Do NOT include TRADEMARK NAME in URL???

[magicink]

For example, I'm looking at an offer in offervault for eharmony, and in the terms and conditions I see the following:

"Search publishers may not use "eHarmony," "eHarmony" misspellings/variations, or misleading information or derogatory information in any ad headline, description copy or display URL."

The same kind of conditions can be found in other affiliate offers regarding trademarks. Yet if I search any keyword term that has the word eharmony in it, as can be expected the pages that come up in the top 10 use the eharmony name in the page name, and most of them are affiliates trying to generate leads.

Do the networks generally ignore this, or are people just using techniques to get around this? Is this something where networks generally look the other way, or is it only a matter of time before these affiliates are banned?

[InitialEffort]

If it is a major brand I would not buy the trademark. You see people running around with iphone4gcases.com and that is a mistake. Better to have 4gcases.com/iphone, that is the work around, although it is more difficult to rank than the EMD.

[magicink]

Thanks for your response. Just wanted to clarify that I was referring to the part about not having the trademark in the "display url", which I interpreted as meaning you can't do 4gcases/iphone.html

Am I misunderstanding the terms?

[yukon]

Originally Posted by magicink

Thanks for your response. Just wanted to clarify that I was referring to the part about not having the trademark in the "display url", which I interpreted as meaning you can't do 4gcases/iphone.html

Am I misunderstanding the terms?

That's the way I see it, display url.

(any part of the url)

[scott g]

I say screw it and use the Trademark/Brand Name in your domain, subdomain, or subdirectory. If it's a non-malicious site, you won't get any grief over it. I see Trademarks/Brand Names in URLs all the time...

Just type up (or copy) a nice Disclaimer that says your site isn't affiliated, owned, condoned blah blah blah doesn't reflect the blah blah blah.

CHEERS!

[paulgl]

You can use trademarks in the url if it's your url. Not someone elses
who has a policy against this. Many affiliate programs, some clickbank included,
have rules against using their website in display ads. I think we are mixing up
the two. Trademarks in a domain are fine, as long as the company does not make
stink. Google is a company that freely allows people to use their products in domains.
There are many others. Apple allows a ton as well.

Just do a search for iphone cases and notice the ads with iphone in urls.

If eharmony does not allow use of the domain in an ad, you must do a landing
page with your own url. In adwords, the url in the display must match the url
that the click goes to.

You would be a search publisher in this case. Google is not. Search results are
not ads. Google has no control over someone breaking the TOS of an affiliate.
But, if there was an ad and someone complained, your ad would be would probably
be banned.

That's different than making a landing page to promote eharmony.

Paul

[rickstooker]

Last month I noticed that one of my domains included a trademark term. For some reason, I had "trademark blindness" when I took it out. It's describes the product so well, that I didn't even notice.

Anyway, I decided to move the content to a site with a similar subject, and redirected the urls to that site. Then planned to just fail to renew it next year.

Last week I got an email from the trademark owner's attorney. Just the initial paperwork sent me must have cost several grand.

But they found me, and were prepared to go to arbitration. All is well because I'm not disputing it, just transferring ownership as soon as the paperwork goes through.

I also had to change all the links to that site I could locate. It wasn't worth it.

Stay away from trademarks and brand names.

[scott g]

Originally Posted by rickstooker

Last month I noticed that one of my domains included a trademark term. For some reason, I had "trademark blindness" when I took it out. It's describes the product so well, that I didn't even notice.

Anyway, I decided to move the content to a site with a similar subject, and redirected the urls to that site. Then planned to just fail to renew it next year.

Last week I got an email from the trademark owner's attorney. Just the initial paperwork sent me must have cost several grand.

But they found me, and were prepared to go to arbitration. All is well because I'm not disputing it, just transferring ownership as soon as the paperwork goes through.

I also had to change all the links to that site I could locate. It wasn't worth it.

Stay away from trademarks and brand names.

A fellow Missourian

You should have told them you would sell them the site for beau coup dollars! Gut the site and 301 redirect all traffic to that domain. Did you have a good disclaimer page? Believe it or not, you can pretty much get away with anything with a legal disclaimer page - Just make sure the link is clearly visible in your footer

I guess I really should be a little more "reserved," but I work for a big ole law firm so I'm no LOL!

CHEERS!

[wyuguy]

Originally Posted by scott g

A fellow Missourian

You should have told them you would sell them the site for beau coup dollars! Gut the site and 301 redirect all traffic to that domain. Did you have a good disclaimer page? Believe it or not, you can pretty much get away with anything with a legal disclaimer page - Just make sure the link is clearly visible in your footer

I guess I really should be a little more "reserved," but I work for a big ole law firm so I'm no LOL!

CHEERS!

Could you give me a example of "legal disclaimer page", is it really able to get away from the sue of trademark ower ?

[scott g]

Originally Posted by wyuguy

Could you give me a example of "legal disclaimer page", is it really able to get away from the sue of trademark ower ?

