Is link spam the only way to create backlinks?

[dwatrous]

I've been following this thread on the forum:
Terry Kyle’s Big 60-Day Backlink Experiment

I bought his report since everyone else seemed so excited about it. I was surprised to find that the bulk of his tactics had to do with what seems like link spam to me. I had a forum on one of my sites and hated having to check each day to see what j$#k had created a bogus account just for the links so I could delete it. I actually had to delete an entire forum once because someone hacked it and posted a bunch of absolute garbage in there, linking to porn pills and casinos.

Now I'm not trying to take the moral high road here, and I think that Terry's suggestions are a little more conservative in terms of overall impact on each forum where he posts, but it still seems really leechy to me.

The thing that SURPRISED me most is that everyone on that thread (almost 900 replies so far) seems to think that he's nailed it right on the head.

Isn't there any way to build backlinks that work without the sneaky spam tactics?

That thread was a little congested, so I started this one. If there's an "other" side of the warrior forum that has found less spamy ways of creating backlinks, please let me know.

[zincOnline]

I am not really familiar with the report.

But, not all backlinking is spammy - it just depends how you go about it.

Creating good quality articles is a start - creating an interesting blog perhaps.

Using sites that every other "spam" marketer uses was flagged a long time ago by google imo.

[cashcow]

Non spammy backlinking works but leaving the spammy links is faster and easier. It seems most people are looking for the easy way out, thus the popularity of these types of threads and programs.

I'm not making any judgments and am certainly no angel myself.

Lee

[Liam Hamer]

I have moved away from profile backlinks in the last couple of months. That's not to say I disagree with them, because I don't - I think they have their place, and will probably use them again at some point. Just because you leave a link in your profile, doesn't mean you can't contribute and add value to the sites

Without giving away any of my secrets(I actually picked this up from another Warrior anyway), it baffles me that most people using these profile links simply drop an anchor text link or two and do nothing else Even people that are supposedly experts do this. If you are going to leave a link in your profile, give it some context otherwise it won't carry much weight. That's all I'm going to say about that

There are thousands of ways of getting backlinks that aren't spammy - quality articles, quality web 2.0 submissions, quality videos, quality blog comments, quality press releases etc etc etc. Syndication is what can leverage your content and give you a good volume of backlinks, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it

[DavidO]

I'm also a bit concerned about link "spam". Although you don't mention it, a lot of social bookmarking is real spammy, especially done in groups where you bookmark each other's pages.

Like many others, I jumped on the bandwagon and used a lot of these methods. But now I've backed off and I'm almost exclusively using "quality" links. What are these? Articles, proper contributions to social sites and blogs, etc.

My total number and rate of links has gone way down but the quality score has surely improved. And the result is that my search positions and traffic have improved recently.

You can't tell me that Google and the others give any credence to profile links on a PR0 page of a mega-page social site!

Quit wasting your time on "easy" (translation: spammy) methods! The ones who build genuine, quality content and links are the ones pulling ahead.

[Daniel Brock]

It depends on the person behind the technique.

For example, you can blog comment with some very useful info to get comments.

You can also use the same technique by the spam version buy using blog commenting software.

Forum posting is another way you can get legit back links.

Same with Social bookmarking if you actually submit real info.

Article marketing is another way.

All of these things take a lot of time, which is why no one talks about doing it like this anymore.

[khtm]

I prefer Social Bookmarking as a spam-free way to get backlinks. Many of the social bookmarking sites welcome bookmarks from any user and don't have a "spam" policy so don't care too much about the content of the bookmarked URLs.

[Texas_Guns]

Yes, there are MANY ways to build real backlinks.

I'm launching a WSO today with 19 videos showing proven
backlinking methods that we used. Those "spammy" links
can/do work - but the key is MODERATION and focusing on
niche-related sites and authority sites in your niche.

I've got a TON of info to share about this - will be doing so
very soon.

One thing that's good to keep in mind is something that Bing.com
recently wrote in their webmaster community:

Quantity vs. Quality. This is a leading misconception among many webmasters. They naturally assume that if one inbound link is good, ten are great, and 47,500 must be fantastic! All things being equal, that might be true, but it is very rare that all things are indeed equal… Instead of making the mistake of focusing on quantity, you’ll be far more successful if you focus instead on quality.

