Discussion on Whitehat Blackhat SEO technique in a high competition space

[newb]

Hi Warriors,

I'm looking for some specific solid advice. I've only been researching SEO for a few about 6 weeks. I'm a programmer for an internet company who has been pushed into this role, after a few SEO consultants have been less then honest with our company in a row.

I've found excellent information here and have been able to make minor positive gains by changing the onsite SEO here and some link building just from reading these forums. So thanks for all the constructive posts.

The crux of the issue I'm not very experienced, but I've been told that our keywords are EXTREMELY competitive. Please remember I only work here and I don't get to choose the mandate I'm given. Here is an example of our keywords:
"generic cialis"
"cialis generic"
same for viagra and a list of other longer tail keywords.

For the first time, people have commented to me that they don't do adult. I was actually stunned that these are considered adult terms. Our site has no pornography erotica or anything of that nature, its just an online pharmacy.

Now the crunch, we place well. We've slowly been pushed down by having some really bad SEO. How bad is really bad? Someone trying to justify 5000 links on one page in a church calendaring system as an SEO package. I was completely shocked. But anyhow, I doubt that any professional that takes pride in their work would argue that.

Now, I've exchanged several emails with 2 more experienced SEO members who'se programs don't work in the pharma(/adult used loosely) industry. They've both intimated that most of the blogs and good article directories just ban any article with those links outright, rendering most white hat services useless. I've been told to check out black hat SEO techniques. They've never seen the supposed penalties, implemented.

Now, I mean no disrespect to those members but in my limited 6 week research, its been indicated just about everywhere that this will destroy your site position, currently on hovering at the end of page 1 and on some days page 3 or 4. Basically its indicated that it might have a few day gain followed by being banned or put to page 100. I cant have that, I'd basically be canned and loose 30-40 people their jobs in the process.

Can anyone who genuinely has some experience in this tougher market perhaps comment here if they think its a good or bad idea. Is there a middle ground.

Thanks respectfully to any contributions you can make here.
-newb

EDIT:
I certainly didn't write BlueFart, but I guess thats not allowed as a keyword or title item.
apologies,
-newb

[paulgl]

Do you really work for an internet "company"?

Why would they stick you in the position? No coin to shell out to
someone who knows what they are doing? What kind of "company" is
that?

The niche is hard because it is associated with spam. Most
real companies would just go for adwords or other advertising.

Assuming you were a legit company, that is.

What kind of programming does a cialis site require on an ongoing basis?
Must be good work if you can get it.

You picked the niche, now you have to live with it.

Surely a company with 40+ employees can do better than black
h at seo.

Paul

[mad.hat]

Originally Posted by newb

Hi Warriors,

I'm looking for some specific solid advice. I've only been researching SEO for a few about 6 weeks. I'm a programmer for an internet company who has been pushed into this role, after a few SEO consultants have been less then honest with our company in a row.

I've found excellent information here and have been able to make minor positive gains by changing the onsite SEO here and some link building just from reading these forums. So thanks for all the constructive posts.

The crux of the issue I'm not very experienced, but I've been told that our keywords are EXTREMELY competitive. Please remember I only work here and I don't get to choose the mandate I'm given. Here is an example of our keywords:
"generic cialis"
"cialis generic"
same for viagra and a list of other longer tail keywords.

For the first time, people have commented to me that they don't do adult. I was actually stunned that these are considered adult terms. Our site has no pornography erotica or anything of that nature, its just an online pharmacy.

Now the crunch, we place well. We've slowly been pushed down by having some really bad SEO. How bad is really bad? Someone trying to justify 5000 links on one page in a church calendaring system as an SEO package. I was completely shocked. But anyhow, I doubt that any professional that takes pride in their work would argue that.

Now, I've exchanged several emails with 2 more experienced SEO members who'se programs don't work in the pharma(/adult used loosely) industry. They've both intimated that most of the blogs and good article directories just ban any article with those links outright, rendering most white hat services useless. I've been told to check out black hat SEO techniques. They've never seen the supposed penalties, implemented.

