Position 8 in Adwords vs. Position 8 in Organic Listings

[sree94]

Like so many others, I was banned from using Adwords, and so I am having to rely on SEO (ugh) After about 5 months of work, I have gotten to page one for my desired keyword that has about 911,000 results. I am currently in the number 8 position

However, I am not getting hardly any traffic at all, especially compared to my days with buying PPC. When I used Adwords, it didn't matter what position I was in, I would get traffic/sales

What does your experience show? I keep hearing how 80% of the clicks are on organic results, but I certainly am not seeing that in my own experience

[Kevin AKA Hubcap]

Originally Posted by sree94

I keep hearing how 80% of the clicks are on organic results, but I certainly am not seeing that in my own experience

And there's the rub. "General" experience versus "actual" experience. Other peoples results/experiences don't matter. Listen to them but at the end of the day act in the best interests of your business.

[sree94]

Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap

And there's the rub. "General" experience versus "actual" experience. Other peoples results/experiences don't matter. Listen to them but at the end of the day act in the best interests of your business.

I'm asking this question just to get a general idea of whether I can expect any sales at this position

Obviously if I was getting better results with PPC, I would do that, but that option has been taken out of my hands

[KenThompson]

Originally Posted by sree94

I'm asking this question just to get a general idea of whether I can expect any sales at this position

Obviously if I was getting better results with PPC, I would do that, but that option has been taken out of my hands

Do not expect any sales at position 8 of organic results. Of course you may get one
just because it is possible, but generally speaking do not expect to burn the barn down
at #8.

I have seen the numbers but don't remember. Number one of the serps gets x% of traffic,
number two gets much less and so on. Number 8? Not good in terms of traffic, then you
are looking at how well your site converts for whatever you're doing. But you are not
looking at much traffic at all down there.

Since you have put this much time into it, I'd suggest you get it all the way to number
one and see what happens.

Even number two or three will make a big difference in your traffic.

There are other places to do PPC. I'm sure you know that. May be worth checking out.


Ken

[sree94]

Believe me, I am not just sitting back and content with position 8! Trying the long and frustrating climb to the number 2 spot

[vok]

Does organic and paid convert the same has anyone ever tested that? That was a myth flying around also.

[M Thompson]

Originally Posted by sree94

Believe me, I am not just sitting back and content with position 8! Trying the long and frustrating climb to the number 2 spot

A lot depends on the niche, you can get traffic at #8 but the main thing is that googles stats suck so you just have to go with what you know for cetain.

I am getting 50 visitors a day at #2 for a keyword that google says gets 800 searches a month. On the other hand I am getting 10 visitors a day at #1 for a keywords that supposedly has 3000 searches a month.

To be honest , i just don't worry about it any more.

[nvs74191]

If you had a good number of clicks on your adwords ads, work on bringing your site to top 3 position in organic results. Build more authority backlinks.

It may also be worthwhile to rework the title and description to improve the CTR on the organic listing.

[KenThompson]

Originally Posted by M Thompson

A lot depends on the niche, you can get traffic at #8 but the main thing is that googles stats suck so you just have to go with what you know for cetain.

I am getting 50 visitors a day at #2 for a keyword that google says gets 800 searches a month. On the other hand I am getting 10 visitors a day at #1 for a keywords that supposedly has 3000 searches a month.

To be honest , i just don't worry about it any more.

Probably the best way to be.

I've read this so many times and experienced it myself with adwords ppc; the
variability with traffic. Google's kw research traffic numbers are notoriously
inaccurate.

The only way to be sure, that I've read and know of, is to run a ppc campaign
for about a month, or more, and see how well the traffic compares with what
'they' told you in their kw tool.


Ken

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by KenThompson

Do not expect any sales at position 8 of organic results. Of course you may get one just because it is possible, but generally speaking do not expect to burn the barn down at #8.

I have seen the numbers but don't remember. Number one of the serps gets x% of traffic, number two gets much less and so on. Number 8? Not good in terms of traffic, then you are looking at how well your site converts for whatever you're doing. But you are not looking at much traffic at all down there.

Ken

Ken, I've seen those stats myself, usually on a site selling something related to SEO.

As I recall, the study that produced those stats was based on millions of searches with no effort to determine the intent of the search. So

'Britney Spears naked'

carried the same weight as

'cheapest car insurance'

even though the commercial value of those two searches might be vastly different.

What I've found is that, once you make the first page, the biggest factor is the page titles and descriptions of the entries above yours. If they have nondescript or nonsense titles (like 'keyword1, keyword2, keyword1 keyword 2) and/or junk in the description (like menu headings), you effectively 'move up' a notch.

At least, that's been my experience for the information I've offered...

[KenThompson]

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Ken, I've seen those stats myself, usually on a site selling something related to SEO.