A small number of highly relevant, inbound links from sites with solid reputations can do more for you than a ton of junk links. Attempting to boost the quantity of inbound links by artificial means, such as link exchanges, is old-school thinking… Relevance is the word today, and that helps distinguish the quality of links.
--– Bing.com Webmaster Community

[Andyhenry]

I feel your sentiment.

In truth - of course you can get massive backlinks without the spammy methods a lot of people use.

It's like most other things in IM, people see this stuff as the magic bullet and don't bother with the normal ways that work just as well.

I've ALWAYS (that's over 10 years in IM) found that I could get the results I want just using press releases, articles and directory submissions.

Now, with that said, I'm a techy at heart and love to see how things work and test them, and there are lots of other ways that work - although I have to say, creating profiles on web2 platforms would not be my first choice for getting links, the ones that get sold to lots of people become almost useless very quickly as the places they target get pissed off with all the crap that comes their way from them. (who wouldn't)

I used to run WSOs showing all the ways you can get links, but with all the crap WSOs selling links these days I've stopped bothering because people don't seem to want the 'proper' ways, just the spammy ones.

Andy

[mahesh2k]

I feel the pain of people joining site and dropping links when i got such people on my own forum. They add no value to your site and over that they even want to take some link juice from your site. I mean just imagine scenario where weightloss/MMO link spammers posting their links on science forum ? and with excuse that there is member profile link/signature field for what purpose ? definitely not for non-contributors to community.

There are ways to get links for your site but it takes time. So i prefer to build links slowly instead of spammy way.

[Duncan]

I learned something new about linking. Having related links on your page that is not affiliate links, can help in increasing your rankings. There is a lot of buzz about one way links now than 2 way. Seems linking to content can improve your rankings.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by Duncan

I learned something new about linking. Having related links on your page that is not affiliate links, can help in increasing your rankings. There is a lot of buzz about one way links now than 2 way. Seems linking to content can improve your rankings.

That's always been sensible - both for your visitors and any search engines trying to work out what your site is about.

[dwatrous]

Originally Posted by khtm

I prefer Social Bookmarking as a spam-free way to get backlinks. Many of the social bookmarking sites welcome bookmarks from any user and don't have a "spam" policy so don't care too much about the content of the bookmarked URLs.

I wouldn't have thought of social bookmarking as spam. Those sites are all about posting a link and a quick summary, so it makes sense. I was talking mostly about the empty profile links that I've been reading about.

[dwatrous]

I was up until midnight last night reading that report about backlinking and it got me a bit down. I'm glad to hear others here mention articles, web 2.0 and genuine contributions to communities.

The thing that was disheartening was that the other thread and report suggest that posting many articles lacks link diversity, and so Google doesn't give those links much credence. I'm not sure if that's the case or not.

One thing I can say is that posting a non-contributing profile to a forum many hundreds or thousands of times over sounds like a house of cards to me. It seems like you would always be at risk of losing your position due to admins getting wise to your plot and eliminating your profiles.

It also seems that some of the really big target keywords might just be out of reach to a solo IMer, due to the amount of quality content required to get them.

Great comments so far. Thanks.

define link spam for me please so I understand what "you" consider to be link spam ... Building backlinks is normal and it is not all spammy..

Please answer the above so I can help you further...

James

[Darius Greindl]

article directories
website directories
sites in your niche that you have to contact to get a link
creating valuable content that people will link automatically to

Here is actually a very good thread about the same topic for you:

what can I do to get more backlinks?

[J.Cox]

linkspam is simply for quantity of backlinks... the quality is usually terrible...

[dwatrous]

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

define link spam for me please so I understand what "you" consider to be link spam ... Building backlinks is normal and it is not all spammy..

Please answer the above so I can help you further...

