The Truth about SEO software (Senuke X, Seo Link Robot, Serobot, Magic Submitter...)

[GeorgR.]

It seems that more and more of those "clones" are being released, let's name a few

* Senuke X
* Seo Link Robot
* SERobot
* Magic Submitter

All of those have some interesting things in common:

* They are using the common Web2.0 properties, Social Profiles, Forum Profiles, Bookmarking, RSS, Article Directories etc.
* Most of them need a monthly subscription
* They are all pretty expensive (eg. Senuke would cost you about $1800 every year)

Now, you can call me a ranter, whatever..but i am missing something essential:

REAL LIFE, raving results about the achieved rankings!

This is especially true after the recent Google Panda update which SEEMED to have hit Web2.0 sites also (the core of most of those software programs) - effectively meaning that those tools lost a lot of their effectiveness.

What i am saying:

I can read hours on hours every day about "strategies" and "cool features" and how X is better than Y, and how X is buggy but Y is good...but rarely any reads *anywhere* about amazing ranking results with any of the programs.

Actually, the opposite is the case.

On ***linksf**um.com , recently someone posted really pathetic ranking results having bought XXXXX for $147/month..using "oh so advanced" link strategies....but getting incredible pathetic ranking gains of maybe +2 or +5 SERP positions..which is a joke in my opinion.

"I was at position 51 before, now i am at 44".

I am waiting for the day where i read a real case study of someone using ANY of those expensive products (and not some hyped up fake "review")..where someone proves without a doubt that he gained incredible ranking results and that the software is really working for what it is INTENDED to do: Getting good Google rankings!

I am not interesting in technicalities, how advanced the software allegedly is and how better X is compared to Y..but REAL results measured in Google - in particular after the Panda update!

[Oranges]

I'll stick to manual process, even if i have to pay extra cash to my data entry workers!

[faceblogger]

I have not bought any of these software. SB, AMR, BMD & Xrumer together give me very good rankings!

[MaxZimmer]

I own Senuke X and i don't really see it as the ONLY software, which helps me get to #1.

I think it's quite useful to build some extra backlinks and stuff, and for bookmarking its also quite nice. But when you really want to climb up to #1, you'll need more than just this one software.

Cheers

[Steve Crooks]

I agree with the sentiment of your post George and you are absolutely right when you intonate that it is completely about results and not bells and whistles at the end of the day.

In my opinion these tools that you list can help with the off page SEO and I have proof of improved rankings as a result of using one those tools. However, most of the web 2.0 properties and bookmarks on their own are pretty innefective.

To be truly successful with these you still need some backlinks from (preferably) high PR pages. You also need to promote the properties you set up with these tools from already indexed pages.

My experience is this..

1. Good On page SEO gets you a long way.
2. Web 2.0 and other such low to medium quality backlinks can help with ranking.
3. The icing on the cake though are backlinks from high PR pages.

I believe it is possible to get good rankings using the tools you mention by working "smarter" with them. I plan to conduct a case study when I get some time to do this. This, I hope will give you the evidence you seek..

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

It seems that more and more of those "clones" are being released, let's name a few

* Senuke X
* Seo Link Robot
* SERobot
* Magic Submitter

All of those have some interesting things in common:

* They are using the common Web2.0 properties, Social Profiles, Forum Profiles, Bookmarking, RSS, Article Directories etc.
* Most of them need a monthly subscription
* They are all pretty expensive (eg. Senuke would cost you about $1800 every year)

Now, you can call me a ranter, whatever..but i am missing something essential:

REAL LIFE, raving results about the achieved rankings!

This is especially true after the recent Google Panda update which SEEMED to have hit Web2.0 sites also (the core of most of those software programs) - effectively meaning that those tools lost a lot of their effectiveness.

What i am saying:

I can read hours on hours every day about "strategies" and "cool features" and how X is better than Y, and how X is buggy but Y is good...but rarely any reads *anywhere* about amazing ranking results with any of the programs.

Actually, the opposite is the case.

On ***linksf**um.com , recently someone posted really pathetic ranking results having bought XXXXX for $147/month..using "oh so advanced" link strategies....but getting incredible pathetic ranking gains of maybe +2 or +5 SERP positions..which is a joke in my opinion.

"I was at position 51 before, now i am at 44".

