Building Sneaky hidden links...

[Derek S]

I rank very high for the most broad keyword possible in my niche (think [dog training]) and I have watched a competitor slowly rise in rankings over the past month to the point he is right below me in google...

After deconstruction of his backlinks I notice that all of the links helping him really rank are all hidden on the page the link is on. They are often hidden with a style sheet and a basic plain page with only a single graphic will actually have 45+ links on it hidden.

I know this is blackhat and though google had put a stop to this years ago but apparently it still temporarily works and hundred of his backlinks on sites like this have continued to go unnoticed...

How can I get google to notice and devalue these shady links?

[theseoguys]

I am a believer in what comes around goes around. So if he is trying to game the system, he will eventually get what is coming to him.

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by theseoguys

I am a believer in what comes around goes around. So if he is trying to game the system, he will eventually get what is coming to him.

Could not agree more but waiting around for this to happen who knows when and doing nothing is not how I stay on top of my market.

I found the link where you can report abuse like this to google and there is even a checkbox for "hidden links"

Now my plan is not reporting my competitor but rather the sites who are actively selling hidden links on their pages.

Here is the link to report spam to Google: http://www.google.com/contact/spamreport.html

[yukon]

Lol, at reporting someone to G for hidden links, that's kinda petty don't ya think?

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by yukon

Lol, at reporting someone to G for hidden links, that's kinda petty don't ya think?

How would it feel to come in second at the Olympics to someone who used steroids to win after years of doing everything the way you should and working hard?

This is my business, my income and my future. I wont ignore all that just not to come off "petty" to a black hat marketer, would you?

[jazbo]

Google will ignore it.

In the real online world, you have to suck it up and do what everyone else does to succeed.

Sorry but thats reality.

[yukon]

Originally Posted by Derek S

How would it feel to come in second at the Olympics to someone who used steroids to win after years of doing everything the way you should and working hard?

This is my business, my income and my future. I wont ignore all that just not to come off "petty" to a black hat marketer, would you?

This is the internet, rules/regulations don't apply towards seo.

I understand what your saying about someone closing in on your SERP position, & how that relates to profits.

Still, anyone in a #1 SERP position doesn't have any more rights to that position than the next guy, white hat or B hat.

If this guy goes away, you'll always have another guy trying to get that #1 position, & a lot of folks will do whatever it takes to get that position.

If it was me I would be trying to reinforce my site, I would pick about 5 of my internal pages & start building a bunch of new relevant external backlinks. Double check my on page seo.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Derek S

How would it feel to come in second at the Olympics to someone who used steroids to win after years of doing everything the way you should and working hard?

I certainly wouldn't pull a Landis and rat anyone out. As they say, snitches get stitches ;-)

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by jazbo

In the real online world, you have to suck it up and do what everyone else does to succeed.

Sorry but thats reality.

Malarkey. The OP IS relating what happens in the real world. You game the system your competitors are going to report you. They are not obliged to join you. So when they report you then you suck it up because thats the real reality.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Derek S

This is my business, my income and my future. I wont ignore all that just not to come off "petty" to a black hat marketer, would you?

You should have known who you were asking that question to though. LOL.

But of course you are right. Ignore the advice you are getting in this thread. I don't know that the links being invisible is really the boost but listen - if these guys think a webmaster that doesn't do black hat is going to lose a few thousand bucks or even a few hundred because they give a rip about a spammer calling them a snitch they are living in a dream world. Thats like a pimp calling you unethical because your reported one of his ahem - employees on your street. Let it roll off your back. Who cares the dudes a pimp

This is a recurring nonsense argument made every few months here. You can't blatantly ignore the ethics of the majority and then beg on bended knees that they should obey your ethics on so called snitching. its the silliest argument even made on these boards.

Now you don't have go reporting every violation like a cop but if its overt,blatant and forces you to join their game because you are losing income then of course you are right. They are the ones that need to adjust to that reality. At some point switch over to some white hat so that when Google comes looking at least it sees some good stuff.

