Getting Out of the Sandbox Explained!

[dp40oz]

Ok so there are tons of threads out there with people complaining they've been sandboxed. In one of the threads I mentioned how I have about a 90-95% success rate at climbing out of the so called "sandbox" and have received many PM's on how to do this. I figured I should start a thread explaining some of my methods as a reference to help others. If this ends up being useful to you please hit the thanks button as im trying to build my reputation a bit more around here.

First lets start with a diagram.



This is a webpage that I used in another thread as an example. When my site started it got indexed with a few articles and was ranking in the lower 20's. I then sent 10,000 profile links and 10,000 blog comments at the site in 1 day. As you can see it then plummeted for about 2 weeks to the 300's and then I did my method and BAMM! Back strong! Now ive had a steady rise but the site just wasn't getting to the top 5 like I wanted. Then I blasted the hell out of the page again, it went up to #7, then to #10 then to #295, Sandboxed again! Now at this point I wrote in another sandboxing thread how I guarantee I can get my site out of the sandbox and back to #5. You can check out the discussion here Sandbox Discussion. I then did my method, the site flew out of the sandbox hit around #7 again which was disappointing, I just blasted some more links and it hit #5 then "sandboxed" again. Now ive seen my site hit #5 before going to the sandbox. Basically id be happy with a #5 ranking to where I don't need to play the sandbox game in order to push my site up the rankings anymore. I will now use my methods to bring the site out of the sandbox once again and have it stay at #5, then slow my link building to where I can slowly climb from there.

Im showing you this so you can see im not just blowing smoke. I use Googles sandbox as I way to be able to pound tons of links to gain better rankings. Then I use my methods to pull it out of the Sandbox. Im not recommending this as a good link building method because it takes a strong person to stomach the huge sudden drops especially when you had page 1 rankings and tomorrow Google could change its algo and I might not be able to pull myself out anymore.

My idea behind what the sandbox is that you have this incredibly vast algorithm that has to literally deal with every single collection of letters, numbers and sort webpages in some order that will give a quality result. Now lets say you take a search term "black leg warmer for dancers". Hypothetically this robot maybe has a collection of about 5000 times that its seen this exact phrase in anchor text. Now someone goes and throws 20,000 links all with that phrase or something extremely similar at the robot all going to the same page.

Now if I were sorting threw something physically id take that thing that was getting lots of votes and put it to the side. Then i'd reorganize everything that didn't change and then find where to place this newly popular thing, this is somewhat similar to the google dance. I think we all like to believe Google is better then it is. Maybe it takes time to reorganize this, especially for these niche phrases that Google probably doesn't care much about and possibly more time then we like to believe the almighty Google could possibly take. Combine all that with a little bit of wanting to hide the algorithm to possible spammers and analysts. The difference between the dance and the sandbox to me though is a temporary penalty, I don't believe Google has permanent penalties other then de-indexing. These temporary penalties are there I feel to scare you off from preceding with your link building if you are indeed a spammer and all that to me is TADA!!! THE SANDBOX!!!

So how do you get out of the sandbox? Well heres my method, it works for me almost every single time, but then again I build links my way so maybe your building methods won't work the same way.

Google wants to see varied link building schemes. So like I said earlier I took my site and pounded 10,000 blog comments and 10,000 profile links. Maybe you got an Xrumer package from a fellow warrior that sandboxed your site. Now what you'll need to do is basically equal out your link portfolio to Google. If you have built 10,000 profile links that sandboxed you then you're gonna need to start pounding Senuke and AMR to get tons of web 2.0 and article directory links to eventually even out your sites link portfolio and have Google say "ok penalty lifted" and BAM now all those links you ever built start counting. This works like a charm if you were sandboxed for spammy blog comments and profile links.

Now its a bit more difficult if its the other way around and you were sandboxed due to articles or web 2.0s. Usually this only happens if your site is very new and you really pounded it with links out of nowhere. I feel its much harder to get sandboxed for these types of links so if you did, congratulations you really made a splash! Like the previous method I would start trying to even out the link portfolio with some blog comments and xrumer blasts but be somewhat careful as these can do as much harm as good. Go a bit more slowly then you would the other way around. Now you are also going to need more varied articles. Things like Article Ranks, UAW can definitely help. With constantly drip feeding more articles you will be showing Google that your site is still building these quality links. If you can afford Build My Rank or Linkvana, they will offer high PR links that will really get Google to lift that temporary penalty.

