High PR rivals with poor on page SEO

[arshavin]

Lets say i want to create a micro niche site. The top ten of google looks hard to compete against. There could be a number of PR 4's and lower. Maybe even 1 PR 5.

But traffic travis is saying that there on page SEO sucks. Could i take these on if my onpage was spot on? Or would it be impossible because my site would be a micro niche site which means they'd have much more content than me??? I'd have a EMD also which must count for something.

I plan on using many methods to gain backlinks. I think i have a good plan of action ready to follow.

[dadamson]

There are SO many factors at play here.

But from what you have given us, yes these guys are easy to beat.

I am assuming they aren't even targeting your keyword if their onpage SEO sucks (do some research on each individual site to find out).

Often popular pages will appear on many keyword searches without really trying, it only takes a highly targeted site to beat them out if their onpage and offpage SEO is good.

[peterparker018]

I think good on page gives you the best result than others.

[arshavin]

I have looked on the sites and they have some of the intended keywords showing. Whats the tag called at the very top left hand side of a webpage? Well the keyword is showing there. But there isnt much text onpage just lots of links.

Traffic travis, is saying there is no, Title, Desc, H1 Tag. Thats what made me say there onpage seo sucks.

These sites id be going up against are aged, established domains. But id have a EMD and better onpage seo than them.

[dadamson]

Ok if the title, h1, AND description aren't showing it's a pretty safe bet that they aren't even optimizing for that keyword so it should be easy to take over them and take your slice of the pie.

[freeflyer]

PR5's and 4's are massively difficult to get past. Why? Not because of the PR, but because of the quality links it took to generate that PR. A small site with good onsite wont be enough to get past them. On the other hand, a LARGE and well structured site with good onsite may be.

This is all about authority, relational pages, and content. Your micro site simply wont have enough content to portay the overall theme... even with good onsite SEO for a handful of pages.
Couple your onsite with plenty of good related content, a nice bunch of natural links, and you should do fine.

But remember, like everyone else, google hates microsites

[arshavin]

Originally Posted by dadamson

Ok if the title, h1, AND description aren't showing it's a pretty safe bet that they aren't even optimizing for that keyword so it should be easy to take over them and take your slice of the pie.

Thanks for the replies and that was the answer i was looking for .

Please if anyone doesnt agree with this tell me before i waste money registering domains haha

[freeflyer]

as my above post.. H1's and descriptions wont do it. Its nowhere near enough.

[arshavin]

Only just noticed your reply freeflyer. Can others please give there opinions?

[dadamson]

Originally Posted by freeflyer

PR5's and 4's are massively difficult to get past. Why? Not because of the PR, but because of the quality links it took to generate that PR. A small site with good onsite wont be enough to get past them. On the other hand, a LARGE and well structured site with good onsite may be.

This is all about authority, relational pages, and content. Your micro site simply wont have enough content to portay the overall theme... even with good onsite SEO for a handful of pages.
Couple your onsite with plenty of good related content, a nice bunch of natural links, and you should do fine.

But remember, like everyone else, google hates microsites

PR 4s and 5s are hard to get past if you are trying to outrank them for THEIR search terms.

These sites often appear for hundreds of keywords related to the keywords they are targeting and their content, backlinks, etc.

When a PR5 page is targeting and ranking for "brown coffee mugs" and all their backlinks, content, meta tags etc are targeting "brown coffee mugs" but they also appear in number 1 spot for "brown teacups" because there is low competition on that keyword it doesn't mean anything.

If a decent site with good onpage SEO is targeting "brown teacups" specifically it has a good chance of outranking the higher PR site due to the relevance factor.

[freeflyer]

his competitor PR4 sites would be for keyterms he would also be targeting.. otherwise they wouldnt be competitors and this thread wouldnt exist.

When a PR5 page is targeting and ranking for "brown coffee mugs" and all their backlinks, content, meta tags etc are targeting "brown coffee mugs" but they also appear in number 1 spot for "brown teacups" because there is low competition on that keyword it doesn't mean anything.

i'm sorry thats utter twoddle.. unless teacups is being semantically matched to coffee mugs, then the two terms wont be related. And, even if they are semantically matched, then the efficiency and relevance of the match is drastically reduced.

[dadamson]

Originally Posted by freeflyer

his competitor PR4 sites would be for keyterms he would also be targeting.. otherwise they wouldnt be competitors and this thread wouldnt exist.

Have you not seen PR4 sites appearing for similar keywords to what they are trying to rank for?

Authority/High PR sites often rank for a whole array of similar terms, it doesn't mean they are actively targeting those specific keywords.

