My page ranks #2 on Google, however...

Bulldozer · 08-11-2011, 10:07 AM

Hi, I have a page that is SEO optimized for a keyword.
The keyword is actually two words, let's say that it's red tomatoes.
My on page SEO is as perfect as it can get (at least according to the general SEO "rules").

I submitted my page to Google and gave it several days to get well indexed in Big G and the other search engines.

Then I did a bunch of Google searches to see how my page does for the keyword red tomatoes.
Doing that, I used different browsers and did the searches from different locations, (i.e. - from different IPs).

The results:

When I type in "red tomatoes" (as an exact phrase, in quotes), I rank at #2 on Google.
Cool, huh?

However, if I type in red tomatoes (without the quotes), my page is not even in the Top 100.

I thought that when your keyword is ranking well as a phrase (in quotes), it should rank equally as well when it's without the quotes. Because after all, it's the same combination of words, aligned in the same order, and Google should look for it the same way no matter if this word combo is being searched for with or without the quotes.

However, results show that this is not the case.

I have my own theory why this happens but I want to hear what other people who have more SEO experience than me have to say about it.

So, what is your take on this?
Why do you think my page gets ranked #2 for the keyword as a phrase but at the same does not get ranked at all as a regular combo of words?

JamesGw · 08-11-2011, 11:03 AM

Have you checked that webhistory is off?

Bulldozer · 08-11-2011, 11:11 AM

^ Webhistory?
You mean the web history in my Google account?
Yes, it is off and empty.

Plus I did the test searches from many different browsers, on many different PCs, located at many different places (my office, my friend's office, a public Internet cafeteria, my mom's laptop at her place).
All of those browsers were not even logged in Google and did not have Google accounts.

Still, the results were the same - my keyword only ranks as a phrase.

abhibh · 08-11-2011, 11:37 AM

Do you have EXACT keyword domain ?

Bulldozer · 08-11-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abhibh

Do you have EXACT keyword domain ?

My site's domain name has nothing to do with the keyword, so I guess not.

I am optimizing a WordPress post/page and yes, the slug of that post (which I guess counts as a part of the URL) does heve the two key words in it.

JSProjects · 08-11-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

I thought that when your keyword is ranking well as a phrase (in quotes), it should rank equally as well when it's without the quotes. Because after all, it's the same combination of words, aligned in the same order, and Google should look for it the same way no matter if this word combo is being searched for with or without the quotes.

This hasn't been true in my own experience. You'll find that in a lot of instances, new sites will rank well for the keywords you're targeting in quotes. But without quotes? Not so much.

Though I think it shows that your on-page SEO is good. Now you need to start throwing some backlinks at it.

Homer Lasa Hood · 08-11-2011, 12:11 PM

When you are searching with quotes, you are actually searching for the real competition for that keyword.. And searching without keywords shows your real ranking on SERPs with the keyword you are using.

Plus, the keyword "red tomatoes" is not two words but considered as one keyword phrase. (Just need to correct what you are saying) You have to build stronger backlinks to your website to rank well on Google, as well as try to make a supporting blog for it.

Bulldozer · 08-11-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSProjects

This hasn't been true in my own experience. You'll find that in a lot of instances, new sites will rank well for the keywords you're targeting in quotes. But without quotes? Not so much.

Though I think it shows that your on-page SEO is good. Now you need to start throwing some backlinks at it.

Yeah, I'm just trying to figure it out.

My own theory is that I am ranking #2 for the keyword itself (this is why I'm #2 when I search for it as an exact phrase).

Problem is that Google does NOT rank pages based on keywords only.
Keywords are just one of the many factors that contribute for your Google ranking. And probably not the most important one of them all!

You can optimize your page for a keyword all you want - this will not get you anywhere, unless, you have the other SEO factors working in your favor too.

So, even though my on page SEO is excellent and my keyword ranks great as an exact phrase in quotes, my positioning in Google for the keyword without quotes is not good, because the other SEO factors are missing.
For example: I only have 10 back links to that page.

Again, this is just MY THEORY and I am a SEO newbie, not a SEO expert.

So keep posting your opinions, folks.
I'd appreciate advise from people who are actual SEO experts.

-

Barry Unruh · 08-12-2011, 11:00 AM

You are missing a very important element here. In one search you are competing against 1,520,000 websites, in the other search it is 44,000,000 websites.

While you may want to say "it is the backlinks", it is not just the backlinks to those 1,520,000 sites, but may be the backlinks to some of those 44,000,000 websites which have been heavily backlinked, have high PR, massive link diversity, a high domain age, are listed on Yahoo and DMOZ, have high PR backlinks, have .EDU and .GOV backlinks...and the list continues. While their site may not be heavily optimized for "red tomatoes" their backlinks may...

danr62 · 08-12-2011, 11:13 AM

Searching in quotes is rarely an accurate picture of where you will rank without the quotes.

