that most of the work is already done, all it takes now is a fresh install of wordpress MU and a weekend and I could essentially duplicate all of these peoples work and most likely bypass them in the SE's.

Now, it's not like this isn't already being done. And to a degree, many people are already doing this without realizing it. If you've ever looked at a competitors backlinks and attempted to duplicate them then you have already started on this road. This is simply taking it one step further and letting someone else do the research for you as well.

I'm not saying I'm doing this or going to do this, I'm a little busy dominating another niche the moment so 'IQ Tests', 'Banner Ads', 'Self Hypnosis' and 'VigRX' are not high on my priority list but it doesn't mean somebody else wont.

But if I were to do this... would that make me a bad person?

And a recap:

Wait before you add your links to a profile. No wonder so many people have their accounts closed. I'm sure nicknames like 'adultpill' and 'gold watches' don't help much either.

Also, you might want to find some alternate backlink sources that cant be duplicated so easily.

And, you've also been given a easy technique to rack up a lot of backlinks.

Ok, back to work for me.

[madness222]

It is a black hat technique, but you said, your not going to do it. good luck to you!

[jasonmorgan]

Is it black hat? I don't think it is.

One might say it's a douchebag technique (excuse my french) but it's really nothing more then 'researching your competitor' or using alternate means to find new markets.

I honestly find it surprising and disappointing that so many people are hanging their IM futures on $5 backlink packets, shoddy SEO and the obvious spamminess of their efforts.

[kkchoon]

Originally Posted by madness222

It is a black hat technique, but you said, your not going to do it. good luck to you!

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Is it black hat? I don't think it is.

One might say it's a douchebag technique (excuse my french) but it's really nothing more then 'researching your competitor' or using alternate means to find new markets.

I honestly find it surprising and disappointing that so many people are hanging their IM futures on $5 backlink packets, shoddy SEO and the obvious spamminess of their efforts.

I think it is black + grey hat

What's wrong with black hat? They are annoying to site owner but not necessary to marketer...!

$5 backlink packet is the most spend money I ever did! Talk whatever you like, they helped me earn tons of money

[tjcocker]

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Is it black hat? I don't think it is.

One might say it's a douchebag technique (excuse my french) but it's really nothing more then 'researching your competitor' or using alternate means to find new markets.

I honestly find it surprising and disappointing that so many people are hanging their IM futures on $5 backlink packets, shoddy SEO and the obvious spamminess of their efforts.

Agreed, but it's all a learning process. They gotta start somewhere. One day some newcomer will reverse engineer one of your sites and outrank you. It's like the circle of life.

Anything, including building backlinks, is considered "gaming the SERPS", and thus Black Hat. Every single IMer is Black Hat to a degree. Does anyone seriously build a site without thinking about on-site SEO, and then build zero backlinks to it?

Anyway, I don't think it's any more of a douchebag technique than 'researching your competitor' when they happen to be Amazon, Nextag, etc... It just seems more personal because it's another IMer. I leave them alone too, there are 6 trillion other niches out there.

[timpears]

What the OP is suggesting doing is nothing more than basic research. Not a whole lot different than doing a Google search and then checking the back links of what ever shows up on the first page. You are just going about it a little different. I don't see anything wrong with it personally. You are just using information that is on public display and following up on it to see how you can use it to benefit yourself. And I totally disagree that it is black hat, or even gray hat. But what do I know?

[Slin]

Seems fine to me, I do something similar for researching new niches.

[ruxi]

well its a good way. Always know about competitors that what they are doing? its also help to find different niches Banner adds i dont think so its a black hat technique. what you say?

[turbohips]

It's not black hat and it's called better marketing. You always have to know what your competitors are up to. Now if he is creating a new business I would still have to know everything about my competitors and bet them. Same deal applied when Walmart started out. I guess he's a black hatter in the old days LOL.

[KrazyG]

Well I really don't find it a bad thing if you will just research what they're up to. I actually find this an interesting stuff to look at when I got time.

[kkchoon]

Originally Posted by KrazyG

Well I really don't find it a bad thing if you will just research what they're up to. I actually find this an interesting stuff to look at when I got time.

I have no idea what are you talking about, care to elaborate?

[WareTime]

This is perfectly respectable behavior. It falls under market research. Do what you will with the info and don't feel a damn bit bad about it.

[affiliated survivor]

No, it´s not black hat. Everyone does it, also offline companies. A while ago I was at a job interview. The manager of the company told us that they wanted to start a new shop next to a shop of their strongest competitor. The goal of the new shop is to make the other shop unprofitable. Probably a key element in the marketing strategy of their competitor.

He said this all openly. As if it is the most normal thing in the world. I don´t see much difference in what you want to do. They also did research (spied) on their competitor. Nobody can hide. You have to win in the open field.

[tjcocker]

I didn't mean that researching was black hat....uhhh, how would anyone get anywhere without research? But doing things to your site to make it raise in the SERPS is considered "gaming" by Google. If anyone cared. Not even Google cares about most of it, it's all fair game until one day they decide they don't like it.

