Tried to Warn Some People About Forum Links - Now you will WANT to listen

[Mike Anthony]

First off don't get me wrong. Forum backlinks are fine and will be for awhile yet. However I tried to warn people about having a pile of one kind of links and little else. Some people scoffed. Among those warnings were that sooner or later the largest forum developers would begin addressing the issue of links.

Its not my theory anymore. Its begun

Vbulletin the most widely used forum software that scrapers like to search for (and I do too in moderation) has released its version 4.0 at the end of last year. It had a little bit of a rough ride and they had to fix some things in January. I am now seeing more and more VB 4.0 installations. Why is this important? Take a quick look at the top part of the features that were promised for this release -

PLEASE NOTE THIS IS THE DEVELOPER'S SITE. SOME PEOPLE HEAVILY INVESTED IN FORUM BACKLINKING ARE TRYING TO SPIN THIS (HERE AND ON OTHER SITES) AS A MIKE ANTHONY REVELATION.

LINK IS HERE - vB 4.0 SEO Features - Blogs - vBulletin Community Forum

In short vbulletin is out to make outgoing backlinks nofollow. Their words not mine . I've read a few comments that they have in fact made good on this and/or that it is now easier than ever to make BB code all nofollow in the admin panel. I'll need to read more to make sure of this but rest assured when the leading forum provider talks about addressing the issue they eventually will and many other forum software developers will follow their lead.

What this means for you is that you need to have a balanced portfolio of links. Some forum owners won't upgrade for awhile ( this version may be different since VB 4 now has a lot more social networking features and a full blow n CMS add on). Some never will (but support will be dropped eventually and no respectable forum - Read there High PR - will continue using unsupported or patched software)but it is now important to make sure that some your best links remain in tact or you will fall like a rock out of your present serps position. It also means you have to start showing the forum owners more respect on how you link from them. mass autobot spammers will push them to make the leap to nofollow even more.

Its here people. Its not me allegedly calling chicken little anymore. The sky isn't falling but the days of mass bombing of one kind of link are coming to an end. Of course you can and I will continue to use forum links. They will have good effect for at least another year or more but if you have been relying on just a list of forums in your portfolio and if you site is propped up by that alone you are in for a rude day coming. Diversify while you can.

Or you can always wait until you see your site drop in search results

NOTE: Unfortunately people associated with heavy forum backlinking and those who don't like anyone pointing out the dangers of totally "mass autobot" spamming tried to derail the thread. Feel free to read on but if you don't have time for reading through flames just take the link provided for whatever you think its worth. Thanks

[paulgl]

Hey you're scratching my itch, sort of.

I've been railing against people abusing forums, especially
joining just to get a profile page, one post with a sig, etc.
There's just no way these links were going to be great
forever.

But, hey, the more I say that, the more people come
here and publish some list of forums to spam, er...join,
then spam a profile. Because this nonsense seems to be
proliferating at light speed, it's just a matter of time before
someone or some thing takes action.

Paul

[aprilm]

oh no. that sucks.

[Ohioquotes]

I wonder what Angela has to say about this. I keep debating (for the last few months) whether to send her 5 bucks per month for those great (maybe not so great now) links.

[Ohioquotes]

Also...not that this makes a difference, but that last post was not my first post.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ohioquotes

I wonder what Angela has to say about this. I keep debating (for the last few months) whether to send her 5 bucks per month for those great (maybe not so great now) links.

I've been hearing that Angela has been going mostly with forums and I was surprised by it, Theres no reason to give up on forum links completely but in order to keep your hard work in place and your investment in place you should never be using just one kind of backlink in any link building campaign.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by aprilm

oh no. that sucks.

Hi april - doesn't have to suck. Just mix things up.

[aprilm]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Hi april - doesn't have to suck. Just mix things up.

Haha...I know. I just don't know how to do that yet. I read about blog commenting, but honestly, I don't really know how to approach it and where to find the blogs to comment on. (high pr blogs or relevant blogs....and if the blog is high pr, sometimes the pages where you comment and leave links are pr 0) There is also social bookmarking sites, do you just bookmark your website's content? (trying to wrap my head around all of it) and then there is social networking...these are sites like facebook and myspace right? But aren't they nofollow? Did I miss any backlinking strategies here? ...ok, sorry to hijack the thread....carry on....

