Bad Backlinks CAN hurt you. But only in EXTREME circumstances

[poker princess]

The common opinion is that dodgy backlinks can never hurt you. After several years running websites I've found this to be one of the widely shared misconceptions in Google SEO.

This is all from my own experiences and observations, I could of course be wrong, so don't take this as gospel, but I've seen a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Also it is only in extreme circumstances, so don't get worried just yet... I am certainly not saying that a few dodgy links will harm you and it is very very difficult to attack a competitor in this way. But a site not playing by the rules could get in trouble.

So Why Can Bad Backlinks Hurt?

It is true for the most part that bad backlinks cannot hurt you, but from what I have seen, Google does take into account the overall backlink quality when issuing a penalty.

From what I can gather Google typically won't do anything negative to your site based on a bad backlink portfolio alone, but in conjunction with something else (such as keyword spamming) it can result in a penalty. You need a lot of bad backlinks though - in the thousands.

One thing to note is that the more authoritative a site is, the less effect bad backlinks will have, but in that case their overall backlink portfolio will be healthy. This does mean that you can't try and de-rank a big site by linking to them with dodgy backlinks.

Smaller sites are more vulnerable, but like I said the site typically seems to need something else wrong with it to get hurt, again making it much harder for someone to damage a site through dodgy backlinks.

On the whole it is not something you really need to worry about.

Also there are human moderators which will look at backlinks and decide on intent - i.e whether they were from the site owner trying to game Google. Human moderators seem to be getting more common so this is something to be concerned of, and also there re-inclusion request team at Google will look through your overall backlink portfolio.

How Have I Come to These Conclusions?

Most people won't agree with me that bad badlinks can potentially hurt but I figured this out from speaking with experienced 7 figures a year or more webmasters and from assisting several people with recovering from penalties which helped me spot various patterns in how Google acts.

Also Matt Cutts has said Google only tries to ensure that site A can't hurt site B. He also says that penalized sites with large numbers of bad backlinks should start on a new domain rather than trying to get reincluded as their reinclusion team won't go through and manually devalue all the bad backlinks. Both comments from Matt are a sign that bad backlinks do upset Google in some way.

There's also a backlink over optimization penalty that Google issues on a one-page basis and it can pretty much effect any site (with bigger sites still being less vulnerable). Get a lot of links to the same page with similar link text and that page will drop down for that keyword. I've seen this happen a number of times over the past 2 years.

[hotftuna]

I had a big time money making site on page one of G for a very competitive term. It was on page one for years. Site dropped to page three and I started doing some investigating.

I found hundreds or thousands of new links to my site using my keyword phrase. I knew the broker who sold those links and my suspicions where confirmed-

A competitor purchased the links to my site. These links were not cheap. The link broker had no idea that the guy who ordered them did not own the site. He confirmed that it was a competitor, but would not give me a name- he was worried about being sued.

I was able to have the bulk of the links removed quickly and my site went back to page one. I think that the few dozen links that were not removed quickly actually ended up helping my site because it then ranked higher than ever for my phrase.

Bottom line- links can hurt.

[jazbo]

"The common opinion is that dodgy backlinks can never hurt you"

Nope, thats not a common opinion.

[The Copy Nazi]

I think you have a point. I found a few dodgy sites - Russian porn and poker sites linking in to one of my sites and everytime I blocked their IP they'd use another one - Proxies I guess. Google took my Pagerank from 3 to 0. Thinking these scummy inbound links might be the problem I contacted Google through Google Webmaster Tools and asked for a reappraisal. They gave me back the PageRank 3. I can't know for sure that's what was responsible but who knows?

[paulgl]

It is not common opinion because people simply
never believe google. They know better. Google
fully tells people to concentrate on things they
can control, not on sites linking to you. But,
the debate rages because people just know that
they can't be doing anything else wrong, so, it must
be google penalizing them for something. So the myths
abound. You can never reason these away
because it makes too much logical sense. And logic
seems to always take a backseat to the whole genre
of SEO by "feelings." In fact, I think I should make up
a new term. The "I feel SEO".

