The old chestnut…dupe content, spinning, back links etc

[mikerj]

I would like to outline an example and list questions after and would appreciate comments from anyone that “really knows” the answers (not just opinions, but through experience and testing i.e. please no opinions, just fact)...sorry not trying to piss anyone off here, just looking for the facts:-

Say I write a single unique article and get it published say in the top 50 article directories. I have 2 links in the resource box, one that points to my client’s website and one that points to my business website. The article is almost entirely written to promote my clients business, although as I have a (small) link to my business website, I also get the benefit of promoting my business as well. My questions are:-

• 1. Please confirm that I am quite entitled to publish exactly the same article in each of these article directories (please assume it is not against their TOS etc, as I have checked this out previously) and there can/will be *no* ramifications/fallout (whatever) from any quarter for doing this i.e. not for me, my business/website or my clients business/website?

• 2. Will my client’s website get credit for 50 back links?

• 3. Will my website get credit for 50 back links?

• 4. Will Google simply pick out the authority/original (whatever) “version” (they are all identical) and show this article (in one of the 50 directories that I published to) in the Google results (SERP’s)?

• 5. If we are looking merely for back links (number not quality), do we publish to as many article directories as possible?

• 6. If we are looking merely for quality back links, do we then only publish to article directories that have high PR?

• 7. If we are looking only for traffic that comes from Google’s SERP’s, then do we need only to publish the article to *one* article directory? (I realize we will get traffic from the directory as well)

• 8. If we are looking to get more traffic than in 7. above, do we publish the article to the 50 article directories mentioned above or for that matter as many as possible so that we get the added traffic from each of the article directories?

Can we now say that instead of publishing the same article to the 50 top article directories mentioned above, but we publish a *different* spun version of the unique article to each of the article directories. What I would like to ask now is:-

• a. By spinning the article are we trying to cheat/game the system or will it or can it be seen as trying to cheat/game the system (Goole, visitors etc, whatever)?

• b. Assuming the answer to a. is no, then what % to we spin the article to?

• c. Is the spun % based purely on the original or between different versions (I am not even sure it is possible to compute the % spin between versions with the software out there currently)?

• d. What are the reasons why we spin the article?

If anyone can help with simple answers, ideally yes/no (this is why I have gone to these lengths to lay this out like this…so sorry it’s so long!) it will be appreciated. I do understand though that this might not be possible in all cases.

PLEASE NO OPINIONS ONLY FACTS.

If I can get clear answers to the above, then I think I will be able to lock this one away for good.
Thanks in anticipation…
mikerj

[webapex]

The only ones that can provide completely accurate factual answers are the Google staff sworn to secrecy. You may get testimonials from articles marketers as to what they have empirically found by trial and error to work for them, but that's probably not the only right answer.

Yea it's common practice to publish on the most important directory then wait until it is indexed in order to make the 'originator' that Google might giver preference, the site with highest authority.

Some swear by spinning, some 'experts' are successful without spinning, you can find plenty of indexed duplicates if you search "four score and seven years ago"

Spinning "between different" will, I suspect just give the spinning software a poorer start and make worse garbage, unless you start with hand written variations.
Again spinning is solely to fool the search engines into thinking it's not duplicate content, it's still a guessing game as to how much spinning passes their algorithm or how much effect duplicates on different sites has in the 1st place.

Yea if you are just looking to dazzle the client with numbers than yea submit all you can, but those from the top article directories pass much more value than #50, so much more that some feel submitting to the hole in the wall directories is not worth the effort.

Do consider one of the primary purposes of article directories is to act as distribution points for bloggers looking for quick content, a well written article is much more likely to be copied to blogs, multiplying your effort than some illegible spun junk.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by mikerj

i.e. please no opinions, just fact)

Arguably, there is no "fact" about anything involving Google's algorithms, since they're not public.