James

When I was operating a fitness forum and someone would create a profile and post links to casinos or porn, I considered that spam. I also think it's spam to post one liner comments to blogs, like "Hey, I never thought of it just like that. Thanks", or "Great style of writing, have followed your blog and will definitely read more". They add nothing to the conversation and can only have the purpose of creating a backlink which leeches off of my site.

I don't think it's spam to create a profile on a forum where you intend to make valid contributions to the overall conversation. I'm not even sure your signature has to be on topic with the forum, but you need to contribute to the conversation.

Just think of some guy coming to a party on at your house and he walks in wearing a shirt and jeans with some MLM company on it and a handful of brochures about getting rich in 30 days by inviting two other people to join the program. He either starts making mindless off topic comments by interrupting other conversations so he can then hand them a brochure or he sits int he corner trying not to make too much noise so you don't notice him and just passes them out to folks as they come and go.

How is it different when you go to someone's forum, where they set it up, they pay for it, they chose the topic, they moderate it and you just want to put a few links up.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with MLM, or the guy that wants to promote it, but he should find a more appropriate way of doing it. NOT by crashing your party and making a nuisance of himself.

That's what "I" think spam is.

[dwatrous]

Originally Posted by J.Cox

linkspam is simply for quantity of backlinks... the quality is usually terrible...

And I can see the appeal in it. In some ways it seems easier to just leech some links off of a bunch of forums, rather than take the time to make worthwhile contributions. It also allows for niche irrelevant sites to "host" your links.

But in the end, the amount of work it takes to find the forum sites, create your fake profiles, track them to see if they don't get caught by an admin/moderator, isn't small. That's still a lot of work.

I think maybe the most appealing part of it is that you can outsource that type of work for cheap, but you can't outsource quality content and conversation for cheap.

Ok I can see that you are currently a few notches above the fold and that is a good thing.. There are many that will spout out bad advice because the so called experts or self proclaimed gurus say this or that..

Personaly I do not buy ebooks and junk reports as I am the type that does not follow this so-called marketer and that so-called marketer. I do things my way and I go out and I test... I do not care what the latest and greatest ebook says or what other people say about this person is so great or that person is the best marketer..

I do not get all caught up in the hype and fluff... No thanks, I prefer to do things my way.. With all that in mind let me say this ...

You can build quality backlinks by being a productive member in the community... It is that simple and as someone that has done over 3,000,000 bookmarks in less than a year, you can bet I have tested, tested, and tested...

You should focus on articles directories, bookmarking sites, document sharing sites, video sites, social networks, and etc.. But there is a limit here that is actually needed to create quality links..

While you should submit to hundreds of article directories and bookmark sites the same is not true for social networks. You do not need to join every social network on the planet. Join 2 or 3 and focus on them, make helpful post, offer to help, socialize, create a group, become apart of groups, be active and share, listen, and grow..

This same thing goes for video sites and document sharing sites, you do not need to join every single one of them.. But you should focus your attention on a few of them.

All of this you probably already know and it is nothing new.. It is proper marketing after all and you do not need any ebook to tell you that.

Let me discuss a few things that ebook will not though.

Help boost your linkage even greater just by doing a few little simple things. You do not need auto software or a script to do this. These are simple steps that are never discussed but work very effectively.

* You have your facebook account, join the app Su.pr - Drive More Traffic with Your Short URLs! as this app will allow you to post to facebook, stumbleUpon and twitter at the same time. This gives you 3 post in one shot but it can even go further. If you have a friendfeed.com account then you can auto feed friendfeed.com so when post are made using su.pr then your friendfeed is also updated instantly...

The above can save you a great deal of time. There are also other sites you can feed twitter into such as linked-in. So if you add your tweets there then 1 post on su.pr now covers 5 sites all at one..

This is in no way spamming, post informative information and not some stupid sales gimmick.

* You have an account at delicious.com and you bookmark about 50 - 100 links (not all yours mind you as you should mix things up). Now go to your export and export these urls. Go and create an account with mister-wong.com and several other bookmarking sites that allow "imports" (there are many that do). After you create those accounts you just login and import your already bookmarked sites.