(I'm still new, can you tell?)

[timpears]

So the forums are going to make the links nofollow. All I have to say is, who cares. Google has indicated that they don't really pay any attention to the nofollow tag, and they were the only search engine that did follow it, but not any more.

Besides that, you need to have some nofollow tags in your back links. It would be unnatural to not have any. And the one thing that you need this to be is natural. If Google or the others get the feeling that there is something phony about your back links, they will ignore them anyway. You need to have back links of all kinds, blogs, forums, directories and what ever else there is. Some of them need to be no follow.

I don't see where this has made much if any difference in the situation. I am not panicked, and I would recommend that others don't get panicked either. Just keep building them where ever you can find a place to build them.

[Lee Wilson]

It's obvious that virtually everything will end up nofollow so what does it matter. Eventually either nofollow will become the new "dofollow" or Google will have to come up with a non link based algorithm. Spam and search manipulation will always exist no matter how the algorithm works, where Google moves, they will follow. Scare tactics are their only weapon, believing everything they tell you is believing they want to shoot themselves in the foot.

[Hasan Barbary]

Originally Posted by aprilm

Haha...I know. I just don't know how to do that yet. I read about blog commenting, but honestly, I don't really know how to approach it and where to find the blogs to comment on. (high pr blogs or relevant blogs....and if the blog is high pr, sometimes the pages where you comment and leave links are pr 0) There is also social bookmarking sites, do you just bookmark your website's content? (trying to wrap my head around all of it) and then there is social networking...these are sites like facebook and myspace right? But aren't they nofollow? Did I miss any backlinking strategies here? ...ok, sorry to hijack the thread....carry on....

(I'm still new, can you tell?)

Hi, April ~

Here's a tip you may find helpful: one of the easiest ways to "diversify your link portfolio" is to analyze & emulate the backlinks of the top-ranking competitors in your niche.

1) if you haven't done this already, get a decent free tool like the trial version of SEO Spyglass

2) focus on the Top 3 URLs (or top 3 domains, if 1 of them is double-listed, with an indented result) on Page 1 of the SERPs for your primary keyword phrase.

3) run Spyglass; take screenshots of the results (you can't save in the free version); convert the screenshot to PDF and BINGO! you got more link targets than you can shake a stick at.

Now, you won't necessarily be able to place links everywhere your competitors did. But a lot of times, you can. More importantly, those links sources are almost guaranteed to be diverse in type and IP address ~ because they are the backlinks that Google has determined to be the MOST RELEVANT, TRUSTED, AND "LINK JUICY" out of 42 million pages, or whatever. Those are the link sources that put the top dogs on top. (At least the ones you can see, anyways; but that's a whole 'nother topic).

I'm painting in broad strokes & simplifying somewhat, but do you understand how powerful that knowledge is?

Honestly, I think we sometimes make things much harder than they need to be in IM.

If every newbie seeking backlinks just applied the three steps above, the need for these massively-over-sold and over-spammed packets would be cut in half.

Ok, it'll just be our little secret.

[Ohioquotes]

Does the SEO Spyglass do the same thing as the Yahoo pagelink button on my SEOBOOK toolbar with Mozilla?

[Hasan Barbary]

Originally Posted by Ohioquotes

Does the SEO Spyglass do the same thing as the Yahoo pagelink button on my SEOBOOK toolbar with Mozilla?

It's much better.

[Ohioquotes]

Skip my last post. I just watched a tutorial of SEO Spyglass. Much more information than I thought.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by timpears

So the forums are going to make the links nofollow. All I have to say is, who cares. Google has indicated that they don't really pay any attention to the nofollow tag, and they were the only search engine that did follow it, but not any more..

My goodness Tim . What in the world are you talking about????

Do you have a source for that revelation. Thats one of the most ridiculous things I've seen anyone post on this forum.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by L Wilson

It's obvious that virtually everything will end up nofollow so what does it matter. Eventually either nofollow will become the new "dofollow" or Google will have to come up with a non link based algorithm. Spam and search manipulation will always exist no matter how the algorithm works, where Google moves, they will follow. Scare tactics are their only weapon, believing everything they tell you is believing they want to shoot themselves in the foot.