It's very difficult indeed to help you with the "yes" or "no" answers you say you seek, Mike, because (if you'll excuse my wording it bluntly) some of your questions appear to be formulated on the basis of mistaken beliefs, and "yes" or "no" answers to those questions are simply going to mislead you even further.

Originally Posted by mikerj

Please confirm that I am quite entitled to publish exactly the same article in each of these article directories

Yes; you are.

(As long as you own the copyright, or the directory distribution rights, of course).

Nor will TOS be an issue anyway, for article directories: article directories don't require previously unpublished content.

Originally Posted by mikerj

Will my client’s website get credit for 50 back links?

If all the article directories are indexed, yes.

Clearly a search engine can only "credit" a backlink on a page it indexes.

They'll all be non-context-relevant, PR-0 (or at first PR-na) backlinks, i.e. their collective link-juice isn't worth talking about.

Originally Posted by mikerj

Will my website get credit for 50 back links?

If all the article directories are indexed, yes.

Clearly a search engine can only "credit" a backlink on a page it indexes.

They'll all be non-context-relevant, PR-0 (or at first PR-na) backlinks, i.e. their collective link-juice isn't worth talking about.

Originally Posted by mikerj

Will Google simply pick out the authority/original (whatever) “version” (they are all identical) and show this article (in one of the 50 directories that I published to) in the Google results (SERP’s)?

In theory, the answer's "yes" (to the "whatever" part).

The one that's the "authority/original (whatever) version" can change, of course: it isn't immutable. The only immutable thing there is the site on which the content's initially indexed (that really can't change, or at least not without it being de-indexed), and even that won't always be the "one" that ranks in the main index - though there are ways of trying to ensure it usually is, if that's the outcome you want.

Their aim is for all the rest to be indexed only in the supplemental index.

In reality, though, it often doesn't work exactly that way. One or two others may also get into the main index, because their algorithm isn't perfect.

Originally Posted by mikerj

If we are looking merely for back links (number not quality), do we publish to as many article directories as possible?

That's up to you. If you'll excuse my putting it rather bluntly, it would be such a misguided thing to do that it's not worth discussing. (I speak as someone who routinely did exactly that, for many months, before I knew better ).

Originally Posted by mikerj

If we are looking merely for quality back links, do we then only publish to article directories that have high PR?

No.

Directories don't "have PR".

Websites don't "have PR". Pages have PR.

And all directory articles are published on PR-0 (or PR-na) pages, regardless of the page-rank of the directories' home pages (which is what you're actually thinking of, I can only guess - though of course it isn't where your articles are published). And that part is "factual". (You did say you wanted "fact", didn't you? ).

If you're looking for quality backlinks, you don't touch article directories. "Quality backlinks" and "article directories" are not just mutually exclusive but polar opposites. Article marketers (who have any success) are not using article directories for their own backlinks.

Originally Posted by mikerj

If we are looking only for traffic that comes from Google’s SERP’s, then do we need only to publish the article to *one* article directory? (I realize we will get traffic from the directory as well)

No - there's no downside at all to using more directories.

But there's typically no benefit, either.

Standard SEO textbook writers were commenting - even well before Google's "Panda update" devalued the article directories so much - that one would typically need something between 50,000 and 100,000 article directory backlinks to confer the link-juice equivalent to that from one backlink from a relevant authority site.

Note: that's 50,000 (- 100,000). Just 50 are not going to make any real, detectable difference, unless the keyword's something with almost no competition at all.

Originally Posted by mikerj

If we are looking to get more traffic than in 7. above, do we publish the article to the 50 article directories mentioned above or for that matter as many as possible so that we get the added traffic from each of the article directories?

No. You can't really get extra traffic that way.

Who's going to find them, and how?

And nobody would/should want to get their traffic that way, via an article directory, if they can get it directly to their own site. Saying "I have a 25% click-through-rate at XYZ directory" is just another way of saying "I lose 75% of my traffic at XYZ directory".

That's not what article directories are there for.