Weber Grill Restaurant: Legal

[magicink]

Originally Posted by scott g

Believe it or not, you can pretty much get away with anything with a legal disclaimer page - Just make sure the link is clearly visible in your footer

I guess I really should be a little more "reserved," but I work for a big ole law firm so I'm no LOL!

Just curious, what is do you do at the firm and what kind of law does your firm practice? I haven't been called to the bar yet so take what I say for what it's worth, but I'm pretty confident that legal disclaimer pages in themselves can't protect you from trademark infringement, if the trademark owner takes action to enforce against you. If you're using a trademark in your domain to market a brand's products, they can still sue you successfully, even if you have a disclaimer. If you call your theme park "disneyplanet", and post a disclaimer that "we are not affiliated with the disney corporation", would you not still expect disney to slap you with a suit?

Originally Posted by paulgl

You can use trademarks in the url if it's your url. Not someone elses
who has a policy against this.

If eharmony does not allow use of the domain in an ad, you must do a landing
page with your own url. In adwords, the url in the display must match the url
that the click goes to.

Paul

I think I see what you mean. I guess I didn't realize that "display URL" referred to a specific type of URL, namely the type displayed to an ad viewer.

Just to clarify, "display URL" here is referring only to the URL displayed in PPC ads like adwords (which must match the destination URL, thus by implication you can't use the eharmony term there either), its not referring to a page URL e.g. "mysite/eharmony-reviews.html", is that correct?

[OnlineMarketingSys]

Originally Posted by magicink

The same kind of conditions can be found in other affiliate offers regarding trademarks. Yet if I search any keyword term that has the word eharmony in it, as can be expected the pages that come up in the top 10 use the eharmony name in the page name, and most of them are affiliates trying to generate leads.

Do the networks generally ignore this, or are people just using techniques to get around this? Is this something where networks generally look the other way, or is it only a matter of time before these affiliates are banned?

Networks generally don't police this, however if a merchant/advertiser complains the network will definately withhold payment and may terminate your relationship with them.

It's really one of those gray areas, where if an advertiser complains you will definately be at the loosing end of the stick, yet it's not something that is really looked at from a network point of view.

[greatdanetraining]

I have facebookcreditsonline.com. I obviously wasn't thinking straight when I bought that domain. I haven't done anything with it yet because I don't want to get into trouble.
Would a disclaimer work for that?

[OnlineMarketingSys]

Originally Posted by rickstooker

Last month I noticed that one of my domains included a trademark term. For some reason, I had "trademark blindness" when I took it out. It's describes the product so well, that I didn't even notice.

Anyway, I decided to move the content to a site with a similar subject, and redirected the urls to that site. Then planned to just fail to renew it next year.

Last week I got an email from the trademark owner's attorney. Just the initial paperwork sent me must have cost several grand.

But they found me, and were prepared to go to arbitration. All is well because I'm not disputing it, just transferring ownership as soon as the paperwork goes through.

I also had to change all the links to that site I could locate. It wasn't worth it.

Stay away from trademarks and brand names.

Most major corporations have outside brand management and IP protection companies that routinely monitor against people abusing their copyrights and trademarks. It's a rather dull job, and while they do have counsel that does go to court, most of the matters if not all are done by someone without any formal legal educations/training. It isn't to say that legally you are clear. But it's far cheaper to hire someone for $12 an hour to send C&D letters, than it is to have attorneys on staff doing the work.

So primarily the sole job of these individuals is to spend 7 hours a day searching the internet for people abusing their Intellectual property, and 1-2 hours doing any clerical work and sending out C&D letters.

[magicink]

Originally Posted by greatdanetraining

I have facebookcreditsonline.com. I obviously wasn't thinking straight when I bought that domain. I haven't done anything with it yet because I don't want to get into trouble.
Would a disclaimer work for that?

No, a disclaimer wouldn't do anything if facebook wants to enforce trademark rights.

[scott g]

Originally Posted by magicink

Just curious, what is do you do at the firm and what kind of law does your firm practice? I haven't been called to the bar yet so take what I say for what it's worth, but I'm pretty confident that legal disclaimer pages in themselves can't protect you from trademark infringement, if the trademark owner takes action to enforce against you. If you're using a trademark in your domain to market a brand's products, they can still sue you successfully, even if you have a disclaimer. If you call your theme park "disneyplanet", and post a disclaimer that "we are not affiliated with the disney corporation", would you not still expect disney to slap you with a suit?

Big stuff. Bank of America's about to get b*tched slapped Lol!

With a correctly written disclaimer/tos page no one's going to sue you. If they try they won't win. Could they make you take the content and /or entire site down... Sure. Cover you a$$ at all times. Why do you think you have to have a TOS page if you have Adsense on your site...?

If you invest LOTS and LOTS of money into your site, then of course don't risk losing the domain and/or content on that site... Don't get a domain with a Trademark/Brand name in the domain. Even if you have a review site for products or services you should have a disclaimer pages clearly stating you're not affiliated nor endorsed by the manufacturers and that blah blah blah is a registered trademark of blah blah.

