I am losing my faith in Micro Niche Finder!

[benkleiner]

MNF give more fake information, and the situation tends to worsen...

Take a look at the pic, please.
When I open each of the KWs in big G and open the 10th page, the ridiculous amount is real, it is not a Google's glitch!

[dotcomdesigns]

Originally Posted by benkleiner

MNF give more fake information, and the situation tends to get more and more worse!

Take a look at the pic, please.
When I open each of the KWs in big G and open the 10th page, the ridiculous amount is real, it is not a Google's glitch!

Publish the kw, we're not going to steal it if there really are millions of competing sites! Did you put the kw's in " " on Google to get the extact results and then go to the last page? Quite often Google gives the wrong numbers and there really is very little competiting sites.

MNF is not giving fake information. It works just fine if you use it properly and married with MS you really can't fail at this. Seriously, I find it impossible not to succeed with these 2 tools.

[benkleiner]

Well the following is just another example including Google screen:

As you can see the numbers in Google are accurate, what is not correct is the MNF #7 in SOC ranking of the KW's!

[GeorgR.]

Originally Posted by sridhar

It is surprising to see that none has answered this correctly, so far.

The results that MNF is giving above is right. Yes, you read that right It is Google which is supplying the wrong data to MNF.

As on today, "firming face cream" has SOC of 39 (green) and exact phrase count of 2,430,000. Do a google search for "firming face cream" (with the quotes) and it says:

Now to go the bottom of the search results page and click on 9 to go to 9th results page. And, what do you see at the top now?

So the exact phrase count is in reality only 561. You need to ask Google what's going on here and where the 2,430,000 number is coming from.

The same funny thing is happening w/ the other keyword, "retinol face cream" in the OP's screenshot.

When things don't quite match up and when in doubt one should always click on the last search results page number a few times (unless you are taken to the last set of results upon first click itself) to ensure that exact phrase count shown by Google is what it is.

???

561 is the position on page #9....how do you conclude that there is only 561 of sites with that phrase? I think you got that totally wrong.

Results 501 - 561 of about 2,430,000 for "firming face cream".

simply means that you see positions 501 - 561 on page 9 of your results. Nothing more.

[sridhar]

@GeorgR: On the day I posted there were only 9 pages of search results. Today I see that it goes on and on.

Perhaps the author of program can explain what's going on w/ keywords like this and the one mentioned by benkleiner.

[benkleiner]

Another example:

[sridhar]

I just did SEO COMPETITION analysis of "firming face cream" in Market Samurai.

See the attached image.

My conclusion is that the competition might be high (in number) but the strength of competition is certainly weak and hence MNF is showing the green signal.

So perhaps MNF is correct.

[peter_act]

I have had MNF for many years, I think it cost me $100. It was good value even then, when it was a lot more primitive than it is now.

I have certainly got my money's worth since then. As James says, there is a very goos support system set up. Recently I couldn't download an upgrade, thanks to my too efficient firewall - one email to James, all fixed, with a different download url just for me.

Also I get all the upgrades for nothing (thanks James!) so now it is a very good product indeed.

I think I use it properly - I go for the green SOC, but then check the big G keyword tool and also the number of competing sites.
What MNF does is look at that number of competing sites and sorts out if any of them are any good. There may be a million competing sites, but only 25 which are fully keyword optimised.

MNF is a tool which sorts out the wheat from the chaff before you get down to serious keyword research, and should be viewed as such.

[GeorgR.]

Originally Posted by benkleiner

Well the following is just another example including Google screen:

As you can see the numbers in Google are accurate, what is not correct is the MNF #7 in SOC ranking of the KW's!

how do you know how MNF calculates the competition rating?

If you do a search in Google typing "keyword" it comes up with indexed pages....but MNF could simple use intitle:keyword as an indicatior for competition strength which could be way less than "indexed pages for keyword".

It could very well be that you get a million pages for KEYWORD in google...but a tool tells you its good since only a few sites have this in the title. Of course, there is more to it because there are more factors which decide whether competition is really *strong*.

Simply the nr. of sites in Google does not mean anything!! I can have 1.000.0000 "competing" sites, then maybe 40k with keyword IN TITLE.... PLUS most/all of the first #10 in Google have very weak backlinks and bad on-site SEO. So even with competing 1.000.0000 sites it would be very easy to outrank.