Well thats a close second to Tim's post. Its not only not obvious its totally false. Sites around the internet will continue to leave the nofollow tag off of many links. Because software makers will team up with Google to stop what they consider spam that doesn't mean that they are going to do away with linking to sites without the nofollow. Theres really no truth to your logic.

Its entirely possible to do away with Forum profile backlinks and even blog commenting backlinks and leave the rest of the Internet like in comment links in articles, blog posts and various other places with dofollow links.

Most of the Internet would be found just fine and the onlypeople that would miss it are people in IM. Total fantasy that this forces google to go away from links. We're just a little to deep into popular IM to see that theres a bigger world out there.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Layton

. Keep faith and just focus your mind in building up backlinks other than forums.

I'll still use them just not exclusively but then I never did.

[rogerbauer]

There are several linking strategies & tactics out there that should make forum links secondary (at best) anyway. Like many have said, mix it up and this shouldn't be a big deal ... just a blip.

As for no-follow links being viewed as worthless, I mildly disagree based on the following information from Wikipedia:

Google states that their engine takes "nofollow" literally and does not "follow" the link at all. However, experiments conducted by SEOs show conflicting results. These studies reveal that Google does follow the link, but does not index the linked-to page, unless it was in Google's index already for other reasons (such as other, non-nofollow links that point to the page).[8][9]

My interpretation that has been supported by my own tests: if you have the page you're linking to already indexed, the link can provide some value even if it's no-follow. Or am I missing something?

[4morereferrals]

Its here people. Its not me allegedly calling chicken little anymore. The sky isn't falling but the days of mass bombing of one kind of link are coming to an end. Of course you can and I will continue to use forum links. They will have good effect for at least another year or more but if you have been relying on just a list of forums in your portfolio and if you site is propped up by that alone you are in for a rude day coming. Diversify while you can.

Or you can always wait until you see your site drop in search results

Everybody worth listening to has been espousing link type and ip diversity for ages - why do profess as if its your revelation. No we did not hear it here first.

Any idea how many MILLIONS of pages that exist that currently, or that WILL BE CREATED that allow backlinks - profile backlinks, that are NOT on vBulletin? Google implemented the nofollow how long ago?

[J. David Rogers]

Yeah, SEO Spyglass is the bomb. Definitely worth using the free version, and personally I went for the paid version as it's really useful to be able to save and export the results.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

Everybody worth listening to has been espousing link type and ip diversity for ages - why do profess as if its your revelation. No we did not hear it here first.

Perhaps you can show me where I said any such thing was my revelation? Don't make accusations because you don't understand the context. Like I said in the opening paragraph there were some here that DID scoff at the idea that forum links had even the possibility of disappearing. Thats just a fact. I've been in those discussions. Thats who I was referring to and to be honest there have been several threads and discussions in multiple thread on forum profiles so much so that some people were equating all profile linking with forum profiles. Again Fact.

Any idea how many MILLIONS of pages that exist that currently, or that WILL BE CREATED that allow backlinks - profile backlinks, that are NOT on vBulletin? Google implemented the nofollow how long ago?

This thread doesn't have one thing to do with Google implementing the nofollow. Its painfully obvious you didn't read the OP. This is about Vbulletin 4. As for the pointing out other links that are not on Vbulletin. Isn't it obvious I of all people know that?

take it easy guy (especially with the accusations). I'm just pointing out some news that broke at the end of the year that hasn't been discussed. NOt trying to step on anyones feet.

[4morereferrals]

< long reply trashed > .... you can have the last word. I dont have the energy or desire.

[digitalstar]

I agree with basics of post made by Mark Anthony.

Yes, What he told basically is correct. We need to Build different types of links to our sites. Not just one or two types of links. Build links as many ways as possible.

Try to understand things positively.

[4morereferrals]

Originally Posted by digitalstar

I agree with basics of post made by Mark Anthony.

Yes, What he told basically is correct. We need to Build different types of links to our sites. Not just one or two types of links. Build links as many ways as possible.

Try to understand things positively.

And of course ... this ...

