Hey SEO! You know google hates you right?

[Jerry Persson]

Yesterday, I saw a youtube vid of Matt Cutts talking about how keyword rich domain names no longer will be as strong of a factor for high rankings as it used to be. Here's why listening to what Matt Cutts has to say is suicide for anyone doing search engine optimization: He works for google.

Don't ever listen to google for SEO advice. The idea of google teaching you about SEO is about as absurd as the idea of an opponent teaching you his biggest weaknesses so that you can capitalize on them and beat him...it doesn't happen.

You have to remember that google HATES SEO with a passion and does whatever it takes to stop it (including lying to you). Here are two strong reasons why google hates SEO:

1. SEO lowers the quality and relevancy of google's search results.

Google's goal is to keep the search results as high quality as possible. Here's why:

Relevancy and high quality -> happy users -> more users -> more clicks on the adwords ads -> more money for google. The day google fails to display relevant and high quality results is the day google goes broke and dies.

When you do SEO, you don't rank because of the relevancy of your page, you rank because you manipulate google's search algorithm. With that said, if SEO's are allowed to have their way, the quality and relevancy of google's search results will plummet and google will soon be a thing of the past.

Still don't believe google hates SEO? Read reason #2...

2. Google wants you to use adwords ppc to sell your stuff, not the organic search results.

As mentioned before, google makes its money when people click on its ppc ads. Because of this, it wants to make it as difficult as possible for you to SEO your page to high rankings, hoping that you'll give up and buy ppc ads instead.

People selling in the organic search results are in direct competition with the ppc ads google wants to make money off of. With that said, if SEO's are allowed to have their way, more people will buy stuff from pages in the organic search results and less people will buy from pages advertising using adwords ppc. This means less profits for those who advertise using ppc and fewer clicks for google. Google won't let that fly without putting up a fight.

I know that Matt Cutts seems like a nice guy with his soft voice and pudgy face. I mean, how could this beautiful human being lie to you? It's called business. Matt works to make google happy, not you. The fact is that Matt is in it for the money just like the rest of us.

Whenever anyone says anything, first ask this: "Who is this guy and how does he benefit from telling me this?". Asking that question will give you a big competitive advantage because 99% of your competitors will listen to any authority figure and follow instructions blindly.

As a critical thinker, you don't cry about how google no longer will factor keyword rich domain names, you celebrate knowing that you won't listen to such nonsense and almost all of your competitors will. This means less competitors for those juicy keyword rich domain names that you, as a critical thinker, know work.

If you disagree with me, please tell me why teaching you how to SEO properly makes business sense to google?

[Landis]

matt cutts onpage seo advice is spot on. his offpage seo "advice" is so full of sh*t. But oh well, it makes my job easier if more people listens to his crap.

[tpw]

Of course, you are right on all counts.

But have you ever noticed? Matt Cutts and Google never tell you what to do to improve your rankings. They only tell you what you shouldn't do and what they will discount.

[animesh]

I don't trust if Google will be lying with us... of-course, he want people to use PPC but never hates webmaster else, they will start using bing, Yhaoo..

[tfos4941]

That sounds like a good thing to me. The keyword rich domains hardly ever offer the best results.

Originally Posted by Jerry Persson

Yesterday, I saw a youtube vid of Matt Cutts talking about how keyword rich domain names no longer will be as strong of a factor for high rankings as it used to be.

[Andrew Kryzak]

I don't think google ever liked us marketers using seo for free traffic. Like you say, they'll want to make it as hard as possible to force people like us into using ppc. If that requires them spreading misinformation as to what will work I'm sure they're ready to do it.

Andrew

[affiliated survivor]

It depends what you mean by "SEO". Trying to beat the system to get an unfair advantage or just doing what every webmaster has to do. There are no websites without backlinks and the rest. Even Google´s favorite authority sites do SEO. The more profitable a website, the more money they probably spend on SEO. In some niches, for instance, you just have to buy backlinks or you will be nowhere.

So if you are not allowed to do any On- or Offpage SEO, Matt Cutts speaks about a dreamworld, a reality that does not exist. And as long as Google has no entirely new ranking system everything will, more or less, stay as it is. There will be no fundamental changes. Even if the reality of today is not what it was meant to be. It´s the best they have, they have nothing better und will have to live with it.

