Keyword research is not yielding many golden nuggets. Help!

[aprilm]

I am wondering if any of you generous warriors would be so kind as to share with me exactly how you go about finding successful keywords, those golden nuggets, those hidden keywords that nobody else has thought of. I am stumped. I am using Market Samurai, watched all the training videos on MS, bought the XFactor adsense course, and read Clickbump's threads. I can't seem to find a keyword that matches any of the criteria.

FYI, Market Samurai criteria: (as taught in the MS training videos)
at least 80 exact seo traffic
15% PBR
30,000 max competition
at least 30.00 value

All the keyword phrases I have found using the above method, either have too much competition (I am using Clickbump's method of needing at least 3 PR0's in the top 10 results) or all the top level domains (.com, .net, .org) are taken.

In the rare event that all these criteria are met, there is an XFactor site in the top 10 of the serps, and I don't want to move in on their niche out of courtesy.

So, for those of you who have had success with these niche sites, how in the world do you find your keywords?

Thanks. I have been at this for 2 days now.

[Evita]

Originally Posted by aprilm

In the rare event that all these criteria are met, there is an XFactor site in the top 10 of the serps, and I don't want to move in on their niche out of courtesy.

Now, that's an interesting take...

No matter WHO is on page one, and no matter how the site is monetized you will be "moving in" on those people.

I'd be re evaluating your take on this, if I were you, or don't do adsense.

I use MNF (so can't comment on MS) and some days there is just tough to find a keyword with matching domain. Other days you can find several in an hour. It's just how it goes...

I think the trick is to drill down. You can't be looking for all the things everybody else is looking for.

For me, I never do keyword research unless I'm in a really good mood, somehow it seems to help me find good kwrds. Also, if I get into the "all the good domains are taken" mood, I just stop and start up later. It is hard to find stuff when you feel that it is hard to find it ;-)

This is just part of the game.

But, seriously, get over the "can't compete with others with Xfactor sites out of courtesy"


Evita

[aprilm]

Originally Posted by Evita

Now, that's an interesting take...

No matter WHO is on page one, and no matter how the site is monetized you will be "moving in" on those people.

Evita

Yes i suppose you are right about that! I didn't think about it that way. (I am not very competitive by nature, but I suppose you have to be to do this kind of business successfully)

Thanks for the advice of not doing keyword research unless I am in a good mood. That's a good suggestion. I was in a good mood until I couldn't find any good keywords! LOL

anyone have any methods they use to 'think outside the box'? Do you begin your research with a general one or two phrase keyword and then see what other phrases your keyword software or GAKT comes up with, or do you begin your research out with a very tight niche keyword phrase?

[jayveen]

Originally Posted by aprilm

Yes i suppose you are right about that! I didn't think about it that way. (I am not very competitive by nature, but I suppose you have to be to do this kind of business successfully)

Thanks for the advice of not doing keyword research unless I am in a good mood. That's a good suggestion. I was in a good mood until I couldn't find any good keywords! LOL

anyone have any methods they use to 'think outside the box'? Do you begin your research with a general one or two phrase keyword and then see what other phrases your keyword software or GAKT comes up with, or do you begin your research out with a very tight niche keyword phrase?

I always start with a general keyword and then check the suggested lists below. That way you get a good idea of the other search terms people use.

[Jacob Martus]

Originally Posted by aprilm

In the rare event that all these criteria are met, there is an XFactor site in the top 10 of the serps, and I don't want to move in on their niche out of courtesy.

Screw whoever else has an Xfactor style site. Move in on them. I'm having a lot of success "moving in" on niches with other xfactor style sites...and I'm making money.

As far as I'm concerned, 99% of people would not be courteous...so why should I be? I'm in this to make money and if I have to step on some toes, I don't care 1 bit.

In fact, if there is already an xfactor style site on the first page...that should be more the reason to go for it. That means you can get on that first page rather easily and start making some money also. If everyone was courteous...there would be 0 niches available for anyone.

Go for it man. Beat out the other xfactor style site and make the money. That's really what this comes down to...making money.

[aprilm]

All great points, thanks! I was searching last night for 3 and a half hours and came up with nothing. Maybe my search criteria is too tough. What do you guys use as guidelines when searching for a keyword?