Do this at 10 or 20 sites and in a few hours you could have several thousand bookmarks and backlinks. All done very easily and manually without any software needed. You could repeat this process with 4 or 5 accounts if you choose to do so. Just keep in mind you should not create more than you can handle because you should login these sites and participate.

* If you have a clipmarks.com account similar thing can be done as they also allow inmport into seveal places while you are doing your clipmarks..

See all of this done naturally and no spamming and no software needed to do the above. None of the above is spam ...

The bottom line is create quality content, participate and be apart of these communities..

James

Originally Posted by dwatrous

When I was operating a fitness forum and someone would create a profile and post links to casinos or porn, I considered that spam. I also think it's spam to post one liner comments to blogs, like "Hey, I never thought of it just like that. Thanks", or "Great style of writing, have followed your blog and will definitely read more". They add nothing to the conversation and can only have the purpose of creating a backlink which leeches off of my site.

I don't think it's spam to create a profile on a forum where you intend to make valid contributions to the overall conversation. I'm not even sure your signature has to be on topic with the forum, but you need to contribute to the conversation.

Just think of some guy coming to a party on at your house and he walks in wearing a shirt and jeans with some MLM company on it and a handful of brochures about getting rich in 30 days by inviting two other people to join the program. He either starts making mindless off topic comments by interrupting other conversations so he can then hand them a brochure or he sits int he corner trying not to make too much noise so you don't notice him and just passes them out to folks as they come and go.

How is it different when you go to someone's forum, where they set it up, they pay for it, they chose the topic, they moderate it and you just want to put a few links up.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with MLM, or the guy that wants to promote it, but he should find a more appropriate way of doing it. NOT by crashing your party and making a nuisance of himself.

That's what "I" think spam is.

[actionplanbiz]

i like to take my time and leave some content whenever i drop links. increase the probability of it staying there. why put garbage on someone elses website?

[dwatrous]

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Ok I can see that you are currently a few notches above the fold and that is a good thing.. There are many that will spout out bad advice because the so called experts or self proclaimed gurus say this or that..

Personaly I do not buy ebooks and junk reports as I am the type that does not follow this so-called marketer and that so-called marketer. I do things my way and I go out and I test... I do not care what the latest and greatest ebook says or what other people say about this person is so great or that person is the best marketer..

I do not get all caught up in the hype and fluff... No thanks, I prefer to do things my way.. With all that in mind let me say this ...

You can build quality backlinks by being a productive member in the community... It is that simple and as someone that has done over 3,000,000 bookmarks in less than a year, you can bet I have tested, tested, and tested...

You should focus on articles directories, bookmarking sites, document sharing sites, video sites, social networks, and etc.. But there is a limit here that is actually needed to create quality links..

While you should submit to hundreds of article directories and bookmark sites the same is not true for social networks. You do not need to join every social network on the planet. Join 2 or 3 and focus on them, make helpful post, offer to help, socialize, create a group, become apart of groups, be active and share, listen, and grow..

This same thing goes for video sites and document sharing sites, you do not need to join every single one of them.. But you should focus your attention on a few of them.

All of this you probably already know and it is nothing new.. It is proper marketing after all and you do not need any ebook to tell you that.

Let me discuss a few things that ebook will not though.

Help boost your linkage even greater just by doing a few little simple things. You do not need auto software or a script to do this. These are simple steps that are never discussed but work very effectively.

* You have your facebook account, join the app Su.pr - Drive More Traffic with Your Short URLs! as this app will allow you to post to facebook, stumbleUpon and twitter at the same time. This gives you 3 post in one shot but it can even go further. If you have a friendfeed.com account then you can auto feed friendfeed.com so when post are made using su.pr then your friendfeed is also updated instantly...

The above can save you a great deal of time. There are also other sites you can feed twitter into such as linked-in. So if you add your tweets there then 1 post on su.pr now covers 5 sites all at one..

This is in no way spamming, post informative information and not some stupid sales gimmick.

* You have an account at delicious.com and you bookmark about 50 - 100 links (not all yours mind you as you should mix things up). Now go to your export and export these urls. Go and create an account with mister-wong.com and several other bookmarking sites that allow "imports" (there are many that do). After you create those accounts you just login and import your already bookmarked sites.