[John Williamson]

Really? I thought Google loved people flooding their index with micro niche sites and minimal-value review sites whose sole purpose is to exploit visitors' interests and profit to the max

[paulgl]

Originally Posted by Jerry Persson

If you disagree with me, please tell me why teaching you how to SEO properly makes business sense to google?

Proper SEO is doing things google loves, so....?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Google teaches SEO via their webmaster guidelines and best
practices. It's all SEO. How about google optimization? Same thing,
right?

I have never let google run my life. But, what they say does indeed
make good business sense. Figuring out how to rank high on google
makes perfect business sense. Deciding what gives you a boost
makes terrific business sense. And it will continue to be great
business sense as long as google is the #1 search provider.

Google can have some misses. They are not perfect. But google
does not create webpages to show in search results. That's up
to you and me. They need people to create good webpages and
content. Webmasters succeeding makes them succeed.

On a side not, heck, even the creater of Java just signed on with google.
Course he's been solo for a year or so...

Paul

[Mike Anthony]

TO ALL NEWBIES BEFORE YOU BUY INTO THIS NONSENSE PLEASE READ MY RESPONSES

Originally Posted by Jerry Persson

Don't ever listen to google for SEO advice.

IF I never listened to Gogole I woul never have worried about getting links - go figure backlinks work. If I never listened to Google then I wouldn't know what Pagerank is and how to evaluate a links strength. Go figure that works too. Google tells people to put their keywords in their title. How can it be? that works too. Do I listen to every thing they say? Nope but obviously you way overstated your case to the level of ridiculous by saying ever. Truth is most of what Google says flat out works. In fact if Google really wanted to totally destroy SEO then all they have to do is stop providing tools for us to do it. try evaluating a link without knowing its pagrank at all. or how about them removing the search features to look at links?

You have to remember that google HATES SEO with a passion and does whatever it takes to stop it (including lying to you).

As someone rightfuilly pointed out thats your kind of SEO.

Here are two strong reasons why google hates SEO:

I can barely wait to read these two gems

1. SEO lowers the quality and relevancy of google's search results.

Sure because obviously again when people do SEO they can't possibly write some quality content can they?

Next! (said like Seinfeld's Soup Nazi).....

Google wants you to use adwords ppc to sell your stuff, not the organic search results.

Well theres actually some truth in that line and its the first time too. BUT you are forgetting one thing that google hasn't and that TOTALLY CONTRADICTS your reason number one as well. -

The day that Google stops showing good results in favor of just ads they know their traffic will dry up.


So you are wrong. They want both actually. They want great content to be on the front page so that users will keep using them and they want the guys that can't place in the top ten to pay them. There will always be more pages not on the front page than on it.

As mentioned before, google makes its money when people click on its ppc ads.

No they make money when people WANT TO USE their search engine and then click on the ads. Its the organic results that bring people in. NO one says "I am going to Google to click on the ads". Sure Google wants to catch some fish (ad money) but the organic results are the bait.

Because of this, it wants to make it as difficult as possible for you to SEO your page to high rankings, hoping that you'll give up and buy ppc ads instead.

Come on guy think a bit . How many people can ever be on the front page? TEN. No more. It doesn't matter how easy they make it to rank on the front page it will become hard again for the simple fact that ONLY TEN results can EVER get on that page and the other million are going to try to get there too which will INEVITABLY make any system hard again.

You got it right that they want you to buy ads but they already have their system in place to force everyone else but ten sites for every keyword to rank. thats the beauty of their system no matter what advice you follow or they ever give you good or bad no more people will EVER be on the front page and so the others will want to buy ads. SO sorry theres no need for a huge conspiracy of deceit. Thats silly but popular on these boards. Either way Google gets theirs. SEO just determines who is going to be one of the ten. The market always stays the same relative numbers for the smucks who can't figure out a way to stop fighting with Google and give them what they want. The competition is always amongst those who can't rank

People selling in the organic search results are in direct competition with the ppc ads google wants to make money off of.

Wrong again for the same reason. You miss that no matter what there will only be ten on the front page and all the rest have to buy ads or learn how to bump one of the ten off. You and others just have not thought it through. Theres ten and always ten so the market is always there for those not in the top ten.

Only for the low traffic terms does google have any incentive to hide how to rank from you and those terms are EASY to rank for.