What The bigget backlink secret on Warrior Forums????

solves the problem

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by rogerbauer

There are several linking strategies & tactics out there that should make forum links secondary (at best) anyway. Like many have said, mix it up and this shouldn't be a big deal ... just a blip.

As for no-follow links being viewed as worthless, I mildly disagree based on the following information from Wikipedia:

Well, First off I wouldn't rely on an ambiguous set of tests only one of which supports that hypothesis when we are talking over 4 years old (wikipedia's references). Thats an eternity in search engine development. The problem of isolating out other factors is as always a problem.

Second the article cites contradicting evidence also so you (that a generic you not an accusation) can't just pick one and go with it. And third even if you do go with just one of the reference it still indicates that Google spidered the page but didn't index it. The reference article merely references another study thats links is now broken so I can't comment it. So wiki's direct reefrence links don't speak well for that conclusion

At any rate that all adds up to a pretty weak argument to spend time on nofollowed links. I don't thing the average person link building would want to to play that hit or miss game and based on what I saw even in that article its more total miss than hit.

I'm pretty confident therefore that nofollow is not worth building a link campaign around. Especially after reading the reference that indicates that in fact the page was spidered and not indexed. I think I am reading that right but you can let me know.

[happymoney8]

That's good to know. Building backlinks is like investing...always best to diversify and not pull all the eggs under one basket!

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

And of course ... this ...

What The bigget backlink secret on Warrior Forums????

solves the problem

WOW. I must have really stepped on your territory. Again it was not intended. I don't know what you sell (and you use twice the signature space as I do so its like the pot calling the kettle). As a matter of fact no I can think of two other products on Warriors that addresses this issue as well. So you are wrong again. I'm not saying that my product is the one answer that solves the problem. I'm not even saying that people shouldn;t use forum links ( please at last actually read the OP). I'm saying that if you do use a bunch of forums you should use other links as well. This isn't about my product and I haven't made it about it.

Are you trying to make this about products so you can get the thread deleted?

Vbulletin has made some changes in version four that people need to bare in mind no matter what they choose to buy use or push. Thats all this thread is about. I respectfully ask that you stop trying for whatever reason to derail this thread with accusation after accusation.

[Rysk]

The industry will create a new means for creating mass links, it always has...

A few years aho there were link farms, Google sussed them out, then there directories whcih now don't count for much, soon in the medium future signature forum links will also become devalued or not do follow.

Sombody somewhere will think of an alternative means for links, everyone will follow and the cycle will repeat...

[punksluck]

I can only assume that there must be something of substance in the revelation as I have just been told by the company that will doing my SEO that they do not intend to build ANY links as they are going to be considered worthless by the nice people at Google. Instead, they are only going to focus on wordpress blogs, article submission and advising me on how to change my page loading times as this is what's on the top of the list of Googles ranking agenda for this year. Anyone know if this is true?

[Lee Wilson]

Mike, I noticed you have changed your avatar and user title, was that by any chance something to do with something I said?

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Well thats a close second to Tim's post. Its not only not obvious its totally false. Sites around the internet will continue to leave the nofollow tag off of many links. Because software makers will team up with Google to stop what they consider spam that doesn't mean that they are going to do away with linking to sites without the nofollow. Theres really no truth to your logic.

Its entirely possible to do away with Forum profile backlinks and even blog commenting backlinks and leave the rest of the Internet like in comment links in articles, blog posts and various other places with dofollow links.

Most of the Internet would be found just fine and the onlypeople that would miss it are people in IM. Total fantasy that this forces google to go away from links. We're just a little to deep into popular IM to see that theres a bigger world out there.

You are doing it again. I don't claim truth or fact. I claim observation and questions, (that's how science works by the way). Everything that I observe (and the facts you get from Matt Cutts) is speculation and nothing else. We can do nothing but guess, test, and predict something based on the result. My questioning asks something very simple... If the Google algorithm is the driving force of their search engine and links play a massively important role, then why should we believe that Google want to ignore what will become the majority of them.

Google are encouraging all websites to use nofollow in places where we can drop our own links, I call that a majority. This will leave SEO very few choices and some of them will be paid links or our own link farms! - Didn't they fight this one already?. In science we have to answer these kinds of questions and all the questions that spawn from here. Every probable answer leads back to the same question, do links matter or not? If you think the answer is no, then none of this matters. If you think yes, then you have just opened up a whole new set of questions. It doesn't stop with facts just because you are ready to hear them.