Minimum monthly search count? (do you use exact or broad?)
What kind of PR sites are you looking for on page 1 of the serps?
what kind of commercial strength are you looking for? (SpyFu advertisers)

[Jacob Martus]

Heres a tip:

Look at plurals of keywords you find. Sometimes you can find decent pluralized keywords with available domains and that get 2000 search volume or better. I have 4 websites with a pluralized keyword that gets around 2000 searches a month and it makes me alright money. Any profit for me is good. I'll take a website that makes me $15 bucks a month and only took me an hour to make.

[ARVolund]

For me the total number of competition and how many 0 pr pages in the top 10 do not really matter.

What I look at to determine if it is something that I want to try is the sites at 8-10 on the first page. If I think I can beat them then I go for it, if not then I leave it alone. All those other numbers do not really matter, all that matters is can I get on the first page.

Try not looking for that one keyword or phrase that meets your traffic requirements, try looking for a set of related keywords (5-10?) that separately might not bring enough traffic but together will do so. A lot of times theses low traffic keywords are easy to rank well for because nobody goes after them but you put a few of them together on a site and the total traffic is enough to make some money.

[lstoops]

Originally Posted by aprilm

All great points, thanks! I was searching last night for 3 and a half hours and came up with nothing. Maybe my search criteria is too tough. What do you guys use as guidelines when searching for a keyword?

Minimum monthly search count? (do you use exact or broad?)
What kind of PR sites are you looking for on page 1 of the serps?
what kind of commercial strength are you looking for? (SpyFu advertisers)

For my xfactor type sites I go for no lower than 2400 exact match searches and at least $1 cost per click. I check spyfu to make sure the lower number is at least .50.

Like Evita said, it can definitely be hard finding keywords sometimes and other times you can find all kinds of keywords. I look through online shops like QVC or Amazon or ebay etc. to brainstorm. You really have think past the usual things.

[aprilm]

Originally Posted by Jacob Martus

Heres a tip:

Look at plurals of keywords you find. Sometimes you can find decent pluralized keywords with available domains and that get 2000 search volume or better. I have 4 websites with a pluralized keyword that gets around 2000 searches a month and it makes me alright money. Any profit for me is good. I'll take a website that makes me $15 bucks a month and only took me an hour to make.

That's a great idea! I am going to look for plurals tonight. Thank you thank you thank you for this simple suggestion.

For me the total number of competition and how many 0 pr pages in the top 10 do not really matter.

What I look at to determine if it is something that I want to try is the sites at 8-10 on the first page. If I think I can beat them then I go for it, if not then I leave it alone. All those other numbers do not really matter, all that matters is can I get on the first page.

Try not looking for that one keyword or phrase that meets your traffic requirements, try looking for a set of related keywords (5-10?) that separately might not bring enough traffic but together will do so. A lot of times theses low traffic keywords are easy to rank well for because nobody goes after them but you put a few of them together on a site and the total traffic is enough to make some money.

That's also a very interesting twist on it! Have you done this with some of your sites? What is your CTR like when doing this? Thank you for this suggestion! I must not be a very creative person, I wouldn't have thought of any of this....

For my xfactor type sites I go for no lower than 2400 exact match searches and at least $1 cost per click. I check spyfu to make sure the lower number is at least .50.

Like Evita said, it can definitely be hard finding keywords sometimes and other times you can find all kinds of keywords. I look through online shops like QVC or Amazon or ebay etc. to brainstorm. You really have think past the usual things.

Thank you for this tip! I am also going to scour these shopping sites and see what I can come up with. I was out looking at furniture tonight and was mentally jotting some stuff down. QVC, Amazon, and eBay are great ideas! You guys rock! Thank you for helping me think outside the box!

[XFactor]

Originally Posted by aprilm

I am wondering if any of you generous warriors would be so kind as to share with me exactly how you go about finding successful keywords, those golden nuggets, those hidden keywords that nobody else has thought of. I am stumped. I am using Market Samurai, watched all the training videos on MS, bought the XFactor adsense course, and read Clickbump's threads. I can't seem to find a keyword that matches any of the criteria.

Grab a pen and a small pad and get off the computer.

Hit the malls, shopping centers, Walmart, etc.

Do not come home until you have written down at least 200 products.

Take those names and find micro-niche keywords with MNF or MS.

Build and promote.

- John

[aprilm]

Originally Posted by XFactor

Grab a pen and a small pad and get off the computer.