I am waiting for the day where i read a real case study of someone using ANY of those expensive products (and not some hyped up fake "review")..where someone proves without a doubt that he gained incredible ranking results and that the software is really working for what it is INTENDED to do: Getting good Google rankings!

I am not interesting in technicalities, how advanced the software allegedly is and how better X is compared to Y..but REAL results measured in Google - in particular after the Panda update!

[paulgl]

Those programs are not bad, but they give people false hopes
and continue the myth that if they out backlink someone, then
they are going to shoot for the stars.

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

To be truly successful with these you still need some backlinks from (preferably) high PR pages.

My experience is this..

3. The icing on the cake though are backlinks from high PR pages.

Work smarter, not harder.

Originally Posted by GeorgeR.

"I was at position 51 before, now i am at 44".

Does that mean now they are only 1 inch deep in the sandbox?

Paul

[Steve Crooks]

Originally Posted by paulgl

Does that mean now they are only 1 inch deep in the sandbox?

Paul

Yep, along with all the cat doodoo.

[JSProjects]

To be honest I've never heavily used automation tools. I did give SENuke a try once but wasn't a huge fan. Scrapebox on the other hand gets used multiple times throughout the day. But that's because it does about a million different things.

To me it's always boiled down to finding a keyword or phrase with minimal to moderate competition, grabbing a domain with the phrase, making sure my on-page SEO is as perfect as possible, and generating backlinks.

You really don't need a ton of backlinks if your competition is relatively weak and your on-page SEO is good. None of these sites will really earn a lot on their own. But when you're running a lot of them it can add up.

[ankur420420]

The combined effort is what pays for in the end

Its not just one software or one technique which gives you results

Moreover, these tools can be effectively used to boost the power of 2nd tier websites which are pointing to your main site

Increasing the power of 2nd tier websites helps a lot

A web 2.0 page link is just an inner page of popular web 2.0 site but it will have even more power if you build backlinks to this page



Remember

"A tool is as powerful and smart as you are"

thanks
Ankur

[Shiva]

Nice Share!

[Brandomatic]

I am really getting sick of these subscription based tools. I guess once their products start getting popular the natural move is to subscription. I still like one time fee better.

[dp40oz]

If you can't get huge ranking gains using these tools then you are doing something wrong. I have SEO Link Robot, Senuke X, Scrapebox, VenomSEO, Profile Link Robot and AMR. I haven't manually built a link in months and have reached first page for pretty much every keyword ive targeted.

The mistake people make is they do a free trial of Senuke X for example. They run 1 or 2 campaigns with virtually no idea what they're really doing, they don't see ranking boosts and then decide that the software sucks. If you take the time to learn these tools they are incredibly powerful.

[thedude916]

I've had quite a bit of success using SEnuke, AMR, and scrapebox. I'm ranking #3 after 2 1/2 months of SEO work for a search term that gets 18k + monthly searches (EXACT match.)

It's generating me close to $200+ a day.

SEnuke works, AMR works, Scrapebox works. They are all great tools when a person knows what to do with them.

NO you cant just click the effing button and get a first page search result. That's what the newbies think.

[Rollmodl]

Originally Posted by JSProjects

To me it's always boiled down to finding a keyword or phrase with minimal to moderate competition, grabbing a domain with the phrase, making sure my on-page SEO is as perfect as possible, and generating backlinks.

You really don't need a ton of backlinks if your competition is relatively weak and your on-page SEO is good. None of these sites will really earn a lot on their own. But when you're running a lot of them it can add up.

I definitely agree. I achieved 1st page rankings without using any of the software mentioned above.

[IcedSEO-CEO]

Originally Posted by thedude916

I've had quite a bit of success using SEnuke, AMR, and scrapebox. I'm ranking #3 after 2 1/2 months of SEO work for a search term that gets 18k + monthly searches (EXACT match.)

It's generating me close to $200+ a day.

SEnuke works, AMR works, Scrapebox works. They are all great tools when a person knows what to do with them.

NO you cant just click the effing button and get a first page search result. That's what the newbies think.