I just wanted to point out that the whole black-hat/white-hat argument is confused and pointless.

[Edge88]

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Is it black hat? I don't think it is.

One might say it's a douchebag technique (excuse my french) but it's really nothing more then 'researching your competitor' or using alternate means to find new markets.

I honestly find it surprising and disappointing that so many people are hanging their IM futures on $5 backlink packets, shoddy SEO and the obvious spamminess of their efforts.

Haha, I would also say its more of a douchbag technique than black hat. spamming is black hat, stealing someone else idea is much broader than internet marketing... Microsoft completely ripped off Apple (who ripped off IBM) when personal computers were first getting popular.

They are bringing it on themselves by doing that though. really, you should wait until you are off that list to post the links. When I got started with profile links about a month ago I was surprised to find so many IMers in the recently created profiles...

Seriously guys, wait a while, if a mod is online and you're on the recently created list, more likely than not he will click on it and see your spam. and after a few of you do that, that mod will take more permanent measures, like making the site not publicly viewable or dissallowing BB code.

[jasonmorgan]

Seriously guys, wait a while, if a mod is online and you're on the recently created list, more likely than not he will click on it and see your spam. and after a few of you do that, that mod will take more permanent measures, like making the site not publicly viewable or dissallowing BB code.

Yep.

Out of sight, out of mind applies more then people realize. I found another site today that was really good for backlinks that closed it's profiles to members only. It's dofollow links, blogs... all that good stuff, lost

One of the funniest sites is a gov forum that is on one of the lists. The forum has maybe 5 total posts and several thousand members... all IMers. At least it's a gov site so we know the people running it don't have a clue.

[debra]

Where do all these ppl come from that bark "black hat" just because they haven't grasped the concept of what your talking about?

It just amazes me that ppl scream foul play just because they can't grasp an idea immediately.

Hasn't it ever accured to them that they could ask questions to clarify if they don't understand what you are talking about?

Sorry for the rant...I just get blown over sometimes at the the most ridicouse remarks in a thread.

Or....

is it the latest fade to show yourself as an idiot?

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

Anyway, I take a look at their profiles. See what these kids are trying to sell and some of it looks interesting. So I take a look at their sites, backlinks, adwords, and keyword rankings... 'cus I'm a curious person.

What do I find... well, these aren't big money makers and I'm not really interested in these niches... but... I'm also seeing so many mistakes being made with basic SEO that these sites are screaming 'kick me'.

So after a little research I now have a general idea of how much these different niches are worth, keyword research, a blueprint for how many backlinks I'll need etc...

snip

I'm not saying I'm doing this or going to do this, I'm a little busy dominating another niche the moment so 'IQ Tests', 'Banner Ads', 'Self Hypnosis' and 'VigRX' are not high on my priority list but it doesn't mean somebody else wont.

But if I were to do this... would that make me a bad person?

Let me give you an analogy...

A lot of the charter fishing captains down here have spent years building a book of known hot spots. They guard these books zealously.

One such boat has a warning sign as you come aboard - "Please don't bring your GPS aboard, as they don't operate very well under 100' of water." And he's dead serious about that.

Now, if those captains left their books out where anyone could look at them, would I sneak a peek? Darn straight, I would... Would I broadcast that knowledge? Heck, no. If I did things right, the charter captain would never know I had his numbers.

On the other hand, you can go into most bait shops and buy charts with well-known fishing spots plainly marked on them. Many reefs and wrecks even have the GPS coordinates. Anyone with the chart and some simple tools can locate these productive spots.

As I see it, what you are talking about falls much closer to the charts offered for sale than a private book that resulted from painstaking research.

To put the cherry on the sundae, even if I know the coordinates of a great spot, I still have to know when to be there and what to do when I get there.

Same thing with these backlink sites. Operate from a publicly available list, and you can (or should) expect competition. Find your own and keep them to yourself, and you can use them again and again without fear.

At least until someone figures out how to reverse engineer you...

[jasonmorgan]

At least until someone figures out how to reverse engineer you...

That is kinda where I was going with this when I first made the post. So many people leave their book wide open (as you put it) and reverse engineering doesn't take much effort at all.

I can steal their keywords, backlinks and page content. They did all the research, paid for the backlinks packs and wrote content and I can come along and copy/spin what they did. Essentially recreate in a weekend what may have taken them weeks.

As I see it, what you are talking about falls much closer to the charts offered for sale than a private book that resulted from painstaking research.

Basically, it is stealing or at least borrowing their book.

Anyhoo... I guess my devious ideas aren't that far off from what is going through a lot of other minds. It's a darwinian IM world.

[Edge88]

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

...At least it's a gov site so we know the people running it don't have a clue.

Hahaha. either they don't have a clue, or will take forever to do something about it. The best would be a DMV forum. lol I would gladly spam that one and it would take them a long time to do something about it