I also made the mistake when i started with keyword research simply to look at "competing sites"...but as said it doesn't mean a thing really.

[Jody_W]

I think of MNF as a tool to shorten the amount of time it takes to do niche and keyword research, not as an oracle to make decisions for me. After MNF gives me it's data, I still have to check other factors to decide if *I* think the niche or keywords will be profitable. Viewed in that context, MNF does a great job and is also a great value for the price.

[markshields]

Try to find another tool that can really help you in searching a keyword. if you are loosing a faith in Micro Niche Finder cause it will not give you what you want try Market Samurai I have lots if friends that are using this tool in finding a keyword. Some says that Micro Niche Finder is a bug software.

[dotcomdesigns]

Originally Posted by benkleiner

Well the following is just another example including Google screen:

As you can see the numbers in Google are accurate, what is not correct is the MNF #7 in SOC ranking of the KW's!

Not sure what you are saying here.

I've just run this myself it MNF results matched Google's.

kw is "mens hawaiian shirts"
MNF search on default server, exact phrase:
local search results - 2400
exact phrase count - 6700
soc - 0

Google results
search phrase - "mens hawaiian shirts"
Results: 1 - 10 of about 6,700 for "mens hawaiian shirts". (0.19
click through to page 28 of the results:
Results seconds) 271 - 276 of 276 for "mens hawaiian shirts"

At the end of the results page Google wrote:

'In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 276 already displayed.
If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included.'

Now if you want to run the search with the omitted results you'll find there's 6700.

I still can't find anything wrong with MNF. I can't see what point you are trying to make, sorry.

This is a search phrase that MNF has shown me is easy to get on page one. I'd run it through MS next, then take a look at Google's 1st page results to make a final decision.

At first glance I wouldn't bother because 2400 searches is too low for me

[benkleiner]

I have MNF to help me find L-E-A-D-S and it is giving me very false ones.

I presented clear evidence of it with two quick searches:
and most of the answers were far fetched interpretations.

The application is doing its work W-R-O-N-G and needs to be repaired.

[big_t]

I think the specific point benkleiner is trying to make is in relation to the SOC rating. Not so much the phrase count accuracy.
What he is saying is that MNF is giving low SOC ratings for keywords that actually do have high competition.

If you go to google, you could always do a quick manual check for allintitle or allinurl.
For example: allinurl:mens hawaiian shirts returns 9,960 results.

I'm new at all this and just got MNF like 2 days ago so I'm no expert, just trying to throw some more info in here.

[dotcomdesigns]

Originally Posted by big_t

I think the specific point benkleiner is trying to make is in relation to the SOC rating. Not so much the phrase count accuracy.
What he is saying is that MNF is giving low SOC ratings for keywords that actually do have high competition.

If you go to google, you could always do a quick manual check for allintitle or allinurl.
For example: allinurl:mens hawaiian shirts returns 9,960 results.

I'm new at all this and just got MNF like 2 days ago so I'm no expert, just trying to throw some more info in here.

No it doesn't! Yes it shows 9960 results, but go to the last pages. It stops at page 15, Results 121 - 130 of 130

There's only 130 REAL results for llinurl:mens hawaiian shirts

forget 9960 results, that includes duplicates, very similar results, etc etc. What you're concerned with is 130 sites to beat. Easy, easy, easy. That's why the SOC is low!

[karlhadwen]

Personally I've never used it but it seems cool, going to give it a shot.

[keyaziz]

I always check with google now. When I first started using it I was stupid enough to just rely on what it told me. But MNF gives you keywords that aren't even keywords according to google adwords keyword tool (i.e. not searched for but MNF says they are) and also keywords that aren't easy to rank for. Have to double check these things!

[Glenn Leader]

Originally Posted by GossipCrunch

Thanks to all who have sent me messages asking for my way to use Google Keyword Tool. As I do not have 50 posts so I cannot personally message anyone. If anyone wants some assistance then they can forward me their gmail id as I will chat and if necessary make a call to show GKT works.