The only thing searching in quotes will do is give you a slightly better idea of how many pages are targeting your keyphrase.

Sure, if you rank #1 for your term with quotes, it should in theory be easier to rank without the quotes, but there are also so many off page factors to consider that it will only give you a general idea.

Here's another search you can do that will tell you more about who's actively targeting your keyword phrase

"keyword" intitle:"keyword" inurl:"keyword" inanchor:"keyword"

You can also remove the quotes from the above to go a bit broader.

However, this again is a general indicator that is only a bit more accurate than just using quotes. To really see the competition, check the backlinks, PR, domain age, and other factors of your competition.

I like to use Market Samurai for this.

08-11-2011, 11:03 AM	#2
JamesGw Senior Warrior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,337 Thanks: 73 Thanked 132 Times in 121 Posts	Re: My page ranks #2 on Google, however... Have you checked that webhistory is off?
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08-11-2011, 11:11 AM	#3
Bulldozer HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 305 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: My page ranks #2 on Google, however... ^ Webhistory? You mean the web history in my Google account? Yes, it is off and empty. Plus I did the test searches from many different browsers, on many different PCs, located at many different places (my office, my friend's office, a public Internet cafeteria, my mom's laptop at her place). All of those browsers were not even logged in Google and did not have Google accounts. Still, the results were the same - my keyword only ranks as a phrase.

08-11-2011, 11:37 AM	#4
abhibh Active Warrior Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 58 Thanks: 4 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: My page ranks #2 on Google, however... Do you have EXACT keyword domain ?

08-11-2011, 12:11 PM	#7
Homer Lasa Hood Just A Simple Avid Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: My page ranks #2 on Google, however... When you are searching with quotes, you are actually searching for the real competition for that keyword.. And searching without keywords shows your real ranking on SERPs with the keyword you are using. Plus, the keyword "red tomatoes" is not two words but considered as one keyword phrase. (Just need to correct what you are saying) You have to build stronger backlinks to your website to rank well on Google, as well as try to make a supporting blog for it.
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08-12-2011, 11:00 AM	#9
Barry Unruh Loving The Philippines War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pampanga, Philippines Posts: 1,737 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 478 Thanked 668 Times in 475 Posts Contact Info	Re: My page ranks #2 on Google, however... You are missing a very important element here. In one search you are competing against 1,520,000 websites, in the other search it is 44,000,000 websites. While you may want to say "it is the backlinks", it is not just the backlinks to those 1,520,000 sites, but may be the backlinks to some of those 44,000,000 websites which have been heavily backlinked, have high PR, massive link diversity, a high domain age, are listed on Yahoo and DMOZ, have high PR backlinks, have .EDU and .GOV backlinks...and the list continues. While their site may not be heavily optimized for "red tomatoes" their backlinks may...
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08-11-2011, 10:07 AM	#1
Bulldozer HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 305 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My page ranks #2 on Google, however... Hi, I have a page that is SEO optimized for a keyword. The keyword is actually two words, let's say that it's red tomatoes. My on page SEO is as perfect as it can get (at least according to the general SEO "rules"). I submitted my page to Google and gave it several days to get well indexed in Big G and the other search engines. Then I did a bunch of Google searches to see how my page does for the keyword red tomatoes. Doing that, I used different browsers and did the searches from different locations, (i.e. - from different IPs). The results: When I type in "red tomatoes" (as an exact phrase, in quotes), I rank at #2 on Google. Cool, huh? However, if I type in red tomatoes (without the quotes), my page is not even in the Top 100. I thought that when your keyword is ranking well as a phrase (in quotes), it should rank equally as well when it's without the quotes. Because after all, it's the same combination of words, aligned in the same order, and Google should look for it the same way no matter if this word combo is being searched for with or without the quotes. However, results show that this is not the case. I have my own theory why this happens but I want to hear what other people who have more SEO experience than me have to say about it. So, what is your take on this? Why do you think my page gets ranked #2 for the keyword as a phrase but at the same does not get ranked at all as a regular combo of words?

08-12-2011, 11:13 AM	#10
danr62 Daniel The Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 380 Thanks: 178 Thanked 197 Times in 113 Posts Social Networking	Re: My page ranks #2 on Google, however... Searching in quotes is rarely an accurate picture of where you will rank without the quotes. The only thing searching in quotes will do is give you a slightly better idea of how many pages are targeting your keyphrase. Sure, if you rank #1 for your term with quotes, it should in theory be easier to rank without the quotes, but there are also so many off page factors to consider that it will only give you a general idea. Here's another search you can do that will tell you more about who's actively targeting your keyword phrase "keyword" intitle:"keyword" inurl:"keyword" inanchor:"keyword" You can also remove the quotes from the above to go a bit broader. However, this again is a general indicator that is only a bit more accurate than just using quotes. To really see the competition, check the backlinks, PR, domain age, and other factors of your competition. I like to use Market Samurai for this.