How important is kw in the domain name? or url?

[outwest]

In a new kw niche I want to start going after

I notice the top 10 on google, MOST of the sites do not even have the kws in the url, and they CERTAINLY do not have the kws in the domain name, (forget about exact match domain, that would be amazing to find)

Most have 10s of thousands of backlinks to the page (according to Market samurai analysis) but its obvious looking at the sites that they Did Not, target this term (the main term I am going after)

To me the reason google put them in the top ten? Because nobody is Really targeting and Really going after this term. It is highly related to other terms that the top 10 sites target , sure, I think thats why Google put them in the top 10 but

They did not put the term in their url
They did not put the term in their domain name
They also did not for the most part put the term in the Header, the description etc etc, which also makes sense

I realize that the onpage SEO factors are very important to Google , and it might be possible to outrank these sites for this term (despite their 10s of thousands of backlinks)

But how important is kw in domain? to google?

I know that EMD (exact match domain ) for .com .net or .org would be great and get a nice boost, but alas, most of the times these domain extensions are long gone, as they are gone in this case

[outwest]

Anyone? is this question confusing? Should I reword it?

[36burrows]

It definitely gives a SEO boost to have the kw in the domain in my experience.

If the EMD is gone you can still use the kw with a suffix at the end.

Can you still rank a site without the kw in the domain? Yes, of course. But I've found it to be a whole lot easier with the kw in the domain.

[outwest]

well its part of an overall analyzing the top 10 competition i am developing, but I think you are right, it does help a lot

[Homer Lasa Hood]

It actually depends. One website these days does not actually need their keywords on either the domain name or url. You can either put put it right in there or not - it's your choice.

What matters is that your target keyword is emphasized and included well on your contents. These days Google gives more value on keywords on content because in most cases, some other on-page factors can be spammed.

[eurekapsycrille]

Read my thread here: Keyword in URL Vs. Unique URL name

and read NickWatson's answers about my question and you will find the answer.

[Fernando Veloso]

EMD's are great for slow backlink campaigns. If you go REALLY slow with them and with contextual BK, they are definitely a good choice.

But EMD's are most probably "watched" by Google - they know webmasters use them to rank high... so go easy.

[outwest]

Well no problem there, the chances of me getting an EMD lately is slim to none, most of the ones I am targetting have every domain extension available, already gone but i dont let that deter me since most of these are domain squatters

My only question is
When the top 10 competition on Google has

1. most of the sites with N N N N, (no no no no) on kw in url? header? desc? title?
2. most of the top 10 has 10s of thousands of backlinks (I used to just immediately click off If I saw that, Now I am reconsidering)
3. almost all the sites showing in the top 10 are not kw optimized PAGES, they are just the root domains. (www.site.com) and the kw is NOT in their domain name either.

If I see this situation now, I tend to think hmm I bet I can outrank these sites
IF

1.I get a .com domain with the kw in the domain name
2. I put excellent onpage SEO
3. I do a good backlinking campaign

I am thinking I can do this even with a brand new domain within 6 months

perhaps I am delusional

[ethanhunt0257]

Without keywords you can't take the next step. It's very necessary.

[JamesGw]

It's a pretty big ranking factor, although Google has been devaluing it as of lately.

[netcatapult]

It definately helps if you can include it, but as we can all see there are plenty of example out there that do not have their KW in their domain and still rank nicely. Remember, it is just one of many factors and the more you can have in your favor... the better!

[outwest]

Oh yes I know plenty do rank nicely without the kw in their domain
however I think this is just google throwing its hands up and saying, ok here this is all I can find

the ones that I see doing that, well most have the kw in their url notice some people confuse this with kw in the domain, which is not what I am saying

its easy to put the kw in the url, just add a page on any domain
with putting the kw in the domain, you have only one shot at doing that, per site

but I do think Google gives a large boost to sites who do this (in the domain) especially EMDs

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by JamesGw

It's a pretty big ranking factor, although Google has been devaluing it as of lately.

You have proof of this?

[Fernando Veloso]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

You have proof of this?

Perhaps common sense? EMD's have been spammed to death - and Google is always changing factors to avoid those gaps in SERP's...

Even if they aren't getting nuked NOW, they will be pretty soon - personal bet.

