Guaranteed SEO services? Why not? Isn't it just hiding?

[Mike Anthony]

As you might know the conventional wisdom is that SEOs can't guarantee placement for their clients. I've gone with this wisdom for some time but I am abandoning ship.

There are few services where people are not responsible for standing behind their work provided its all their work. Tell me why should SEO be one of them?

Okay so your SEO cannot guarantee that they can get you a number one spot for a particular keyword. Thats a given but why can't he/she guarantee to get you on the front page for a particular niche for a certain amount of projected google traffic? Why no guarantee at all? Isn't a SEO just hiding behind not being expected to make guarantees.

So I guess I am calling out those that offer SEO services here. Why can't you guarantee your customers something? anything?

I am going to actually start guaranteeing results to my customers (mostly who are offline) . Why?

I find I do better work when I have a goal I have to meet. I've come to the point now where as long as I am in charge of the whole program its extremely doable. My customers are already in a niche and they just want customers and traffic. If i pick the keywords in their niche and do my work right I AM able to get them on the front page of Google for enough terms to meet a projected traffic increase.

the only way I can't is if they insist on a particular keyword or I screw up which I shouldn't do so why shouldn't I guarantee that they won't have to pay for my screw up without me correcting it?

But if you have total control and the client listens to you you should be able to make SOME guarantees.

If you disagree then tell me why.

[aaron_nimocks]

They should guarantee targeted traffic from the search engines, not position since position doesnt mean jack depending on the keyword.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by aaron_nimocks

They should guarantee targeted traffic from the search engines, not position since position doesn't mean jack depending on the keyword.

I'll somewhat disagree and agree with that. Search engine optimization is about optimizing your position in the search results. As long as those search results get a certain amount of searches a month then the job is done. Say like 10.000 searches per month.

However you can have placement sometimes and not get traffic because what you are offering just doesn't convert well and people don't click to it. So position provided the term gets searches is the best a SEO is going to be able to get you. A SEO cannot take responsibility for all your content.

[aaron_nimocks]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I'll somewhat disagree and agree with that. Search engine optimization is about optimizing your position in the search results. As long as those search results get a certain amount of searches a month then the job is done. Say like 10.000 searches per month.

However you can have placement sometimes and not get traffic because what you are offering just doesn't convert well and people don't click to it. So position provided the term gets searches is the best a SEO is going to be able to get you. A SEO cannot take responsibility for all your content.

But keyword research is a big part of SEO.

What most of these #&$^#$ do is guarantee #1 rankings for some stupid keyword that doesn't bring traffic. People will fall for that over and over and that will continue to be a big seller, even though it is a rip off.

That's why I would never hire an SEO company to guarantee me placement for a keyword.

The overall goal is targeted traffic and that is what they should be selling, not some pipe dream crap.

[auradev]

Its not a good idea to guarantee something you have no control over. But if you want to try, go for it.

Are you going to guarantee it so long as Google doesn't change the algorithm?

What about on a highly competitive keyword in a specific niche, would you have to make an exception for your guarantee?

You could guarantee that customers will be satisfied with your effort. I think that would be reasonable. I think most people will be reasonable and if you show them some good results, they will be happy.

"If you have total control and the client listens to you" that is ideal but seriously, what % of the clients are like that, like 1 in 5 or 1 in 8.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by aaron_nimocks

But keyword research is a big part of SEO.

What most of these #&$^#$ do is guarantee #1 rankings for some stupid keyword that doesn't bring traffic. .

I've already addressed that but you are missing it. You do not guarantee for some garbage word. You guarantee placement for a term or combination of terms that gets an X number of searches. You can't guarantee based on traffic numbers on the server since there are too many things outside of the SEOs control.

Server going down, stats being incorrect, good placement for a term with traffic but no conversion because of whats showing on the blurb in the page. SEOs cannot take responsibility for the entire companies opening content or keep monitoring all of that. So placement is plenty good if you are not playing games with as you said ranking for some nonsense low traffic keyword. Thats a scam too.