Originally Posted by mikerj

By spinning the article are we trying to cheat/game the system or will it or can it be seen as trying to cheat/game the system (Goole, visitors etc, whatever)?

Only you can know your motivation, Mike. Nobody can know, factually, whether Google will identify and penalise it. But not to put too fine a point on it, it's certainly extremely difficult to envisage that it might benefit you in any way.

Spinning, in these circumstances (many say "in all circumstances") won't help you. Your backlinks will not somehow, magically, improve simply because the content to which they're attached has been spun/altered/edited/changed.

Regarding all the "spinning questions" in your post, all you really need to do is have a careful, thoughtful read through this thread, which explains a lot of stuff about "spinning" and why most professional article marketers think it's a waste of time and based on fallacies and mistaken beliefs about "duplicate content", and then you'll really know all you need to know for the purposes you're asking about.

You seem to have mentioned "duplicate content" in your title, but nowhere in your post? Anyway, if a really succinct, professional, expert explanation of "duplicate content" helps you at all, there's one right here!

[RayWhittaker]

Originally Posted by mikerj

I would like to outline an example and list questions after and would appreciate comments from anyone that “really knows” the answers (not just opinions, but through experience and testing i.e. please no opinions, just fact)...sorry not trying to piss anyone off here, just looking for the facts:-

As WebApex said, nobody can give you the absolute facts on Google's algorithms exept Google; and they won't. The best you're going to get is the benefit of people's experiences. These won't necessarily be definitive answers. If you want to ignore this post as 'just opinion', you're free to do so but I'm responding to this in the hope that it brings you come clarity.

Originally Posted by mikerj

Say I write a single unique article and get it published say in the top 50 article directories. I have 2 links in the resource box, one that points to my client’s website and one that points to my business website. The article is almost entirely written to promote my clients business, although as I have a (small) link to my business website, I also get the benefit of promoting my business as well. My questions are:-

• 1. Please confirm that I am quite entitled to publish exactly the same article in each of these article directories (please assume it is not against their TOS etc, as I have checked this out previously) and there can/will be *no* ramifications/fallout (whatever) from any quarter for doing this i.e. not for me, my business/website or my clients business/website?

You are entitled to publish anything you like and Google is entitled to ignore it if it wishes. Many people, including myself, have published duplicate content on the web without suffering any adverse effects. In fact, we publish to content directories in the hope that someone will copy our content to their own sites and further propogate our backlinks. That's the whole point of article directories.

Some have said that recent changes to Googles algorithms have resulted in them penalizing content farms (as these directories are sometimes called). Others worry about the so called 'Google slap'; an imagined penalty for posting duplicate content. But the Google slap doesn't exist. Google does not penalize duplicate content. But they won't endlessly promote the same content over and over. To do that would provide Google users with a very poor user experience. Google wouldn't last long if it did that.

What Google does do is rank one version of the duplicate content; whichever one it regards as the most appropriate. The rest it simply ignores.

Originally Posted by mikerj

• 2. Will my client’s website get credit for 50 back links?

• 3. Will my website get credit for 50 back links?

I believe Google and other search engines will still count the backlinks but I'm not certain about this one.

Originally Posted by mikerj

• 4. Will Google simply pick out the authority/original (whatever) “version” (they are all identical) and show this article (in one of the 50 directories that I published to) in the Google results (SERP’s)?

That's basically the idea yes. What you want is for Google to pick out and rank the version that is on your site; or your client's site. To do this it might be better to create content for your own (client's) site that is well optimized for SEO and put something different on the directories which is not optimized

Originally Posted by mikerj

• 5. If we are looking merely for back links (number not quality), do we publish to as many article directories as possible?

• 6. If we are looking merely for quality back links, do we then only publish to article directories that have high PR?

For the most part yes. One backlink from a high PR site can be worth hundreds of links from PR 0 sites. (NOTE: This is fairly common knowledge in the IM world but I have nothing to verify it one way or the other).
Google also apparently holds .gov and .edu domains in high regard so links from these types of domains are usually high quality too.

