Advanced SEO Link Building - Getting High On Page PR links in droves

[Mike Anthony]

Removed By OP

[Spot the Ball]

Cool,

Looking forward to this thread taking shape, white hat is exactly what I want to learn for longterm plans.

[inter123]

I am just wondering what the definition of 'white hat' is?

Is self promotion of any kind is acceptable to Google?

I was under the impression they wanted others not related in any way to post links counting towards SERP.

So myself writing articles on ezine et al, creating blog posts, forum commenting, etc all with the intention of increasing SERPs accepted by google?

[Spot the Ball]

Originally Posted by inter123

I am just wondering what the definition of 'white hat' is?

Is self promotion of any kind is acceptable to Google?

I was under the impression they wanted others not related in any way to post links counting towards SERP.

So myself writing articles on ezine et al, creating blog posts, forum commenting, etc all with the intention of increasing SERPs accepted by google?

I think as long as you are proviing value to your readers by posting usefull original articles/commenting in person without the use of automation to spam the internet with crap then it is acceptable.

I would ask yourself if YOU would find the content usefull if you searched for the term or would it be rehashed crap spun from 1 article plastered all over the searches.

[Marko Vel]

Nice thread, i like white seo and using it since i started with my online work.
Black hat for me is more like a hobby.

[Mike Anthony]

Just for clarification I wasn't talking about how Google views White hat exactly but to How Warrior forum views it and in particular to this thread

Has there been a change in WSO Rules lately??

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Spot the Ball

I think as long as you are proviing value to your readers by posting usefull original articles/commenting in person without the use of automation to spam the internet with crap then it is acceptable.

I'd agree with that but unfortunately even somethng that can be white hat can be made black. Like here you can leave a signature link . Its allowed. But there always has to be someone that has to take a shortcut and post with meaningless short posts. profile backlinking can then be viewed as spam activity even though there are people who only leave links on sites they intend participating on.

[Groovystar]

I've heard that for black hat the results are usually short term and the risks substantial. That even if you don't get banned or caught outright, the links will be quickly devalued.

[Mike Anthony]

Removed by OP

[Andy Fletcher]

Awesome thread Mike. I'll go add this to the required reading list after I've written this post.

Lately everyone has got so wrapped up in link building that they seem to have forgotten the purpose of link building ... targeted traffic.

So stop for a moment and consider how you can build links in a way that will build traffic as well. When was the last time you contacted the top dozen bloggers in your niche and offered to guest post for them. No, I don't mean some stupid 300 word article you paid 2 bucks for on elance. I mean a really well planned and thought out article sharing some really high value stuff.

The blog owner gets high quality content. You get targeted visitors and you also get a top notch, 100% relevant backlink. What more could you want?

When was the last time you wrote some meaningful blog comments on high traffic blogs?

No, not paying somone 2 bucks an hour to spam "nice post" across a few 100 low traffic, unmoderated blogs. I mean actually spend a couple of hours writing really well thought out comments on those blogs. Say when you agree. Say when you disagree. Hell, if you disagree strongly enough, write a whole blog post about it and link to it. Guess what, if the blog post is actually decent and not something you'd be embarrassed to pass off as a five year old's writing that link won't just stick, it'll drive traffic of it's own.

When was the last time you spent a couple of hours writing something really meaningful in a forum. Like say a FAQ! (hint hint) When I wrote the SEO FAQ for here I spent several hours hunting through SEO forums looking for questions and checking up answers. I spent 200 bucks on a great ghost writer to put the bulk of it together. Then several hours more editing the result.

Could I have invested the same time and money and got a load of spammy links> You betcha but I didn't and you'd be amazed how much super targeted (and nothing short of in love with me) traffic that generates.

Stop spamming and start contributing!

Andy

[Tom Goodwin]

Hi Mike,

As I have noted elsewhere, I think building up one's own stable of decent PR sites can be a very worthwhile experience.

It doesn't have to be that expensive. One could start with say, 5 domains or so. One can find PR2 domains as GoDaddy closeouts for $6-9. I do recommend getting IP diversity (c-class or better preferred), both for minimizing a footprint and for maximizing the value one gets from your network. I use seo-host.com, and if you get anything from the 15IP package up, each IP is only $3.

On the domains in your network, you can get links by either including links in individual posts, or including it in some sort of blog roll format, or both of course.