All in all your site will probably come back on its own but it could take months. So using these techniques can speed it up. If people are interested in this thread I will report back and show you how my example website will be back on page 1 whenever I decide I want it to as further proof that this works. Sorry for the incredibly long thread but I hope this helps some people. Id love to see more warriors contributing quality to the community instead of pretending their secrets are black magic or something.

[JayVance]

Good post. I've been sandboxed and to get out I've just blasted even more backlinks at my sites. Within a week or two I'm back where I was. Best bet is just to avoid being sandboxed by having a balanced backlinking strategy.

Google likes to see a steady rate of backlinks, if it doesn't it thinks it's fishy that a site gets 1000 backlinks one day and zero the next.

[paulgl]

So when you over take those 50-100 sites in front of you, does
that mean they are now sandboxed? And what if they follow
your advice? It's just leap-frog then. Everybody claiming
sandboxed.

And what does that say about the sites still below you.
Are they double-secret sandboxed?

So much nonsense. Get 1,000 backlinks a day, then you have to do that
the rest of your life? Get a grip people. Google could care less
about how many backlinks you build.

I know it pains a lot of people, but that sticky at the top of this section
is there for a reason. Read it.
SEO - Frequently Asked Questions

What's the sandbox?

The disappointment webmasters feel when Google's stupid algorithms don't appreciate their site. It can't be them so it must be Google's fault.

Paul

[Chris Sweeney]

Yeah most of my sites all took a hard hit in the SERPs almost two weeks ago because of my pounding the crap out of them with links, so for the past week I've just been steadily building more links, so hopefully that brings them back.

[JayVance]

Originally Posted by paulgl

So when you over take those 50-100 sites in front of you, does
that mean they are now sandboxed? And what if they follow
your advice? It's just leap-frog then. Everybody claiming
sandboxed.

And what does that say about the sites still below you.
Are they double-secret sandboxed?

So much nonsense. Get 1,000 backlinks a day, then you have to do that
the rest of your life? Get a grip people. Google could care less
about how many backlinks you build.

I know it pains a lot of people, but that sticky at the top of this section
is there for a reason. Read it.
SEO - Frequently Asked Questions



Paul

You got a little anger there don't ya? By your logic, all sites not ranked #1 are sandboxed.

Want to know what a Google penalty is? I had a site two weeks ago penalized by Google. Targeted a competitive keyword, blasted with backlinks because I really didn't care about the outcome, and that site was on page 1 in a week. Then after a while it was penalized and doesn't even show up in the top 100 of the serps.

Sandbox effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EDIT: Forgot to say, for new sites, the balance of backlinks is crucial. If you have an aged domain Google could care less what you do. You are only penalized for the keyword you are targeting, not all keywords.

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by paulgl

So when you over take those 50-100 sites in front of you, does
that mean they are now sandboxed? And what if they follow
your advice? It's just leap-frog then. Everybody claiming
sandboxed.

And what does that say about the sites still below you.
Are they double-secret sandboxed?

So much nonsense. Get 1,000 backlinks a day, then you have to do that
the rest of your life? Get a grip people. Google could care less
about how many backlinks you build.

I know it pains a lot of people, but that sticky at the top of this section
is there for a reason. Read it.
SEO - Frequently Asked Questions



Paul

??? I have no idea what you are trying to say? Your argument makes no sense. If I understand you correctly which I don't think I do then no the sites that are now below me are not sandboxed they have now just dropped 1 spot because Google has lifted its temporary penatly and now placed my site in front of them due to my link portfolio and on page SEO being better then theirs. Also once you even out your link portfolio you don't need to keep building 1000 links a day. I know this from experience.

Paul as your post count suggests you are very experienced in SEO yet when ive read your posts you don't ever seem to offer up quality advice or in depth techniques. You like to trash that other people are wrong and in this instance you are suggesting my advice is garbage which I know its not. It works I have proof and I can show more. So please don't bring down a thread that is trying to help others.

[LMC]

an easier way of doing things would be a temporary 302 redirect to a page of keyword stuffing and content and then removing this page after 24 hours.

I've seen this work plenty of times.