So does Google ever deceive or cover the facts? Sure because often the facts make them look bad. NOT because they want to get you to use PPC. A great deal of what they put into place is to stop lazy marketers who can't possible think of a way to get good links or pay for them. They deceive most often in an attempt to disuade spamers and lazy marketers from abusing their weaknesses.

Lets be flat out honest here.

the number one reason that anyone finds SEO hard is because they can't find anyone that wants to link to their site and 7 out of ten times the people that complain are putting up worthless sites that makes google look bad when they rank. For many of those its still easy. they buy links. SO its mostly people who don't want to invest anything or write solid content that complain. To be fair the other 3 write great cotent but get lost in the sea of spammers and lazy marketers. The industry has suffered more form spammers than from Google. Used to be I could send and email to a guy that looked like he would be interested in my offers. then some spammers and lazy marketers decided to send emails to everyone regardless and even honest business inquiries are now considered illegal spam.

So today you have to find ways of interest ing site owners to link to you and its work.

Trade secret though: some of us actually don't mind it that way because we actually are willing to do some work and rank and far more aren't- the more the merrier. Life in a free market.

As a critical thinker,

No offense and welcome to the boards but you are not demonstrating critical thinking you are just buying into the resentment many have because they don't know how to work within what Google wants. Its a silly approach to think that you can be assured of an income by getting traffic from a site you are at war with. Sur eyou might be able to work it for awhile but you have no reasonable assurance of continuity until you give in and actually create something people actually want to visit.

If you disagree with me, please tell me why teaching you how to SEO properly makes business sense to google?

Already have and its obvious but you insist that SEO = bad content. I do SEO full time and every day see countless sites ranking because they get links. Guess what? A lot of them have good content and if you thought about it (because in your first point you admitted it)you'd see how that makes business sense for Google. The happier people are with their organic searches the more people use it. thats why they made the recent changes. A few months back they got some bad reviews on the quality of their search results just as other search engines were gaining some ground. Google is just like your site in one key way - they too depend on traffic and traffic that stays and returns because they found the experience useful.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by tpw

Of course, you are right on all counts.

Of course not you should have said

But have you ever noticed? Matt Cutts and Google never tell you what to do to improve your rankings. They only tell you what you shouldn't do and what they will discount.

False

Every day I use pagerank tools with data that come right from Google to evaluate whether links I am getting will help me to rank. Cutts although not lets say the most open man on the planet has stated over and over links work to get you ranked and google provides tools towards evaluating links.

Google has been very forthcoming with how they want you to rank -creating content that is viral. Cutts says this several times in their Google webmaster videos. I recall even hearing Cutts talk about press releases and content syndication. Is google giving tips for the little guy to make it? More often not. Is Google making suggestions for marketers? Why should they? thats the group that has given the net , email spam, forum spam, keyword stuffing when it used to work, MFAs etc.


To be honest most of what makes it hard these days to rank are responses that google has made to spamming. I am a marketer too but you have to look at all the parties involved and many fellow marketers are more to blame than Google. I've found links that are good for ranking and I would love to share them with some marketers but geuss what? I know from experience they would be abused to the point where they are no longer any good.

I wish Google would create systems that allow the small guy to rank like the good old days but spamming shut down the old practice of giving links to people as a normal activity on the net. I've been involved with a company that will bring that back but you know what is taking up the most time and resources? Not listening to Google

Its figuring out how to limit spamming in such a system and having to allocate real dollars to police easy cheap and lazy marketers.

[TBInternetMarketing]

Originally Posted by tpw

Of course, you are right on all counts.

But have you ever noticed? Matt Cutts and Google never tell you what to do to improve your rankings. They only tell you what you shouldn't do and what they will discount.

TPW - I was thinking this exact thought this morning. Why don't they tell you how to SEO your site the way they want? It would solve all their problems because they wouldn't get all these rubbish sites ranking. I guess the point above has something to do with it though. That little thing called ppc, although I think there will always be a market for ppc. Even if Google held your hand and showed you step by step how they want you to build your site, you would still get the impatient people using PPC or the ones that don't want to go to all the effort of SEO.

All that said, I have to say their webmasters site is pretty decent. Spent a little bit of time in there the last few weeks, and found some good data.

[High Horsepower]

Originally Posted by TBInternetMarketing

Even if Google held your hand and showed you step by step how they want you to build your site, you would still get the impatient people using PPC or the ones that don't want to go to all the effort of SEO.