I'm forced to agree on this, I have and still using magic submitter and I really enjoy it but you need to understand that your onpage SEO really matters a lot. thats the fact

[thedude916]

Originally Posted by IcedSEO-CEO

I'm forced to agree on this, I have and still using magic submitter and I really enjoy it but you need to understand that your onpage SEO really matters a lot. thats the fact

Oh no doubt about on page SEO man. Switched a static HTML site over to wordpress, enabled some plugins and went from the 10th page up to the 3rd page just with on site SEO and fresh articles.

But still, offsite SEO relates to 60% of the SERP movement.

Combine good fundamental onsite SEO, strong link building campaign = winning!

[Spags]

I will share one thing that has always helped me to climb the serps. This doesn't work for everything, as it depends who is on page one, and what type of site.

Whatever keyword or phrase I am targeting, once my page is DONE, I google the KW. Then I start visiting the top 20 or so sights for that KW. Whichever pages have a comment function, I reply to the post, with my URL (and anchor text if possible).

It is a real post, done manually by me, and I always leave a nice lengthy reply, not a bot looking reply like "you'd really summed this one up goods, do you twitter?". LOL. If the top 20 are all niche websites already this probably wont work. But usually there are a few you can comment on, and usually they are high PR. EXTRA TIP: Whenever it is businessinsider.com add a comment! It gets indexed FAST as a backlink every time.

We are only talking about 5-10 links at most, but these are related content (Google has already ranked them high for those KWs) so the link juice is golden. Extra obvious tip, if ever a .edu or .gov try and comment....

Again, this is all manual, but it really doesn't take that long. I actually do this quite often right from my iPhone during times when I have to wait, like sitting in a Doctors office, or on the train.

And for the record, as for the software mentioned by OP, and others like it... I subscribe to Incansoft for wholesale rights for a measly $20/month. This lets you RESELL ALL their software, plus use it yourself for free. It may take 6 different titles from Incansoft to do what the others do in one (don't know all the interfaces) but in the end, I believe the results are very similar. The best part is you can sell the software and get 100% commission, one sale a month, and you are in the black. And they have several software titles that can do things that the others can not, like GFX video writer.

Peace

[faysal969]

Thank you very much for your article about SEO tools. I personally like and believe manual SEO.

[joejoechen]

What these softwares generate are so called tier-2 backlinks. What you REALLLY need in order to completely KILL your competitors, are tier-1 backlinks, which is done by asking/begging/crying for a one way link from High PR blogs/sites, or you can pay the owners.. lol. Another way is to do guest posting for them with a SUPER quality article and request for 1 backlink to your site. Not that hard isn't it.

Xrumers and scrapebox gives you tier-3 links. Ideally, you need a mixture of ALL types of links so your backlink profile looks nice to Google but what gives the PUNCH is how many tier-1 links you own.

It's already so obvious now what Google is trying to do.. So if you're still stuck in generating web2.0 backlinks to compete in SEO, you will win, if your competitors are all using web2.0 too. One thing though is you will never hit jackpot if you're trying to rank for more challenging keywords because the first page results are buying/renting/creating HIGH PR backlinks while you stick with the web2.0/profile links.

Joe

[GeorgR.]

What these softwares generate are so called tier-2 backlinks. What you REALLLY need in order to completely KILL your competitors, are tier-1 backlinks, which is done by asking/begging/crying for a one way link from High PR blogs/sites, or you can pay the owners.. lol.

This is exactly the point!

I personally strongly believe (due to own ranking experience) that tier 2 links (like web2.0 etc.) can only get you "so far".

In certain niches you will simply NOT get any higher and keep being stuck on, say, page 2 or page 3 in Google, unless you get really powerful and good PR links from related sites in your niche.

The same is valid for all kinds of "low quality" blasts, or even ever so "advanced" link pyramids or whatever if they only do tier2/tier3 low quality links.

Think about it. Let's use a typical, really tough niche like "weight loss"....or any other niche where you sooner or later will be at a point where you face STRONG competition.

Google is not stupid. Its *often* not possible to get top rankings (eg. between pos 1-5 in Google) by "garbage links", web2.0, profiles, comment spamming, PR0 and PR1 trash links, even article directories. Not if other sites have good home-page backlinks.

So you can blast as many Xrumers or whatever and will be stuck.

Sadly, i have quite a number of such sites where i am convinced that i already reached that point and where such lower quality links simply wont do anything anymore.