However, in the past few months I've seen that if you have original content with link diversity the sandbox (dance) won't be placed.\

It's all very interesting... one of my favorite parts of IM is testing the boundaries of the penalties and alogrithems

[dburk]

Originally Posted by JayVance

Want to know what a Google penalty is? I had a site two weeks ago penalized by Google. Targeted a competitive keyword, blasted with backlinks because I really didn't care about the outcome, and that site was on page 1 in a week. Then after a while it was penalized and doesn't even show up in the top 100 of the serps.

Hi JayVance,

You just described the typical result of the QDF freshness factor.

QDF is a temporary boost, NOT A PENALTY!

You seem to be reasoning that since QDF is temporary, when it wears off you are now under a penalty. That doesn't make since to me, unless you were oblivious to the effects of QDF.

YouTube - "Query deserves freshness." Fact or...

[Mike Grant]

Originally Posted by paulgl

Google could care less
about how many backlinks you build.

I know it pains a lot of people, but that sticky at the top of this section
is there for a reason. Read it.
SEO - Frequently Asked Questions



Paul

Sure Google cares.

That FAQ also sucks.

[Brendan Mace]

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi JayVance,

You just described the typical result of the QDF freshness factor.

QDF is a temporary boost, NOT A PENALTY!

You seem to be reasoning that since QDF is temporary, when it wears off you are now under a penalty. That doesn't make since to me, unless you were oblivious to the effects of QDF.

YouTube - "Query deserves freshness." Fact or fiction?

Yes. The QDF exists but so does the sandbox.

I can't believe that peeps think there's no sandbox or algorithm penalties. Maybe you have to experience one to understand....

I've experienced both the QDF and the sandbox (for various penalties) and they are both very, very real.

The recent panda update has been about penalizing low quality content. And from what I've seen from my sites. Google will either not touch your site at all. Or it will smack you to next week (ie sandbox).

This shows that google has certain flags that will upset the algorithm, and send your site WAY down the serps. If it was more of a gradual decrease in ranking, then I would agree with the assertion that a sandbox doesn't exist. But since google can 'all of a sudden' take your site from page 1 to page 100... there must be some sort of penalties and controls in the algorithm.

And of course google cares about your backlinks. They play a large part in determining your overall rankings. Figuring out where websites should be placed in the rankings is kinda google's main job.

[4morereferrals]

Originally Posted by paulgl

So when you over take those 50-100 sites in front of you, does
that mean they are now sandboxed? And what if they follow
your advice? It's just leap-frog then. Everybody claiming
sandboxed.

And what does that say about the sites still below you.
Are they double-secret sandboxed?

So much nonsense. Get 1,000 backlinks a day, then you have to do that
the rest of your life? Get a grip people. Google could care less
about how many backlinks you build.

I know it pains a lot of people, but that sticky at the top of this section
is there for a reason. Read it.
SEO - Frequently Asked Questions



Paul

The links in your sig are for what then?

[theking2]

Originally Posted by LMC

an easier way of doing things would be a temporary 302 redirect to a page of keyword stuffing and content and then removing this page after 24 hours.

I've seen this work plenty of times.

However, in the past few months I've seen that if you have original content with link diversity the sandbox (dance) won't be placed.

It's all very interesting... one of my favorite parts of IM is testing the boundaries of the penalties and alogrithems

By link diversity, do you mean diversity in the type of links you are getting or how many sources your links come from?

[dburk]

Originally Posted by co2

Yes. The QDF exists but so does the sandbox.

No, according to Google there is no "Sandbox" penalty.

Originally Posted by co2

I can't believe that peeps think there's no sandbox or algorithm penalties. Maybe you have to experience one to understand....

I've experienced both the QDF and the sandbox (for various penalties) and they are both very, very real.

Again, QDF is a temporary boost, not a penalty.

Originally Posted by co2

The recent panda update has been about penalizing low quality content. And from what I've seen from my sites. Google will either not touch your site at all. Or it will smack you to next week (ie sandbox).

Again, the Panda update was an algorithm update that improved the quality of search results, not a penalty.

Originally Posted by co2

This shows that google has certain flags that will upset the algorithm, and send your site WAY down the serps. If it was more of a gradual decrease in ranking, then I would agree with the assertion that a sandbox doesn't exist. But since google can 'all of a sudden' take your site from page 1 to page 100... there must be some sort of penalties and controls in the algorithm.