Hit the malls, shopping centers, Walmart, etc.

Do not come home until you have written down at least 200 products.

Take those names and find micro-niche keywords with MNF or MS.

Build and promote.

- John

Hey John! Thanks for that suggestion! I did that today, I hit the mall and Walmart and wrote down more than 200 products. As soon as I get a few free hours from being a full time mommy, I am going to research the heck out of them. I can't wait to get to the 'build and promote' phase!

I needed to take a break from the research today. I have been at it relentlessy for days now. I actually had a dream last night that the perfect keyword phrase was delivered to my house via UPS, along with neat little gift wrapped packages containing 2400 exact local searches, at least 3 PR0's in the top 10 SERPS, and a boatload of SpyFu advertisers. I think I have officially lost it!

I am glad you chimed in actually, because I have been wanting to get your opinion on something. Would it be detrimental to use dashes in my domain names if all the .coms, .nets, and .orgs are taken? Have you had any success (or utter failure) with dashes in domains? I have read some conflicting information.

And also, can you place me on the notification list for your ebook updates? I have been reading some of your posts stating you have been working on some updates.

[Gary Becks]

Dashes are a definite no go for me! Utter failure with them in my experience.

[aprilm]

Originally Posted by Embions

Dashes are a definite no go for me! Utter failure with them in my experience.

Really? That's interesting, I have read that dashes are bad for branding purposes, but for SEO purposes, they are not harmful.

[Altug]

Originally Posted by aprilm

Really? That's interesting, I have read that dashes are bad for branding purposes, but for SEO purposes, they are not harmful.

I've always read that they were good for SEO purposes too and know of many sites that have done extremely well with them.

I.E The keyword that I'm competing for. Check out the number 1 guy on Google for the term "build muscle fast". Lots of nice dashes lol!

On Market Samurai I normally pick a broad term. Maybe 1 or 2 phrase keywords. Then I analyze those keywords which gives me loads more long-tail keywords.

Then I check (tick) a few of the ones that look interesting and have a high search volume (I still keep it general at this point - Not looking at competition at this stage).

After I've finished checking the boxes for the keywords I'm interested in, I click "open checked keywords in new tabs"

Then I repeat the process again for each keyword (analyze the words seperately) which usually gives me even more variations of the keywords!

In here is usually where I find a few gems That's when I start trying to whittle down specific keywords by looking at competition.

Hope that makes sense - It does sound a bit confusing but hopefully you get the idea

It's a hell of a lot of fun when your sites start ranking...Sometimes even with ZERO backlinks

[aprilm]

Originally Posted by Altug

I've always read that they were good for SEO purposes too and know of many sites that have done extremely well with them.

I.E The keyword that I'm competing for. Check out the number 1 guy on Google for the term "build muscle fast". Lots of nice dashes lol!

On Market Samurai I normally pick a broad term. Maybe 1 or 2 phrase keywords. Then I analyze those keywords which gives me loads more long-tail keywords.

Then I check (tick) a few of the ones that look interesting and have a high search volume (I still keep it general at this point - Not looking at competition at this stage).

After I've finished checking the boxes for the keywords I'm interested in, I click "open checked keywords in new tabs"

Then I repeat the process again for each keyword (analyze the words seperately) which usually gives me even more variations of the keywords!

In here is usually where I find a few gems That's when I start trying to whittle down specific keywords by looking at competition.

Hope that makes sense - It does sound a bit confusing but hopefully you get the idea

It's a hell of a lot of fun when your sites start ranking...Sometimes even with ZERO backlinks

That makes tons of sense. Thank you! I never thought to search like that within Market Samurai. This a great idea. I just discovered today how you could open up a bunch of new tabs with the checked keywords. Great suggestions!

I am eager to hear what others have to say about the dashes as well. I have found quite a few keywords I would like to make a go at, but all the TLD are taken. (but the dashes aren't)

Also, I am curious to know how horrible it would be to go with a .info?

[Altug]

Originally Posted by aprilm

That makes tons of sense. Thank you! I never thought to search like that within Market Samurai. This a great idea. I just discovered today how you could open up a bunch of new tabs with the checked keywords. Great suggestions!