Originally Posted by mikerj

• 7. If we are looking only for traffic that comes from Google’s SERP’s, then do we need only to publish the article to *one* article directory? (I realize we will get traffic from the directory as well)

No! Publish the article to your own website; or the site you are trying to get ranked. Ranking for an article you've placed on a directory is only going to help the directory to rank. All you get from it is the backlink. You need to have a blog on your (your client's) site.

Originally Posted by mikerj

• 8. If we are looking to get more traffic than in 7. above, do we publish the article to the 50 article directories mentioned above or for that matter as many as possible so that we get the added traffic from each of the article directories?

You could get traffic from the directories but more importantly, you get backlinks. Off-page SEO is all about getting backlinks. The more you get, the better the chances your site will rank highly.

Traffic from the first page of Google will far outweigh any traffic you get from directories

Originally Posted by mikerj

Can we now say that instead of publishing the same article to the 50 top article directories mentioned above, but we publish a *different* spun version of the unique article to each of the article directories. What I would like to ask now is:-

• a. By spinning the article are we trying to cheat/game the system or will it or can it be seen as trying to cheat/game the system (Goole, visitors etc, whatever)?

• b. Assuming the answer to a. is no, then what % to we spin the article to?

• c. Is the spun % based purely on the original or between different versions (I am not even sure it is possible to compute the % spin between versions with the software out there currently)?

• d. What are the reasons why we spin the article?

Article spinning is common practice. It all revolves around the 'dubplicate content' issue. Some people persist in believing that Google penalizes duplicate content, even though Google themselves have stated that they don't. Others want to dominate the whole of Google's page one for a given keyword and hope that they can fool Google into believing the spun content is all original; thereby achieving page one with several different versions of the same article.

Of course, Google don't want to see that happen. It wouldn't provide their users with a quality experience. So Google does everything it can to keep duplicate content from the first page.

Really, if we stop to think about it, providing a good user experience in the searches is a benefit to all of us in the long run.

Originally Posted by mikerj

If anyone can help with simple answers, ideally yes/no (this is why I have gone to these lengths to lay this out like this…so sorry it’s so long!) it will be appreciated. I do understand though that this might not be possible in all cases.

PLEASE NO OPINIONS ONLY FACTS.

If I can get clear answers to the above, then I think I will be able to lock this one away for good.
Thanks in anticipation…
mikerj

[AnniePot]

These three links, from highly experienced people should prove helpful to you:

Article Marketing Blog

The Duplicate Content Penalty Myth

Duplicate Content Not An Everyday Problem | WebProNews

[mikerj]

Thanks very much webapex, Alexa, Ray (fellow country man) and Aniepot,

I'd like to pick up on a few points.

Thanks for your comments webapex:-

Originally Posted by webapex

Again spinning is solely to fool the search engines

Yeh, I am tending to agree with you and what I can't help thinking is that long term it's not good to rely on these "holes" in the SE's system. Also, If the spun content is not absolutely "pucker" (and from what I can see this can take some considerable time to produce a good spun article) I see this perhaps switching visitors off. In addition to this reflecting or perhaps could reflect badly on the author. I guess if you don't value your work and your name and are simply out for the money, then perhaps it might not matter in the short term.

Originally Posted by webapex

Do consider one of the primary purposes of article directories is to act as distribution points for bloggers looking for quick content, a well written article is much more likely to be copied to blogs, multiplying your effort than some illegible spun junk.

Yes, I take this point and agree.

Hi Alexa, I was wondering if I could entice you out on this as I know this is a pet subject of yours. Nice to meet you and thanks for responding in such a frank way. Frank is the best way and I like it!.

