A curious ranking observation

drmattnd · 10-27-2010, 12:11 AM

As my practice and website revolve heavily around nutrition, I thought it would be a good idea to participate in discussion boards on that topic.

A few days ago I found a fantastic forum hosted by CrossFit. Highly recommended for anybody interested in fitness and nutrition.

Anyhow, curious to see what google would serve up on a search for "nutrition discussion forum" my forum of choice was listed at #5 today. Not bad. Now I can see why #2, 3, and 4 are there. . . but the #1 spot goes to BeverlyNutrition.com.

Crossfit.com has an Alexa traffic rank of 10,793 with 1,479 sites linking in.

Beverlynutrition.com has an Alexa traffic rank of 5,343,188 with 6 sites linking in.

Now what would make Google think that Beverlynutrition.com is the top dish of the day?

joelraitt · 10-27-2010, 12:14 AM

prob better on site seo, aged domain, maybe they targeted that exact kw? maybe those are some bad ass 6 links

maybe it owned by google...haha jkjk

those r my guesses

marieluy143 · 10-27-2010, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmattnd

As my practice and website revolve heavily around nutrition, I thought it would be a good idea to participate in discussion boards on that topic.

A few days ago I found a fantastic forum hosted by CrossFit. Highly recommended for anybody interested in fitness and nutrition.

Anyhow, curious to see what google would serve up on a search for "nutrition discussion forum" my forum of choice was listed at #5 today. Not bad. Now I can see why #2, 3, and 4 are there. . . but the #1 spot goes to BeverlyNutrition.com.

Crossfit.com has an Alexa traffic rank of 10,793 with 1,479 sites linking in.

Beverlynutrition.com has an Alexa traffic rank of 5,343,188 with 6 sites linking in.

Now what would make Google think that Beverlynutrition.com is the top dish of the day?

more SEO efforts I guess, content + quality backlink..

craigcdz · 10-27-2010, 04:44 AM

Well, having an old domain name and the website being the search engine + user friendly may be the reason behind all this...Traffic can be a factor also...

Google.me · 10-27-2010, 05:24 AM

Crossfit.com domain backend moves around alot and hasnt been around longer than Beverlynutrition.com domain.

Crossfit.com is also a vbulletine site where alot of spammers like too hang out

drmattnd · 10-27-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Google.me

Crossfit.com domain backend moves around alot

Please explain further about what you mean by "domain backend" and how you were able to determine that it moves around a lotl

Google.me · 10-27-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmattnd

Please explain further about what you mean by "domain backend" and how you were able to determine that it moves around a lotl

whois statistics- easy

JoeMbulu · 10-27-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmattnd

As my practice and website revolve heavily around nutrition, I thought it would be a good idea to participate in discussion boards on that topic.

A few days ago I found a fantastic forum hosted by CrossFit. Highly recommended for anybody interested in fitness and nutrition.

Anyhow, curious to see what google would serve up on a search for "nutrition discussion forum" my forum of choice was listed at #5 today. Not bad. Now I can see why #2, 3, and 4 are there. . . but the #1 spot goes to BeverlyNutrition.com.

Crossfit.com has an Alexa traffic rank of 10,793 with 1,479 sites linking in.

Beverlynutrition.com has an Alexa traffic rank of 5,343,188 with 6 sites linking in.

Now what would make Google think that Beverlynutrition.com is the top dish of the day?

I think you should develop your own nutrition forum and easily outrank them as neither site has good SEO.

Jacob Martus · 10-27-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmattnd

As my practice and website revolve heavily around nutrition, I thought it would be a good idea to participate in discussion boards on that topic.

A few days ago I found a fantastic forum hosted by CrossFit. Highly recommended for anybody interested in fitness and nutrition.

Anyhow, curious to see what google would serve up on a search for "nutrition discussion forum" my forum of choice was listed at #5 today. Not bad. Now I can see why #2, 3, and 4 are there. . . but the #1 spot goes to BeverlyNutrition.com.

Crossfit.com has an Alexa traffic rank of 10,793 with 1,479 sites linking in.

Beverlynutrition.com has an Alexa traffic rank of 5,343,188 with 6 sites linking in.