Best

Forget about sending this info via email... If you really do have a foolproof
method of getting this info easily, why not add greatly to this forum and
tell us right here what you know?

Glenn

[big_t]

Originally Posted by dotcomdesigns

No it doesn't! Yes it shows 9960 results, but go to the last pages. It stops at page 15, Results 121 - 130 of 130

There's only 130 REAL results for llinurl:mens hawaiian shirts

forget 9960 results, that includes duplicates, very similar results, etc etc. What you're concerned with is 130 sites to beat. Easy, easy, easy. That's why the SOC is low!

Even better! I didn't check that.

I guess the 9960 applies only if you click the "In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 129 already displayed.
If you like, you can repeat the search with the ommitted results included" link.

[magentawave]

I have MNF and have seen all the video tutorials they provide but still feel like I'm not getting the whole picture. Can anyone recommend some really good video tutorials on how to find great keywords using MNF?

Thanks
Steve

[Zeus66]

Here's what I do with MNF...

1. Search whatever general niche keyword I'm interested in.

2. Keep the very low SOC's that get at least 500 monthly searches.

3. Take that list and search inside quotes at Google.

4. Get the true competition numbers by doing what I show in this video: 'Secret' Keyword Research Tip - This is VERY Eye Opening!

5. If that final number is really low (less than 200, perhaps, although this is not set in stone), I keep that keyword. If it's in the middle or upper hundreds, ditch it.

6. Search the keyword without quotes and look closely at the Top 10, because ultimately that's where we want to be. If I see any (preferably all) of the following, that keyword is a keeper:

- Web 2.0 properties featuring user generated content. These include: EzineArticles.com, YouTube, Squidoo, HubPages, GoArticles.com, Buzzle.com, Ehow.com.

- Nothing but (or at least mostly) deep inner pages of sites. If I see more than a couple TLD's in the Top 10, I ditch the keyword (usually). A search showing mostly TLD's is telling you it will be pretty difficult to outrank those sites. I don't care what my other research tells me, if I see mostly or all TLD's, I ditch that keyword.

- PR of 0-2 in the most of the Top 10. PR is not nearly as predictive as it used to be (in my opinion), but if I see a Top 10 with mostly 3's and higher, I ditch that keyword (again, usually).

A caveat: This all ultimately comes down to traffic. I will keep a keyword that might be tougher to get into the Top 10 if the search volume is high enough and if the keyword seems to be one that will produce highly targeted traffic, because that probably means I'll convert more into money on my end.

Another caveat: I'll also keep a keyword that might violate the "rules" above if it's for an Adsense site and I stand to make a lot per click. Typically, this means if the avg. estimated CPC (which the GAKT tells me) is $4.00 or more, I might keep that keyword.

Peace out.

[benkleiner]

Originally Posted by Zeus66

Here's what I do with MNF...

1. Search whatever general niche keyword I'm interested in.

2. Keep the very low SOC's that get at least 500 monthly searches.

3. Take that list and search inside quotes at Google.

4. Get the true competition numbers by doing what I show in this video: 'Secret' Keyword Research Tip - This is VERY Eye Opening!

5. If that final number is really low (less than 200, perhaps, although this is not set in stone), I keep that keyword. If it's in the middle or upper hundreds, ditch it.

6. Search the keyword without quotes and look closely at the Top 10, because ultimately that's where we want to be. If I see any (preferably all) of the following, that keyword is a keeper:

- Web 2.0 properties featuring user generated content. These include: EzineArticles.com, YouTube, Squidoo, HubPages, GoArticles.com, Buzzle.com, Ehow.com.

- Nothing but (or at least mostly) deep inner pages of sites. If I see more than a couple TLD's in the Top 10, I ditch the keyword (usually). A search showing mostly TLD's is telling you it will be pretty difficult to outrank those sites. I don't care what my other research tells me, if I see mostly or all TLD's, I ditch that keyword.

- PR of 0-2 in the most of the Top 10. PR is not nearly as predictive as it used to be (in my opinion), but if I see a Top 10 with mostly 3's and higher, I ditch that keyword (again, usually).

A caveat: This all ultimately comes down to traffic. I will keep a keyword that might be tougher to get into the Top 10 if the search volume is high enough and if the keyword seems to be one that will produce highly targeted traffic, because that probably means I'll convert more into money on my end.