I guess I can say that I have very few beliefs and like to investigate and read what others have experienced. I learnt a long time ago that it good to stand on the shoulders of others, but first make sure that the foundation that they stand on is strong and will with stand my weight...any way enough philosophy and on to a few of the points you made:-

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Nor will TOS be an issue anyway, for article directories: article directories don't require previously unpublished content.

There are directories that will not accept articles that are any where else online, either before you publish to their directory or after. Granted I have only come across a few (not more than I could list on one hand), but they there.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

If all the article directories are indexed, yes.

Clearly a search engine can only "credit" a backlink on a page it indexes.

They'll all be non-context-relevant, PR-0 (or at first PR-na) backlinks, i.e. their collective link-juice isn't worth talking about.

Yes absolutely I understand this. The directories I am talking about are top directories, so they will be "crawled" at infinitum.

You seem very "stayed" with regard to where the article or should I say what type (PR) of pages the articles will end up on? It would then I guess be very good to be able get are articles straight away onto pages with PR3, even if that is only one directory?

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

The one that's the "authority/original (whatever) version" can change, of course

- How?

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

and even that won't always be the "one" that ranks in the main index - though there are ways of trying to ensure it usually is, if that's the outcome you want.

-Why would you worry if they are all the same in each directory?

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

If you're looking for quality backlinks, you don't touch article directories. "Quality backlinks" and "article directories" are not just mutually exclusive but polar opposites. Article marketers (who have any success) are not using article directories for their own backlinks.

-Alexa, I am all ears if you are willing to share where these quality back links to their main site come from?

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

No - there's no downside at all to using more directories.

But there's typically no benefit, either.

Do you not consider the time that it takes to submit as the down side if there is no benefit?

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

That's not what article directories are there for.

Ok, I am confused. I go back to a question/point I made above; why not simply publish to one article directory then. Is it just the fact that your number of back links to your site is increased. But then you say these back links are worth didely squat, so I am back to confused

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

But not to put too fine a point on it, it's certainly extremely difficult to envisage that it might benefit you in any way.

Am I right in saying that you do not bother to spin articles?

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

You seem to have mentioned "duplicate content" in your title, but nowhere in your post? Anyway, if a really succinct, professional, expert explanation of "duplicate content" helps you at all, theres one right here!

I thought that might be the only way I could get you to bite Alex, what a bad boy I am!

Now to Ray I see up in good old Manchester!

Ray, my business is to do with local business. My site does not need to be ranked. Actually most my clients never see my website. So I don't actually put the articles up on my site or neither on a blog that I run in parallel with my website (I am thinking about this one though). Neither can I lumber my Clients with putting them up on their sites, if I want to keep their accounts that is and I do! It may not be good to put them up on my website (I think) as the subject matter of the articles differs enormously from the content on my site and what my business is about, so I am thinking about a blog on a new domain.

AnniePot, thanks ever so much for the links, they are extremely helpful


Thanks again for your comments, Guys and Gals!


Matt, I know your frustration, but if you had read my post you would have seen that it has little to do with dupe content. I explained "why" the title further up. Thanks for the info though.

IMRookie1, yep it is good to see what the peeps in the know have to say. I hope there are comments still made by some of the other big guns.

Best
Mike

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by mikerj

There are directories that will not accept articles that are any where else online, either before you publish to their directory or after.

No indeed - with apologies for the dissenting tone, there just aren't, Mike.

I strongly suspect that in making this observation, you're thinking of some sites as "article directories" that aren't article directories (possibly they're article "submission sites", whatever that means). As people do.

The nearest thing to that is Buzzle, but that allows no external backlinks at all now, not even in a resource-box, so we really don't want to count that as an "article directory", for marketing purposes, do we?

Article directories do NOT require previously unpublished content.

(I grant you there used to be some. They found it didn't work. Funny, that ... ).

Originally Posted by mikerj

You seem very "stayed" with regard to where the article or should I say what type (PR) of pages the articles will end up on?

All new pages on all new websites are PR-0, Mike.

How could it be otherwise?!