[Groovystar]

Maybe I haven't looked around enough, but I haven't really seen ANYONE crowing about amazing SEO results for their sites. For any method or any keyword. All I've seen are people complaining they can't figure it out, it isn't working, or sometimes someone will say they saw modest improvement.

[kakaboo]

If I bought the software, I would have to pay 127/month.. and still pay/write my own articles, spin them and pay some more for captchas.

Whereas on the other hand, I can just use lastpass/roboform, organize these properties properly into my bookmarks, and post to them manually for f-r-e-e.. it only takes a while if you have lastpass set up properly to log in automatically.

Or I could spend $5 on fiver every 2-3 days to get them to post the articles for me MANUALLY on their own accounts where there wouldn't even be a chance of them deleting my accounts/posts as a spammer.

So.. I guess you are right, I personally think those products are pretty overpriced for what they actually do.

[Soren]

[I'm so tired of bias comments here on WF.. A forum should be yourself - not someone paying you a bonus to say; bring the fresh or senuke x makes me a million bobs a month! - here's my honest opinion and thoughts]

I've just tried Senuke X for 13 days.. ended up cancelling..

I've have worked with the old Senuke, I've tried Rank Builder and I've worked with Magic Submitter as well.. So I know about SEO tools and linking.

Even though I spend I minor furtune in capchas, giving it all I got, spending like 3-5 hours a day for 13 days, I wasn't able to make my backlinks count significantly.. Even though I pushed thousands of links through Linklicious, Bulk Indexing Tool and even posts on my own blog network.

I think the wizard and new take on scheduling is the biggest reason why people, at first glance, get's all excited about Senuke X... however one soon realizes that you're better off spending a bit more time, setting up your campaigns WITHOUT the wizard, since it's very limited in it's options.

I've tried pyramids, full monty, the simple ones, my own strategies... and I've run into bugs over and over again.

Senuke X is a great tool... just not after the last 2 google updates. I think the lifetime license Senuke is desperately trying to force down our throats, constantly saying "THIS IS YOUR ONLY CHANCE TO GET IT- BUY NOW" just to say.. "well, we've extended the offer" etc. is a desperate attempt to make money now, since they know the only thing the program will be able to do is do make links.. which doesn't count much in the SERPs..

The indexing module and the Xindexer service... well it's a pretty smart move, because people that are willing to pay 127 / 147$ a month is tricked into paying much more - IF they want to get their links indexed.. because lets face it.. the included 50 links per day (index rate of 30-50% after 10-30 days) is useless if you're using Senuke how it is ment to ... lots of campaigns scheduled each day, and I mean LOTS...

I guess this will cost > 200$/mo, and basically Magic Submitter does the same thing.

Ps. do you know whether or not you're allowed to buy MS through your own clickbank affiliate link? I mean.. it really shouldn't matter to them. Because then MS is like .. 37$/mo... which I think it is definitely worth.

[MikeFriedman]

None of these tools are a magic bullet.

I've achieved great rankings using BMD, Scrapebox, Sick, AMR, and SEO Link Robot. Now I am using SEnuke X and seeing good results too.

It really depends on your backlinking strategy. I believe in link wheels/pyramids. All that most of these tools do is automate what I would be doing manually or paying someone else to do manually anyhow. Instead of working on one SEO campaign at a time, I can work on many. If you didn't believe in or understand the underlying strategies behind these tools, they are not going to do you much good.

I create a lot of links manually as well to go along with what I am doing with these tools.

I think what most people fail to realize is that SEO is hard work. Sometimes very hard work. They read a little bit about SEO, think that it sounds pretty easy, get wrangled into buying some tool that they think will do all the work for them, and then give up when they didn't get the results they wanted in 4 weeks.

[Adaptise]

If you bought the software because you bought into the hype, well, you lost your money. If you bought the software because you knew it would compliment your linking strategies, then you just got your money back in multiples.

[Billy Rey]

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

None of these tools are a magic bullet.

I've achieved great rankings using BMD, Scrapebox, Sick, AMR, and SEO Link Robot. Now I am using SEnuke X and seeing good results too.

It really depends on your backlinking strategy. I believe in link wheels/pyramids. All that most of these tools do is automate what I would be doing manually or paying someone else to do manually anyhow. Instead of working on one SEO campaign at a time, I can work on many. If you didn't believe in or understand the underlying strategies behind these tools, they are not going to do you much good.