"I know it makes, no sense, but I feel.....therefore, I SEO!"

People confuse not helping with hurting. They can't or won't
do the things that matter, so, hey, not their fault, right? The
only one left to blame is google. If only google really worked that
way, then SEO would be a thing of the past. Some people are just
too pig headed to believe that someone elses site is just better.

Because that's what you all are saying. No matter what, if some
idiot wants to bury us, they will. No matter what great SEO we
do, we are just foiled again by those mean nasty people. Why SEO then?

Thankfully, google does not work like that.

Paul

[paulgl]

I thought I should post a follow up links:
Will Google penalize me for bad sites linking to me without my consent? - Webmaster Central Help
Please note the person giving the answer.

One more:
Google Defends Bad Link Theory & Repeats That Competitors Can't Hurt You

Google wants you to concentrate on things in your control. That's it!

Paul

[bgmacaw]

Originally Posted by paulgl

" In fact, I think I should make up
a new term. The "I feel SEO".

"I know it makes, no sense, but I feel.....therefore, I SEO!"

I call it "Cargo Cult SEO"

YouTube - Cargo Cult

[poker princess]

Originally Posted by hotftuna

I had a big time money making site on page one of G for a very competitive term. It was on page one for years. Site dropped to page three and I started doing some investigating.

I found hundreds or thousands of new links to my site using my keyword phrase. I knew the broker who sold those links and my suspicions where confirmed-

A competitor purchased the links to my site. These links were not cheap. The link broker had no idea that the guy who ordered them did not own the site. He confirmed that it was a competitor, but would not give me a name- he was worried about being sued.

I was able to have the bulk of the links removed quickly and my site went back to page one. I think that the few dozen links that were not removed quickly actually ended up helping my site because it then ranked higher than ever for my phrase.

Bottom line- links can hurt.

I think you were very lucky to get most of your links removed so quickly

[poker princess]

Originally Posted by Metronicity

I think you have a point. I found a few dodgy sites - Russian porn and poker sites linking in to one of my sites and everytime I blocked their IP they'd use another one - Proxies I guess. Google took my Pagerank from 3 to 0. Thinking these scummy inbound links might be the problem I contacted Google through Google Webmaster Tools and asked for a reappraisal. They gave me back the PageRank 3. I can't know for sure that's what was responsible but who knows?

Yes thatz right, It happened to one my sites too. But I could not get the PR back even if I removed all the links and done a re-appraisal.

[Shaun Lee]

Unless someone is extremely determined to kick you off the SERPs, I guess you don't have to worry that much.

-Shaun

[dmtaylor247]

I read recently that bad links to your site don't make a difference its just the sites you link to that counts, however if you spam keywords and someone complains then your in trouble.

[digital29]

Backlinks can hurt when they are from bad, banned sites or when Google is thinking that you bought them. Huge amount of backlinks on a new site will definitely catch google`s attention

[Alexandru]

Originally Posted by jazbo

"The common opinion is that dodgy backlinks can never hurt you"

Nope, thats not a common opinion.

You're right. A common opinion is that bad backlinks CAN hurt your site.
- Is it true?
- Nope...
- Why not ?
- Because it doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever!

The people from Google are just too smart to let such a thing "open" to be exploited by other people.

They can only not give importance to backlinks coming from a specific site, but they CAN'T punish your site for a backlink that's coming from a non-reputable site. If that would be the case people would just focus on building bad backlinks that link to their competitor's sites, thus ruining the rankings of their competitors. Anything other than this doesn't make any sense, so drop the bad-links-hurt theory and get back to work.

[jeswarrior]

What's up with this? This thread was posted at DP too.

[jeswarrior]

Originally Posted by digital29

Backlinks can hurt when they are from bad, banned sites or when Google is thinking that you bought them.

No S genius. That's pure BS without any evidence. That's how bad SEO rumors get started.