Plus, at the end of the day, you are building up your own asset base, which you can sell in the future if you wanted to.

Of course, all backlinking services, including posting links to your own dang sites are now forbidden as a WSO, so don't even try that

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Of course, all backlinking services, including posting links to your own dang sites are now forbidden as a WSO, so don't even try that

Well I guess theres a white hat link building tip in there somewhere. Time to get over it Tom and your signature links is a violation of the rules. You can't link to a site that promotes a banned product either. Feell your pain but if I can't neither can you. Lets leave this thread to going forward not looking back and complaining.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Well I guess theres a white hat link building tip in there somewhere.

Actually some very good tips, but to each their own.

[Mike Anthony]

Sorry if that sounded catty Tom . Its just the way the post ended with the signature link just seemed like it was designed to take people away from the thread to another site. Its a noteworthy strategy but its not easily scalable and gives you only links from your own sites.

[Groovystar]

There seems to be to be a fine line between purchasing an advertisement on someone's site and link purchases. People have been buying ads on other people's sites since the dawn of the internet. How do you, or Google, tell the difference? I have purchased advertisements on other people's sites before, naturally that ad has a link. Would be kind of useless if it didn't.

I'm in full support of banning the exchange of harmful practices here. I would never use X-rumer because I as a forum manager have had to deal with it myself, I hate it, so does every forum owner. I just am wondering about the link stuff.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Sorry if that sounded catty Tom . It just the way the post ended with the signature link just seemed like it was designed to take people away from the thread to another site. Its a noteworthy strategy but its not easily scalable and gives you only links from your own sites.

Well, its not super scalable in the orders of 1000s of sites , but while they are your own sites, google doesn't have to know that Its about the only way to know for sure that your links are permanent.

With how much people around here spend (me included), on stuff like SENuke, and what not, one could have a decent network of sites going to help give sites of their own a significant push I think.

[Daniel McGonagle]

You all should try guest blogging then. Go to myblogguest.com get an account and write for high traffic sites. You get the targeted traffic and some backlinks here and there.

Value-addING blog commenting is good, too always when done on the right blogs.

Link bait, or link magnets are good for getting link juice to one particular URL, which...while useful for that url, doesn't always passing juice towards other on-site content you want ranked higher.

Linking to related sites when appropriate helps, too, especially if those site owners become new readers or end up allowing a gust author post from you once they notice you.

Build quality Web 2.0 properties and use them for traffic diversion and links. One-page hubs and lenses are aiight! but making them into their own mini-sites helps with maintaining good scores, dofollow links and what-not.

Aside from link bait, "write good content to get natural backlinks" is pretty much a joke SEO myth, but spend more time on site content quality anyways, just find ways to get the content noticed.

Linkwheels- yeah they're effective if done properly, but your readers don't want to get bounced around from an EZA to a hub to a lens then to a landing page. Anyone who knows about sales and marketing and the overall sales process knows what I am talking about here. Reader attention span is low on the web, compelling content cna only bring your reader through a few different sources before they quit reading and go back to their search bar and revise their searches.

So make smaller link wheels and focus more on your on page copywriting to do more with less traffic.

Good thread Mike.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Groovystar

There seems to be to be a fine line between purchasing an advertisement on someone's site and link purchases. People have been buying ads on other people's sites since the dawn of the internet. How do you, or Google, tell the difference? I have purchased advertisements on other people's sites before, naturally that ad has a link. Would be kind of useless if it didn't. .

well the line on that is that ads should be for traffic not link juice. In other words ads should be no followed as far as the search engine bot is conscerned. Either that or Google feels you are manipulating the index.

However if a business relationship exists companies do link to other sites they are in partnership with I see it every day. So if you can get that kind of link I don't think it will be flagged as anything but white hat.

[paulgl]

Kudos to anyone connected with this forum from doing
good stuff!

This forum is to help people.

Anything that changes people and steers them to what
is beneficial is what this forum is about.

No doubt this forum's rep just grew a little but more!
(not that it needed it)

Paul

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

With how much people around here spend (me included), on stuff like SENuke, and what not, one could have a decent network of sites going to help give sites of their own a significant push I think.

Fair enough. Do you find that you can get a steady flow of domains that hold their PR after you resurrect them? I've actually found expired domains with as high as PR4 but they tend to lose their links and with it some of their PR.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Daniel McGonagle

Link bait, or link magnets are good for getting link juice to one particular URL, which...while useful for that url, doesn't always passing juice towards other on-site content you want ranked higher.