Now what would make Google think that Beverlynutrition.com is the top dish of the day?

More and better inbound links. That's probably the answer you're looking for.

Corvinus · 10-27-2010, 05:12 PM

They just targeted the keywords well in their anchor text that's why they outrank Crossfit.com.

dburk · 10-27-2010, 08:44 PM

Hi drmattnd,

Google ranks results based on relevance. Just look at the on-page SEO and you will see beverlynutrition is optimized for the keyword and crossfit isn't. There is no need to look beyond that, it explains why one page is ranking better than the other.

RegalWeb · 10-27-2010, 09:13 PM

There are few things to be considered.

(1)The age of the domain. The older the more it gains credibility among Internet users.

(2) Site listings. Is it listed in DMOZ? Yahoo Directory? Google Maps?

(3) Meta Tags. Is the meta title, keyword and description suited for SEO?

(4) Quality of backlinks. Number is not always the factor. Quality can also be a basis.

(5) Relevance. Already laid down by dburk above.

and there more that should be elaborated. Hope this can clear things up a little.

jesus72knight · 10-27-2010, 09:15 PM

I do agree with RegalWeb. There are so many things to be considered. That's a reason why SEO is not done like magic. Certain studies and evaluation should be first conducted in order to ensure rankings.

drmattnd · 10-29-2010, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnm007a

I think you should develop your own nutrition forum and easily outrank them as neither site has good SEO.

Funny you should mention that as I was just thinking the same thing...

drmattnd · 10-29-2010, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi drmattnd,

Google ranks results based on relevance. Just look at the on-page SEO and you will see beverlynutrition is optimized for the keyword and crossfit isn't. There is no need to look beyond that, it explains why one page is ranking better than the other.

Perhaps I am a bit dense... but it's not that obvious to me. Could you elaborate?

I mean, the home page of Beverly Nutrition has almost nothing on it at all, and the forum page looks like any other forum page to me.

I'm not arguing with you, I just don't understand.

drmattnd · 10-29-2010, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesus72knight

Certain studies and evaluation should be first conducted in order to ensure rankings.

Such as....?

drmattnd · 10-29-2010, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegalWeb

(1)The age of the domain. The older the more it gains credibility among Internet users.

CrossFit first registered in 1999. Beverly 2003

Quote:

(2) Site listings. Is it listed in DMOZ? Yahoo Directory? Google Maps?

DMOZ: Crossfit - Yes Beverly - Yes

Yahoo: Crossfit - Yes Beverly - No

Google Maps: Crossfit - Yes Beverly - No

Quote:

(3) Meta Tags. Is the meta title, keyword and description suited for SEO?

Crossfit has meta tags. Beverly does not. So I would assume Crossfit wins by default.

Quote:

(4) Quality of backlinks. Number is not always the factor. Quality can also be a basis.

link:beverlynutrition.com Zero results

link:crossfit.com About 1770 results

Quote:

(5) Relevance. Already laid down by dburk above.

As a user, I don't find their site to be more relevant. But that's just me. Obviously Google disagrees and I wanna know why!

Quote:

and there more that should be elaborated.

Such as...? Obviously there is something I'm missing here. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I am just trying to understand this example from Google's perspective.

IndigoJack · 10-29-2010, 08:01 AM

Further to them having better SEO........

There is a site that I am trying to knock off the top spot - we both have exact match domain names and both are top level. (it's not my indigojack.com domain)

Their site is top because in addition to the usual SEO stuff they have posted articles and press releases all over the place.

Plus, their domain has been around longer than mine which means they have lots of keyword rich content that has been built up over time.

jhonsean · 10-29-2010, 09:42 AM

The older the better site for me.
Instead of worrying about the questions in your mind why don't you focus on your site and keep on improving your Off and On Page Optimization.
In the end the google rankings will react on your efforts.

jonrpatrick · 10-29-2010, 10:04 AM

Forgive what may be a completely ignorant thought .... but I get the impression (judging by what happens to my few sites) that Google sometimes 'bumps' you up to see what response your site gets - and if you *deserve* a higher spot.
I have a site that was stuck at result about 16, but slowly moving up based on my (weak and ill-informed) backlinking. One day, I shot up to slot 8, only to drop back to about 12 the next day. No change in content or backlinks between the 2 days (at least not that showed up on Google Analytics).
I think they just move you around to see where you get a great response.
Could be they put these guys at the top 'just to see'.
JP

dburk · 10-29-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmattnd

Perhaps I am a bit dense... but it's not that obvious to me. Could you elaborate?