[outwest]

I dont think its possible for google to devalue EMDs

too many important companies use the EMD to be their main domain

Johnson products>?
of course they want Johnsonproducts.com net or .org

how is google going to devalue when its so important and the standard in the internet to get the EMD .com for your company

[stephencammeron]

Originally Posted by outwest

I am thinking I can do this even with a brand new domain within 6 months

perhaps I am delusional

Oh, you're definitely not!

Basically speaking, ofcourse you can outrank them. As long as you know what to do. Moreover, the very fact that those in the top 10 doesn't have the advantages that you can have from those things that matters are signs of having a good start.

[ours]

Domain name is important and yes it give value to get rank in SERP. Now this is just one factor to get success in the ranking but other areas like proper relevant content, link popularity etc.
Assume you have a domain name related to finance and you place some content there long back and never touch that site so you cant expect to get rank. Need regular work to get success.

[outwest]

I guess the main point of the post is

If you are looking in Market Samurai and see the top 10 sites all have 20,000 backlinks or more, (you know what I mean) to the page itself

Dont necessarily just say, oh screw this kw no way I can beat those

What to look for?

1. If most of the top 10 have SITES listed, (www.site.com) and Not PAGES

2. and if the Domains of the sites you are seeing do NOT contain your kws

And then you say hmmm ok and then what?

then if the Onpage SEO (kw in url? header? title? description? ) all say N N N N on it, or even
N Y N Y, then IMO they are not targeting the term. Wouldnt you put the kw in the title, description? url? and header ? if you had any knowledge of SEO and were targeting a term? You bet

then In my opinion
Those sites are NOT targeting the term

And IMO you SHOULD be able to outrank those sites
(even if they have a 5 yr old PR 5 with 20,000 backlinks)

Why?

Those backlinks are just going to their main domain url , not a SEO optimized page

If you do the following IMO (and this is just speculation based on what I see in the SERPS) you should be able to outrank them

1. get either an EMD or go buy a variation of the kw term blahkeyword.com
2. backlink the page very well
3. Put perfect onpage SEO (title, desc, url, and header)

Just a theory I have but based on the results I have seen I think this may be a valid theory

Why is this so important? Because going by the conventional wisdom if you see a kw term and all the top ten in google have 10s of thousands of backlinks, most would say, oh forget that term.
How many times do you pull up the SEO results for the Google top 10 on Market samurai and see 30,000 backlinks to the page, 20k 30k etc etc in the top ten

According to the theory above, these sites may still be able to be outranked with a new domain

[paulgl]

You rock today, Fernando!

I saw the same thing coming...

Anyway, like a broken record, I will mention that warriorforum and digitalpoint
are the 2 biggest baddest forums on internet marketing. What does that
say about their domains?

Also, one has to look at amazon.com, ebay, zillow, kayak, etc. and
you have still more answers to the question.

IMHO, authority sites will still reign, domain never matters.

Build authority, and domain is secondary.

Paul

[outwest]

Originally Posted by paulgl

You rock today, Fernando!

I saw the same thing coming...

Anyway, like a broken record, I will mention that warriorforum and digitalpoint
are the 2 biggest baddest forums on internet marketing. What does that
say about their domains?

Also, one has to look at amazon.com, ebay, zillow, kayak, etc. and
you have still more answers to the question.

IMHO, authority sites will still reign, domain never matters.

Build authority, and domain is secondary.

Paul

I am not saying an authority site is not the way to go
I am talking about OUTRANKING Authority sites in the top 10 of google for the kws you are targeting, and those authority sites still rank and they are NOT targeting your kws

but most people would get scared of their backlinks and domain age and PR and not even try

I am saying if they are listed top 10 for the term, yet they have no onpage SEO for the term, its not in their domain, and google is not listing their subpage its listing their main domain only (which does not contain this kw)

that you can possibly still outrank them
even if they are 6 yr old PR 6 with 20k backlinks and you are just buying a new domain

thats not the same thing as saying DONT BUILD AUTHORITY sites, or just build crappy sites

[James-]

Hi Paul,

What you are saying is correct, but what if the OP wants to build mini sniper sites based around a keyword?

In that case, the EMD will be beneficial over branding i think. In my own experience, i have managed to rank EMD's a lot quicker than other domains. How long this will last is a another story, but i believe there is still some worth in doing it.