As a webmaster, you would often see traffic from keywords that you don't see coming, this happens more when you have PR4+ pages.

As much as we would like Google and the other big search engines to act as predictable as you are suggesting, they simply do not.

Originally Posted by freeflyer

i'm sorry thats utter twoddle.. unless teacups is being semantically matched to coffee mugs, then the two terms wont be related. And, even if they are semantically matched, then the efficiency and relevance of the match is drastically reduced.

Ok so coffee mugs and teacups might be a bad example.. but you get what I'm saying right?

High PR websites DO appear for keywords that they aren't actively targeting due to lower competition levels.

It doesn't take that much for a smaller or lower PR website to outrank them for this if their site is strongly aimed towards the said KW.

Hope this makes sense.

[Peter Mai]

Hey Arshavin,

Micro niche sites are my favourite

If TT is showing up as 4 stars and the competitors sites suck with on page then you have a good chance.

- Get a domain with your keyword in it, exact match if possible, if not then add a number or letter at the end.

- check allintitle: "keyword" and allinurl: "keyword", if they are 10k and under then very easy, if 20k and under then quite easy but a little more effort
- if around 50k then requires even more SEO dedication and time, etc

From what i can tell, and from experience i'm pretty sure you can get onto page 1. All that it boils down to now is how well you optimize your site, your content, your backlink building strategy, and time!

You can do it!

Remember that SEO is not a one off thing as well, so when you hit that position you are happy with you need to still continue with SEO every now and then to maintain your rankings.

Hope that helps,
Peter

[arshavin]

Originally Posted by mrpmz

Hey Arshavin,

Micro niche sites are my favourite

If TT is showing up as 4 stars and the competitors sites suck with on page then you have a good chance.

- Get a domain with your keyword in it, exact match if possible, if not then add a number or letter at the end.

- check allintitle: "keyword" and allinurl: "keyword", if they are 10k and under then very easy, if 20k and under then quite easy but a little more effort
- if around 50k then requires even more SEO dedication and time, etc

From what i can tell, and from experience i'm pretty sure you can get onto page 1. All that it boils down to now is how well you optimize your site, your content, your backlink building strategy, and time!

You can do it!

Remember that SEO is not a one off thing as well, so when you hit that position you are happy with you need to still continue with SEO every now and then to maintain your rankings.

Hope that helps,
Peter

Some of these in allinurl are like hundreds of thousands. This can still be done right it just takes more time? I find that finding keywords with less than 50k is pretty hard.

[freeflyer]

Originally Posted by dadamson

High PR websites DO appear for keywords that they aren't actively targeting due to lower competition levels..

They do indeed, but only if they are matched semantically or they contain marginal references to the search term. However, were getting off the point in that the OP asked about high PR competing sites and could he get past them using onsite.. to which the answer is no. Another way of asking the question is 'is onsite good enough to beat all other competing sites', which of course the answer is no.

Adding semantics is perhaps confusing the issue and taking it down a much broader route.

[arshavin]

Originally Posted by freeflyer

They do indeed, but only if they are matched semantically or they contain marginal references to the search term. However, were getting off the point in that the OP asked about high PR competing sites and could he get past them using onsite.. to which the answer is no. Another way of asking the question is 'is onsite good enough to beat all other competing sites', which of course the answer is no.

Adding semantics is perhaps confusing the issue and taking it down a much broader route.

I didnt mean by just using onpage seo. I would also be backlinking.

[dadamson]

Originally Posted by freeflyer

They do indeed, but only if they are matched semantically or they contain marginal references to the search term. However, were getting off the point in that the OP asked about high PR competing sites and could he get past them using onsite.. to which the answer is no. Another way of asking the question is 'is onsite good enough to beat all other competing sites', which of course the answer is no.

Well the OP is talking about outranking high PR sites that are ranking for his keywords without optimized title, h1, and meta tags, meaning they are NOT in direct competition with his KWs (you will need to read his other posts further down the page).

Originally Posted by freeflyer

Adding semantics is perhaps confusing the issue and taking it down a much broader route.

Semantics are not confusing the issue at all, the fact that the website is on the same topic identifies that the semantics are the same between the OPs site and the high PR sites.

Basically if they are in the same niche, there is a very good chance of ranking for the same keywords, whether on purpose or not.

Have you never seen this happen?

[NickWatson]

Speaking from experience, I must say im with Dadamson on this one.
In fact when I do my keyword research, I look at the top 10 pages for the keyword i want to target, and if they are PR4 and lower, not directly targeting my keyword as mentioned by dadamson above, I go for it! Obviously there are other factors to consider too...

With a well optimized site, with good unique content and a solid backlinking campaign...you will outrank these guys within a month!