Do this at 10 or 20 sites and in a few hours you could have several thousand bookmarks and backlinks. All done very easily and manually without any software needed. You could repeat this process with 4 or 5 accounts if you choose to do so. Just keep in mind you should not create more than you can handle because you should login these sites and participate.

* If you have a clipmarks.com account similar thing can be done as they also allow inmport into seveal places while you are doing your clipmarks..

See all of this done naturally and no spamming and no software needed to do the above. None of the above is spam ...

The bottom line is create quality content, participate and be apart of these communities..

James

Those are some good comments. I use tweetdeck, which covers twitter, facebook, linkedin and myspace (even though I haven't used myspace). It doesn't do stumbleupon though, so I'll look into that. Overall great suggestions. Thanks.

Originally Posted by dwatrous

Those are some good comments. I use tweetdeck, which covers twitter, facebook, linkedin and myspace (even though I haven't used myspace). It doesn't do stumbleupon though, so I'll look into that. Overall great suggestions. Thanks.

I do not use any automation when it comes to twitter, facebook, and etc .. Those networks I participate on personally.. But it is always great to have short-cuts ... I also feed my rss feed into facebook, linked-in, and squidoo... Instant content.

James

[dwatrous]

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I do not use any automation when it comes to twitter, facebook, and etc .. Those networks I participate on personally.. But it is always great to have short-cuts ... I also feed my rss feed into facebook, linked-in, and squidoo... Instant content.

James

I think we're saying the same thing there. Tweetdeck lets me broadcast a single comment out to all those networks and at the same time lets me interact individually with each.

[eashe]

Originally Posted by DavidO

I'm also a bit concerned about link "spam". Although you don't mention it, a lot of social bookmarking is real spammy, especially done in groups where you bookmark each other's pages.

Like many others, I jumped on the bandwagon and used a lot of these methods. But now I've backed off and I'm almost exclusively using "quality" links. What are these? Articles, proper contributions to social sites and blogs, etc.

My total number and rate of links has gone way down but the quality score has surely improved. And the result is that my search positions and traffic have improved recently.

You can't tell me that Google and the others give any credence to profile links on a PR0 page of a mega-page social site!

Quit wasting your time on "easy" (translation: spammy) methods! The ones who build genuine, quality content and links are the ones pulling ahead.

I agree with Davido, quit wasting your time on quick ways to get links that have no real value, focus on things with substance that bring real added value for your market. Articles, blog posts, guest blog posting, syndication, etc are real ways to add value to your market and give you a good standing with the engines.

[jasonmorgan]

It is spam.

I use many of these techniques myself but I don't try to pretend it's something it isn't.

The problem is, when done right, these methods work which is why they are so popular.

It's a fast and easy way to build up a site and make money which is a great motivator to switch to the dark side of internet marketing.

[warrior49]

pretty well if you are link building you are spamming in some way in my opinion. The trick is to try and contribute to where you are building the link without blatantly spamming and not contributing any useful comment.

[Mike Anthony]

This thread is more than a little misleading. It simple assumes that everyone uses these backlinks in the same way - drop and leave. Truth is many people write articles, create blogs and post on forums at these sites so the question is not what else can you do but how can you do this in a way that isn't spam.

Sorry this might stir the pot but I've read some ezine article sites and they can be as spammy as an about me section of a backlink profile. Maybe even more because you go to those articles expecting to read substance and all you get is general gibberish and an invitation to visit the author's site at the end.

So how is article marketing so different? or forum marketing? I read some post here that have far more expertise than any article I have seen anywhere else (particulalry on marketing), How is article marketing with a profile link at the end any better than a signature link at the end of a forum post? again its how you use the link strategy not the strategy itself that is spammy.

[Tom Goodwin]

I might be different than most of the folks here, but unless you have $$$$ for advertising and whatnot, virtually all link building is spam to some extent.