I am eager to hear what others have to say about the dashes as well. I have found quite a few keywords I would like to make a go at, but all the TLD are taken. (but the dashes aren't)

Also, I am curious to know how horrible it would be to go with a .info?

Cool, glad I could help I kinda stumbled upon this way of using MS with a bit of experimenting and realized it was a good way to do it.

Dashes are cool imo and from what I've seen in the engines. I'm a member of SiteBuildIt (as I had zero technical skills when I first started online - I've kinda outgrown it now though) and they recommend ALL members to have dashes. I rebelled and didn't though

I havn't had a problem ranking but my point is neither has anyone on that site and almost ALL of them have dashes in their domain.

.info's though is another can of worms. I'd stay away - Most of what I've heard of these are negative and I rarely see them at number 1 or first page. Maybe someone can offer an alternative point of view if they've had experience.

I know the temptation is there due to the cheap cost of registering the domains but you'll make that back when you rank with a .com .org or .net

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by aprilm

I am eager to hear what others have to say about the dashes as well. I have found quite a few keywords I would like to make a go at, but all the TLD are taken. (but the dashes aren't)

Also, I am curious to know how horrible it would be to go with a .info?

Can't speak to the .info question, as I've never used one. But I've never had any problem using dashed domain names.

Besides the availability factor, some domains practically demand dashes...

Top 10 Worst Domain Names Unofficial DreamHost Blog

20 More Unfortunate Domain Names Unofficial DreamHost Blog

[danjensen]

I'm always amazed at how difficult people find it to pull out good keywords.

My suggestion, start big before you start to filter.

if you are using any keyword software and Market samurai is particularly bad at it. Make sure you have a large list of words to start before you start to filter.

For example, If a golden nugget keyword is typically 1 in a 100.

then you need to search through 100 keywords to find the one.

BUT if it is 1 in a 1000 you need to either get 1000 words or get lucky.


My suggestion is to start with at least 1000 keywords for the area you are going to target. Then start to narrow down.

Google keywords tool is useful for this.

[tjcocker]

I had several .infos go from nowhere to PR3 and PR4 in less than 6 months. In the #1 - #3 spots on Google, above the exact match .coms.

It all comes down to how well you do your overall SEO.

[Gary Becks]

Originally Posted by aprilm

Really? That's interesting, I have read that dashes are bad for branding purposes, but for SEO purposes, they are not harmful.

Dashes may not mean much when you are targeting more competitive terms. For instance I have a site that is in the car donation niche that has dashes in it. I went with this domain because it was the only one available and I knew when I entered the niche that it would take me at least 8 months to a year to get the position in the serps that I wanted.

That being said, when I am making small niche sites I have tried using dashes in the domain also and they never rank as well as exact match domains with no dashes. I have 7 domains that I just trashed because of this. I think it might not matter with larger sites. But with micro niches it makes all the difference, just my experience.

[Gary Becks]

Also, how has your research been going? If you still need help pm me. I have more keywords than I know what to do with right now!

[nettech]

What I tend to do is just look around me e.g. in my living room, kitchen, bedroom and just type random things, drill down until i get a keyword. Theres an absolute abundance of terms that you can rank for.

Also, yo don't have to go for the 2,400 minimum searches. I took a punt and went for a keyword that only had 1,300 searches per month as my main keyword and it hit the top 10 straightaway. In fact I got both .net and .org and it now generated a few dollers per day.

once you get a few sites upa nd running, you'll be able to pretty much pickup from your gut instinct and a bit of due dilligence what you think will work and what won't.

Oh and don't worry about the courtesy part, as long as you don't do anything like clickbomb anohter xFactor site etc then its all a level playing field, its a race to the top which I think every xFactor 'student' appreciates. Just work hard, put in the effort and start earning that cash!

Anyway, good luck with it all.

Zaheer

[aprilm]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I did find a few keywords that I decided to act on, I could only get the dashed domain though, which worries me, but I guess it's all about trial and error. Oh, and there IS another XFactor site sitting in the top 10....so whoever you are, I am sorry....even though I know I shouldn't be. LOL

[aprilm]

Originally Posted by Embions

Also, how has your research been going? If you still need help pm me. I have more keywords than I know what to do with right now!

Hey there, I just tried to PM you, but I don't have enough posts.....can you PM me? I totally envy you for having more keywords than you know what to do with!! I can't wait to be in that boat one day. I will definitely pay it forward!