.

True to a degree but not entirely. You can strategize for the bait to be located in such a way that it gets links flowing to what you want. Theme designers for example tend to link to their home page and then you have to look for the exact theme. for natural links from articles people again tend to link also to your home page not remembering the entire URL. So you get a bit of both.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Fair enough. Do you find that you can get a steady flow of domains that hold their PR after you resurrect them? I've actually found expired domains with as high as PR4 but they tend to lose their links and with it some of their PR.

I tend to be pretty picky about the backlink portfolio of the domains I buy. Basically, I personally never buy a site where the PR looks to be tied to 1 or a handful of sites. They pretty much all have PR coming in from at least 20+ domains, even if they are PR2. Note that these are all expiring domains, but not dropped domains.

All of my domains held their PR during the April 2nd PR update. I even bought a dropped domain (that had a PR of 4 before the drop, but a PR of 0 when I bought), that went from a PR of 0 to a PR of 3 on April 2nd, with zero backlinks from me (no doubt buoyed by the existing backlinks).

Tom

[Fernando Veloso]

Hey Mike, Good idea.

Let's see what techniques warriors come up with.

Here's a little enigma SEO related: last couple months I've seen more and more "old school" techniques doing well - Again.

Underlines.. bolding... you know. Get back to 2004.

Is Google picking it back to the new Algos?

[Daniel McGonagle]

Well, entirely true the way most people are doing things.

But i/you/we know better, right?

Themes should rotate add additional links,

each theme or software download should have slightly altered footer links that have added anchor text.

If you can disperse and vary the freely obtained anchor text footer links from themes, then great.

You still have to figure out a way to make anchor text footer links for the term Mike's Link Bait theme lead to something that makes Mike's other posts and articles rank highly/higher for their desired terms.

So, yeah there's ways to vary, and randomize the anchor text, and like you said most developers link to home page then you gotta search for the theme, but I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth here, either.

Giving away software and themes is good for getting free links, footer links usually... so worth doing if you're doing something with the PR and link juice that results form this, like selling text links or something to make bank on the PR at least.

When's that WSO coming out I wonder?

Create themes
Give them away at XYZ places
Promote your themes by contacting WordPress theme places
Use Randomized XYZ linking strategy from themes to 10 sites
Sites get PR
Sell PR links at selltextlinkstopeoplewhothinkpriimportant.com

Do same for more themes
Try it out with software

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

True to a degree but not entirely. You can strategize for the bait to be located in such a way that it gets links flowing to what you want. Theme designers for example tend to link to their home page and then you have to look for the exact theme. for natural links from articles people again tend to link also to your home page not remembering the entire URL. So you get a bit of both.

[Hardi Wijaya]

I just bought a SEO company. I'll give a bit details of what my guys there have been doing for years.

* Own 100s of c class IPs. Not subnet.
* Give free blogging accounts to the members of popular clubs, if the members register domain names through us.


Hardi

[Hardi Wijaya]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

If you are not aware a lot of the tools and submission services offered in the WSO section that a lot of the discussion in this forum were about will no longer be offered on Warriors. (edit - Backlink packets are no longer questionable. They are out and against the rules of WF as well)

Btw, I'd be glad if you could make this clear. This is not due tools, submission service and link building.

It's about the Rule#7 which basically means this "Thou shall not break the TOS of the Warrior Forum as well as the TOS of other sites."

I'm sure link building products and services that do not break Rule#7 are still allowed.


Hardi

[tro2]

Originally Posted by Hardi Wijaya

I just bought a SEO company. I'll give a bit details of what my guys there have been doing for years.

* Own 100s of c class IPs. Not subnet.



Hardi

Is this truly white hat?

[Hardi Wijaya]

Originally Posted by tro2

Is this truly white hat?

Yes of course. It's like blogger.com which is owned by G.


Hardi

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Daniel McGonagle

,

each theme or software download should have slightly altered footer links that have added anchor text.

You are concentrating on links put on the theme itself. Yes you can do that and no you do not need to rotate the text unless you are trying to rank several pages. You can choose a main keyword for your niche and set that page up to rank the term.

When it comes to the directories you submit the themes to (what I was talking about) you set the link. Your choice.