[mbphoenix]

Is is a good idea to "puchase" backlinks? I have seen several places, including here on WF where you can buy them, but I don't know if it is worth it or wise.

[Alexandru]

Originally Posted by mbphoenix

Is is a good idea to "puchase" backlinks? I have seen several places, including here on WF where you can buy them, but I don't know if it is worth it or wise.

It all depends on how reliable the seller is and on what sites your links will be placed. If it's on quite a few high PR sites then it's worth it, but if it's on some useless blogs then forget it. It all depends. Make sure you ask the seller for a list of sites where your link will be placed.
So, before buying take into consideration the following factors:

• number of backlinks;
• PR of sites your backlinks will be placed;
• service price.

[poker princess]

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

I call it "Cargo Cult SEO"

Can you please end me the link of this video, not able to view it from here. thanks.

[poker princess]

Originally Posted by Caville

It all depends on how reliable the seller is and on what sites your links will be placed. If it's on quite a few high PR sites then it's worth it, but if it's on some useless blogs then forget it. It all depends. Make sure you ask the seller for a list of sites where your link will be placed.

So, before buying take into consideration the following factors:

• number of backlinks;
• PR of sites your backlinks will be placed;
• service price.

Oh... I do a lot more research than this..I also check the sites overall history, number of incoming and outgoing links and also if its been blacklisted.Also how many backlinks that particular site has and what is their PR

[LancelotX]

so where i can find the best place backlink for my blog??

[poker princess]

Originally Posted by joelchrist

Nice thread, and definitely it would make some awareness of bad links to SEO people. Thanks for sharing wonderful info.

Yes by far, I am trying to help and get more information on this topic, btw thanks for stopping by

[hotftuna]

"I think you were very lucky to get most of your links removed so quickly"

Yes I was. The thing about the links was not that they were of poor quality, but that they were obviously purchased links. Every one knew that these radio station site and newspaper site links were being brokered by the largest link broker out there. Google knew it too.

[mbphoenix]

Originally Posted by Caville

It all depends on how reliable the seller is and on what sites your links will be placed. If it's on quite a few high PR sites then it's worth it, but if it's on some useless blogs then forget it. It all depends. Make sure you ask the seller for a list of sites where your link will be placed.
So, before buying take into consideration the following factors:

• number of backlinks;
• PR of sites your backlinks will be placed;
• service price.

Thanks for the advise Caville.

Also it is good to hear some clarification about the "bad links" theory. There is so much chatter about this subject is hard to determine what is true. Based upon what I've read here, it does seem logical that Google would not penalize you for bad links - so that is the theory I will put in my rules of thumb category.

[Steven Heron]

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

I call it "Cargo Cult SEO"

YouTube - Cargo Cult

Lmao so hard, this is the funniest **** in like... years. Cargo Cult SEO.

And also, "I See Therefore I SEO" LOL. Man. I think people are trying to give me a heart attack.

Btw to OP, please build backlinks to my site (in signature), penalize it as much as you wish. In fact, penalize it nicely enough and I might even pay you for your time (all spammy links appreciated).

And then some guy in the thread goes "So where I build link to my blog" I mean, god... my chest is aching now. This is like one of those B grade movies that's so bad you have to keep watching it because it's hilarious.

[gearmonkey]

Didn't JC Penny just get popped for bad backlinks?

[Giuseppina]

cheers for this good info! I added you on facebook, lol

[paulgl]

Originally Posted by Steven Heron

Lmao so hard, this is the funniest **** in like... years. Cargo Cult SEO.

bgmacaw is a WF legend. Sadly, have not seen bgmacaw around in
long, long, time. Hope nothing bad happened. Hopefully, just a
case of too much to do...

The Cargo Cult still exists here...

Paul

[smorse1]

Originally Posted by hotftuna

"I think you were very lucky to get most of your links removed so quickly"

Yes I was. The thing about the links was not that they were of poor quality, but that they were obviously purchased links. Every one knew that these radio station site and newspaper site links were being brokered by the largest link broker out there. Google knew it too.