[outwest]

how often are EMDs available? they sure are gone years ago for all the terms I am interested in targeting

I dont think anyone disputes that EMDs especially .com EMDs are very powerful
the question is , how is that information relevant if those EMDs are not available? which is the case most of the time. Sure if you want to target a term that gets 200 searches a month I am sure you can find the EMD
but who wants to waste time targeting those low traffic terms?

The point of my original post was not "are EMDs powerful"

The point was is it important to put the kws in THE DOMAIN
EMDs are a fantasy for most of us
99 percent of the time, heck 99.99 percent of the time I look for a kw I want to target
not only are the EMD .com net org gone, but so are the info .co.uk, .me, org.uk, .us, .anything else you can think of. they are all gone

EMD for me at least is a fantasy, I never find them, oh wait Sometime they are available (for a price)
Most of the time I see 2000 dollars, 5000 dollars, 10,000 dollars and this domain can be yours

tempting , but LOL

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Perhaps common sense? EMD's have been spammed to death - and Google is always changing factors to avoid those gaps in SERP's...

Even if they aren't getting nuked NOW, they will be pretty soon - personal bet.

So basically just speculation, no proof at all.

[outwest]

everyone is fawning about what fernando said

IMO what he said is perhaps the least supportable position in the thread
agreed
pure speculation

[Christine2011]

For me, keyword in the domain name is very important for better search ranking

[AshJM]

EMD's do not rank as well as they used to, this is not speculative, it is based on my personal experience and tracking 1000's of domains. Don’t get me wrong, they still rank… but if you are in this for the long term I’d start thinking seriously about branding before the Google fist comes down.

[kaivearn]

the more closely the domain name matches the keyword, the better chances you have for ranking, and less backlinks needed.

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by Micawber

EMD's do not rank as well as they used to, this is not speculative, it is based on my personal experience and tracking 1000's of domains. Don’t get me wrong, they still rank… but if you are in this for the long term I’d start thinking seriously about branding before the Google fist comes down.

Oh yeah? 1000's of websites huh?

Tell me why Google gives a damn about EMD's?

As if all of the EMD's on the internet will just fall off the planet.

They have no reason to put any fist down. These sites make a LOT of money for Google. And they are laser targeted traffic for their advertisers.

[yukon]

I don't preach that EMDs are a big deal, so don't flame me for this, lol.

I just now (5min ago) bought an EMD for a really good keyword, 32k per month search and an extra 50+k per month on the related long-tails. I was very surprised this EMD wasn't already taken, it's the .net, that I bought. The .com was already taken & doesn't rank on the first page of the SERPs.

I can't wait to get started on this new domain, it's a very popular subject/keyword (not seo/IM related).

The only advantage I see that an EMD would have is If you can't get anchor-text on the backlink.

[InitialEffort]

Take a look at the rankings for Viagra and decide for yourself if the keyword in the domain is more important than link building

[Targeted Traffic]

From Google’s perspective, keyword in domains plays a very small role in determining the rank of a website. Google is more focused on the quality of links pointing to a website and the content of that site, not whether the website has its primary keyword in its domain name or not. [Not to say it's not important, it's just not as important.]

[ruchikars]

I am agree with outwest post he is absolutely right. and thanks to outwest for nice views and guide.

[yukon]

Originally Posted by InitialEffort

Take a look at the rankings for Viagra and decide for yourself if the keyword in the domain is more important than link building

No doubt that's some stiff competition!

[junne]

Originally Posted by outwest

In a new kw niche I want to start going after

I notice the top 10 on google, MOST of the sites do not even have the kws in the url, and they CERTAINLY do not have the kws in the domain name, (forget about exact match domain, that would be amazing to find)

Most have 10s of thousands of backlinks to the page (according to Market samurai analysis) but its obvious looking at the sites that they Did Not, target this term (the main term I am going after)

To me the reason google put them in the top ten? Because nobody is Really targeting and Really going after this term. It is highly related to other terms that the top 10 sites target , sure, I think thats why Google put them in the top 10 but

They did not put the term in their url
They did not put the term in their domain name
They also did not for the most part put the term in the Header, the description etc etc, which also makes sense

I realize that the onpage SEO factors are very important to Google , and it might be possible to outrank these sites for this term (despite their 10s of thousands of backlinks)

But how important is kw in domain? to google?