I create a lot of links manually as well to go along with what I am doing with these tools.

I think what most people fail to realize is that SEO is hard work. Sometimes very hard work. They read a little bit about SEO, think that it sounds pretty easy, get wrangled into buying some tool that they think will do all the work for them, and then give up when they didn't get the results they wanted in 4 weeks.

Amen.

Everything, from offered service, softwares, linking strategies, etc, they are just small parts of your overall seo plan. That will give long term results.

That's the way it should be.

[Rukshan]

I have used some of tools and save time with making profiles. People can make a hope before buying these software to get #1 in google. After buying these, they will not spend time to learn about the software and methods to automate SEO tasks. That's the biggest make. First we need skills

Thanks
Rukshan

[GeorgR.]

People can make a hope before buying these software to get #1 in google. After buying these, they will not spend time to learn about the software and methods to automate SEO tasks. That's the biggest make. First we need skills

This is so true!

I just spent a few hours watching Senukex tutorial videos, and while SX is "easier" compared to the older versions it is STILL a hugely complex thing to use.

The danger is actually that it allows people to quickly start "some linking", but without really good insight & knowledge it *might* probably do more harm than good for some people.

To use it effectively you need to understand about link velocity, spread out submissions...use MANY multiple accounts and so forth....and it's really tough to understand and learn all this....especially if someone makes the mistake to think:

"Oh great..this is a SEO software....it means i simply enter some stuff...then i press a button and that's it"...there is SO MUCH MORE to it.

It's really like buying a box of tools in a store and then thinking "now i am ready to build a house"...but there is much more to it until someone would be able to build a house, MUCH more.

[visimedia]

I think the automation software is just leverage. It works like this:
Imagine you want to have a trip traveling around the world. It'll take FOREVER if you ride a bike, but it'll take like few weeks by air plane. (sorry, I used very contrast example).

The leverage is : the plane ==> makes your trip faster and more comfortable.

THose SEO softwares work like that (regardless of the ranking SERPS result). So, if you know how to USE the software, what strategies to get good result, etc, then you'll get the most of your investment.

It's about you, how you can adapt with any leverage you have. It'll make your success faster, a lot faster.

[pabrigowar]

One reason I'm still skeptical about replacing my manual methods with these auto-submitters, is that I know that at some point, google is gonna put a clamp on these programs... plus doesnt google notice that you're pumping too much backlinks in the net? beyond a humanly possible amount? i think these programs are making marketers, newbies or pros, abuse the system. And that can result in low quality backlinks, natural posts, etc...

I am using a modified version just to give a bit of assistance, but at the end of the day, i have to be careful of what I'm putting out there.. cuz google is always on the hunt for bad apples...

[airpr23]

I can only speak for Senuke X. Firstoff SEO is a long term process and there's no magic bullet that's going to bring in massive results overnight. Next with the new Google updates, as long as you're producing good, unique and quality content you then have nothing to worry about when using automated software programs. Also if you have crappy on-page SEO it's going to take twice as much work to rank and stay ranked for high traffic keywords. So before purchasing any automated software I would make sure you have everything I just mentioned together.

Senuke X does work. It's just a software that automates everything. The key with it, is using quality content, if you push out garbage you'll get garbage back. It's that simple. And that pretty much goes with anything in SEO, having quality content is key. The main problem isn't that SEnukeX doesn't work, it's most people don't want to take the time or spend the money to have quality content created.

Lastly, like anything in life, it takes time to learn. I would say the average person who has some basic knowledge about SEO needs at least a month or 3 weeks to really begin to understand how to properly use the software in the most effective way possible. It's like driving a car, there are good drivers and bad drivers. It just depends on the person behind the wheel, and the same goes for SEnuke X.

[simonbuzz]

I do my work everything manually....

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

If you can't get huge ranking gains using these tools then you are doing something wrong. I have SEO Link Robot, Senuke X, Scrapebox, VenomSEO, Profile Link Robot and AMR. I haven't manually built a link in months and have reached first page for pretty much every keyword ive targeted.

The mistake people make is they do a free trial of Senuke X for example. They run 1 or 2 campaigns with virtually no idea what they're really doing, they don't see ranking boosts and then decide that the software sucks. If you take the time to learn these tools they are incredibly powerful.