Here's a theory, have you tested this one? nofollow is time delayed and links to one site aren't counted in bulk? I guess by your avatar that you must have thought about that one, what was your result, or is the test still running?

[Alexander CPA]

Saw this coming, vB4.0 will be on most blogs soon, I'm assuming many webmasters are not upgrading to vB4.0 because there are a few known bugs already, I'd rather not upgrade to a platform with known bugs/issues, I'd wait until they were fixed.

[DanielSanderson]

If all forum profile links turn to nofollow it will be doing you all a favour

forum links are very poor and there are far better more time efficient ways of getting much higher quality links, I don't know why people mess around with these crappy links they're waste

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by L Wilson

Mike, I noticed you have changed your avatar and user title, was that by any chance something to do with something I said?

LOL. I changed that before this thread was ever started so that would have been some feat.

If the Google algorithm is the driving force of their search engine and links play a massively important role, then why should we believe that Google want to ignore what will become the majority of them.

Because forum profile links and links in comments are not and never will be necessary for google to index pages. the premise is so wrong. Thats why I say we have to step back and look at things objectively. Sometimes we get so caught up in our IM world we think the world revolves around what we think is important. Forum backlinks are not important to the rest of the world or the Internet at large and believe it or not not even SEO experts.

Google are encouraging all websites to use nofollow in places where we can drop our own links, I call that a majority. This will leave SEO very few choices and some of them will be paid links or our own link farms!

-

Wilson again thats why I say step back and take a look. Google is not concerned about where people can leave links and outside of IM and this board SEO does NOT rely on forum backlinks or blog comments. Everything is not going to go nofollow. Paid links are not going anywhere because theres no footprint for Google to follow and theres no one software developer to change one script and wipe out a lot of links. reciprocal linking the same, in context links the same,blogs the same (That is actual blog posts not commenting), article sites the same, some directories the same. Independently programmed social networks the same. Places that webmasters want to have followed links will always be around. So the theory that that this going to cause Google to let it all go one day is false. Those are the "scientific" facts.

Here's a theory, have you tested this one? nofollow is time delayed and links to one site aren't counted in bulk? I guess by your avatar that you must have thought about that one, what was your result, or is the test still running?

???? Where and when did we start to discuss nofollow being time delayed and links being counted in bulk? Anyway Yes I do lots of tests but some I put as low priority because they've already been done. The Practice in the past of page rank sculpting shows that nofollow tags work pretty nearly exaxctly as advertised and even the links Roberbaur put up for wikipedia show nofollow not having an impact at all on serps.

Listen I take it that some people are getting offended at the news and its natural that people want to shoot the messenger. the take away from the thread is the same and its that forum backlinks is going to and already has taken a hit. Vbulletin announced that. they made the so called "revelation". I expected some static especially from people that have been pushing one kind of backlinks but I didn't do this or guess this about Vbulletin 4. Its there in black and white.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Alex Brooks

Saw this coming, vB4.0 will be on most blogs soon, I'm assuming many webmasters are not upgrading to vB4.0 because there are a few known bugs already, I'd rather not upgrade to a platform with known bugs/issues, I'd wait until they were fixed.

Yeah but they have already patched alot of them. and yep many webmasters are upgrading already

"powered by vbulletin 4.0" - Google Search

Vbulletin has some sweet features webmasters are going to want to upgrade to. The CMS addon is by itself tempting but theres much more.

[type-m]

It was gonna happen sooner or later and I personally don't mind at all. Let's see when other platforms do the same.

[Ohioquotes]

Speaking of SEO SpyGlass...Can you use the "link value" feature with the free edition? If so, I have not been able to do it.

Thanks.

[Lee Wilson]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

LOL. I changed that before this thread was ever started so that would have been some feat.

I'm not talking about this thread

Because forum profile links and links in comments are not and never will be necessary for google to index pages. the premise is so wrong.

It's only wrong if you think it's going to stop here.

Thats why I say we have to step back and look at things objectively.