I know that EMD (exact match domain ) for .com .net or .org would be great and get a nice boost, but alas, most of the times these domain extensions are long gone, as they are gone in this case

If you are having kw in domain then its an advantage for you but its not like you will definitely rank on top for that kw.
competitors having bulk of backlinks doing seo from several years it is not that possible to compete them because they have THE POWER OF BACKLINK and in seo backlinks play the lead role.

[Habbakuk]

Everything is a myth guys, even Google is a myth.

[Crystal84]

Keyword included in domian is better for SERP and costs less time for the same position.

[DISCOUNT OFFER]

Keyword is very important factor in domain selection, because in this way you easily outrank your competitors.

[outwest]

Dont you just love when you find a .com or .net EMD available, its like finding buried treasure, I always worry if I dont go buy it right away it will be snatched up

[robdavids]

Agree that having the keywords in the url is faster and easier to rank and keep position but in the long run should not be the final factor in moving forward

[outwest]

The reason I brought this up , kw in domain name is this

The top 10 spread I am referring to have a lot of sites like this
Lets say I am looking at the kw Insurance Fraud
the top 10 might list a site like this

myfinancialproblems.info: (thats the domain notice Insurance fraud not in the domain name NOR is it in the URL)

1.Domain Age" 7 yrs old
2. PR is 5
3. Backlinks 20,000 (these must be to the root domain myfinancialproblems.info they are not to a SEO optimized page on the site, if it was they would display the PAGE not the root domain
4. Indexed Pages 5,000
5. Onpage SEO (Kw in url, header, title, description) ......N N N N (no no no no)


so the site is not optimized for the kw Insurance Fraud, AT ALL
the onpage SEO is non existent Google cant even find a PAGE to display for the site, for that kw , (insurance fraud)

and there is NO kw in the Domain name, OR the url

Thats why i brought up the kw in the domain name.

IMO if all the above factors are present (the onpage SEO is non existent, and no kw in domain name or url)

That means that this site can be outranked, with a new domain that is SEO optimized with insurance Fraud in the domain name such as Insurancefraudinfo.com (or some variation thereof that is available)

this is assuming the new site is properly backlinked, and SEO'd well onpage

What do you think

[JROC777]

What would the max length be for an EMD ? I'm going after a niche that has 18k searches/month the EMD is available and the top ten sites don’t have the keyword in the main domain and dont look well optomized, all of the top ten Google sites are also extensions. The domain I am considering would be 6 words e.g. “how to xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx.com

I used Traffic Travis that indicates it should be relatively easy

I'm no expert and looking for input

Thx

[outwest]

I would not put that many words in the domain name
Not saying I know 100 percent that its a no no but it looks odd and to me a bit spammy
You should not need a domain name that long,


Google does not rank SITEs
they rank PAGES in those sites (for the most part)

[discustipated]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

Oh yeah? 1000's of websites huh?

Tell me why Google gives a damn about EMD's?

As if all of the EMD's on the internet will just fall off the planet.

They have no reason to put any fist down. These sites make a LOT of money for Google. And they are laser targeted traffic for their advertisers.

you right. google is not going to do that. i hate it when people think they know everything about what googles gonna do next. lol

[discustipated]

Originally Posted by JROC777

What would the max length be for an EMD ? I'm going after a niche that has 18k searches/month the EMD is available and the top ten sites don’t have the keyword in the main domain and dont look well optomized, all of the top ten Google sites are also extensions. The domain I am considering would be 6 words e.g. “how to xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx.com

I used Traffic Travis that indicates it should be relatively easy

I'm no expert and looking for input

Thx

traffic travis is way off track when it comes the that difficulty bar..everything else is good though.

[nicoledeal]

I have multiple sites that are ranked on page one that do not have my selected keywords in the domain.

The only time I consider keyword/domain name correlation is when I am selecting a very narrowly defined niche.

On the flip side, I have domains with my targeted keywords in the domain name that do not fare as well.

From personal experience over the past couple years, the only conclusion that I have been able to make is that domain name may have an influence on who will click on your search result due to their perceived relevance of your site vs. their expected results (the resolution your site may provide to their need).