To all SEO experts here at the WF...

[paulgl]

Let's see if this post gets any attention or is just ignored.

I find it quite amusing that lately there have more than a few
so-called SEO experts, with paying clients, coming here to
the WF seeking a solution or advice on what are basic SEO
questions. Or things that should not be that hard.

Makes me wonder how these people get paid clients.

Seems like sort of a rip off if they are coming to the WF
and getting free advice. Then making out like some
high and mighty SEO expert to their paying clients.

"I have a client who I am SEOing a website for, and..
_________________
(fill in the blank): I can't, I don't, I'm confused,....

Rarely do the resident (paid) WF SEO experts ever answer
these questions. Maybe they hate giving out free advice.
Maybe they just ignore the wannabes and hope they fail.

People, if you can't SEO a website as an expert, don't
take clients. You are doing them a disservice and giving
the SEO profession a bad name. That's bad for all of
you. Notice I said "you" and not me. I'm no resident paid
SEO expert. Nor do I claim to be.

But when little ol' me knows the answers to ridiculous
questions, then there is something wrong with those who
take clients, do SEO, and ask ridiculous questions.

Now I am not talking about every question asked by these
people. It just seems 75% of them have no clue.

"So I have a client who I am SEOing a website for and I need..."

No. What you need is to stop taking clients.

It's a shame really. People who need SEO for their sites, and
are willing to pay for it, should skip the middle man and come
right here and hire someone with a rep.

I wonder if the paid resident SEO experts here go incognito to
other forums for advice.

Paul

[camthomas]

Lol yh i have seem a few of them post.

When you say the SEO experts ignor them i hope they don't ignor us newbies asking for advice :-) lol

You say your not an SEO expert, you sound like it i have seen a few great post from with with great advice, it has helped me quite abit.

Cam

[yukon]

I've never seen this happen.

my website is listed on google, but not for the title tag keyword, why!!

Maybe I'll start selling seo sevices?

[Rollmodl]

This tactic only hurts the rest of us. It's no wonder why some companies are hesitant to hire legitimate services after they have been burned.

[Derek S]

Before getting local clients I ranked my own local sites. Before taking international clients, I ranked my own sites for broad/competitive keywords internationally... If I had any questions and needed help, it was for ranking my own sites. If I didn't have my own sites ranked so highly I would have never signed the clients I have today...

Making me wonder how some of these people even signed the client to start with... did they not have to show any proof or a portfolio before pen hit paper on a contract?

My guess is that most of these people here who all ask the basic questions cannot possibly be making very much money to begin with or wont be making money much longer in the future.

The issue with us, If you would agree is the signatures boasting "SEO Expert" and yet they come on here and blow their cover asking stupid basic questions. Its like having signatures saying "watch how I make $500 a day" and going into the main forum with a thread about "help nothing I do makes money"

Don't think our issue can be the fact they have clients, because for all we know their client completely understands the caliber of SEO guy they are hiring. Not fair for us to just assume their client is clueless after all.

All we can personally do is let it go or make the choice to help them, help their client. Take note of who they are and take everything they say in the future with a grain of salt.

[Rollmodl]

Originally Posted by Derek S

Before getting local clients I ranked my own local sites. Before taking international clients, I ranked my own sites for broad/competitive keywords internationally... If I had any questions and needed help, it was for ranking my own sites. If I didn't have my own sites ranked so highly I would have never signed the clients I have today...

Man after my own heart. Proof is by doing, not by saying. If your own site isn't ranked then how can you convince clients?

[kmmr12]

thanks for being real about thi subject

[paulgl]

Originally Posted by Derek S

Don't think our issue can be the fact they have clients, because for all we know their client completely understands the caliber of SEO guy they are hiring. Not fair for us to just assume their client is clueless after all.

Point taken. There are some threads, however...

Paul

[Dmreed4311]

You will see me asking plenty of questions that seem simple because I'am a newby trying to rank my own website. This website is a blessing, I have learned so much. I have been burned by a couple seo guys promising the world and not delivering. This is why Iam here, to learn and do it myself.

[MikeFriedman]

I do not really blame these people at all. I blame the people hyping WSO's here and other places telling people how easy it is to make thousands of dollars a month in the offline marketing niche.

I have seen a few that say something along the lines of "You do not need any experience marketing online..."

That's where the real problem is. These people go out all gung ho, get a few clients, and then realize the material they were sold was crap and really doesn't explain to them how to market a local business online.

Now they are stuck in an awkward position with a business owner, whom they marketed themselves to as a marketing guru (because page 37 of their offline training manual told them to "act as if..."), that is pissed off because they are not delivering what they promised.

Now, having said that, there are some people sharing some really good information on the topic and really giving people the tools to succeed. There are many who are not.

I actually feel bad for these people and try to help when them when I can. I can only imagine how bad these people are probably feeling that they are unable to deliver any kind of results to the business. I believe they had the right intentions and never meant to do any harm. It's just not always that easy to get the results you are looking for online. Especially, if you have never done it before.