You make a new page on your site/blog; I make a new page on my site/blog; EZA makes a new page on its site/blog; any other article directory makes a new page on its site/blog ... what do they all have in common? No page rank. No new pages are born with page rank.

Originally Posted by mikerj

It would then I guess be very good to be able get are articles straight away onto pages with PR3, even if that is only one directory?

It wouldn't help me.

Relevance helps me. If I can get my article on domestic desalination technology into a special article directory for "home technology articles", that helps me. A PR-3 page in a non-context-relevant directory doesn't help me, worth talking about. And all those nice authors of all those nice standard SEO textbooks have explained why ...

I do wish Google would just do away with "page rank" instead of so consistently and thoroughly devaluing it and making it irrelevant, while continuing the pretence that it's somehow "helpful".

Originally Posted by mikerj

-Alexa, I am all ears if you are willing to share where these quality back links to their main site come from?

They're "quality" because they're relevant. That gives link-juice. And they're coming from relevant sites to which people syndicate articles from directories. This is why directories exist, hello?

Originally Posted by mikerj

Do you not consider the time that it takes to submit as the down side if there is no benefit?

I suppose, yes. I meant "downside" in the sense of "doing your site any damage". There are strange people who believe in "negative SEO" and "penalties" in this context ... I'm "just saying").

Originally Posted by mikerj

why not simply publish to one article directory then.

Personally, I typically publish to two.

I'm frightened of publishing to one, because it would be just my poxy, revolting luck for the one I choose to go out of business the next day/week/month/year. So, better safe than sorry, belt and braces approach, stockings and stilettos approach, however you like to look at it: I'm submitting to two. And to be honest, Warriors here tell me that they do get articles syndicated from GoArticles as well as from EZA. So I try. It doesn't work for me, because EZA is all I need, but I try anyway. Sometimes you just have to "show willing".

To be honest, I sometimes submit to those two and to ArticlesBase as well; but I admit that's a little "neurotic" and definitely un peu de trop.

Originally Posted by mikerj

Is it just the fact that your number of back links to your site is increased. But then you say these back links are worth didely squat

I do.

Originally Posted by mikerj

Am I right in saying that you do not bother to spin articles?

Yes, indeed ...

Originally Posted by mikerj

I thought that might be the only way I could get you to bite Alex, what a bad boy I am!

Sorry to be so predictable ...

Originally Posted by mikerj

Now to Ray I see up in good old Manchester!

Have heard of it. Place with an American-owned football team, or something? Even two football teams, maybe?

[Andyhenry]

Hey Peeps,

Since most of the good stuff has been covered (thanks for saving me the trouble - yet again ) I'll just chime in a couple of thoughts that came up while reading through the thread:

1 - As Alexa so rightly pointed out already - PR = PAGE RANK.

Now, it may well be a lucky co-incidence that Larry's second name is Page, but it's for sure that PR applies to PAGES.

Why am I saying this again? To hammer home the point about links and link juice.

So many people blast out content or create accounts to get links from "high PR sites" and completely miss the fact that a) the page with their link has ZERO PR, and b) their link (even if it was on a page with high PR) might be nofollow and carry no juice.

2 - That nofollow thing is only important from an seo perspective (the traffic will still come through the link), so this is why when Alexa talks about the 'value' of a link she's usually not referring to PR but the likelyhood that having the link will bring you new business/visitors.

Therefore if you're offered 1000 PR 4 links or 10 links from well trafic'd web pages - go for the traffic. 1 PR 5 link from a relevant site is worth thousands of irrelevant PR4 links. (but most links on article sites are almost worthless).

3 - Now, this sort of goes against what Alexa said about one thing (apologies in advance).

I'm referring to the "new pages can't have page rank". Actually, where a CMS (content management system) is used, for example Wordpress, then by default a new page will usually have internal site links pointing to it.

If you have a WP blog you'll know this - when you create a new page you can choose the page title, the page slug, the page tag, and the category for the new post/page).