[mattlaclear]

I have no problem whatsoever guaranteeing page one rankings. Provided I am the one choosing the keyword and feel comfortable with the level of the competition ranking in the top 20.

[Daniel Molano]

In the big leagues you have to guarantee at least a % increase in traffic and ink it.

Maybe not rankings per say, but at least a click quantity, an SEO CPC or a % increase in traffic.

[aaron_nimocks]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You guarantee placement for a term or combination of terms that gets an X number of searches.

Think we are on the same page but for the sake of more discussion..

You cant guarantee number of searches either. Not just of the simple fact that these keywords might drop in searches but also there's no real way to tell how many searches that keyword actually gets until your ranking in that position for it.

Closest you can get is running an Adwords campaign and trying to get that keyword to show up for every search done during a day so you can check it. Which cant be done since no ones ad will show for every impression.

That's another big reason why I would only guarantee traffic. If that keyword doesn't get that amount of traffic you promised to the site, better start ranking for another one.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by auradev

Its not a good idea to guarantee something you have no control over. But if you want to try, go for it.

Thats totally false . A SEO does have control over what terms he goes after. I don't have to try. I always do good research and can rank in any niche provided I choose the keywords.

Are you going to guarantee it so long as Google doesn't change the algorithm?

Did I say for all time? You are adding conditions

What about on a highly competitive keyword in a specific niche, would you have to make an exception for your guarantee?

Come on read don't do the knee jerk reaction thing. I said nothing about guaranteeing a keyword. I said point blank that you can't guarantee for a particular keyword. Its the job of the SEO to decide what keywords to go after IN A NICHE.

You could guarantee that customers will be satisfied with your effort. I think that would be reasonable. I think most people will be reasonable and if you show them some good results, they will be happy.

Thas just hiding. there is nothing quantitative or concrete about "satisfied" and what guarantee are you going to extend to a customer that can't be satisfied. theres nothing reasonable about proposing that. Thats status quo.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by aaron_nimocks

You cant guarantee number of searches either. Not just of the simple fact that these keywords might drop in searches but also there's no real way to tell how many searches that keyword actually gets until your ranking in that position for it.

Well as with all things you have to go with independent metrics and that would be Google. So whether you think it reliable or not google's keyword tools would have to be good enough. Even if you get position you can't track how many searches without relying on Google unless you go back to traffic and click throughs. Even if you get a adwords ad google doesn't guarantee it will always show for each search.

I am saying that there are still guarantees that you just cannot make but that just because those exist you can't make ANY guarantees which is the cop out I think some hide behind. If you can show first page results for a bunch of terms that get a certain amount of searches you are still way beyond the total lack of any standard at all.

See as it stands right now I can take hundreds and thousands of dollars from my customer and do next to nothing. Maybe throw some worthless profile backlinks at a page and do some minor optimization and tell my client too bad so sad moved you from page five to page two where you still get no traffic.

I'm talking about providing some kind of result metric as opposed to none at all. Honestly once you do keyword and competition research properly you really should not be striking out on all your keywords (and you should be going for a number of them) or ou should be the one to correct that .

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by mattlaclear

I have no problem whatsoever guaranteeing page one rankings. Provided I am the one choosing the keyword and feel comfortable with the level of the competition ranking in the top 20.

There you go. Thats exactly what I am talking about and my experience is the same

Originally Posted by daniel Molano

In the big leagues you have to guarantee at least a % increase in traffic and ink it.

Maybe not rankings per say, but at least a click quantity, an SEO CPC or a % increase in traffic

yeah I was thinking of saying that because if you do your homework you can get an idea of traffic and come in with a reasonable figure below that. However I left that out because on the lower end jobs thats not something I would really want to commit to

[JackPowers]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

As you might know the conventional wisdom is that SEOs can't guarantee placement for their clients. I've gone with this wisdom for some time but I am abandoning ship.

There are few services where people are not responsible for standing behind their work provided its all their work. Tell me why should SEO be one of them?

