Google KW Tool vs Wordtracker - Real count?

[harivney]

Hi,
I am a relatively newbie and have some questions about search counts.

When using Google KW tool to determine exact match for keyword "x" it shows 27K "exact searches" for the month.

When using Wordtrackers free tool, it shows 10 (X 30 days in month =300)

I know that Wordtracker gets their data from meta crawlers and extrapolates based on percentages (# of times KW appears in their db, total internet searches, etc).

I also suspect that Google's counts includes robot hits and may not be "real people" searches.

Assuming robots are causing a lot of the "search count", is there any logical explanation why Google would show 27K hits a month while wordtracker only shows 300?

The Google Traffic estimator shows that the KW "X" would get an estimated 18-25 hits a day in ad position 1-3. MSN adcenter also shows a very low number of searches.

So from my vantage point it seems the Google KW tool is pretty much useless.

Comments please.
thanks

[dburk]

Hi harivney,

I believe Google's Keyword tool uses actual real data while the WordTrackerTool extrapolates from panel estimates.

From my experience, I haven't seen the kind of disparity that you are reporting here. I'm sure that some of the searches are bots as you call them, Google refers to this as automated queries and they do not permit them without express permission in advance.

Google will block the IP address automatically if it appears to be automated. This should limit the possibility of seeing such a large variance.

Can you provide an example keyword where you are seeing this? I would like to research it to see what may be causing the huge variance you are seeing.

[harivney]

Don,
KW= tampa home mortgage

exact match
google keyword tool= 33,100/month

Earlier today on wordtracker I got a count of 10 - now I get none

wordtracker free KW suggetion tool= zero

Depending if exact, phrase, etc, Google traffic estimator shows 14-43 estimated clicks per day.

So it makes no sense to me that if there are 1100 searches a day (33000/30) that you would only get 14-43 clicks if ad was in position 1-3.

Unless of course I am missing something, I would have thought an ad in position 1-3 would get clicked more than at best 4%.(as I mentioned I am a newbie and my assumption that 4% is very low might just be totally wrong).

Regardless, its still a big mystery why wordtracker and MSN (adcenter) show virtually no searches (however - MSN does show that "tampa mortgage" had 15 searches last month.)

Assuming Google gets 80% of searches and MSN get 5%, there is a huge disparity between 33K searches for Google and none for MSN. And again, I have no clue why wordtracker shows zero for a KW that Google says averages 33K/month.

thanks,
Harivney
PS - I could not post the urls for google KW tool and freewordtracker tool becasue I have to do 15 posts before being able to include urls in posts.

[Magic Mel]

All of these tool are guesstimates, nothing is set in stone, even the clicks you can get a day via adwords are estimates.

[harivney]

If Google's tool is giving a "guesstimate" that is not close to reality, then it is useless.They must be inflating the numbers on purpose to mislead people because they surely know how may searches are done on their network.

So for me, it seems the only way to know if a KW is genuinely popular is to look at what it costs for adwords and what the estimated # of clicks would be for ad position 1-3. To be sure, you would have to run an adwords test campaign to see if the number of clicks matched their estimate.

[aleisterone]

I trust more wordtracker than google. Google makes big money form advertizing so it`s very convenient of them to inflate searches per month..Wordtracker makes money from tracking keywords.

[dburk]

Originally Posted by harivney

Don,
KW= tampa home mortgage

exact match
google keyword tool= 33,100/month

Earlier today on wordtracker I got a count of 10 - now I get none

wordtracker free KW suggetion tool= zero

Depending if exact, phrase, etc, Google traffic estimator shows 14-43 estimated clicks per day.

So it makes no sense to me that if there are 1100 searches a day (33000/30) that you would only get 14-43 clicks if ad was in position 1-3.

Unless of course I am missing something, I would have thought an ad in position 1-3 would get clicked more than at best 4%.(as I mentioned I am a newbie and my assumption that 4% is very low might just be totally wrong).

Regardless, its still a big mystery why wordtracker and MSN (adcenter) show virtually no searches (however - MSN does show that "tampa mortgage" had 15 searches last month.)