I cannot agree, It seems more likely that your web page deserved to be on page 100 while it was temporarily boosted to the top of search results due to the freshness factor (QDF). Once the freshness wore off, it sank to it's truly earned ranking. We see the same thing happen everyday to many web pages, it should not surprise a seasoned webmaster.

Originally Posted by co2

And of course google cares about your backlinks. They play a large part in determining your overall rankings. Figuring out where websites should be placed in the rankings is kinda google's main job.

I'll assume you are addressing paulgl's reply, so I'll let him respond to this portion of your post.

[Brendan Mace]

Originally Posted by dburk

No, according to Google there is no "Sandbox" penalty.



Again, QDF is a temporary boost, not a penalty.



Again, the Panda update was an algorithm update that improved the quality of search results, not a penalty.



I cannot agree, It seems more likely that your web page deserved to be on page 100 while it was temporarily boosted to the top of search results due to the freshness factor (QDF). Once the freshness wore off, it sank to it's truly earned ranking. We see the same thing happen everyday to many web pages, it should not surprise a seasoned webmaster.



I'll assume you are addressing paulgl's reply, so I'll let him respond to this portion of your post.

Can you please use some common sense.

"The panda update was an algorithm update that improved the quality of search results, not a penalty."

Yeah, it was an algorithm update that penalized sites with low quality content. Sites that were flagged (EZA, Hubpages, etc) all received MASSIVE penalties.

Whereas sites that were not penalized received small gains (due to less competitors).

Contrary to what most people think. Google CANNOT determine content quality <---- It's a robot, not a human.

So instead of rewarding high quality sites, g-bot penalizes low quality sites

I bolded the word 'penalized' above just to make it clear.

Let me restate .....

1. google cannot determine the quality level of content

2. google uses an algorithm to determine the authority or popularity of a site (ie. backlinks, time on site, etc)

3. google dishes out penalties ... or in other words sandboxes sites that are flagged by the algorithm (ie. scraped content, unnatural backlink velocity, etc)

I already said in my last post that I agree that the QDF exists. But there sure as heck is google penalties as well.

From personal testing, I have about 20 websites. All created in approximately the same way.

2 of the websites have drastically dropped since the big bad panda.

The other 18 are relatively stable.

These sites are already WAY past the QDF period. And yes, two have them have received penalties.

[Brendan Mace]

Also... I never said the QDF was a penalty. Obviously it's a boost that eventually disappears. That being said, it still feels like a penalty because the first time you notice it is when it's gone. (rankings drop)

Anyone with an autoblog or who's backlink spammed like crazy will have experienced a penalty at some point.

For example, if I had a unique and 'high quality' homepage. But I then immediately posted a thousand scraped posts using autoblog software. In a matter of days (maybe even hours) google would smack my entire site. (including my home page...)

Do you honestly think there's no such thing as a SE penalty? <---- serious question, I'm actually concerned about you

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by co2

Also... I never said the QDF was a penalty. Obviously it's a boost that eventually disappears. That being said, it still feels like a penalty because the first time you notice it is when it's gone. (rankings drop)

Anyone with an autoblog or who's backlink spammed like crazy will have experienced a penalty at some point.

For example, if I had a unique and 'high quality' homepage. But I then immediately posted a thousand scraped posts using autoblog software. In a matter of days (maybe even hours) google would smack my entire site. (including my home page...)

Do you honestly think there's no such thing as a SE penalty? <---- serious question, I'm actually concerned about you

Anyone who's seen a penalty has no doubt that they exist. Im not sure why people even argue this.

[dburk]

Originally Posted by co2

Can you please use some common sense.

"The panda update was an algorithm update that improved the quality of search results, not a penalty."

Yeah, it was an algorithm update that penalized sites with low quality content. Sites that were flagged (EZA, Hubpages, etc) all received MASSIVE penalties.

Whereas sites that were not penalized received small gains (due to less competitors).

Contrary to what most people think. Google CANNOT determine content quality <---- It's a robot, not a human.

So instead of rewarding high quality sites, g-bot penalizes low quality sites

I bolded the word 'penalized' above just to make it clear.

I'm sorry but I must disagree with your conclusions and point out what I see as a factual error in your post.

Let's review some verifiable facts and hopefully those who are willing to see the truth in those facts may draw different conclusions from the exact same events.