@hotftuna I have a question about the service you are talking about that I would like to ask you - would you mind pm'ing me? - I don't have enough posts.

I have seen bad links kill a site first hand - no denying it. Call me misinformed, call it impossible, or whatever, but it's taken 2 years to get it back into Google.

[WDM]

its amazing what other people can do to affect your site. its impossible to keep the world honest.

[RevSEO]

Oh look, more nonesense thrown around about how links can't hurt a website......Sad to see so much fiction thrown around as fact on these forums at times.

Lets get serious here, there are links that CAN hurt a site, imposing a significant penalty at that. No, thousands of poor quality blog comments, or forum spam won't do it. Those services are dirt cheap and are extremely abundant. Heck, I wouldn't even worry about links from porn sites either.

What you really need to worry about is a competitor buying PAID links to your site from poor quality link vendors that leave a huge footprint. This topic shouldn't even be a debate at this point, paid links can impose significant penalties if Google catches you.

Proof:
GourmetGiftBaskets.com

GourmetGiftBaskets.com lost $4 million after Google penalized for paid links « News [Brafton]
Family Business Case Study: GourmetGiftBaskets.com Takes On The Giants – with Ryan Abood | Business Tips

JCPenney.com
SEO Takeaways From J.C. Penney Google Paid Link Penalty

That's not the only ones either, I'm going on very little sleep between flights but there's a good number of examples of sites being completely taken out of the SERPs for paid links.

Point is this, links can hurt your site if you don't pay attention. A competitor that has a serious chip on his shoulder can go out and spend a few thousand a month for a few months and put your site in jeopardy. If your site isn't highly visited/ranked or in a very competitive market then chances are you are fine. Although this risk is entirely possible for some members, so telling people you can't get hurt for links just isn't the truth.

[Daniel Evans]

Seems like there's a few opposing views on the topic!

[Steven Heron]

Originally Posted by RevSEO

Oh look, more nonesense thrown around about how links can't hurt a website......Sad to see so much fiction thrown around as fact on these forums at times.

Lets get serious here, there are links that CAN hurt a site, imposing a significant penalty at that. No, thousands of poor quality blog comments, or forum spam won't do it. Those services are dirt cheap and are extremely abundant. Heck, I wouldn't even worry about links from porn sites either.

What you really need to worry about is a competitor buying PAID links to your site from poor quality link vendors that leave a huge footprint. This topic shouldn't even be a debate at this point, paid links can impose significant penalties if Google catches you.

Proof:
GourmetGiftBaskets.com

GourmetGiftBaskets.com lost $4 million after Google penalized for paid links « News [Brafton]
Family Business Case Study: GourmetGiftBaskets.com Takes On The Giants – with Ryan Abood | Business Tips

JCPenney.com
SEO Takeaways From J.C. Penney Google Paid Link Penalty

That's not the only ones either, I'm going on very little sleep between flights but there's a good number of examples of sites being completely taken out of the SERPs for paid links.

Point is this, links can hurt your site if you don't pay attention. A competitor that has a serious chip on his shoulder can go out and spend a few thousand a month for a few months and put your site in jeopardy. If your site isn't highly visited/ranked or in a very competitive market then chances are you are fine. Although this risk is entirely possible for some members, so telling people you can't get hurt for links just isn't the truth.

I don't know why I'm replying but I just woke up. This will be my only serious reply here. I do hope you read it properly.

Devaluing incoming paid links is not the same as penalizing a website above & beyond any benefit the paid links offered.

Might take a while to understand that but... yeah. No more replies from me now.

Originally Posted by paulgl

bgmacaw is a WF legend. Sadly, have not seen bgmacaw around in
long, long, time. Hope nothing bad happened. Hopefully, just a
case of too much to do...

The Cargo Cult still exists here...

Paul

Yes he was one of the few people here that was funny and knew SEO. Long live the Cargo Cult for our discreet entertainment pleasures.

[peewhy]

If bad backlinks really do cause major ranking problems, everybody would be creating really bad backlinks for their competitors surely