Assuming Google gets 80% of searches and MSN get 5%, there is a huge disparity between 33K searches for Google and none for MSN. And again, I have no clue why wordtracker shows zero for a KW that Google says averages 33K/month.

thanks,
Harivney
PS - I could not post the urls for google KW tool and freewordtracker tool because I have to do 15 posts before being able to include urls in posts.

Hi Harivney,

Actually the numbers your getting from Google seem reasonable. It's the Wordtracker results that appear to be way off.

And yes, 4% is probably close to what you might expect for a CTR. Traffic Estimator tends to run low on estimates for me. I usually double the results the Traffic Estimator tool gives me. Your actual results may be a bit closer (Your ad copy has a major impact on CTR, so each ad's results will vary).

I looked at that result page and it gives me 25 different links (counting the 4 ads), plus a map with 10 balloons. There are also 10 phone numbers displayed at the top of the page which will lower CTR, so getting 4% CTR may require some great ad copy.

[Solidsnake]

Google keyword tool has better accuracy because they have the system integrated to each search...

[dburk]

Originally Posted by aleisterone

I trust more wordtracker than google. Google makes big money form advertizing so it`s very convenient of them to inflate searches per month..Wordtracker makes money from tracking keywords.

Why would they do that?

If they inflated their numbers, it would take 5 minutes for anyone to see through that. No one would trust their tools, or Google for that matter. I think you are way underestimating the intelligence of the Google team.

I think it's safe to say that Google makes way more money than Wordtracker and tracking keywords is a primary function of what Google does, isn't it?

Wordtracker is good for what they do but that don't have access to Google's data, except in the same way you and I do. So, there's no way for them to approach Google's level of accuracy.

Wordtracker gives you estimates, Google gives you actual data.

[KirkMcD]

Someone did a post recently showing that Google's counts include the Search Partner Network and maybe Parked Domains too.
So Google's counts can be higher than expected.
Remember, Google's keyword tool is primarily aimed at their Adwords advertisers. If you are looking for keywords for article marketing, look somewhere else.

[Arine Mark]

All those are only estimates. For SEO, i use GKT for main keyword (2-3 words) and Wordtracker for long tail (4-6 words).
If you want exact value, do a small test using adwords. There's a trick to do this. Hint, adwords shows impression count. We don't pay based on impression but per click.

[JJOrana]

Hi Harivney.

You may want to read my short blog post that may enlighten you:

Keyword Tools Conspiracy Theory | Taknique

[harivney]

Jon,
Guess I don't feel like I wasted $7. I'll read it later. You might want to update your report and include kewywordcountry 5 (very new and still buggy - but should work someday and provide search counts for MSN and Yahoo in addition to google), SEMRush and Market Samurai (looks like these two use two use google KWs).

For me - the bottom line is to use common sense and compare google search counts to estimated clicks from adwords. For MSN, I think their counts are more realistic and I am in the process of discovering the type of user that uses MSN because some popular KWs get hardly no traffic on MSN yet others get a relatively high number. My instincts tell me that MSN counts are more real than google's counts.

Its good to be a newbie like me as I question everything I see. Someone I know told me that Wordtracker was what the pros use - but unless one is focusing on"long tails" I don't think its worth the subscription fee.

Time will tell.
Harivney

[thomasukm]

Originally Posted by JJOrana

Hi Harivney.

You may want to read my short blog post that may enlighten you:

Keyword Tools Conspiracy Theory | Taknique

Hi Jon,

It's an interesting point to make on the myth of "keyword tool", great share.

By the way, have you heard of "wordbutler"? What do you think of it?

Thomas

[freetraff]

Quote from WordTracker official page "All search terms are collected from the major metacrawlers - Dogpile and Metacrawler." (quote taken from About Wordtracker)

I would not bet a single dollar that trends in Dogpile and Metacrawler and Google coincide (no matter how many times you multiply them), because different search engines have different searches. Even when we compare Google and Yahoo (and these have dozens of millions of searches and statistically the trends should be the same) - their trends do not coincide.