You still have to figure out a way to make anchor text footer links for the term Mike's Link Bait theme lead to something that makes Mike's other posts and articles rank highly/higher for their desired terms.

You can do variations on the same theme or create new ones. Theres nothing that says one theme has to rank all your other posts. Besides I don't think I talked exclusively about themes ranking you. I listed and will list various ways of getting whte hat links and you are conentrating on one.

When's that WSO coming out I wonder?
Create themes
Give them away at XYZ places
Promote your themes by contacting WordPress theme places
Use Randomized XYZ linking strategy from themes to 10 sites
Sites get PR
Sell PR links at selltextlinkstopeoplewhothinkpriimportant.com

Do same for more themes
Try it out with software

Hard to know how to take that. Its usually a slap when someone mentions an alleged upcoming WSO. Lots of angry people on here recently. Epecially people who sell links and link packets and can't do it here anymore. Understood. I after all sold a packet here as well. However I really don't know what you are talking about Daniel. This isn't the first time I talked about themes. Did you see a WSO from me about it back when? This is ONE THING you can do to get backlinks not the be all and end all. Just one technique in a sea of them.

There is ZERO problem in getting links this way to any page you choose and unless you are planning a WSO on it I didn't even mention and wouldn't be selling or teaching people to sell PR links. Perhaps you didn't mean me but since I am the one that brought it up most people would assume you are addressing that to me.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Hardi Wijaya

I'm sure link building products and services that do not break Rule#7 are still allowed.

Everything I listed is out. The admins have stated they do not want to police each offer so all link packets are out and all backlinking services are out. WSOs cleaned out first and apparently even signatures may be removed when they get around to it. I believe even Link racer that claimed to have their own private network has been blocked from offering it anymore. Its all here

Has there been a change in WSO Rules lately??

[Fernando Veloso]

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Here's a little enigma SEO related: last couple months I've seen more and more "old school" techniques doing well - Again.

Underlines.. bolding... you know. Get back to 2004.

Is Google picking it back to the new Algos?

Sorry about shamefull own quoting BUT personally this is more relevant then using WP themes to get links...

Anyone saw these tricks on their top searches?

Or is it just me?

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Sorry about shamefull own quoting BUT personally this is more relevant then using WP themes to get links...

Anyone saw these tricks on their top searches?

Or is it just me?

Haven't noticed much of a change that has lasted. There were a few days where I saw alot of movement (more than normal). Sometimes I wonder if they are running some tests for their new anti-spam algorithm but its nothig concrete.

[Fernando Veloso]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Haven't noticed much of a change that has lasted. There were a few days where I saw alot of movement (more than normal). Sometimes I wonder if they are running some tests for their new anti-spam algorithm but its nothig concrete.

Mike

Over here I've seen some sites ranking top 3 for major keywords JUST using these tactics - so it seems, cause they don't have that *many* or *good* backlinks.

They go up and down all the time BUT one thing is for sure: they can keep good rankings JUST using old school methods - so it seems.

Next week I'll have some free time and will analyze them in depth to check whats going on.

Edit to add: Better, I'll use these techniques in one of our sites ranking not so well right now.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Mike

Over here I've seen some sites ranking top 3 for major keywords JUST using these tactics - so it seems, cause they don't have that *many* or *good* backlinks.

They go up and down all the time BUT one thing is for sure: they can keep good rankings JUST using old school methods - so it seems.

OH yeah. I wasn't denying that at all. You are most definitely right. I have seen pages I was working on move up pages by good on page keyword placement. I was only responding to whether it was new. Another thing I think a little under rated are related words on the page. Semantic indexing is pretty core for Google.

[Fallen_Angel]

Its great to see a post like this. Its refreshing.
Mike I think you have gained my trust.

[Shellaine]

I like the idea of getting the package from seo-host.com. I jsut went over here and i think it makes sense to get those ips different and build on a small network.
My only question with this is that... is it going to be good backlinking strategy? or do i get penalized as a network of blog farms or soemthing like that..

Thanks
Shellaine

[GeorgR.]

I want to chime in...

The longer i work with SEO and ranking my sites, the more i tend towards white-hat anyway - it's just better for long term success.

SEO is NEVER something you can do in a week or two, you need patience and sometimes it takes MONTHS to see results. Let me put it that way:

I have the impression that white-hat and CONSISTENCY + quality links and constant dedication simply pays off.