Another caveat: I'll also keep a keyword that might violate the "rules" above if it's for an Adsense site and I stand to make a lot per click. Typically, this means if the avg. estimated CPC (which the GAKT tells me) is $4.00 or more, I might keep that keyword.

Peace out.

Great job, John!
But
What does TLD mean?

Thank you

[GeorgR.]

Top Level Domain

www. yoursite.com | .org |.biz etc.. without yoursite.com/subpage.html

www .mysite.com <-- TLD
www. mysite.com/somearticle-1254.html <- no TLD (deep link)

[Joseph Then]

Guys, remember that there is a BIG DIFFERENCE when you try to use MNF using default Google server and check out the results in your location.

I'm in Singapore so the results is quite different when I check the SOC stats at my browser.

You should check your locality...

For me so far, I've been ranking my keywords successfully using MNF, like 8 out of every 10 keywords successfully ranked, so no issues from me.

[NicheCowboy]

I'm not using this tool much myself anymore.

[benkleiner]

Do you use MNF with proxies so as not to have problems with big G?
How do you do that, please?
Thank you

[benkleiner]

Originally Posted by Joseph Then

Guys, remember that there is a BIG DIFFERENCE when you try to use MNF using default Google server and check out the results in your location.

I'm in Singapore so the results is quite different when I check the SOC stats at my browser.

You should check your locality...

For me so far, I've been ranking my keywords successfully using MNF, like 8 out of every 10 keywords successfully ranked, so no issues from me.

You can use Google global extension to have the results like in US

[magentawave]

Good stuff! You answered a few key questions I had. Thanks for taking the time to share that dude.

Thanks
Steve

Originally Posted by Zeus66

Here's what I do with MNF...

1. Search whatever general niche keyword I'm interested in.

2. Keep the very low SOC's that get at least 500 monthly searches.

3. Take that list and search inside quotes at Google.

4. Get the true competition numbers by doing what I show in this video: 'Secret' Keyword Research Tip - This is VERY Eye Opening!

5. If that final number is really low (less than 200, perhaps, although this is not set in stone), I keep that keyword. If it's in the middle or upper hundreds, ditch it.

6. Search the keyword without quotes and look closely at the Top 10, because ultimately that's where we want to be. If I see any (preferably all) of the following, that keyword is a keeper:

- Web 2.0 properties featuring user generated content. These include: EzineArticles.com, YouTube, Squidoo, HubPages, GoArticles.com, Buzzle.com, Ehow.com.

- Nothing but (or at least mostly) deep inner pages of sites. If I see more than a couple TLD's in the Top 10, I ditch the keyword (usually). A search showing mostly TLD's is telling you it will be pretty difficult to outrank those sites. I don't care what my other research tells me, if I see mostly or all TLD's, I ditch that keyword.

- PR of 0-2 in the most of the Top 10. PR is not nearly as predictive as it used to be (in my opinion), but if I see a Top 10 with mostly 3's and higher, I ditch that keyword (again, usually).

A caveat: This all ultimately comes down to traffic. I will keep a keyword that might be tougher to get into the Top 10 if the search volume is high enough and if the keyword seems to be one that will produce highly targeted traffic, because that probably means I'll convert more into money on my end.

Another caveat: I'll also keep a keyword that might violate the "rules" above if it's for an Adsense site and I stand to make a lot per click. Typically, this means if the avg. estimated CPC (which the GAKT tells me) is $4.00 or more, I might keep that keyword.

Peace out.

[jlxsolutions]

MNF =UZI sure its shoots many pretty bullets and once they hit they do some gruesome hole.if they hit.(thou even a child can use a uzi so a bonus there)


Market samurai 0.50 caliber barret sniper rifle
you dont miss nuff said and once you hit you really hit

[benkleiner]

Originally Posted by Zeus66

Here's what I do with MNF...

1. Search whatever general niche keyword I'm interested in.

2. Keep the very low SOC's that get at least 500 monthly searches.

3. Take that list and search inside quotes at Google.

4. Get the true competition numbers by doing what I show in this video: 'Secret' Keyword Research Tip - This is VERY Eye Opening!