And now bad news for all Google AdWords believers - I used to be in the first rows of trusting this tool by the way. Since this summer I got lots of sites (my own and my clients) to the 1st page in Google and this is when I started to see that the promised by Google AdWords official keyword research demand is far from reality. That was checked in dozens of different niches.

And this is when I decided to compare what OTHER people see, in other countries. And I was shocked to find out this - (check my post on WebProWorld - very famous webmaster and SEO forum Either Google search demand is a fake, or explain... - WebProWorld)

Just check the screenshots provided in the quoted forum post and then ask yourself a question - how the heck is that possible?

Bottom line: at the moment I think that neither WordTracker nor Google tool are even close to showing adequate numbers that planet Earth is doing. For me this is a tragedy, because getting page 1 in Google is no longer a problem for me, but now I do not know what keywords to target, because all these tools are very, very unsatisfactory for me.

[freetraff]

JJOrana, thanks for sharing great info. I am glad to see I am not alone who puts attention to the inadequacy of these tools.

I made a comment to that post about this Google keyword tool experience that I mentioned in my reply above. After it is approved by the moderator I am really hoping that more and more people will open their eyes on the problem.

[dburk]

Originally Posted by freetraff

Quote from WordTracker official page "All search terms are collected from the major metacrawlers - Dogpile and Metacrawler." (quote taken from About Wordtracker)

I would not bet a single dollar that trends in Dogpile and Metacrawler and Google coincide (no matter how many times you multiply them), because different search engines have different searches. Even when we compare Google and Yahoo (and these have dozens of millions of searches and statistically the trends should be the same) - their trends do not coincide.

And now bad news for all Google AdWords believers - I used to be in the first rows of trusting this tool by the way. Since this summer I got lots of sites (my own and my clients) to the 1st page in Google and this is when I started to see that the promised by Google AdWords official keyword research demand is far from reality. That was checked in dozens of different niches.

And this is when I decided to compare what OTHER people see, in other countries. And I was shocked to find out this - (check my post on WebProWorld - very famous webmaster and SEO forum Either Google search demand is a fake, or explain... - WebProWorld)

Just check the screenshots provided in the quoted forum post and then ask yourself a question - how the heck is that possible?

Bottom line: at the moment I think that neither WordTracker nor Google tool are even close to showing adequate numbers that planet Earth is doing. For me this is a tragedy, because getting page 1 in Google is no longer a problem for me, but now I do not know what keywords to target, because all these tools are very, very unsatisfactory for me.

Hi freetraff,

Sorry, but I have to say I disagree with you claims and I will explain exactly how you have been deceived.

First, let me say that the person that has deceived you probably did it unintentionally. It's likely just a simply case of user error.

When looking at the screen shot posted in that other forum you will notice that the numbers match up with the exact results you see when you search for "English - United States". If you then select "All Countries and Territories" without clicking the "Get Keyword Ideas" button, you will have the exact screen shot that you are questioning.

This is likely a simple case of user error and not a problem with the AdWords Keyword Tool. I suggest that you post this information on that other forum before yet another conspiracy theory product is produced based on erroneous information.

[freetraff]

Originally Posted by dburk

Hi freetraff,

Sorry, but I have to say I disagree with you claims and I will explain exactly how you have been deceived.

First, let me say that the person that has deceived you probably did it unintentionally. It's likely just a simply case of user error.

When looking at the screen shot posted in that other forum you will notice that the numbers match up with the exact results you see when you search for "English - United States". If you then select "All Countries and Territories" without clicking the "Get Keyword Ideas" button, you will have the exact screen shot that you are questioning.

This is likely a simple case of user error and not a problem with the AdWords Keyword Tool. I suggest that you post this information on that other forum before yet another conspiracy theory product is produced based on erroneous information.

That's a possibility, indeed it is. I will contact her and surely ask her if she could possibly do that.

Meanwhile can you please say what search do you have for:
0 car finance
English
All Countries and Territories
Exact Match

This will help me to make sure this is correct.

[JJOrana]

Originally Posted by harivney

For me - the bottom line is to use common sense

Thinking is hard to many, that's why that "common sense" is underutilized. They'd rather pay than to think.

thomasukm,

I heard of it but I didn't get a chance to use it. After I made a big mistake in using these tools in 2006, I just quit on using other tools other than Google Adwords Keyword Tool.