Spoken by someone who doesn't understand the basics of marketing. It's amazing how much bad information is given.

If you get a R.O.I. from PPC, then use it. Use any and all methods that give a Return On Investment.

SEO guys don't understand marketing.

[Jerry Persson]

This is a response to Mike Anthonys 2000 word book of a post...

Of course google needs high quality organic search results to survive. The point is that they don't like organic search results THAT SELL. They may want informative or entartaining pages to rank high but pages that sell are only there as a necessary evil.

Like I said, organic search results that sell draw traffic away from their ppc ads. Google knows that 99% of those practicing SEO do it to sell. What can be concluded based on this? Google hates SEO.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

IF I never listened to Gogole I woul never have worried about getting links - go figure backlinks work.

Backlinks work? Thanks for that revolutionary information google! Do you have any more already obvious info you can share with me so that I can abuse you for my own monetary gain?

And before you cry out "BUT I'M NOT ABUSING THEM, MY PAGES ARE QUALITY!", just know that you're wrong and I'll tell you why a little later in this post.

Google has never shared any information people didn't already know about from testing. Testing is how you figure out how google works, not by listening blindly to authority the way you do. If google could have their way, no one would know squat.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Sure because obviously again when people do SEO they can't possibly write some quality content can they?

SEO enables quality and low quality websites to rank. That's not what google wants. Google wants quality and quality only. Besides, you don't get to decide whether your page is quality or not, other people do by linking to it. That's why google ranks pages with a lot of quality links pointing to them...

The idea is that if a lot of reputable websites are willing to send their own visitors to your page through a link, then your page must be valuable. So google sees every backlink as a vote for your page as it were. With this said, what are you doing when you're building links to your own pages? You're voting for your own pages over and over and over again. Do you really think that's what google wants you to do? I'll answer that for you: NO.

So stop with all of that "thats your kind of SEO" talk. If you're building links to your own pages, you're tricking google into believing others have liked your pages and placed links to them. You're manipulating their algorithm for your own monetary gain. That's YOUR SEO. Google hates you.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

The day that Google stops showing good results in favor of just ads they know their traffic will dry up.

So you're basically copying what I said in my first post here:

Originally Posted by Jerry Persson

The day google fails to display relevant and high quality results is the day google goes broke and dies.

In what way does SEO increase the quality of the organic search results? I've already told you how SEO enables anyone with or without quality to rank. If people didn't try to manipulate rankings with SEO, only the truly highest quality pages would rank due to natural linking from people who actually liked them.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

So you are wrong. They want both actually. They want great content to be on the front page so that users will keep using them and they want the guys that can't place in the top ten to pay them.

No. They want high quality content that DOESN'T SELL in their organic search results. The high quality part of the content keeps their users happy while the DOESN'T SELL part keeps their users clicking on ads. Google loves high quality but they hate if it sells.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Its a silly approach to think that you can be assured of an income by getting traffic from a site you are at war with. Sur eyou might be able to work it for awhile but you have no reasonable assurance of continuity until you give in and actually create something people actually want to visit.

Assurance of continuity? There's no such thing as assurance of continuity when it comes to SEO. Google can change their algorithm at any time and you will be at their mercy no matter what your pages look like.

You say that you do SEO full time. You're in for a rude awakening the day you wake up and see none of your pages ranking due to changes of the algorithm. SEO should be one of many ways you drive traffic and not something to expect assurance of continuity from.

If you like assurance of contunuity, I suggest that you take whatever money you've earned thus far and spend it on Perry Marshalls book "Definitive Guide To Adwords". This book will teach you how to become a salesman, a skill you can use to make money no matter the media.

[JSProjects]

Originally Posted by Landis Phan

matt cutts onpage seo advice is spot on. his offpage seo "advice" is so full of sh*t. But oh well, it makes my job easier if more people listens to his crap.

Agreed. Matt's idea of off page SEO is: Do absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. Don't worry. They'll come to you.

[TBInternetMarketing]

Originally Posted by High Horsepower

Spoken by someone who doesn't understand the basics of marketing. It's amazing how much bad information is given.

If you get a R.O.I. from PPC, then use it. Use any and all methods that give a Return On Investment.

SEO guys don't understand marketing.

My comment was in response to a comment that was made above, that Google doesn't want "us" to know how to SEO our sites because they want people to continue to use PPC.