The Panda update was proceeded by a highly publicized story about JC Penny's website ranking, based on obvious web spam, that was somewhat embarrassing to Google's Search Quality Team. In my opinion, the Panda update seemed to be a response to that event.

Many people discussing that story on blogs and forums constantly refrred to JC Penny's website being "penalized" (bolded for clarity ). Due to those discussions, I can see how many folks came to accept the notion that the JC Penny website had been penalized, however on closer inspection it was quite clear that the JC Penny "website" was not penalized. It still ranked number one for many keywords, including some of the keywords that were promoted by that web spam.

As I did a postmortem analysis on the JC Penny website I found that the only thing that happened was that Google devalued the web spam backlinks that were hosted on other websites. No apparent penalty was found that directly applied to the JC Penny website.

This was not new or any different than what Google had already been doing all along. The only thing significantly different was the negative publicity for both Google and JC Penny. I believe that negative publicity prompted a tweak in the algorithm that came to be known as the Panda update.

The Panda update seemed to programmatically do what the web spam team was already doing after a human review. The result was a much quicker and more thorough discovery of web spam and it's devaluation.

If you take a closer look at those websites that you claimed were "penalized", you will discover that the website itself was not penalized. It appears that the only thing that happened was web spam was detected and devalued, and all web page rankings based on meritorious links were unaffected on those same websites.

Originally Posted by co2

Let me restate .....

1. google cannot determine the quality level of content

2. google uses an algorithm to determine the authority or popularity of a site (ie. backlinks, time on site, etc)

3. google dishes out penalties ... or in other words sandboxes sites that are flagged by the algorithm (ie. scraped content, unnatural backlink velocity, etc)

I already said in my last post that I agree that the QDF exists. But there sure as heck is google penalties as well.

From personal testing, I have about 20 websites. All created in approximately the same way.

2 of the websites have drastically dropped since the big bad panda.

The other 18 are relatively stable.

These sites are already WAY past the QDF period. And yes, two have them have received penalties.

Again, I disagree with your conclusions.

Google uses signals of relevancy that are combined to create a total relevancy score. Your web pages are ranked in SERP based on that relevancy score. Some of those signals are used to weight the value of certain key relevancy signals. Most notably PageRank and Trust which is used to weight the value of inbound anchortext relevancy scores.

If the Trust and/or PR of an external web page is reduced, this is not the same as a "penalty" on your website. It is simply prevented from effecting your web pages in any way. You might choose to refer to that as a penalty, but that really stretches the definition beyond anything within reason, in my opinion.

[paulgl]

Originally Posted by Mike Grant

Sure Google cares.

That FAQ also sucks.

Hey Mike, I know we disagree on that sandbox thing.
Not a big deal. I abstain from threads you start or first answer
on the subject. We'll just have to disagree on that one.

Paul

[Stan da Man]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Now its a bit more difficult if its the other way around and you were sandboxed due to articles or web 2.0s. Usually this only happens if your site is very new and you really pounded it with links out of nowhere. I feel its much harder to get sandboxed for these types of links so if you did, congratulations you really made a splash!

I got my site slammed using AMR. The site was relatively new and ranking well after the first AMR run. I was using a heavily spun and optimized article. I submitted it twice over a 4 week period. Half way through the 2nd run (drip fed over a week) the site increased in rankings. Almost immediately after the 2nd run it's no longer in the top 1,000 for any of the keywords. It's been around a month and it still isn't back. I've done some other diversified linking in the meantime. Occasionally it will bounce into the top 200 for the easiest keywords.

I appreciate the congratulations, but money would be better

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by Stan da Man

I got my site slammed using AMR. The site was relatively new and ranking well after the first AMR run. I was using a heavily spun and optimized article. I submitted it twice over a 4 week period. Half way through the 2nd run (drip fed over a week) the site increased in rankings. Almost immediately after the 2nd run it's no longer in the top 1,000 for any of the keywords. It's been around a month and it still isn't back. I've done some other diversified linking in the meantime. Occasionally it will bounce into the top 200 for the easiest keywords.

I appreciate the congratulations, but money would be better

Sorry to hear that, yea that'll happen. Don't sweat it it'll be back, it may take a few months though. If this happened in the last few days then wait it out because tons of sites have been dropped, it looks like Googles doing some work so it may not be anything other then Google tweaking for a few days.