Stop begging that the world should accept your behavior. They won't and Google ain't your site so you have no rights. Complaining about snitching is for those who don't know any other way of doing SEO.

[yukon]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You should have known who you were asking that question to though. LOL.

But of course you are right. Ignore the advice you are getting in this thread. I don't know that the links being invisible is really the boost but listen - if these guys think a webmaster that doesn't do black hat is going to lose a few thousand bucks or even a few hundred because they give a rip about a spammer calling them a snitch they are living in a dream world. Thats like a pimp calling you unethical because your reported one of his ahem - employees on your street. Let it roll off your back. Who cares the dudes a pimp

This is a recurring nonsense argument made every few months here. You can't blatantly ignore the ethics of the majority and then beg on bended knees that they should obey your ethics on so called snitching. its the silliest argument even made on these boards.

Now you don't have go reporting every violation like a cop but if its overt,blatant and forces you to join their game because you are losing income then of course you are right. They are the ones that need to adjust to that reality. At some point switch over to some white hat so that when Google comes looking at least it sees some good stuff.

Have at it, go running to Google see how they react.

Let's see here, the #1 position is going to nark on someone that's about to bump him from that #1 spot. Don't be surprised when G laughs while hitting the delete button for that report.

The only nonsense is promoting the "Let's run & tell on someone mentality".

Meanwhile while Google is still laughing, that guy in the background will be passing you like he has a Ferrari, it's the autobahn, & your driving a Ford Pinto.

Hope your wearing a flame retardant suit in that Pinto.

Good luck...

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by yukon

Have at it, go running to Google see how they react.

You are sounding a bit scared Yukon. This aint no SEO noob here. We both know sites have disappeared from the index so the idea that they ignore all spam reports is a real laugher.

ferrari? LOL

Check the serps man how many mainline industries do you see ranking mainly on the power of spam. the real SEO types buy links in such a way you would never see anything amiss at their link sites. These are rank amateurs the OP is talking about. Don't give me viagra, backlinks, porn or some long tail niche Google couldn't care a rip about either. Give me a strong mainline business ranking on just spam links.

I'm no saint by these boards standards for sure but if you really think you are going to bump anyone that isn't involved in spam and they are just going to sit there and take it or join you in spamming you are living in a dream world. I'm prepared to live with consequences when they are real not whine about reality. Google comes a looking then you ought to have some balance. They don't have the time to dig through all your links but if all of them they do see are spammy then you are going to have to live with that not whine that your competitor didn't take the loss in income.

Sure they can't examine every spam report but by the time they figure out whose in first place and whose in second you are already on their radar. what you have to hope for is that they don't even get that far on your case.

"The only nonsense is promoting the "Let's run & tell on someone mentality".


Ummm, No one has to promote it. Google routinely asks for the reports.

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by yukon

Have at it, go running to Google see how they react.

Let's see here, the #1 position is going to nark on someone that's about to bump him from that #1 spot. Don't be surprised when G laughs while hitting the delete button for that report.

The only nonsense is promoting the "Let's run & tell on someone mentality".

Meanwhile while Google is still laughing, that guy in the background will be passing you like he has a Ferrari, it's the autobahn, & your driving a Ford Pinto.

Hope your wearing a flame retardant suit in that Pinto.

Good luck...

A very creative and imaginary response filled with no facts... But this is a public forum so i'm not going to waist time arguing your opinions over mine - Because in the end it always comes down to "lets both agree to disagree"

The original post was just asking how to report them. I was not looking for opinions on if I should or not, nor looking for approval to do so... Turning this into a playground brawl...

I'm not "Narking" out my competitor at all, only the sites linking to him who are going against Googles best search practices. In Stompernet a few years back (2005 I believe) I had watched Andy Jenkins do his backlink research and come across a direct competitor using the same kind of methods to rank. Without hesitation he was determined to report them to google. This is coming from a guy who has maintained top search rankings for the same sites for years now.