Originally Posted by thedude916

I've had quite a bit of success using SEnuke, AMR, and scrapebox. I'm ranking #3 after 2 1/2 months of SEO work for a search term that gets 18k + monthly searches (EXACT match.)

It's generating me close to $200+ a day.

SEnuke works, AMR works, Scrapebox works. They are all great tools when a person knows what to do with them.

NO you cant just click the effing button and get a first page search result. That's what the newbies think.

I'm in the same boat! If it wasn't for SENUKE, AMR, SB I would not be half as successful as I am today.

I believe this is a case study that I'm about to unfold. I had a site that was stuck at #8 as of April. After SENUKE X came out, I scheduled 3 rounds of SENUKE X in one sitting to spread over 2 weeks and my site jumped to #1 and then came down to #3 (the current top listing is a double listing from an authority site). SENUKE X was the only thing that I did. This is just the most recent example.

And notice that this is post Panda!

I did use the web 2.0, PR, bookmarking, RSS, profile and pinging modules of SENUKE X.

I'm no SEO expert, however I think if you use these things properly they work.

I've outlined here how I use SENUKE (I have used Rank Builder, Magic Submitter, SENUKE, SENUKE X at different time points - I have done this using all of these)

First of all you need to make sure the content you submit is really unique - here's how I do that

Then you need to make sure Google indexes your properties. No point having a million 100% unique articles without getting them indexed
here's how I do that

I'm sure this is not the only way that works nor the most efficient way of getting it done. As of May 15th 2011 it works for me

[jony09]

I have been using SeNUke X for slightly over a month now and have seen some pretty amazing results...I am currently employed with a jewelry company and we have an online jewelry store....SeNuke X has really helped us achieve some fantastic results for terms such as online jewelry stores, discount jewelry online and sterling silver jewelry...all of which extremely competitive. Not saying SeNuke X is all we have used however it has had a substantial impact on the website's rankings.

[Focused Action]

There have been many references to getting high quality backlinks from high pr pages. I know there is a lot of confusion where people think getting a link from a "high PR website" is the same as getting a link from a "high PR web page" - it is not.

So, are there any recommendations on how best to get high pr web page links??

I have read through the forum and heard that services such as Build My Rank is good for this?

[kaluuu]

i just think we should buy this softwares after we had done some manual work in seo, and after we are very informated about the software we are going to buy.

But lets face it, a lot of the people that say the softwares are very expensive and they dont worth the costs, they mean to xrumer or senuke .... i dont believe that amr or scrapebox are so expensive and inneficient(lets not forget, one time fee) . I bet that 90% of the people that said bad things about the softwares, they really have 1-2 bought.

I personally am about to buy amr and later on scrapebox.... i watched all the tutorials that i found on the internet about them, asked some people for info....
Now i decided that is time to buy them, but i did some manual work, about 1 year of seo before i decided this..... I dont want to buy something that i will never understand how to use or what it does.

[ZaneZenMaster]

Great point;
You can always Outsource someone to do your linking who most of the time use SENuke X and all these other software...
But deny it to keep their jobs.
Most of the major Gurus out there who do their own linking use automated software.
Or get people to create there own.
But.. pssh.. my point is the solution usually leads to outsourcing links from companies and people who already use automated software, doesn't have to be the ones you listed.

[SEOguymike]

These tools are used if you know what you are doing, if you are a high pr 5 blog networks then these tools come in handy. I agree that most of these tools are aimed at bigger businesses because it is just not likely someone making 1000 on websites would even consider senuke because there's just so much more you can do with the 127 than rent out senuke.

You can buy articles, hire entry clerk, and even use it to buy dirt cheap manual bookmarking services, web2.0 creations, article submission, directory submission, and xrumer services. The internet is huge, there's always going to be great deals if there's a huge market to satisfy.

Anyways that's my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

[milton11011]

Originally Posted by Oranges

I'll stick to manual process, even if i have to pay extra cash to my data entry workers!

yeah, same here

[sabina24]

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

It seems that more and more of those "clones" are being released, let's name a few

* Senuke X
* Seo Link Robot
* SERobot
* Magic Submitter

All of those have some interesting things in common:

* They are using the common Web2.0 properties, Social Profiles, Forum Profiles, Bookmarking, RSS, Article Directories etc.
* Most of them need a monthly subscription
* They are all pretty expensive (eg. Senuke would cost you about $1800 every year)

Now, you can call me a ranter, whatever..but i am missing something essential:

REAL LIFE, raving results about the achieved rankings!