I dont think that X*umer and similar hardcore approaches are really there for the long term. But then i dont know since i never X*umer blasted a site.

I also use scrapebox but only for finding blogs to comment, and then i spend a lot of time writing quality blog comments.

Furthermore i would not consider article distribution to blog networks "bl@ck hat", i dont think theres anything wrong submitting to such networks like articleranks/SEOLV...all the articles provide value in some form. Your thoughts?

[GeorgR.]

Originally Posted by Shellaine

I like the idea of getting the package from seo-host.com. I jsut went over here and i think it makes sense to get those ips different and build on a small network.
My only question with this is that... is it going to be good backlinking strategy? or do i get penalized as a network of blog farms or soemthing like that..

Thanks
Shellaine

this might heavily depend on the blogs in the network. Google really hates "bad neighborhoods"...and i would not like to see an article of mine on a site which is spam-trashed by vi@gra and ci@lis sites and then linking back to me. Therefore such networks like SEOLV et. al. really need to have some mechanism to maintain blog quality.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Shellaine

My only question with this is that... is it going to be good backlinking strategy? or do i get penalized as a network of blog farms or soemthing like that..

Thanks
Shellaine

Just remember that Google has registrar level access to domain information. I'm not claiming they use it routinely but its not beyond possibility that if an issue comes up with one of your sites they can check the domain name registry information and link you to all your domain names if you have it setup that way.

[tro2]

Originally Posted by Shellaine

I like the idea of getting the package from seo-host.com. I jsut went over here and i think it makes sense to get those ips different and build on a small network.
My only question with this is that... is it going to be good backlinking strategy? or do i get penalized as a network of blog farms or soemthing like that..

Thanks
Shellaine

I was wondering exactly the same thing. I have seen this tactic used by several SEO companies and they don't even bother to hide the WHOIS data or even use that many unique IPs.

[Daniel McGonagle]

Nope, nothing catty, snide or whatever implied there....

Just saying that it'd be a good to seo this outlined somewhere.

Pay to have link bait created
Have it done in such away to boost PR
Sell PR links
Make recurring income
Distribute link juice towards predetermined places

The product lazygitmarketing depicts this in pretty good detail, not sure if its up to date or still relevant though

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You are concentrating on links put on the theme itself. Yes you can do that and no you do not need to rotate the text unless you are trying to rank several pages. You can choose a main keyword for your niche and set that page up to rank the term.

When it comes to the directories you submit the themes to (what I was talking about) you set the link. Your choice.



You can do variations on the same theme or create new ones. Theres nothing that says one theme has to rank all your other posts. Besides I don't think I talked exclusively about themes ranking you. I listed and will list various ways of getting whte hat links and you are conentrating on one.





Hard to know how to take that. Its usually a slap when someone mentions an alleged upcoming WSO. Lots of angry people on here recently. Epecially people who sell links and link packets and can't do it here anymore. Understood. I after all sold a packet here as well. However I really don't know what you are talking about Daniel. This isn't the first time I talked about themes. Did you see a WSO from me about it back when? This is ONE THING you can do to get backlinks not the be all and end all. Just one technique in a sea of them.

There is ZERO problem in getting links this way to any page you choose and unless you are planning a WSO on it I didn't even mention and wouldn't be selling or teaching people to sell PR links. Perhaps you didn't mean me but since I am the one that brought it up most people would assume you are addressing that to me.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Hardi Wijaya

I'm sure link building products and services that do not break Rule#7 are still allowed.


Hardi

Actually, not true according to Paul M. For instance, you couldn't have a mini-network of sites that you own, and then sell blog posting rights on those domains that you own. It looks like WF is looking to implement a "bright-line" rule without exceptions. They don't want to have to figure out if the WSO seller owns the sites or not, basically.

As for the person that asked about whether building a PR network is white-hat, sure it is. You own the sites. You are not violating anyone's TOS or rights in posting content to your sites. Of course, once you start selling blog posting rights or homepage PR links on the site, that will likely fall more into the blackhat (from Google's perspective) category, as Google doesn't like paid links.

As Mike correctly noted, unless you plan on only linking out to other adult type sites (which is fine if you do). you should be careful about the type of material that you put on your sites. That is, if you allow other people to have posting rights to your sites, I would implement some sort of content policy.