Objectivity is where I excel

Sometimes we get so caught up in our IM world we think the world revolves around what we think is important.

Only when you rely on other peoples theories

Forum backlinks are not important to the rest of the world or the Internet at large and believe it or not not even SEO experts.

We agree on something!

Wilson again thats why I say step back and take a look.

Again, it's where I excel.

Google is not concerned about where people can leave links and outside of IM and this board SEO does NOT rely on forum backlinks or blog comments.

No, but by your same argument it does matter if you are continously chasing dofollow links that are diminishing by the day.

Everything is not going to go nofollow.

Depends how you define everything. Me, I use the word generally, and taking a guess (based on what's happening) that everywhere we go and cause a nuisance, they will nofollow. Spammers will always exist and wherever you find somewhere to put a link, they will be there sooner or later. Then what, nofollow maybe? We can't play catchup forever. The more we lose, the more Google lose if they are still relying on links.

Paid links are not going anywhere because theres no footprint for Google to follow and theres no one software developer to change one script and wipe out a lot of links. reciprocal linking the same

Right, but what happens when they become become the majority of links that aren't nofollow. That aint gonna win no spam war.

in context links the same,blogs the same (That is actual blog posts not commenting),

which will naturally lead to more paid links, that's okay, it means it gets even easier for us, not good for Google though.

article sites the same, some directories the same. Independently programmed social networks the same. Places that webmasters want to have followed links will always be around. So the theory that that this going to cause Google to let it all go one day is false. Those are the "scientific" facts.

For how long? A lot of them have already gone nofollow, others will copy, group behaviour and myths will lead many to do the same. The few that remain don't leave a lot of links to follow an exponentially growing amount of web pages.

???? Where and when did we start to discuss nofollow being time delayed and links being counted in bulk?

We didn't, that's why I used the word "theory" - sooner or later you would test this unless you believe blindly that everything Google announces can only be fact.

Anyway Yes I do lots of tests but some I put as low priority because they've already been done.

So you haven't confirmed them all for yourself?

The Practice in the past of page rank sculpting shows that nofollow tags work pretty nearly exaxctly as advertised and even the links Roberbaur put up for wikipedia show nofollow not having an impact at all on serps.

Yes but it's not a conclusive test, it's only examined some of the possibilities.

Listen I take it that some people are getting offended at the news and its natural that people want to shoot the messenger. the take away from the thread is the same and its that forum backlinks is going to and already has taken a hit. Vbulletin announced that. they made the so called "revelation". I expected some static especially from people that have been pushing one kind of backlinks but I didn't do this or guess this about Vbulletin 4. Its there in black and white.

It's nothing to do with being offended or shooting the messenger. What did you expect? One or two people might say "gee thanks, I wish I'd listened" my guess is most people are just thinking "duh". The blindingly obvious doesn't really require warnings.

Lee

[Hasan Barbary]

Originally Posted by Ohioquotes

Speaking of SEO SpyGlass...Can you use the "link value" feature with the free edition? If so, I have not been able to do it.

Thanks.

That particular "feature" is either broken and/or bogus. Your exact question has already been covered in this thread:

SEO Spyglass "link value"

Let's not spend any more time on that tool here; don't want to send this thread off on a tangent (although it's already halfway "off the rails". )

P.S. Ohioquotes ~ the Search button at the top of the page is your friend.

[bgmacaw]

Originally Posted by punksluck

advising me on how to change my page loading times as this is what's on the top of the list of Googles ranking agenda for this year. Anyone know if this is true?

Cutts has said that loading time isn't going to be a big factor unless a site is extremely slow as compared to competing sites. But, people have seized upon this as being a big factor, sort of like people not wearing enough hats...

YouTube - "Meaning of Life" - "People are not...

[tjcocker]

Mike, really? Why is it that just about every thread you've been starting lately is some kind of warning about link building? Trying to drive traffic to your sig, or just get your post count up?

Don't you realize that all the professional IMers will alter their link building IF/WHEN Google actually starts dropping our sites in the serps? Then we'll all move on, you included, like locusts to the next thing. So I don't see how this helps at all until such a time comes. Your thread title is pretty much a chicken little situation, or at the very least the boy who cried wolf. When the big bad wolf actually arrives we won't believe you.