I mean, the home page of Beverly Nutrition has almost nothing on it at all, and the forum page looks like any other forum page to me.

I'm not arguing with you, I just don't understand.

Hi drmattnd,

Google has never relied totally on meta tags. They will choose what they think is the best title and description snippet if they don't see them on the page.

In this case, the title and description that Google used for the page was better optimized for the keyword query in question. That's how it works, the most relevant page, based on Google's criteria for relevance, is what gets ranked highest.

If you look strictly at the listings on the SERP you will see that the title (chosen by Google), description, and URL are all a better match for your search query. These are the on-page elements that are among the most influential for SEO relevance.

jonrpatrick · 10-29-2010, 11:09 AM

waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait.
Google chooses those sites who's title and description is better optomized, but THEY can pick and choose what they consider to be your best description!! LOL

Mike Anthony · 10-29-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drmattnd

I mean, the home page of Beverly Nutrition has almost nothing on it at all, and the forum page looks like any other forum page to me.

I'm not arguing with you, I just don't understand.

In this case the relevance that Dburk is talking about is in the title. It "works" for them because frankly from what I see you may have been the first person to search for that term this month.

So in this case google can't do anything better than put that site first because my bet is that NEITHER site really even cares or tried to rank for it. Its a zero traffic term

dburk · 10-29-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonrpatrick

waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait.
Google chooses those sites who's title and description is better optomized, but THEY can pick and choose what they consider to be your best description!! LOL

Hi jonrpatrick,

Yeah, that is funny isn't it?

Here's a little video where Google engineer Matt Cutts explains their policy:

YouTube - Snippets and Titles

bamtastic · 03-15-2011, 03:09 PM

I suppose Crossfit.com's forum is not really a nutrition forum per se and not the content is not optimized for "nutrition discussion."

Although there are several threads on nutrition, I myself who goes to their forum everyday see that majority of the threads are about the work out of the day and the member's progress in performing them.

10-27-2010, 12:11 AM	#1
drmattnd Warrior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 20 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A curious ranking observation As my practice and website revolve heavily around nutrition, I thought it would be a good idea to participate in discussion boards on that topic. A few days ago I found a fantastic forum hosted by CrossFit. Highly recommended for anybody interested in fitness and nutrition. Anyhow, curious to see what google would serve up on a search for "nutrition discussion forum" my forum of choice was listed at #5 today. Not bad. Now I can see why #2, 3, and 4 are there. . . but the #1 spot goes to BeverlyNutrition.com. Crossfit.com has an Alexa traffic rank of 10,793 with 1,479 sites linking in. Beverlynutrition.com has an Alexa traffic rank of 5,343,188 with 6 sites linking in. Now what would make Google think that Beverlynutrition.com is the top dish of the day?
	Health is the natural state of the body. Naturopathic Medicine for Holistic Health and Wellness Michigan Association of Naturopathic Physicians

10-27-2010, 12:14 AM	#2
joelraitt Master Warrior Join Date: May 2009 Location: Kelowna, BC Posts: 332 Thanks: 1 Thanked 84 Times in 40 Posts Social Networking	Re: A curious ranking observation prob better on site seo, aged domain, maybe they targeted that exact kw? maybe those are some bad ass 6 links maybe it owned by google...haha jkjk those r my guesses
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10-27-2010, 04:44 AM	#4
craigcdz craigcdz Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Virginia, United States. Posts: 164 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: A curious ranking observation Well, having an old domain name and the website being the search engine + user friendly may be the reason behind all this...Traffic can be a factor also...
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10-27-2010, 05:12 PM	#10
Corvinus Active Warrior Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 66 Thanks: 5 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: A curious ranking observation They just targeted the keywords well in their anchor text that's why they outrank Crossfit.com.
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10-27-2010, 08:44 PM	#11
dburk Senior Warrior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 4,643 Thanks: 162 Thanked 671 Times in 581 Posts Contact Info	Re: A curious ranking observation Hi drmattnd, Google ranks results based on relevance. Just look at the on-page SEO and you will see beverlynutrition is optimized for the keyword and crossfit isn't. There is no need to look beyond that, it explains why one page is ranking better than the other.
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10-27-2010, 05:24 AM	#5
Google.me HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: new zealand Posts: 197 Thanks: 5 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Social Networking	Re: A curious ranking observation Crossfit.com domain backend moves around alot and hasnt been around longer than Beverlynutrition.com domain. Crossfit.com is also a vbulletine site where alot of spammers like too hang out