Now I can send the report off to Google and they may in fact do nothing about it. I know google takes this far more serious than you would lead people on here to believe but it is something worth a shot doing for the good of my business.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Ignore the advice you are getting in this thread.

Or perhaps just ignore this advice ^^^^^^^^^

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

This is a recurring nonsense argument made every few months here. You can't blatantly ignore the ethics of the majority and then beg on bended knees that they should obey your ethics on so called snitching. its the silliest argument even made on these boards.

Actually, it is just your objection to the position that is the recurring nonsense in these threads

Are we talking about watching some guy do a hit and run? Nope
Are we talking about some guy stealing from a bank? Nope
Are we talking about some guy breaking the law? Nope

If someone is not breaking the law, I have no business going over their head and reporting anyone, period. Obviously you have different ethical standards. I'm just telling you about the values that I was raised with and the ones I will carry with me to my grave.

You can do whatever you want, but i'm not pushing that damn little button.

Tom

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Derek S

In Stompernet a few years back (2005 I believe) I had watched Andy Jenkins do his backlink research and come across a direct competitor using the same kind of methods to rank. Without hesitation he was determined to report them to google. This is coming from a guy who has maintained top search rankings for the same sites for years now.

So that justifies it? What he did was crap. In any event, Stompernet isn't exactly the epicenter of wise business practices. I would post the links but the mod police would whack this thread in 2 heartbeats.

Tom

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

snitching is for those who don't know any other way of doing SEO.

FYP

....

In any event, you guys can do whatever you want. I'll keep on worrying that my own sh!t don't stank rather than other peoples' sh!t.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Obviously you have different ethical standards.

Captain obvious

I'm just telling you about the values that I was raised with and the ones I will carry with me to my grave.

Now when did Mommy and daddy ever tell you to spam? Take it from me Parents just don't understand

You can do whatever you want, but i'm not pushing that damn little button.

Why would you it might bring on a review. I wouldn't either

and if the OP was talking about you or for you then it would have been relevant. The bad news is that you know full well others will do so and could care less about your ethical values just as you don't give a rip about the ethical values of those that don't agree with spam blasts. Alls fair in love and war (and biz). Whining about the whining is still whining.

Bottom line is neither you nor I are in any position to lecture on ethics. Undeniable facts - people who don't do spam have no reason to listen to you wax on about ethics . Its like a lawyer or politician complaining about lying and the lack of openness.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Its like a lawyer or politician complaining about lying and the lack of openness.

You even had to throw in a jab about lawyers

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

You even had to throw in a jab about lawyers

NO jab. Illustration. You are forgetting that I said I am no boyscout by some people's standards either. I just lean more white hat down the road since I know perfectly well that what you say a lot isn't really true. You can't rank for any and every term with spam. Not unless you want to live with the possibility that your money page will go dark in the night.

[paulgl]

Sports analogies are kind of iffy. What I mean is, look at the way people trained
and ran in 1932. Look at the shoes. Look at the outfits. Look at the training methods.

Then look at the high tech shoes, track surface, high tech track outfits, etc. Doesn't
this all lead to unnatural scores and times? To me it does. But times change...steroids
have changed the game very little compared to other advances in athletics. Shoes
probably the biggest. But rules are rules, I agree.

Google is bound by no rules.

As far as this site and hidden links, you are assuming the links are helping.

I would argue they have no bearing. Not hurting is not the same thing as helping.
The links are probably 100% worthless.

People try and deduce as to why a site moves up. You can't. But people here seem
to jump on the number of backlinks as the reason. It's not. Google loves some
sites and gives authority for reasons we can never know 100% for sure.

Sometimes people just can't take the fact that google likes a particular site.
As if google cares if you have followed some list and demand justice.

Paul