Okay so your SEO cannot guarantee that they can get you a number one spot for a particular keyword. Thats a given but why can't he/she guarantee to get you on the front page for a particular niche for a certain amount of projected google traffic? Why no guarantee at all? Isn't a SEO just hiding behind not being expected to make guarantees.

So I guess I am calling out those that offer SEO services here. Why can't you guarantee your customers something? anything?

I am going to actually start guaranteeing results to my customers (mostly who are offline) . Why?

I find I do better work when I have a goal I have to meet. I've come to the point now where as long as I am in charge of the whole program its extremely doable. My customers are already in a niche and they just want customers and traffic. If i pick the keywords in their niche and do my work right I AM able to get them on the front page of Google for enough terms to meet a projected traffic increase.

the only way I can't is if they insist on a particular keyword or I screw up which I shouldn't do so why shouldn't I guarantee that they won't have to pay for my screw up without me correcting it?

But if you have total control and the client listens to you you should be able to make SOME guarantees.

If you disagree then tell me why.

Of course you can make all kind of guarantees, but can you keep them?

SEO is a dynamic game, you're not just playing the game yourself, but you are up against other SEO companies as well as the current whims of Google.

It's similar to how Kobe Bryant may average 30 points a game, but can he guarantee that he will score 30 points in the next game?

Obviously no. Guarantees really don't help anyone. If you're not getting the results you would like from your SEO firm, then you're free to change provider, that's the nature of a competetive market.

I mean, I may say to a client that it's reasonable to assume Top 3 within 3/6/9/12 months or even that we're trying to go for first, but a guarantee would be foolish.

If you could really make that guarantee because you were so much better than your competition, then you'd be a very, very rich man.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by JackPowers

Of course you can make all kind of guarantees, but can you keep them?

Thats the whole point of a guarantee. If you can't keep it you send back the money or you make it up to the client. Implying that I would make a guarantee and not stand by it is kind of slanderous Jack.

SEO is a dynamic game, you're not just playing the game yourself, but you are up against other SEO companies as well as the current whims of Google.

Thats why you wouldn't pin all your hopes on one keyword. You would have to approach getting the traffic and placement for a number of them to achieve your goal. If you can't pick any keywords where the competition is soft then you aren't a good SEO and should hand the money back anyway. You didn't earn it. Now if you didn't read the Op and are totally lost there is no guaranteeing of a specific result with a specific keyword. Read the Op again

Obviously no. Guarantees really don't help anyone. If you're not getting the results you would like from your SEO firm, then you're free to change provider, that's the nature of a competetive market.

Thats funny I would think it would help the customer to have the cash back if you didn't meet your goal. How would that not help anyone? Again you are erroneously building in to your assumptions that the guarantee would not be honored. The nature of this competitive market is that any and everyone claims to be a SEO and the customer is asked to eat the loss when the supposed SEO can't make the grade.

I mean, I may say to a client that it's reasonable to assume Top 3 within 3/6/9/12 months or even that we're trying to go for first, but a guarantee would be foolish.

If you could really make that guarantee because you were so much better than your competition, then you'd be a very, very rich man.

Ok at this point theres no kinda slanderous . You are outright being slanderous in claiming I am not "really" making the guarantee. Why not? its really simple. hand back the money or get the client the placement for some terms you can gt them ranked for. It really doesn't make any claim at being better. its based on being able to do really good research. Good research is AVOIDING the competition not beating them and the odds are slim that all of a sudden terms will all become competitive. If you can't find keywords for your clients where he can get some traffic then you would need to quit the business.

There are SEOs already participating in this thread that will tell you there are still tons of search terms that get thousands of searches where the front page is nowhere near as iffy to get on as you seem to believe.

Let me put it to you this way. You have a customer that pays you a thousand or two a month and he come back to you and says he's leaving because he is not satisfied. Your tactics really haven't worked and you know it. Do you let him walk and tell him too bad go ahead and move on or do you say = lets try something different and I'll make it up to you. let s freeze the billing for a month or two and let me make it up.