If it happened more then a few days ago I'd suggest building links in other areas to speed up the process. Ive found a nice Xrumer blast can get things moving again but proceed at your own risk.

[walterbayliss]

I have been sandboxed i feel for massive content. I put up over 5000 pages on a site, overnight... and google shows the pages as indexed, but they are not visible in the SERPS under any term.
Advice from my colleagues - only put up 300 - 400 pages at a time...
anything over that gets black flagged.
Any thoughts on this guys?

Cheers.
Walt

[Stan da Man]

Originally Posted by walterbayliss

I have been sandboxed i feel for massive content. I put up over 5000 pages on a site, overnight... and google shows the pages as indexed, but they are not visible in the SERPS under any term.
Advice from my colleagues - only put up 300 - 400 pages at a time...
anything over that gets black flagged.
Any thoughts on this guys?

Cheers.
Walt

I've never put up that much content at once. Was it original, or store pages with manufacturer descriptions? If it was all original, why did you put it up all at once?

How long has it been up? If it's been awhile you may want to begin hitting the homepage with links then deep linking (that will take awhile)

[Stan da Man]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Sorry to hear that, yea that'll happen. Don't sweat it it'll be back, it may take a few months though. If this happened in the last few days then wait it out because tons of sites have been dropped, it looks like Googles doing some work so it may not be anything other then Google tweaking for a few days.

If it happened more then a few days ago I'd suggest building links in other areas to speed up the process. Ive found a nice Xrumer blast can get things moving again but proceed at your own risk.

The site was a couple months old prior to the drop. It's been over a month since the drop. I was ranking in the top 100 for many key phrases (some hit page one.) I was at around 50 for the main search term and holding. I sent out the second run of the article and was climbing until - BAM - nothing showing in the top 1,000.

I've been building diverse backlinks from various sources (no more AMR for now.) The site will occasionally pop back to number 160+ for the main search term, then will disappear. It doesn't show in the top 1,000 for any of the other terms.

On a side note, I've had other sites that were ranking well. They were young and were killed by some spammy blog commenting that was done on them (paid program, not me.) I've managed to bring some back, but not to their former glory. It seems it's a lot easier to resuscitate a site that's at least a year old.

Thanks for the advice, and I definitely welcome more!

[danhoff]

Is your getting out of sandbox method still working ? How many sites you managed to get out ?

[Stan da Man]

UPDATE: It's taken awhile, but the site I mentioned is now showing on page 1 for the main keywords on some google datacenters (not all). It has been bouncing in and out of existence (top 1,000) for the past couple days.

I have not done any article link building since the last AMR run that (seemed) to tank the site. I have been building links through other methods. If anyone wants me to post further updates let me know.

[danhoff]

Originally Posted by Stan da Man

UPDATE: It's taken awhile, but the site I mentioned is now showing on page 1 for the main keywords on some google datacenters (not all). It has been bouncing in and out of existence (top 1,000) for the past couple days.

I have not done any article link building since the last AMR run that (seemed) to tank the site. I have been building links through other methods. If anyone wants me to post further updates let me know.

Yea bro, let us know

[36burrows]

I also have a site that tanked after a 10,000 xrumer blast, which I REALLY want back.

Please keep this thread updated, very useful!

[dagaul101]

Nice tip, Google wants us all to have unique content, and people linking to nthat content from a variety of sites be it web 2.0, blogs, or directories, the diversity is what gives Google the confidence that your site is legit

[StoneWilson]

Never been in sandbox so far, this way really works? How long will it take to climb out of the sandbox?

[dburk]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

I also have a site that tanked after a 10,000 xrumer blast, which I REALLY want back.

Please keep this thread updated, very useful!

Hi 36burrows,

Stop creating web spam and start creating meritorious backlinks.

And if you really believe xrumer blast tanked your site, just target your competitors with the exact same technique.

[danhoff]

dp40oz -> managed to get more sites out of sandbox ??

[BarryOnline]

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi 36burrows,

Stop creating web spam and start creating meritorious backlinks.

And if you really believe xrumer blast tanked your site, just target your competitors with the exact same technique.

Yeh, we should all get Xrumer & just blast all the competition off the first page

Any new competing sites in our niche we see creeping up the first page - hit them with xrumer & they're gone!