This is especially true after the recent Google Panda update which SEEMED to have hit Web2.0 sites also (the core of most of those software programs) - effectively meaning that those tools lost a lot of their effectiveness.

What i am saying:

I can read hours on hours every day about "strategies" and "cool features" and how X is better than Y, and how X is buggy but Y is good...but rarely any reads *anywhere* about amazing ranking results with any of the programs.

Actually, the opposite is the case.

On ***linksf**um.com , recently someone posted really pathetic ranking results having bought XXXXX for $147/month..using "oh so advanced" link strategies....but getting incredible pathetic ranking gains of maybe +2 or +5 SERP positions..which is a joke in my opinion.

"I was at position 51 before, now i am at 44".

I am waiting for the day where i read a real case study of someone using ANY of those expensive products (and not some hyped up fake "review")..where someone proves without a doubt that he gained incredible ranking results and that the software is really working for what it is INTENDED to do: Getting good Google rankings!

I am not interesting in technicalities, how advanced the software allegedly is and how better X is compared to Y..but REAL results measured in Google - in particular after the Panda update!

Completaly agree.... I am waiting for real results as well. I've seen people spend on SEO software that deliver none or very little results...

But, we all have to know that these "gurus" that are selling us the software, use these techniques to get the big bucks themselves and then when they see those methods don't work anymore, they sell them and people buy 'em.

[gamemerlin]

this is a good point:

What these softwares generate are so called tier-2 backlinks. What you REALLLY need in order to completely KILL your competitors, are tier-1 backlinks, which is done by asking/begging/crying for a one way link from High PR blogs/sites, or you can pay the owners.

so i am thinking about buying these expensive software. i have scrapebox and xrumer, thinking about venom seo, seo link robot, se nuke

KEY QUESTION, if i buy / create a tier 1 link, will sending my tier 2 and tier 3 links make my created / bought link stronger or have no effect?

yeah seems like the only reason u would want to use these auto bot software is to maybe raise a webpages rank, but i've never done this, does it work? i have read ppl recommend it, but never heard someone say yes i do this and it works.

anyone with experience doing this please share your experiences

[TheMarketingGuy]

I believe the best SEO tool is your brain :P The rest are only "assistants."

[Sparda]

I believe outsourcing is the best tool you could use(better results and a lot cheaper than those Over-Hyped tools).

[Psykryph]

finally someone who thinks all of these black hat softwares are nothing but crap.

Senuke in particular I think is one of the worst programs ever made.

[vinpaul]

Good, long discussion. Thanks to all that posted their opinion and insights.

I, personally, do nearly all my link building manually and focus only on links with PR. Low-quality links aren't worth the time in my experience.

Happy hunting.

[Joseph Then]

Originally Posted by Sparda

I believe outsourcing is the best tool you could use(better results and a lot cheaper than those Over-Hyped tools).

I've just calculated that the cost of outsourcing all my backlinking projects is MORE EXPENSIVE than just paying monthly fees to (SENuke/XIndexer/Captcha) + Traffic Kaboom + UAW + SEOLV + AR + MAN combined.

So I'll rather stick with what I have now. And it works very well for me in post Panda era.

[Juvv2096]

I personally use SEO tools to help save time and reduce the amount of effort it takes to get somewhere. wether its find out some information, or look for something or drive up the SERPs. I dont have 10 hrs a day to spend on doing SEO manually, and I want results sooner rather than later.

I have used SENUKEX thoroughly and found it good for some things, and bad for others. The default lists is what kills senukex. Every person who uses it, uses the default list of social boomarks, web 2.0's etc and thats where I think it falls apart. There is no diversity with it unless you spend the time and effort and make your own lists.

Scrapebox has a few nifty features I like, which is mainly the scraping tool, but as far as commenting on blogs etc goes, I dont do it as I think those types of posts are a waste of time for me personally. I would also not link them to a money site.

I feel that there is no reason why you wouldnt use tools to speed up your processes, but you are still going to have to have the "know how" and ability to get the right type of back links for your site.