Now, I mean no disrespect to those members but in my limited 6 week research, its been indicated just about everywhere that this will destroy your site position, currently on hovering at the end of page 1 and on some days page 3 or 4. Basically its indicated that it might have a few day gain followed by being banned or put to page 100. I cant have that, I'd basically be canned and loose 30-40 people their jobs in the process.

Can anyone who genuinely has some experience in this tougher market perhaps comment here if they think its a good or bad idea. Is there a middle ground.

Thanks respectfully to any contributions you can make here.
-newb

EDIT:
I certainly didn't write BlueFart, but I guess thats not allowed as a keyword or title item.
apologies,
-newb

Cialis is definitely not considered an "adult" term although it does go in another "special" category, pharma. Same with viagra except the competition is way stronger. The reason for this is that both terms have advertisers that pay REALLY well for leads and they accept just about any type of promotion because they don't care about their "reputation".

These leads to a TON of spam (same with adult) and is primarily the reason for many SEOs turning you down. There is so much technology put in place by webmasters to SPECIFICALLY target pharma and adult spam.

Unless you got deep pockets I would just choose different market altogether because you really have no idea what it takes to rank for those keyword terms. There is no much money to be made outside the world of adult and pharma so don't worry. If you do have deep pockets then send me a PM. I've got the tech in place to properly SEO your site and I'll guarantee you better results than any other SEO you have dealt with.

Best of luck either way mate.

[Cataclysm1987]

Okay, you want to talk some dirty, nasty, naughty SEO? Let's talk.

First off, go to the most popular porn site you can find and run it through SEO spyglass.

If you don't have it, run it through backlinkwatch.com or Yahoo site explorer. Whatever you want to do.

Find out what sites are linking to them. You may be able to get a link at any of these sites too.

Anyways, if not, go to an XRumer blasting service like the one at xrumerseo.com and start having them build you tons of forum profiles.

Then run all the profiles through Backlink energizer to get them indexed.

Lather, rinse, repeat. You can also do the same for your competitors. SEO spyglass them and steal some of their links.

Even though you're not technically adult, Google has two indexes, the adult and the non adult index. If a site is sleazy or untrustworthy in any way, it automatically goes to the adult index where it can no longer play nice with non adult sites.

Sorry but that's really all I can offer you!

[Chris Kent]

Many hosts, payment processors and more will not touch pharma. Along with gambling and pr0n, pharma has this stigma. That is why your options are limited with white hat.

A bad strategy can destroy your position, sure. But a good strategy will do the opposite.

A lot of people who do BH may have a short attention span and a lot of impatience but there are also many serious people in that field who get amazing results.

[halfbakedrew]

I can help with your ranking, pm me if you want to talk more..

[newb]

Hi All,

First of all thanks, for your posts and sorry about the long delay in responding. After reading so many threads on this forum I was really hopeful that I would be able to retain and work with someone who would be able to help get us back into our old positions.

I was so excited when I got notification of my first response however, I was really down about the response itself. I hadn't checked back for a while, thinking that it was the only thing that was going to come of this. But, I've been pleasantly surprised by the positive advice and offers. So thanks for all the great advice, including the people that PM'd. I don't think I am able to PM back quite yet with the low amount of posts that I have, but I'll place a few more contributions and PM you back shortly. Also thanks for the contributions.

Thanks Again,
-newb

[sappacis13]

Hi! Thanks for the great article in here!

Can I ask?

Can you enumerate what are the white hat seo? Im a little bit
confuse... I know it means that "do the ethical way".

But I am afraid may be Im using black hat...

Can you enumerate some of the white hat seo?

Thanks!

[sappacis13]

I guess no one would try to help me...

[ElMundodelExito]

Ok I will start
White Hat : Post 1 article a day in site for 30 days.
Bla..Hat : Create 7000 profile links pointing to your site in 30 days.

To the OP: Imho i do not think that you can beat those people with white hat.

[niteshahir]

hi,

great thread.. & very good answer as well.. great one... thanks to all...

[KaranS]

Being an honest business person is a good thing. Hinging your marketing on ethics is a blatant display of desperation.The goal of the SEO is to get the clients site to rank better for relevant search phrases to spread messages or create sales.No matter what the SEO, search engines, or clients say: the SEO should put the client ahead of the search engines.