IMHO, relating to commercial sites of yours:

Socialbookmarking --> spam
Submitting RSS feeds through RSS submitters --> spam
Submitting a single article to EZA, hoping for the backlink -->probably spam
Submitting an article through a mass article submitter --> definitely spam
Submitting videos hoping to get traffic and/or backlinks --> spam
Adding your signature on forums (like here at warriorforum) --> spam


IMHO, it confounds me up when people are OK with submitting a spun article to 400 sites, but have an issue with putting a backlink in a forum profile, but to each their own.

Tom

Originally Posted by dwatrous

I've been following this thread on the forum:
Terry Kyle’s Big 60-Day Backlink Experiment

I bought his report since everyone else seemed so excited about it. I was surprised to find that the bulk of his tactics had to do with what seems like link spam to me. I had a forum on one of my sites and hated having to check each day to see what j$#k had created a bogus account just for the links so I could delete it. I actually had to delete an entire forum once because someone hacked it and posted a bunch of absolute garbage in there, linking to porn pills and casinos.

Now I'm not trying to take the moral high road here, and I think that Terry's suggestions are a little more conservative in terms of overall impact on each forum where he posts, but it still seems really leechy to me.

The thing that SURPRISED me most is that everyone on that thread (almost 900 replies so far) seems to think that he's nailed it right on the head.

Isn't there any way to build backlinks that work without the sneaky spam tactics?

That thread was a little congested, so I started this one. If there's an "other" side of the warrior forum that has found less spamy ways of creating backlinks, please let me know.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by dwatrous

I wouldn't have thought of social bookmarking as spam. Those sites are all about posting a link and a quick summary, so it makes sense. I was talking mostly about the empty profile links that I've been reading about.

Posting a link in digg to your site on acai berry detox is 100% spam. I can't say one shouldn't do it, you just have to understand what it really is and don't fool yourself.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

IMHO, it confounds me up when people are OK with submitting a spun article to 400 sites, but have an issue with putting a backlink in a forum profile, but to each their own.

Tom

Sometimes one sentence just nails it.

[Shoaib]

Many valid points in this thread. I guess it depends on your definition of SPAM (as we can see, some consider article marketing spam and others do not), which can be argued all day long.

The problem is... in the good old days of the internet, you could build backlinks, or exchange links, with almost any website. Even sites with huge traffic would link to the little guys. I experienced just that when I started a new site or two and got more traffic than I could handle just because of one front-page link on a top site in the industry -- all because I was acquainted with the guy who ran it through some forums and he was aware that I was launching that site. Any website I started around that time (there were several), they all got linked-to from very high-traffic sites, without any or much effort on my part, and generating traffic wasn't a problem.

If my 13 year old self wanted to be #1 on YAHOO or EXCITE or whatever the main "search engines" were that time, for HOLLYWOOD... all I would have to do is stuff my meta tags with:

"HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD"

.. and a few days later I would be number one for HOLLYWOOD, on all the major search engines, getting all the traffic, and calling my account manager at VALUECLICK because .25 cents per click on banner ads just wasn't gonna cut it anymore, pay me 50 cents/click or I'm going to clickagents. And guess what? they paid me what I wanted.

You would also have so many random webmasters e-mailing you and asking if they could link to you, or letting you know that they linked to your site, or simply asking to exchange links. This is circa mid-late-ish 90's.

The fact is it doesn't work like that these days. After this whole backlinkarama and Google ranking shmankings discoveries etc etc etc, when people know (or think they know) that backlinks count a good deal towards ranking, and all this talk about LINK JUICE and PASSING RANK and "noo I'm not gonna add one more link to my page it'll mess up the PR!!!" and bla bla bla..

...what are the little guys and even established internet marketers to do? People have just gotten really "stingy" when it comes to linking to other websites. Even if they do link, many are made NOFOLLOW, which is again because of the whole drama with link juice and pagerank etc.

So, the average webmasters mostly go about building backlinks via any of the above mentioned methods. Some consider it spam, some do not.

To answer the main question asked by the OP:

Originally Posted by dwatrous

Isn't there any way to build backlinks that work without the sneaky spam tactics?