Simple stuff. People like to over complicate it though.

[paulgl]

I can't believe giving up my property on just a letter. Those letters
are a dime a dozen. Why not go through arbitration from ICAAN?
That's the way it's done. My property is my property. A webhost can
shut off hosting if they get scared, but nobody can take your domain
without some sort of judgment. Getting shut down and just handing
your domain over are 2 different things.

Walmart has given up on shutting down all the walmart-domained
hate sites.

They use these letter scare tactics just hoping that you'll just
hand it over. Crazy.

If you can show a valid reason to have such a url, and are not claiming
to be connected with the company, you have a good chance at ICAAN
going along with you.

But again, this is different than your host, adsense, etc. using domains
that may be perceived as infringements.

You pick your battles. I would never work hard at a site, then on a letter
have to change it.

Paul

[Sleep]

When I was first starting I put some trademarks into my URLs, and every one sparked a legal letter and I lost the lot, there are still poeple out there who are promoting the use of trademarks
............you know who you are!

[aprospector]

I have the same problem here. I'm new to this and just recently became aware of potential issues in having trademarked names in the domain. I just started a site and has unfortunately started building links to it. So, I'm hoping I can salvage the link building effort done so far.

Here is my question: Is there a way to pass on the link juice from the problem domain to a new domain? Could I put something like a redirect on the old site that will make Google's crawlers credit the backlink to the new domain?

Thanks

[Daniel Ray]

There is case law from last year that says it is fair use to include a trademarked name, within a domain name:

Here's a link: http://simmonstrialpractice.com/fair...ninth-circuit/

Fair Use of Trademark in Domain Name – Ninth Circuit

The Ninth Circuit held that the domain names buy-a-lexus.com and buyorleaselexus.com could be fair use of the Lexus trademark. Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. v. Tabari, opinion by Judge Kozinski dated July 8, 2010. Excerpts are below.

The district court applied the eight-factor test for likelihood of confusion articulated in AMF Inc. v. Sleekcraft Boats, 599 F.2d 341, 348-49 (9th Cir. 1979), and found that the Tabaris’ domain names — buy-a-lexus.com and buyorleaselexus.com— infringed the Lexus trademark. But we’ve held that the Sleekcraft analysis doesn’t apply where a defendant uses the mark to refer to the trademarked good itself. … The Tabaris are using the term Lexus to describe their business of brokering Lexus automobiles; when they say Lexus, they mean Lexus. We’ve long held that such use of the trademark is a fair use, namely nominative fair use. And fair use is, by definition, not infringement.”

If you read the full article, it is pretty revealing of what the federal court thinks about it...

FWIW...

[scott g]

Originally Posted by Daniel Ray

There is case law from last year that says it is fair use to include a trademarked name, within a domain name:

Here's a link: http://simmonstrialpractice.com/fair...ninth-circuit/

If you read the full article, it is pretty revealing of what the federal court thinks about it...

FWIW...

Great find Daniel!

[guideebook]

Originally Posted by scott g

Great find Daniel!

Hi scott g,

it was very interesting to read your posts about trademarks in domains.
I bought a domain www . trademark - country . com
Purpose is to blog about a new entertainment park in Asia, the story behind it, the progress, the coming attractions and so on. Of course I want add some advertisement like adsense.

I followed the link to the trial ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/07/08/07-55344.pdf and compared that to my case. I don´t have any "cybersquatting" on my mind and of course I will state that: "TRADEMARK is a trademark of the XXX Group, which does not sponsor, authorize or endorse this web site." in the terms of use and on the headline as well. And it would be very difficult to describe the whole stuff without using the trademark in the domain and text, as it is all about it.

But could I get in trouble with the following?

"Sites like trademark-USA.com, trademark-of-glendale.com or e-trademark.com will also generally suggest sponsorship or endorsement by the trademark holder." (Source: Funky Ninth Circuit Opinion on Domain Names and Nominative Use--Toyota v. Tabari By Eric Goldman)

I am interested in you opinion.

Thanks

[TryBPO]

Originally Posted by scott g

Weber Grill Restaurant: Legal

We work with the seo guy that runs that site...small world!

Good info here, but don't take ANYTHING you read online as gospel. If you're in doubt or facing significant legal issues, always consult an attorney on your own, hehe.

[mrtaxiservice]

Really nice forums and informative thanks

[Jeff Hampton]

Originally Posted by paulgl

Why not go through arbitration from ICAAN?

I depends on how much you value your time. Arbitration can be extremely time consuming.

And when was the last time someone with a clearly infringing name won an arbitration? (And by clearly infringing, the easiest definition is that you are using the Trademark to sell that actually product. If you have a URL like ILoveEharmony.com and you are using it to promote Eharmony, that's clear infringement.)

Yeah, I get the whole "Nobody's taking my property" thing. That's why I choose to just avoid those situations.

[stevepeterson1989]

there are so many Eharmony reviews