Anyone that relies solely on vBulletin profile links and nothing else has to be about the dumbest person around. There have been a minimum of 100 threads about link diversity.

"(but support will be dropped eventually and no respectable forum - Read there High PR - will continue using unsupported or patched software)"

Just plain wrong. I know hundreds of forums that haven't upgraded in years, even with many newer versions are out there, for many reasons. They still have high PR, tons of traffic, and they don't want to change a thing. I don't see how you can make a blanket statement as fact with absolutely no real world data to back it up. All you have is your opinion on that. Sounds logical, but people are anything but logical at times.

[bgmacaw]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Forum backlinks are not important to the rest of the world or the Internet at large ---- Google is not concerned about where people can leave links and outside of IM and this board SEO does NOT rely on forum backlinks or blog comments.

I'll have to disagree somewhat with this. While people don't concentrate on getting these links outside of the SEO/IM world, these forum links are often important to a site ranking or not ranking for niche related keywords. These links are usually achieved naturally, such as people linking to technical information like how to weave a basket or how to wire a guitar pickup. Therefore, I think that it will cause Google's results in many niches to be skewed toward sites that have the support of link farms and/or paid links, ie savvy Internet marketing niche sites rather than fan/enthusiast sites.

Remember our discussion about getting links through link bait? What good is it going to be for me to create link bait, like say a nice electric guitar wiring diagram or a cross stitch pattern, if those links are going to be mostly nofollow? Instead, it would be more productive for me to put up a bunch of crap farm sites with spun/generated content or to buy links. I don't think that this is what Google wants but it may be what they get.

[Ohioquotes]

Hi Hasan

Thanks for the tip. I did search but must have missed that.

By the way...Philly is a great city. I grew up in Harrisburg.

[4morereferrals]

Uhh no - your ultimate solution to backlinks and claims to have the fastest backlink solution in existence - LOL ... are not invading on the MASSIVE territory that is backlink products - please dont continue to flatter yourself. Backlinking isnt a one size fits all endeavor and there are many ways to success.

Ive seen several of your posts on SEO and backlinking issues and the theme is the same ... everyone else's stuff is crap, everyone else placing backlinks is not as brilliant as you ... you've been blathering on about the pitfalls of so many other peoples works and efforts and ideas, and - as Isaid before -your backlinks products just seem to miraculously meet all the crucial criteria you're espousing as mandatory for SEO via backlink success.

You bust many a marketer's balls on this forum to "prove you wrong", and / or prove themselves right - yet ... do you prove your theories - anywhere?

If so, Ive yet to see it.

Im not really trying to make it about any product - especially yours - its about YOU, and your attitude towards others - majorly abrasive. Demeaning, condescending posts and replies - and from what point of authority you feel you come from boggles the mind.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

WOW. I must have really stepped on your territory. Again it was not intended. I don't know what you sell (and you use twice the signature space as I do so its like the pot calling the kettle). As a matter of fact no I can think of two other products on Warriors that addresses this issue as well. So you are wrong again. I'm not saying that my product is the one answer that solves the problem. I'm not even saying that people shouldn;t use forum links ( please at last actually read the OP). I'm saying that if you do use a bunch of forums you should use other links as well. This isn't about my product and I haven't made it about it.

Are you trying to make this about products so you can get the thread deleted?

Vbulletin has made some changes in version four that people need to bare in mind no matter what they choose to buy use or push. Thats all this thread is about. I respectfully ask that you stop trying for whatever reason to derail this thread with accusation after accusation.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by tjcocker

Mike, really? Why is it that just about every thread you've been starting lately is some kind of warning about link building? Trying to drive traffic to your sig, or just get your post count up?

I hereby suggest that anyone that posts about anything related to IM on Warriors stop doing so and remove all their posts if they have a signature link. LOL. 90 percent of the content would go poof! Where you been bro? I write about content ranking a site (thats right not backlinking) linkbait which I encourage and a host of other seo related subjects. Look up - its the SEO section. My thanks shows pretty obviously I add good content. I write about SEO because if you haven't noticed its the SEO section and SEO interests me and is apart of my profession just as IM is a part of yours.

anyway Thanks Tj I needed the comedic interlude. This thread is getting pretty hilarious with the same old crew weighing in anytime I write anything about nofollow. I actually got accused of being controversial recently here as well. As if the idea that nofollow really means nofollow is controversial in SEO. Too funny. this is the only place I can think of that takes such an aversion to basic SEO (and only a vocal few of you).