What it comes down to is: Yes, it is possible to get thousands of backlinks without spamming. How? Start some sort of a website or service that has never been seen or heard of on the internet, such as when Google started, or when YouTube, MySpace, FaceBook, and others started. Do that and the whole world will be linking to you like there's no tomorrow! You will be bought out by the Powers That Be for one hundred thousand billion zillion dollars in just a matter of weeks or months.

Now, if you're not able to do that, and want to get backlinks, the bulk of those backlinks are going to come from what some call "SPAM".

[Chris Kent]

Great thread. I too don't want to lower myself to techniques like forum profile spamming. Grey hat it is at least, black hat maybe, white hat it definitely ain't.

The other techniques are all on a spectrum but this profile spamming definitely has to be top of Google's list to weed out and I'm glad my sites don't have hundreds of forum profile backlinks because I've little doubt that Google will slam those existing sites that do, some day.

So what is the most white hat method left? I think article distribution incl. spinning. Whilst some may argue about how readable spun articles are (I think a skilled sentence spinner can do this no problem), I also think that spun and syndicated articles don't have a recognisable footprint to identify them in the first place.

[mrizos]

yeah, write stuff worth linking to...

[InternetMarketingIQ]

Link spammers are just spinning their wheels so it doesn't matter. Let them waste their time.

Links are a small part of ranking... and self made links just leave a footprint.

Build Relationships. Write content people will want to link to.

That is how the game is won. And it involves QUALITY not QUANTITY.

Most people are not very good at doing much more than copying.

[GeorgR.]

"link spam" == what any other "SEO" does.

Sorry, this includes any kind of "profiles" like angela, pauls, social bookmarking and whatever links on UNRELATED pages and blogs. (Which 99% of all link builders will offer you)

The SEOs from yesterday still look at PR mainly.

I agree 100% that relevancy is all what it is about.

Better: Blogs, Forums HIGHLY RELEVANT to your site. Web2.0 *possible* if its on a relevant sub-network, like a Squidoo lens in the weight-loss section etc..

Article directories, same here. Although i think that Google doesnt value article directories and web2.0 properties that high anymore.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by ProductCreator

... because I've little doubt that Google will slam those existing sites that do, some day.

.

Nonsense. If Google could penalize you for *incoming* links, how how would it be just to link spam all of your competitor's sites so that you are #1? You need to worry about the outgoing links from your site, not the incoming.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by ProductCreator

So what is the most white hat method left? I think article distribution incl. spinning.

Pot calling the kettle black here I think. If forum profiles is grey hat, so is mass article spinning.

[thebarksmeow]

I just don't get it. We are online salesmen. That's all. We do what we have to do to make money and support our lives/families. Do I "spam"? Yes. Do I leave quality content sometimes? Yes. My job is to sell, bottom line. Just like someone earlier in the thread said about the "do not call" list. It's the same thing. If I leave a link in my profile and they delete it from the forum. I remove that site from my list. That's their "house" and I respect that. There isn't any hard feelings. I won't create a profile there any more. It's that simple. Do you get this upset when you get junk mail in your mailbox? If you don't want it, throw it away. Just because you post quality content doesn't mean "Ok, you contributed to my site. You are welcome to spam now". This is all a part of the job.

[Chris Kent]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Pot calling the kettle black here I think. If forum profiles is grey hat, so is mass article spinning.

Why? I can spin articles that are perfectly readable and give value. The only reason I would spin has nothing to do with dupe content (which does not exist) but solely to increase adoption of my articles.

The blogs and directories that the articles get posted to are 100% white hat.

This doesn't compare with creating forum accounts just to leave a (usually) unrelated link and barely contributing (if at all) to the forum.

I don't see the comparison. One takes value, the other gives it.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by ProductCreator

Why? I can spin articles that are perfectly readable and give value. The only reason I would spin has nothing to do with dupe content (which does not exist) but solely to increase adoption of my articles.

The blogs and directories that the articles get posted to are 100% white hat.

This doesn't compare with creating forum accounts just to leave a (usually) unrelated link and barely contributing (if at all) to the forum.

I don't see the comparison. One takes value, the other gives it.