Its called standing behind your work and the more I think about it the more I realize how really crazy it is that there is absolutely no other business where you can totally let down the client and have zero responsibility. SEO now is like the wild west. Anyone can come in, take cash, deliver no results to speak of and then claim

"SEO is a dynamic game, you're not just playing the game yourself, but you are up against other SEO companies as well as the current whims of Google."

Its a cop out. That you can't guarantee everything does not mean you cannot guarantee anything. Google isn't the stock market on Black Friday. Things do not dramatically change every week. SEO is not that mysterious. Thats a myth.

[dadamson]

Guilty!

I run an SEO company that makes no upfront guarantees.

I guess it is because we take a different approach, we are a backlinking service, concentrating more on offpage SEO.

The only guarantee we make is that we guarantee to provide you with AT LEAST the number of backlinks you signed up for each month. So If you signed up for 3000 backlinks per month, you will likely receive 3100 or 3200. Anything over 3000 anyway.

My clients have received extremely good value and have been able to rank highly competitive keywords within a couple of months and we are slowly building up quite a reputation, no unhappy subscribers yet, and plenty of business so there is not much need for a guarantee.

Our strategy is to build up a great rep in order to sell our services, rather than create guarantees. That said, we do offer money back for the previous month of the service if you are unhappy for ANY reason, so I guess this is sort of like a global guarantee of our service. This hasn't happened yet though.

Setting guarantees in SEO is a risky business. I mean, you are putting your entire business on the actions of your competitors.

What kind of foundation is that!??

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by dadamson

Guilty!

I run an SEO company that makes no upfront guarantees.

I guess it is because we take a different approach, we are a backlinking service, concentrating more on offpage SEO.

First really no need for the blatant ad in the middle of a discussion.
Second if all you do is provide backlinks you are not a SEO. Sorry you are a backlink seller.

SEOs provide more than backlinks. They provide keyword and competitive research and on page SEO. they provide the whole blueprint not just hammer in some nails. Because they have done their work its really not that risky at all because they have the research to indicate where the softness in the competition is. That softness is exactly what makes the kind of links you put up have any impact. Its hit or miss without good SEO research which is why it doesn't work for lots of people just the few that luck into it or do their own research into a soft niche making your links better than they really are.

So its not really the same thing. I don't give any guarantees for backlink building either. You don't have enough control to give any and all you are really doing when you are offering thousands of those kinds of links is running bots so of course you can't stand behind results for that.

[Mike Anthony]

Incidentally for those who claim I am blowing smoke if you want you can monitor this thread

The 2011 name Your niche and Rank experiment -MULTIPLE traffic streams

Where I am openly putting the basic idea that you can rank within any niche to the test.

[Dan B Rusu]

Hey Mike,

I guess great minds do think alike - I've been thinking about guaranteeing seo services. With no one else doing it, as far as I see, it could be extremely profitable as you're reversing the risk.

I'll be following your experiment

Dan

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Daniel7rusu

Hey Mike,

I guess great minds do think alike - I've been thinking about guaranteeing seo services. With no one else doing it, as far as I see, it could be extremely profitable as you're reversing the risk.

I'll be following your experiment

Dan

Many of us do it in one way or another.

A common emerging trend nowadays is the results oriented SEO, you only get paid once the ranking is achieved and from there on to sustain it.

The pitch is simple: "You absorb the risk, here's the fee. If you want me to absorb all of the risk you have to pay me 4x more once the result is achieved".

[paulgl]

Mike, dang good point.

The way I would have it is to talk about guaranteed results, not necessarily SERP
or ranking.

Anyone here worth his or her salt can "guarantee" some result(s). Be it
increase in traffic, PR, ranking, or a combination of all.

Nobody could guarantee a #1 position, or any position, because there are just
too many things out of our control.

But yes, an SEO expert should be able to guarantee something--some benchmarks
that are measurable. If not, what kind of SEO expert are you?

In fact, maybe one could SEO by incentives. Get paid a certain amount for each
benchmark, bonus for meeting all.

No SEO expert should ever shy away from putting their expertise on the line.
How that factors into a "guarantee" is up to debate.

Paul