Tom

[timpears]

I asked Paul the other day about this new enforcement of the rule. And as I don't really understand it, I asked him point blank if a product I was thinking about putting together for a WSO would be allowed. He has not bothered to answer me. So, what am I to make of that. Customer service sucks, or what?

So, do I gather from this information that Angela, Paul, Steve, and a host of others that sell lists of high PR sites that you can post your links, will not be able to sell their products any more?

I can't see how these products break any TOS, but then just about any product can be used by someone to break the TOS of some site if they use it to extreme or not as intended.

I don't know about others, but I am a bit confused. And no one seems to be willing to explain it. Maybe I am just stupid, but rule #7 can mean a lot of things, and I just don't know what they are meaning.

O well. Sorry if I went of topic a bit. Inquiring minds want to know.

[GeorgR.]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Actually, not true according to Paul M. For instance, you couldn't have a mini-network of sites that you own, and then sell blog posting rights on those domains that you own. It looks like WF is looking to implement a "bright-line" rule without exceptions. They don't want to have to figure out if the WSO seller owns the sites or not, basically.

As for the person that asked about whether building a PR network is white-hat, sure it is. You own the sites. You are not violating anyone's TOS or rights in posting content to your sites. Of course, once you start selling blog posting rights or homepage PR links on the site, that will likely fall more into the BlueFart (from Google's perspective) category, as Google doesn't like paid links.

As Mike correctly noted, unless you plan on only linking out to other adult type sites (which is fine if you do). you should be careful about the type of material that you put on your sites. That is, if you allow other people to have posting rights to your sites, I would implement some sort of content policy.

Tom

The line of what is bluefart or not is so fuzzy, they probably opened up a bigger can of worms with that new rule than evident at first glance. (And yes i am absolutely FOR a cleanup of the WSO section!)

But...as for your example of "buying links".....what about "buying" an ezine premium account? From that point of view this is pretty similar to buying a submission on whatever other service...but would you consider putting an article up on EZA bluefart?

(Add: 4000 posts...cheez i need a life )

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

But...as for your example of "buying links".....what about "buying" an ezine premium account? From that point of view this is pretty similar to buying a submission on whatever other service...but would you consider putting an article up on EZA bluefart?

I don't consider any of the stuff that is being WSO banned as bl@ckhat, but that's just me. I do think that some of the things that goes on with article submissions are on fuzzy ground, but for whatever reason lots of folks around here tend to always put it up on some sort of pedestal which is beyond all reproach.

Now, if we were talking about how to hide referrers, increase article views by way of automation tools (or those services where you pay people to click), or how to defraud adsense, then sure, that's bl@ckhat.

[Hardi Wijaya]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Everything I listed is out. The admins have stated they do not want to police each offer so all link packets are out and all backlinking services are out. WSOs cleaned out first and apparently even signatures may be removed when they get around to it. I believe even Link racer that claimed to have their own private network has been blocked from offering it anymore. Its all here

Has there been a change in WSO Rules lately??

Hmmm... that means a 'whitehat' backlink offer is also out


Hardi

[hotlinkz]

Originally Posted by inter123

I am just wondering what the definition of 'white hat' is?

Is self promotion of any kind is acceptable to Google?

I was under the impression they wanted others not related in any way to post links counting towards SERP.

So myself writing articles on ezine et al, creating blog posts, forum commenting, etc all with the intention of increasing SERPs accepted by google?

Hi inter123,

Google's ideal view of link building is that your back links be acquired in a purely natural manner. According to them, this involves creating excellent content that other site owners will link to because of it's value to their site visitors.

"Examples of link schemes can include:

* Links intended to manipulate PageRank
* Links to web spammers or bad neighborhoods on the web
* Excessive reciprocal links or excessive link exchanging ("Link to me and I'll link to you.")
* Buying or selling links that pass PageRank" -- From Google Webmaster Central Documentation

Anything you do that directly involves actively creating links that point to your site pages for the purpose of increasing your ranking status with Google is either frowned upon, penalized, or banned, depending on severity of the link building efforts.

Surprisingly, one of the very few methods they don't bash is reciprocal linking! That's right, the same method that many marketers and gurus claim is useless and outdated.

"Reciprocal links by themselves aren’t automatically bad, but we’ve communicated before that there is such a thing as excessive reciprocal linking." -- Matt Cutts, Software Engineer (Google)

You will notice that the caveat is against "excessive" reciprocal linking and not responsible and beneficial reciprocal linking.