A spun article is a junk article. This has nothing to do with "readability" either. It is the same re-hashed crap. Obviously we disagree on this point, but I am firm in that position. You are then submitting the junk article for links. IMHO, that is the epitomy of taking value without giving the same in return. People become territorial around here about their "method" of getting backlinks, and sometimes fail to see the similarities between their methods and others they might look down upon.

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

A spun article is a junk article. This has nothing to do with "readability" either. It is the same re-hashed crap. Obviously we disagree on this point, but I am firm in that position. You are then submitting the junk article for links. IMHO, that is the epitomy of taking value without giving the same in return. People become territorial around here about their "method" of getting backlinks, and sometimes fail to see the similarities between their methods and others they might look down upon.

Sorry Tom .. I have proven this to be false time and time again ..

Not all spun articles are junk.. Sorry.. Fact is also many large media companies spin their content and have been doing so way long before the internet was released in the 60's..

Newspapers, news, magazines, many other places spin content and it is perfectly normal and not junk.

What is junk is spinning a article by word for word with some junk spinner that replaces words with a pre-set database.. Use the right tool and use it properly you do not have this issue..

James

[cormierl20]

in my opinion, SEOs should learn new ways of getting backlinks for their sites without doing it spam style..LOL..if youve got bright new ideas on how to do so just contact me! thanks!

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Sorry Tom .. I have proven this to be false time and time again ..

Yes but the point is that is in HOW you do the articles because there is no doubt about what Tom states. If you spin it to get multiple links we can all call that spamming too. You can compare it to news sites all you want. They may write several articles on a piece but its because its newsworthy. They aren't doing it so that another site will give them a backlink.

Article marketing is no less spammy than submitting an "about me" section on a profile page. In fact I have to laugh a little whenever I see threads like this. the modern profile feature has blogging, commenting and full blown article writing capabilities. Too many people have sold backlink packages consisting of nothing more than forum signature pages.

I come across sites every day that can and will eventually be much closer to blog networks and article directories and you access all of that through the profile feature.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Shoaib

Now, if you're not able to do that, and want to get backlinks, the bulk of those backlinks are going to come from what some call "SPAM".

Great post and really sums it up. In the old days the internet was a colloborative process. People just loved finding and linking to new sites. Its become big business and getting a backlink from a webmaster is hit and miss and mostly miss. Now you can get backlinks easily if you have a fairly robust marketing machine with thousands or even millions to spend.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Sorry Tom .. I have proven this to be false time and time again ..

Not all spun articles are junk.. Sorry.. Fact is also many large media companies spin their content and have been doing so way long before the internet was released in the 60's..

Newspapers, news, magazines, many other places spin content and it is perfectly normal and not junk.

What is junk is spinning a article by word for word with some junk spinner that replaces words with a pre-set database.. Use the right tool and use it properly you do not have this issue..

James

Gotta disagree James. I'm not arguing readability here. Just because something is readable doesn't make it not junk. What 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of IM folks do in terms of spinning articles is junk. What Time Warner does, probably not junk.

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Gotta disagree James. I'm not arguing readability here. Just because something is readable doesn't make it not junk. What 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of IM folks do in terms of spinning articles is junk. What Time Warner does, probably not junk.

As I said using the proper tool (that means a human controlled spinner) and no I do not mean human spinner or whatever junk website that produces articles that all read the same ..

A proper tool being used properly will produce 50 articles that are 80%+ in uniqueness and do not all read the same.. The reason why is the writer controls it all and not some system with a pre-set database.

I am not talking about readability either, I am talking properly spun content all together.. Uniqueness, readability, quality, and etc ...

Not all spinners are the same ..

James

[LinkBuildingRobot]

I've never had a problem with links from my company. See signature.

Originally Posted by LinkBuildingRobot

I've never had a problem with links from my company. See signature.

Exactly what people are talking about in this thread "spam" .. you just did that .. Maybe read the rules before doing any self promotion ..

Just a thought..

James

[Eleen Holloway]

Back linking is an essential feature to get popularity for your websites. There are several ways to get popularity like quality articles, quality web 2.0 submissions, quality videos, quality blog comments, quality press releases etc. These are the ways through you get quality back link.
Thanks.