So much time is wasted when doing SEO by people for the results that they get back. I guess its trial and error at the end of the day though right? Find out what works for you and keep on plugging away.

Fantastic thread this one, really enjoyed peoples responses.

[Kael41]

There are SO many factors which go into whether a tool succeeds for ANY given domain, it's not even funny. I get it that many people here probably have a couple of sites that they spend their time and efforts on, and wouldn't need the firepower that some of these tools offer.

Here's my experience and it goes counter to what many are saying within this thread, and here is why.

At any given moment, I've got +/- over 450 websites within my portfolio that go back to domains I've owned since '97. You can imagine the upkeep that many of these sites demand, and I do have my fair share of 10,000 page authority websites that get massive traffic on a daily basis, and I also have a ton of small to midsize niche sites that do respectfully well too. Point is, they all require some sort of maintanance.

Now, I could have gone the outsourcing method, and I've done so in the past. Work smarter, not harder. If it costs me $4 to make $8, I'll do it every day of the week. That's outsourcing for you.

But over time I've gone the way of automation as well. There's a reason I own several Dell blade servers housed in a data warehouse farm here in Houston. A) I love virtualization and B) I love the ability to control my costs up front and know what my spend is going to be relative to my ROI. That's one of the benefits of utilizing software packages to increase my hold or even gain new hold with new websites.

Now, I'm not going to get into the argument/discussion of crappy links versus good tier 1 authority links..common sense reigns supreme here. What I do for myself is utilize several toolsets to adjust my link/web2.0/social media site/press releases/link directories accordingly.

The reason I say that a tool will or will not work for any given domain, is due to the who the competition might be and what kind of link gathering you may be doing with the tools. It's widely acknowledged that if you rip of a 100k link building session with Xrumer and fire off a 30k AA list through Scrapebox..bad things will probably happen to that site.

And that's where the expertise on knowing how to game Google's several indexes come into play. If you just do a massive link dump and the spiders are going crazy with a certain url, coming from certain kind of footprints, you WILL trip off a flag within Google's index.

BUT, if you temper your linking strategies accordingly, and play it smart with the tools, you can set yourself up for some very very successful link building exercises in the future. It's just a question of how much knoweldge building do you want to invest in the process.

Put it simply: anyone can fire a gun. You pull the trigger. But not everyone can field strip an M16 or M4, switch out firing pins and springs and repurpose those parts in other guns.

One guy is clearly more knowledgeable on the subject matter and will probably be a better shot as well

[traderbenji]

Originally Posted by Steve Crooks

I agree with the sentiment of your post George and you are absolutely right when you intonate that it is completely about results and not bells and whistles at the end of the day.

In my opinion these tools that you list can help with the off page SEO and I have proof of improved rankings as a result of using one those tools. However, most of the web 2.0 properties and bookmarks on their own are pretty innefective.

To be truly successful with these you still need some backlinks from (preferably) high PR pages. You also need to promote the properties you set up with these tools from already indexed pages.

My experience is this..

1. Good On page SEO gets you a long way.
2. Web 2.0 and other such low to medium quality backlinks can help with ranking.
3. The icing on the cake though are backlinks from high PR pages.

I believe it is possible to get good rankings using the tools you mention by working "smarter" with them. I plan to conduct a case study when I get some time to do this. This, I hope will give you the evidence you seek..

Steve,
Have you conducted your case study? would be interested to know the results, as I am sure a lot of other people on here would as well.

Cheers
Ben

[GeorgR.]

baffled that this thread is still alive and buzzing

As for SEO tools, as always it depends what you make of it. I THINK many people use them in the wrong way without thinking through strategies and out of the box.

You can use SenukeX (or any other similar tool) and have no success with it since you expect to click a button and then being #1 next week. This is just not how it works. But you can use such software as tools and you CAN use them in smart ways.

Personally i dont think that software like SenukeX *alone* wont do anything exceptional since they are too limited in their range of where they post links (web2.0, articles, BM etc.) which is not diverse ENOUGH..and Google will also have those sites on their #list for some time already, i can see that.

But used in addition they can be helpful. Say, you already established a good and rather quality link profile for your sites..then it certainly can help to boost your site with more web2.0 links, bookmarks etc.