5. If that final number is really low (less than 200, perhaps, although this is not set in stone), I keep that keyword. If it's in the middle or upper hundreds, ditch it.

6. Search the keyword without quotes and look closely at the Top 10, because ultimately that's where we want to be. If I see any (preferably all) of the following, that keyword is a keeper:

- Web 2.0 properties featuring user generated content. These include: EzineArticles.com, YouTube, Squidoo, HubPages, GoArticles.com, Buzzle.com, Ehow.com.

- Nothing but (or at least mostly) deep inner pages of sites. If I see more than a couple TLD's in the Top 10, I ditch the keyword (usually). A search showing mostly TLD's is telling you it will be pretty difficult to outrank those sites. I don't care what my other research tells me, if I see mostly or all TLD's, I ditch that keyword.

- PR of 0-2 in the most of the Top 10. PR is not nearly as predictive as it used to be (in my opinion), but if I see a Top 10 with mostly 3's and higher, I ditch that keyword (again, usually).

A caveat: This all ultimately comes down to traffic. I will keep a keyword that might be tougher to get into the Top 10 if the search volume is high enough and if the keyword seems to be one that will produce highly targeted traffic, because that probably means I'll convert more into money on my end.

Another caveat: I'll also keep a keyword that might violate the "rules" above if it's for an Adsense site and I stand to make a lot per click. Typically, this means if the avg. estimated CPC (which the GAKT tells me) is $4.00 or more, I might keep that keyword.

Peace out.

This trick you showed there works for my only in about 20% of the inconsistencies!
In the rest eg. SOC=1 / global search=1,370,000 and then I go to the 10th page, the 20th,..., the 59th and goes on!

Could the reason for that massive inconsistencies be the fact I am working far beyond the Deep South in Argentina City?

[GossipCrunch]

Those who are asking me for assistance with Google Keyword Tool, please share with me your gmail id too. As I do not have enough posts to personally message you as I am not a regular here.

Look forward to help you with your Niche Keyword Findings.

[GeorgR.]

I am still not sure about whether the SOC calculation is a real good indicator for competition strength. Micro Niche Finder uses intitle: inanchor: inurl:, all three of them and checks whether a keyword is in title AND anchor AND url.

With Market Samurai you use SEOC or SEOCT (==intitle: ). So..MNF uses a stronger criteria because it uses all three of them. Right now i am comparing both tools, both are good in some way or the other.

What *every* available keyword research tool on the market lacks is actually a way to recursively search for long tails, those very low search volume keywords with very few competing sites. I found a semi-working way to get a really LOOONG list of keywords with a tool "Keyword Research Pro", get as many KWs as possible and then import to Market Samurai and check and filter.

[7_8_shortcuts]

Originally Posted by entrepenerd

It's important to remember that keyword research tools like MNF are only as good as the data sources they gather from....

Plus Google is bisaed and is likely giving you keywords/results that are good for THEM when you advertise there...

That's the reason I prefer Wordtracker and other tools that are a bit more independent, because they don't directly depend on advertising like Google does.

[kyleoxenham]

Hi,

I just got MNF, and I am very disappointed with the data.

For example, it will say that a keyword has HIGH competition, and needs thousands of backlinks to rank for, but in my case I am #1 in Google for this term, if I went by MNF data I would lose out on great keywords.

The Exact Phrase Count in MNF does not match what Google says either.

I will ask for a refund ASAP for MNF, if I went by their data I would lose out on allot, I don't recommend it.

[IMSince2003]

Boy do I hate it when these old threads get resurrected from the dead. Listen, MNF is a tool that allows a RELATIVE comparison of potential keywords. If you have sites like I do with a thousand pages of content, then this tool really helps when looking for more keywords to add. I do the batches in MNF and then look at the page 1 results in Market Samurai. That's how I do it and I am very successful. Now I also look at my server logs and find keywords that I never would have thought of. Don't forget to use the data created by people who find your site.

[Juvv2096]

I must admit Ive had the same sort of problems with MNF. I dont take it as gospel thats for sure.

[chrislangley]

It happens, bugs, updates can render a software pretty much defunct, just hope the creators notice and update to fit