10-27-2010, 09:13 PM	#12
RegalWeb Offshore Outsourcing Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Iloilo City, Philippines Posts: 186 Thanks: 17 Thanked 27 Times in 14 Posts Social Networking	Re: A curious ranking observation There are few things to be considered. (1)The age of the domain. The older the more it gains credibility among Internet users. (2) Site listings. Is it listed in DMOZ? Yahoo Directory? Google Maps? (3) Meta Tags. Is the meta title, keyword and description suited for SEO? (4) Quality of backlinks. Number is not always the factor. Quality can also be a basis. (5) Relevance. Already laid down by dburk above. and there more that should be elaborated. Hope this can clear things up a little.
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10-27-2010, 09:15 PM	#13
jesus72knight SEO Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: New York City Posts: 395 Thanks: 54 Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts	Re: A curious ranking observation I do agree with RegalWeb. There are so many things to be considered. That's a reason why SEO is not done like magic. Certain studies and evaluation should be first conducted in order to ensure rankings.
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10-29-2010, 08:01 AM	#18
IndigoJack Just keep swimming... Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: UK Based. Worldwide Service Posts: 319 Thanks: 34 Thanked 34 Times in 30 Posts Social Networking	Re: A curious ranking observation Further to them having better SEO........ There is a site that I am trying to knock off the top spot - we both have exact match domain names and both are top level. (it's not my indigojack.com domain) Their site is top because in addition to the usual SEO stuff they have posted articles and press releases all over the place. Plus, their domain has been around longer than mine which means they have lots of keyword rich content that has been built up over time.
	IndigoJack Group Website Hosting & SEO

10-29-2010, 09:42 AM	#19
jhonsean Advanced Warrior Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 852 Thanks: 0 Thanked 26 Times in 26 Posts	Re: A curious ranking observation The older the better site for me. Instead of worrying about the questions in your mind why don't you focus on your site and keep on improving your Off and On Page Optimization. In the end the google rankings will react on your efforts.

10-29-2010, 10:04 AM	#20
jonrpatrick Active Warrior Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 75 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: A curious ranking observation Forgive what may be a completely ignorant thought .... but I get the impression (judging by what happens to my few sites) that Google sometimes 'bumps' you up to see what response your site gets - and if you deserve a higher spot. I have a site that was stuck at result about 16, but slowly moving up based on my (weak and ill-informed) backlinking. One day, I shot up to slot 8, only to drop back to about 12 the next day. No change in content or backlinks between the 2 days (at least not that showed up on Google Analytics). I think they just move you around to see where you get a great response. Could be they put these guys at the top 'just to see'. JP
	Jon R. Patrick Husband, Father, Engineer, Author, MLM Advocate Visi Wellness MLM

10-29-2010, 11:09 AM	#22
jonrpatrick Active Warrior Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 75 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: A curious ranking observation waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait. Google chooses those sites who's title and description is better optomized, but THEY can pick and choose what they consider to be your best description!! LOL
	Jon R. Patrick Husband, Father, Engineer, Author, MLM Advocate Visi Wellness MLM

03-15-2011, 03:09 PM	#25
bamtastic Warrior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Quezon City Philippines Posts: 18 Thanks: 9 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Social Networking Contact Info	Re: A curious ranking observation I suppose Crossfit.com's forum is not really a nutrition forum per se and not the content is not optimized for "nutrition discussion." Although there are several threads on nutrition, I myself who goes to their forum everyday see that majority of the threads are about the work out of the day and the member's progress in performing them.