Therefore - obviously as well as it being pinged (because by default WP does this to all new pages) it will have links created that point to it from within the category it's in, and wherever else your site structure includes it ('newest posts on home page' etc.).

So, to get to my point - it's actually possible that a new page can indeed be getting passed some considerable juice from internal site links.

I'm not saying you can bank on this or that you should even look for it or care about it (unless you're building your own site, in which case you should care and actively use this to your advantage to funnel page rank and link juice to the right pages) but just bringing it up for consideration.

Andy

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

2 - That nofollow thing is only important from an seo perspective (the traffic will still come through the link), so this is why when Alexa talks about the 'value' of a link she's usually not referring to PR but the likelyhood that having the link will bring you new business/visitors.

Many thanks, Andy. I overlook that people may misunderstand this. I need to learn to say it more clearly.

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

3 - Now, this sort of goes against what Alexa said about one thing (apologies in advance).

Nah ... you're not: you're being more accurate. I generalise.

I should give only specific, relevant examples.

I should say something like "EZA is the best article directory with the highest-page-rank for its own home page and one of the best internal linking structures, and even when you submit an article to EZA, the page on which it's published will have no detectable page-rank but be a PR-0 page even after being indexed by Google". (Even this is a slight generalisation, because it may have a rank of "zero-point-something" without that actually showing).

Thank you, Andy.

[mikerj]

Hi Alexa,

Thanks for your comments

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I strongly suspect that in making this observation, you're thinking of some sites as "article directories" that aren't article directories (possibly they're article "submission sites", whatever that means). As people do.

No, I actually have six directories in my data base which are orange tagged which means totally unique content. But knowing the Gal you are I will recheck the details and then publish here if you like?

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

The nearest thing to that is Buzzle, but that allows no external backlinks at all now, not even in a resource-box, so we really don't want to count that as an "article directory", for marketing purposes, do we?

Yes, I am aware of Buzzle and its change in no longer allowing external links...I am/was a writer there.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

All new pages on all new websites are PR-0, Mike.

Alexa, I am not debating the age of the pages, all I was hinting at is that I know of one directory where the articles automatically go onto a page with PR3.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

This is why directories exist, hello?

Slow down Gal...I got the point

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I suppose, yes. I meant "downside" in the sense of "doing your site any damage". There are strange people who believe in "negative SEO" and "penalties" in this context ... I'm "just saying").

I say absolutely yes...time is money no. Yes I knew what you meant.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Personally, I typically publish to two.

Now, thanks for confirming this...this is most helpful to me. So you completely rule out the "value" of the back links obtained from having articles published in article directories? Basically because you submit to 2 directories period. (Value also being defined as the link juice passed from the article to your site and also any traffic that may come to you site from the published article.)

I too am coming to the conclusion that spinning articles is not a good idea as I mentioned above in my comments to webapex. But I am open to any pearls of wisdom from anyone on this issue and would really appreciate any comments made with regard to spinning and why some people are sold on doing this...just have to look at the software available to see there is a market for it.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Have heard of it (Manchester). Place with an American-owned football team, or something? Even two football teams, maybe?

Hey, you naughty girl that was for Ray...but seen as you mention it, yes it has one football team that is the best in world...most of the time!

Hey Andy thanks for hoping aboard and nice to meet up with a fellow countryman!

Yes Andy, I am well aware that PR refers to page and not directory...merely a slip of the proverbial pen earlier. Yes, I agree that it is most important know what the PR of the page that the article sits on as apposed to the PR of the Home page. This was always a wrangle between webmasters back in early 2000's when it came to links and link directories or should I say farms!

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

2 - That nofollow thing is only important from an seo perspective (the traffic will still come through the link), so this is why when Alexa talks about the 'value' of a link she's usually not referring to PR but the likelyhood that having the link will bring you new business/visitors.

Yes, absolutely agree with this.

Thanks very much for your other comments.

Best
Mike