[yukon]

Reading a $7 pdf ebook doesn't qualify anyone for selling seo services.

People are responsible for their own actions & expected to show a small amount of common sense. I realize common sense isn't all that common.

Still the newb/gurus should practice on their own sites before taking on work that they can't deliver.

Example, the link I posted above, the guy is selling a "Guaranteed Top 10 Ranking" in Google SERP. Nobody can deliver that kind of BS!

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I do not really blame these people at all. I blame the people hyping WSO's here and other places telling people how easy it is to make thousands of dollars a month in the offline marketing niche.

I have seen a few that say something along the lines of "You do not need any experience marketing online..."

That's where the real problem is. These people go out all gung ho, get a few clients, and then realize the material they were sold was crap and really doesn't explain to them how to market a local business online.

Now they are stuck in an awkward position with a business owner, whom they marketed themselves to as a marketing guru (because page 37 of their offline training manual told them to "act as if..."), that is pissed off because they are not delivering what they promised.

Now, having said that, there are some people sharing some really good information on the topic and really giving people the tools to succeed. There are many who are not.

I actually feel bad for these people and try to help when them when I can. I can only imagine how bad these people are probably feeling that they are unable to deliver any kind of results to the business. I believe they had the right intentions and never meant to do any harm. It's just not always that easy to get the results you are looking for online. Especially, if you have never done it before.

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by yukon

Reading a $7 pdf ebook doesn't qualify anyone for selling seo services.

People are responsible for their own actions & expected to show a small amount of common sense. I realize common sense isn't all that common.

Still the newb/gurus should practice on their own sites before taking on work that they can't deliver.

Example, the link I posted above, the guy is selling a "Guaranteed Top 10 Ranking" in Google SERP. Nobody can deliver that kind of BS!

In principle, yes I agree with you.

You are right, some blame falls onto the buyer as well. There's enough blame to go around.

In their defense though, how many offline marketing WSO's go up that are immediately followed by 75 reviews of people saying how great it is. This despite the fact that the WSO has only been alive for an hour and there's no way anyone could have put the information to use.

Again though, the buyer should notice this as well. I'm a cynic at heart, so I see through a lot of this stuff. Some people though just want to believe so much that they don't listen to their head pointing to all the warning signs. It's an emotional buy for them.

[Fraggler]

Originally Posted by paulgl

It's a shame really. People who need SEO for their sites, and
are willing to pay for it, should skip the middle man and come
right here and hire someone with a rep.

Paul, I'm not sure what exposure you have to offline web design/developers but I do have some mates in the industry and they are the root of a lot of the problems. (In no way am I saying all of these companies are like this but there are enough to cause a problem).

Every man and his dog offers SEO as part of their web package because it is a buzz word that a lot of clients know of but not about. It becomes the blind leading the blind being lead by great salesmen.

These are the same people who offer AdWords to their clients flushing their money down the dunny.

It is very simple to customise a template, hook up a hosting account, and sell the world to mum and dad businesses who know they should be on the web and the importance of Google but not enough to protect themselves. It is one of the most popular 'make money online' business models I have come across.

They usually have some super cool name like Offline Nuclear Meltdown and have everything written down so they get the web site sale and then upsell with a auto generated SEO report; you know the ones, they list how many times you need to mention keyword in bold, italics, h1, h2, h3,...h9, what colour text, what size to make the images, and whether to end the sentence with a period, question mark, or exclamation. You know, the quality reports.

Where else would these guys go if their client actually wanted to see results?

I'd love to hear from some guys doing enterprise level SEO to learn more about proper site structure to painless grow large sites while I play in my own sandbox.

I'd also like to know how the pros here sell the idea to their client that they will spa...I mean create...1000's of profiles to build links to their sites. Seriously though, how do they talk about the risks of buying links on behalf of a client when there is some risk of a Google penalty. Do they just say that it doesn't happen? Do they even buy links or is that the second rule of Fight Club?

Paul, you might not see yourself as an expert but I do at least learn from your posts.

[Fraggler]

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

That's where the real problem is. These people go out all gung ho, get a few clients, and then realize the material they were sold was crap and really doesn't explain to them how to market a local business online.

Now they are stuck in an awkward position with a business owner, whom they marketed themselves to as a marketing guru (because page 37 of their offline training manual told them to "act as if..."), that is pissed off because they are not delivering what they promised.

You posted while I was writing, Mike. This is a huge part of the problem but it is not just people from the online world. Web Development companies have been doing this for years.

[Fraggler]

Originally Posted by yukon

Example, the link I posted above, the guy is selling a "Guaranteed Top 10 Ranking" in Google SERP. Nobody can deliver that kind of BS!

Not in the organic results, but there are companies out there (not just individuals) who spruik this and end up getting green small business owners to sit at the top of Google for a keyword that never gets searched for a large chunk of money each month.

A lot of people here now know more than a lot of what other people have been offering for years so it now becomes more apparent to us.