Or...

Use xrumer to build high quality links to your site

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi 36burrows,

Stop creating web spam and start creating meritorious backlinks.

And if you really believe xrumer blast tanked your site, just target your competitors with the exact same technique.

Who said I'm creating spam content?

And yes I've been creating high PR relevant backlinks since the site tanked, and YES the xrumer 20,000 link blast is what raised the red flag.

[dburk]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

Who said I'm creating spam content?

And yes I've been creating high PR relevant backlinks since the site tanked, and YES the xrumer 20,000 link blast is what raised the red flag.

Hi 36burrows,

I hope you are not implying that the PR, or relevancy of anchor text, are the determinate factors of web spam. I don't think that Google uses those as primary indicators of web spam.

It would be very difficult, indeed, to do a 20,000 link xrumer blast that wasn't massive web spamming. Are you claiming Google would see your xrumer blast as valuable content that their users would find useful when visiting? Are you inferring the your xrumer blast is creating massive amounts of meritorious links and not just web spam?

The point I'm trying to make is that the process of link building is content creation. And yes, generally speaking, xrumer blasts create massive amounts of web spam content. What makes a link meritorious isn't the PR of the page where it is place nor the relevancy of the anchor text. What makes it meritorious is that content, that is created with it, is useful and adds value to the users.

The whole point of generating backlinks is to expose your web pages to a larger audience. Doing massive backlink campaigns will bring more exposure quickly, and naturally with that increased exposure you should expect more scrutiny by both humans and bots that are looking for and devaluing web spam.

One of the drawbacks of massive link building is that your web spam can get you labeled as a spammer and may cause your valuable content contributions to be discarded along with the spam. There are services, like Askimet, that maintain a database of abusers and when you earn a spot on their blacklist you will see a wholesale removal of your content contributions, even the meritorious ones. The efforts of many months of meritorious link building can be harmed by a single web spam blast.

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by danhoff

dp40oz -> managed to get more sites out of sandbox ??

Hey yea im actually out right now i'll try to post screenshots later. Just remember evening out your link portfolio is really the key to getting out of the sandbox. Also the sandbox as far as I see is usually ranking in the 200-500's anything above that isn't really a sandbox its just a natural rank and anything below that is a harsher penalty. Not always but this has been my general observations.

[danhoff]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Hey yea im actually out right now i'll try to post screenshots later. Just remember evening out your link portfolio is really the key to getting out of the sandbox. Also the sandbox as far as I see is usually ranking in the 200-500's anything above that isn't really a sandbox its just a natural rank and anything below that is a harsher penalty. Not always but this has been my general observations.

If i blast my site with scrapebox,amr, senukex it will help ? Should i spread the blasts to few days, or i can blast in one day ?

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by danhoff

If i blast my site with scrapebox,amr, senukex it will help ? Should i spread the blasts to few days, or i can blast in one day ?

Definitely no Scrapebox. Scrapebox is the easiest way to sandbox your site. When it comes to blog comments you really need to be careful. Even just a few spammed comments linking to a newish site can get you sandboxed quickly. If you want to use scrapebox be very very careful. Senuke and AMR pointing Web 2.0's and articles can get things back out of the sandbox. Unique content works best. It doesn't have to be but unique content gets indexed better then PLR articles and what not.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by JayVance

Sandbox effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The link you are referring to actually says straight up that the "sandbox" is a controversial far from proven fact. I don't really care because whatever you call it there is something that happens.

However this is just all so pointless. Get some quality backlinks for goodness sake. I don't care what all the profilers will come in and say I DO NOT see this incessant bouncing around when I build quality links for my clients. Sure there is some moving around but not this roller coaster ride people go on because of the ballyhooed "blast".

Do you think any professional SEO could explain to a large company or corporation that they will just have to take the loss of revenue while their site cellars out at position 312 for the next 5 months?

Put some variety in your link profile. This blasting stuff is only good in weak serps and my challenge remains for anyone to show me a HIGH competition serp that is ranking just on these weak stuff. Even the term backlinks HAS NO ONE ranking even in the top 5 without employing better links.

Think about that Look it up and remember that backlink IS the serp that was used to start this whole blasting/profile stuff. If these guys are mixing it up and can't rank with profile blasts alone then

WHAT......MORE.......EVIDENCE......DO ......YOU .......NEED?