Anyone that relies solely on vBulletin profile links and nothing else has to be about the dumbest person around. There have been a minimum of 100 threads about link diversity.

Well I'm not going to call people dumb because their specialty isn't SEO but yes I have encountered many people trying to rank their site using backlinks that are almost entirely forum related. You haven't thats fine but again they are not dumb. As for being wrong about the major forums eventually running Vbulletin 4. Here take a look

"powered by vbulletin 4.0" - Google Search

Read em and weep. Looks like I have more than an opinion. Vbulletin came out officially end of December and look at the results (of course since the footprint is on several pages there are duplicates but its still showing an uptake.)

[4morereferrals]

The condescending tone and know-it-all attitude didnt endear our beloved Original Poster to a few as well. Especially since its a veiled shot at some of the other warriors on here [ the way I see it ]

OP is certainly not ashamed to express his viewpoints and "opinions" - even outside his own threads ad nauseum, so I choose to let mine rip here in this thread as well - no matter how unsettling or unfavorable our un-tactful they may seem. In other words Im not usually inclined to be this harsh - but ... turnabout seems fairplay.

It's nothing to do with being offended or shooting the messenger. What did you expect? One or two people might say "gee thanks, I wish I'd listened" my guess is most people are just thinking "duh". The blindingly obvious doesn't really require warnings.

[Andy Marco]

Domestic engineer eh? Where can I get an e-book on that then? :-)

[4morereferrals]

Originally Posted by tcano

why does it have to be 15 posts

C'mon man - your leaving us no option but to report your post count spam

[4morereferrals]

Originally Posted by tcano

That I ain't gon stop til I D-I-E

Good Day and goodbye

[mikkosant]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Yeah but they have already patched alot of them. and yep many webmasters are upgrading already

"powered by vbulletin 4.0" - Google Search

Vbulletin has some sweet features webmasters are going to want to upgrade to. The CMS addon is by itself tempting but theres much more.

It only goes about 5 pages into the search results, but of course more people will be upgrading. The fact of the matter is, webmasters will always be getting ticked off about other guys building links on their land without leaving any "real value". Anyway, the point is, diversify your links and you'll be just fine.

Get links where related traffic is already flowing. Then, if your content is any decent, natural linkbuilding may occur. At least you'll have a much better chance of natural link growth than on some pointless profile page.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by 4morereferrals

Ive seen several of your posts on SEO and backlinking issues and the theme is the same ... everyone else's stuff is crap
.

Thats a lie but you know what? I'm not going to stoop to trying to take apart what you claim to offer or your WSO. Let me cut this off at the knee and prove you wrong. I like and endorse alot of what KKchoon offers. We were scheduled to do some tests together but haven't had the time. Joe is an outstanding guy that recently launched a WSO. He mixes things up and we have talked several times about limiting package size and alot of other things. I endorse them both.

I respect the life out of Angela and have said so in the forum for the things she has done and registered surprise early in this thread that she would be affected because historically Angela has done a flat out INCREDIBLE JOB of mixing links. In some sense all that followed here are copycats myself included.

So I do NOT think all other sellers stuff is crap. Thats just a manufactured lie and not the first one you've posted either. I respectfully request again that you stop doing that.

Heres what I do know. Some people just don't like the idea of me stating anything about Nofollow, blog commenting or now Forum backlinks. Or you know what? scratch that. Its simpler - anything about nofollow or any link they use possibly being useless or near useless. Thats closer to it When I have hit on these subjects they get very defensive. I tend to hold my position and that makes them even more upset. You know this because your very first post in this discussion you came in swinging.

So just quit it. You are the only one singling people out, attacking people personally along with their product. If you feel talking about Vbulletin making backlinks nofollow affects you or your product thats you . Again I don't know what you offer and its not part of this thread. I don't even care enough to read through your WSO as you have mine. And yeah you can have any opinion you want. It is fast.