Another accepted method is submission of your site to the proper categories of general directories and specialized or niche directories. This would also include industry/niche specific sites that may be interested in your related or complimentary content.

[Hardi Wijaya]

Originally Posted by hotlinkz

Hi inter123,
Google's ideal view of link building is that your back links be acquired in a purely natural manner. According to them, this involves creating excellent content that other site owners will link to because of it's value to their site visitors.

The more G is looking for natural, organic links, the higher chance that it is going to slap its own face.

Strange things, supernatural things could just happen out of the blue.

Let's say a scientist stumbles upon a latest shocking discovery. The Earth is going to crack like an egg. No one knows about it. He or she publishes the story on a site, and 1,000s of news sites link to it almost overnight.

Is that natural?

Sheess... I really don't know how G is going to validate those links.

If G thinks that this is natural and whitehat, then it's ok.

But what if a smart guy gives this method a dark twist? He or she intentionally makes up stuff. Would G still think that this is whitehat?

BTW, making up a strange story can be very easy to someone. One of the top Twitters on Earth gets over 4.8 millions followers by making up stories. He's a natural make-up artist of unnatural stuffs



Hardi

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Hardi Wijaya

Let's say a scientist stumbles upon a latest shocking discovery. The Earth is going to crack like an egg. No one knows about it. He or she publishes the story on a site, and 1,000s of news sites link to it almost overnight.

Is that natural?

Pretty much. If you add content and particpate on a site its pure white hat if they allow you to have a link to your site. Pure White hat or Guest blogging would be a no no too. the problem here on Warriors is that (and I think rightfully so) the admins don't want to have to research the offer to find out if it really is white hat.

For example you post a WSO that says the links will all come from your network but really you include links from other sites as well. That would have happened over night. I could put up six or seven of my own sites say its my network and then add a few hundred or thousand forum profile backlinks to it. Unfortuantely they can't trust it to sellers so they are all out.

[kkchoon]

I think the discussion might be a bit carried away, let's back to the topic...

I think Kim Roach is the traffic queen for both Grey and White hat, check out this toolbox:

The Ultimate Internet Marketing Toolbox

Let me share a bit of my knowledge of White Hat:

First thing first - you must have something people needs, and want to link to:

1. Great Content
2. Great List of Resources
3. Free Stuff

When you have these things, you need to promote them to jump start the natural link campaign. To do that, you must promote your site to:

1. Social Media Sites - Digg, Reddit, Stumble Upon, Facebook, Myspace, Youtube...

2. Forums - Look for authority forum and start building your reputation there, put your site in your forum signature.

3. Blogs - Find related authority blogs, use Blog Comment Sniper to register those blogs and be the first to comment when a new posts found! Not only be the first to comment, you must comment on topic, in a unique and attractive angle to get traffic to your site. You need these traffic to jump start your natural link effort.

4. Articles - Instead of BUM marketing style of articles (you still can jump start with BUM marketing), you write compelling article that attract publisher, and you try to track and find who is publishing your articles using the article title search and Google Alert. When you find those webmaster, ask them if they want more, you setup an article database of your own and offer them.

In return when those site publish your articles, you get a link. Some site only want unique article, you can hire good ghost writer to continue pumping great content for distribution, but only authority site worth the unique content!

5. Community Sites - Some niche has community sites, you participate in those sites and try to get their attention with good information, sharing resources and build authority.

White hat method does requires a lot more effort at start, but they'll benefit you in long term. It shouldn't be very long before you can see some result, usually you can get a lot of attention in just few months.

Don't forget about the long tail keyword as well. Get a long term ghost writer to write those articles for you, post them in your site / blog, continuing doing it in long term. You won't see any traffic from these articles at first, but as soon as your site starts to get some good links, those articles will be come powerful traffic machine!

Think about this - long tail keywords don't need a lot of link juice to rank, when your domain receive enough link juice, it will pass into your individual articles; Provided you have a good navigational structure to help the spider find your content, and that way you'll see a lot of natural traffic pouring in.

It won't do you good if you just rely on these long tail articles, you need to capture lead and provide exceptional content to build "trust, relationship" and finally make sales...

White hat is the long term to go, but sometime I won't mind using a bit Grey method to jump start my traffic, once the initial traffic is enough, my content and link bait pages will continue to drive links... that's the best combination for me.

Kok Choon