Build some quality with some on page PR links etc and forget all this sandbox roller coaster ride nonsense. how about not getting into the sandbox to begin with?

[Steven Miranda]

great post!

[Stan da Man]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Definitely no Scrapebox. Scrapebox is the easiest way to sandbox your site. When it comes to blog comments you really need to be careful. Even just a few spammed comments linking to a newish site can get you sandboxed quickly. If you want to use scrapebox be very very careful. Senuke and AMR pointing Web 2.0's and articles can get things back out of the sandbox. Unique content works best. It doesn't have to be but unique content gets indexed better then PLR articles and what not.

I fully agree with this. I have a site that was around 4 months old that was beginning to see HUGE traffic. I hired a guy to do a blog comment run (few thousand comments.) He used only a handful of blogs to generate a couple thousand comments. My site never fully recovered in google (never went down in Bing or Yahoo.) I guess those links were from bad neighborhoods, and there were a lot of them.

I've done some diverse link building on that site, but it still bounces in and out of the existence on google. Many of the inner pages will fluctuate, but not disappear. The homepage will be in the top 30 one day, then not in the top 1,000 the next. Ironically, the homepage now ranks in the top 40 for my non-main keywords, which are very competitive. Google will not let it rank for the main keyword which was the target of the comment blast. The site is an EMD for the keyword, and it is less competitive than the others, so I firmly believe that site is still under a penalty. The comment blast occurred back in mid November.

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by Stan da Man

I fully agree with this. I have a site that was around 4 months old that was beginning to see HUGE traffic. I hired a guy to do a blog comment run (few thousand comments.) He used only a handful of blogs to generate a couple thousand comments. My site never fully recovered in google (never went down in Bing or Yahoo.) I guess those links were from bad neighborhoods, and there were a lot of them.

I've done some diverse link building on that site, but it still bounces in and out of the existence on google. Many of the inner pages will fluctuate, but not disappear. The homepage will be in the top 30 one day, then not in the top 1,000 the next. Ironically, the homepage now ranks in the top 40 for my non-main keywords, which are very competitive. Google will not let it rank for the main keyword which was the target of the comment blast. The site is an EMD for the keyword, and it is less competitive than the others, so I firmly believe that site is still under a penalty. The comment blast occurred back in mid November.

Yep I had a page that had the same exact thing happen. I tried to do my techniques to get it out of the sandbox but no matter what I did Google would not respond. The keyword was easy to rank for but I totally scrapeboxed it to death and it just wasn't ranking in the top 300 for its keyword.

I have good news for you though these penalties are temporary and about 2-3 months later my site was back on the 1st page and it seemed like it had gotten all the link juice from those blog comments added to it as well. So although they hurt the site at first it ended up being better in the end. Stay strong, I promise you one morning you will wake up with your page right back up top for that keyword.

[richard78]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Yep I had a page that had the same exact thing happen. I tried to do my techniques to get it out of the sandbox but no matter what I did Google would not respond. The keyword was easy to rank for but I totally scrapeboxed it to death and it just wasn't ranking in the top 300 for its keyword.

I have good news for you though these penalties are temporary and about 2-3 months later my site was back on the 1st page and it seemed like it had gotten all the link juice from those blog comments added to it as well. So although they hurt the site at first it ended up being better in the end. Stay strong, I promise you one morning you will wake up with your page right back up top for that keyword.

Have done my best to get a page out of sandbox that was last seen 141 place on Google in late March. I've done almost everything. High PR blog comments, edu/gov links, pyramid links, wheel links, article submission, you name it, probably I've tried it, but it's not even in Top 1000.

The keyword is not high competitive and has an exact of 2,700 searches per month. The content is unique and checked with copyscape, there is no result. It's almost 3 months. How much longer I need to wait?

I'm giving up and going to hire a service in warrior for hire that can make it to page 1.

[Shakd]

Great Post! not that I have been sandboxed, but great! thanks

[kiddoman]

I have never been a sanbox! But it seems like your website do experience the up and down! Thanks for informative tips you guys show. Backlins seem to be good to Google!

[seohelp1971]

hi dp40oz i have a client site who are on sandbox right now, you do such services that could help a website out from the sandbox using your method? if so how much will you charge for it? thanks