The point I was trying to illustrate was that even if SEO was easy or they showed us how to do it, people would still use PPC. I am a great believer in PPC and fully believe it offers a ROI when done correctly.

[jacked]

Originally Posted by Landis Phan

matt cutts onpage seo advice is spot on. his offpage seo "advice" is so full of sh*t. But oh well, it makes my job easier if more people listens to his crap.

lol this..

[Groovystar]

Google has shot itself in the foot by giving people TOO MUCH information over the years on how they rate pages. Why did they ever have to tell us about page rank, or even that links from other sites help you rank? I guess by trying to be helpful they in fact helped create a bigger mess, but you know what the road to hell is paved with.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jerry Persson

Of course google needs high quality organic search results to survive. The point is that they don't like organic search results THAT SELL.

Yes because Google tracks what happens in your cart right? More conspiracy theories? Say hi to Adobe that ranks in the Organic listings . guess all those companies don't sell anything. they do and yet - go figure Google rewards them with a pagerank 9.

Like I said, organic search results that sell draw traffic away from their ppc ads.

and like I said apply yourself. There is no such thing. In any competitive niche there are ten and only ten results on the front page so everyone else has to buy ads to be seen. Google doesn't care at all whether they get your money or mine as long as they get it.

Backlinks work? Thanks for that revolutionary information google! Do you have any more already obvious info you can share with me so that I can abuse you for my own monetary gain?

Its obvious because they let you know for so long that they use it. Let me guess you have no idea that they didn't always use it like they do now do you? LOL. How can something that wasn't used before be obvious when they started to count it more in their algo? oh fo rthe good old days of keyword stuffing.

Google has never shared any information people didn't already know about from testing.

Pure and utter nonsense . there is no way of knowing a page's Pagerank without Google letting you know what it is. If they pulled that you wouldn't know what the value of any links is. Your point just fell through the floor.

what are you doing when you're building links to your own pages? You're voting for your own pages over and over and over again. Do you really think that's what google wants you to do? I'll answer that for you: NO.

LOL. Just what I thought. Your limited view of SEO is that all SEOs do is build their own links. Dead wrong but I can understand why on this board you think that. A lot of SEO is putting your site out there where the right people can review it and then determine ON THEIR OWN to link to it. Now will you scoff at that? Of course. because you obviously don't know how to do it because its not something you can pick up in a ten page WSO guaranteed to make $5,000 in 30 days by dominating Google's front page (and yet no one ever comes back to the thread to say they are now ranked number one for a competitive term bringing in 50,000 visits per month or more eh?).

which answers your nonsense about my SEO. Every good SEO I know does both building links and getting people to notice sites so as to allow them to link to them. Your SEO is limited.

You say that you do SEO full time. You're in for a rude awakening the day you wake up and see none of your pages ranking due to changes of the algorithm. SEO should be one of many ways you drive traffic and not something to expect assurance of continuity from.

No my poor man. SEO that is done properly and leads to good content is NOT dependent on the algorithm. That blows your mind as to be considered silly for you because you rather blindly forget one thing - repeat traffic.

The goal of SEO is to get people to a site that they want to return to. That number in ANY given month stands to be way larger than the new people searching for that phrase.

Think Warriors needs SEO anymore? Why? because when people get here they find content they want to come back to. So sure if you run your seedy looking MFA site that even a dog would howl at and the algo changes then you are dead because your entire business is based on getting someone who doesn't know or even like your site to click on a link.

He/she will never be back so your entire business depends on Google EVERY MONTH. Now a SEO that puts a strategy in place to get people to link to a site because they find it valuable ends up putting some quality on the page and guess what Voila - return traffic which equals--- continuity. Google can change their algo all they want my customer still has repeat traffic to fall back on


So endeth the book and the lesson. Class dismissed

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by TBInternetMarketing

The point I was trying to illustrate was that even if SEO was easy or they showed us how to do it, people would still use PPC. I am a great believer in PPC and fully believe it offers a ROI when done correctly.

They would have to which is my point as well because there are only ten results on the front page. BY definition anything that has ten slots with thousands of people trying to get them will NEVER be easy no matter how you set it up. Thats why its called competition.

[MaryDD]

Well, Google works for the society first that's why it is too popular today, so thinking any mean thing about Google may not be good.