As I recall, the study that produced those stats was based on millions of searches with no effort to determine the intent of the search. So

Thanks, John. I've seen those stats a hundred times and have always wondered
where they came from; and of course did not pursue it any farther.

I wonder though, just as a point of curiosity, if the intent would make a difference.

I think it would be variable and would also depend on the market, perhaps. I say that
because I have read about some markets where surfers will dig pages deep at google
to find just the right thing they're looking for. Of course, not all markets do that, and
this is also speaking in general terms.

There have been times when I've gone well beyond the first page of serps to find
something specific.

Too many variables, John. lol


Ken

[mike-seo]

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

'Britney Spears naked'

carried the same weight as

'cheapest car insurance'

even though the commercial value of those two searches might be vastly different.

I like your example, it is so intuitive

[kiloh]

If you're looking for organic results, how many people are actually searching using your targeted keyword? Doesn't matter if you're #1, if only 10-20 people search the exact kw a day, it won't matter. Also, don't forget to use "exact", broad does you no good.

[moneymakerz]

Google Keyword results are pretty much screwed

[forthright]

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

'Britney Spears naked'

carried the same weight as

'cheapest car insurance'

even though the commercial value of those two searches might be vastly different.

haha great examples... If only I could find a way to make money on ranking for "britany spears naked" that would be a fun blog to build.

[sree94]

UPDATE

Up to the number three position now, but still getting nowhere near the traffic I was with PPC

Then again, the number of monthly searches has also dropped quite a bit in the last year in a half

[Lucid]

Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap

And there's the rub. "General" experience versus "actual" experience. Other peoples results/experiences don't matter. Listen to them but at the end of the day act in the best interests of your business.

Couldn't say it better myself.

Take a look at what your ads said to what your organic listing says. Seems to me that your ads were attracting clicks so try to replicate it in your organic listing. Not only that, you say those clicks, no matter the position, were converting. Therefore, they were quality clicks so you must have been doing something right. My guess is you're doing your organics differently. Sure you can get sales in your current position but you've just proven you'll get a lot less. You need to change something to get back to where you were before.

It's only my personal opinion, not much data to back it up, but I think PPC would convert better. Of course, there are a lot of variables but as someone else said, work on title and descriptions. Whatever worked in PPC has a better chance to work on organic.

[theseoguys]

So within a month you climbed 5 spots? That's good. #1 and #3, is a measureable drop off.

Have you considered doing adwords through a 3rd party? Your account may be banned but there are companies that do this on behalf of other companies all the time. Google permits it.

[John Hocking]

Rank is only one factor in organic search results.

You need to make sure your page title is relavent and interesting.
You should also make sure your meta description is compelling.
The description does not affect rank but it can affect click through rank on your organic listing.

The title should be 65 characters or less and make good use of your keyword.

Treat the page title as the headline for your ad and the description as the body of the ad.

Most description are just stuff that google found on a page without a meta description.

If you do the title and description right, your listing will stand out nd get more clicks.

[sree94]

Originally Posted by Lucid

Couldn't say it better myself.

Take a look at what your ads said to what your organic listing says. Seems to me that your ads were attracting clicks so try to replicate it in your organic listing. Not only that, you say those clicks, no matter the position, were converting. Therefore, they were quality clicks so you must have been doing something right. My guess is you're doing your organics differently. Sure you can get sales in your current position but you've just proven you'll get a lot less. You need to change something to get back to where you were before.

It's only my personal opinion, not much data to back it up, but I think PPC would convert better. Of course, there are a lot of variables but as someone else said, work on title and descriptions. Whatever worked in PPC has a better chance to work on organic.

My title/description is the exact same as it was with Adwords

[wstaton]

Hmmm,

Your position in the so called top ten is not the only thing one has to contend with now.

Google being hypocritical as usual first moved some of the adwords at the head of the organic results (3) They were identified by being on a different colored background and a little "ads" on the side.

Over time I watched this background gradually get fainter and fainter and now is none existent.

All that is left is the word "ads" right at the top.

This means that a searcher does not know when the ads end and the real organic results start. Except maybe for the first one with "ads" against it.

This really means that your 8th position could now be interpreted as number 10.

Now I remember reading about placing adsense on site and Google specifically stated that you should not make the ads look as if they were part of content that a reader would inadvertently click on. Here they are now slowly making adwords look like organic results when they are really ads.

I bet over time even the word "ads" will disappear.

Wilf.

[paulgl]

You've got to set google aside and think how you can get targeted visitors
on your own. The list is endless. This forum is full of them. Funny thing,
when you concentrate on that, your stock has a tendency to rise in
google as well.

I wish people would concentrate on that instead of how to outwit google.

Paul