For a basic keyword research, you don't need to pay or subscribe to any tools.

[Bigsofty]

I'm trying to get to grips with Keyword elite at present. There's vids available but my net connection isn't fast enough to stream them and you can't download, so am not entirely sure what I'm doing with the thing at present.

Like any tool, some if it comes down to how you use it. However I've already noticed this thing has the "option" of using paid services, which rather destroys the point of buying the thing.

I much, much, prefer to buy software tools than services or ebooks, though so far everything I've purchased recently, ebooks, paid forums and software, has been disappointing to say the least.


B.

[MemberWing]

I wouldn't use any other third party source for keyword data, but actual search engine.
Besides, keyword info from google could be sliced and diced via their "trends" tool and "insight" tool. Very useful. And free.
Add here Yahoo suggest (search.yahoo.com) and you got yourself with lovely research data free of charge.

Metacrawlers? Dogpile? How many real people uses dogpile vs. google to consider it a reliable source at all?

Gleb

[thomasukm]

Originally Posted by JJOrana

Thinking is hard to many, that's why that "common sense" is underutilized. They'd rather pay than to think.

thomasukm,

I heard of it but I didn't get a chance to use it. After I made a big mistake in using these tools in 2006, I just quit on using other tools other than Google Adwords Keyword Tool.

For a basic keyword research, you don't need to pay or subscribe to any tools.

Hi Jon,

Great insights, what are those big mistakes that you have make in 2006? I thought it's good to know (if you can share with us), so that we can learnt from your experience.

Thomas

[seye]

there are some niches that attract webmaster , you know wvery body wants to know the count in the make money online ,finance niche because of the money involved .. they do this research to target there nich.

i find that google estimate is some how accurate than that of wordtracker

[Jeremy123]

this thread just died out of nowhere

is there a yahoo keyword tool, if so where is it

[SiteBlaster]

Google by far is the absolute best. The others are only good for ideas. But that is my opinion.

[Jenie0109]

well Keyword Tool powered by Google is i believe works effectively more... And besides.. it comes from Google.. Obviously they are giving much more accurate data than others

[dburk]

Originally Posted by Jeremy123

this thread just died out of nowhere

is there a yahoo keyword tool, if so where is it

Yahoo had one of the earliest free keyword tools (via Overture acquisition), unfortunately they dropped support for that tool a couple of years ago.

[JJOrana]

Originally Posted by Jeremy123

this thread just died out of nowhere

is there a yahoo keyword tool, if so where is it

They don't have a tool but using a manual research using their "yahoo.com" website, you'll discover hidden keywords that are not immediate available from Google adwords.

[rath]

Originally Posted by harivney

Hi,


When using Google KW tool to determine exact match for keyword "x" it shows 27K "exact searches" for the month.

The Google Traffic estimator shows that the KW "X" would get an estimated 18-25 hits a day in ad position 1-3. MSN adcenter also shows a very low number of searches.

So from my vantage point it seems the Google KW tool is pretty much useless.

Comments please.
thanks

The google KW external is based on estimates and my past experience tells me that estimates are almost always way off than the actuals across niches. The best way to arrive at correct data to bank on is to actually create an Adwords campaign and check the results. Yes...it will cost a few bucks up-front but it will help you in finding a lot of numbers if you combine adwords and analytics and this can go a long way in defining your future plan of action.

The google keyword tool may not be reliable in estimating the absolute traffic but IMHO, this is probably the best free tool to get "relative" counts based on your seed keys and can be the base for creating your Adwords campaigns which in turn can help you in your organic optimization.

Best ;-)

Jay

[Steven Carl Kelly]

Originally Posted by rath

The best way to arrive at correct data to bank on is to actually create an Adwords campaign and check the results. Yes...it will cost a few bucks up-front but it will help you in finding a lot of numbers if you combine adwords and analytics and this can go a long way in defining your future plan of action.

Or apply my GTEF and get a more workable number without spending a dime.