Sites Using BMR Just Dropped

[36burrows]

A few of my sites that I regularly use BMR with all just experienced a heavy drop in rankings at the exact same time.

Every page on each site have all dropped at least 2-3 pages or more.

These are authority type sites, all with 30+ pages of unique content.

One of them was ranked #1 for a tough health keyword, it dropped to #5 for that one, rest of the pages dropped too.


Haven't come to conclusions just yet, but is anyone else using BMR experiencing this?

I lost my temper over it, now I've calmed down a little and trying to figure out wtf is going on.

Will keep the thread updated.

[outwest]

dang, hmmm
wonder if others have seen this

[theverysmartguy]

I use BMR exclusively on my sites ( besides the initial linking from automated social bookmarking. ). And I have NOT seen a drop in my rankings.

It might be something else that you did that caused those drops. Have you done any link blasts to your sites lately? Or something else along those lines.

I have kept a steady flow of 10 links per site per day going since I started, and I have only seen a stable increase in my rankings.

-- Jeff

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by theverysmartguy

I use BMR exclusively on my sites ( besides the initial linking from automated social bookmarking. ). And I have NOT seen a drop in my rankings.

It might be something else that you did that caused those drops. Have you done any link blasts to your sites lately? Or something else along those lines.

I have kept a steady flow of 10 links per site per day going since I started, and I have only seen a stable increase in my rankings.

-- Jeff

Nope, I stay away from link blasts completely. I've already learned my lesson there.

At this point I really have no idea wtf happened.

I'm glad to hear that your BMR sites are still in tact, I'll keep searching.

[theverysmartguy]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

Nope, I stay away from link blasts completely. I've already learned my lesson there.

At this point I really have no idea wtf happened.

I'm glad to hear that your BMR sites are still in tact, I'll keep searching.

Good to hear that you keep away from link blasts, not sure why people like them so much when they do so much damage.

I hope you find out what happened, maybe it was just a dance or something. Even though I have not seen a dance while using BMR.

-- Jeff

[swym]

My sites are using BMR for backlinks. I can say 80% of the backlinks are coming from BMR network but I didn't see a drop in ranking.
Did you change the daily posting limit recently?

[36burrows]

I do have a few other smaller niche sites which have a Wordpress plugin that automatically posts related Youtube videos on a daily basis.

This is the only other thing I can think of.

Whatever happened, I'm totally screwed regardless.

[futuremills]

just keep building links. Submit a minimum of 5 bmr posts to your sites per day and then add some fresh content to your sites. also use a different type of linkbuilding to go along with your bmr posts

[ahefner33]

BMR user and didn't see any drop. You could have had some of your links move off the homepage of some of your submissions.

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by ahefner33

BMR user and didn't see any drop. You could have had some of your links move off the homepage of some of your submissions.

Yes but every single page on every single one of my sites all dropped at the exact same time, so it has to be something else.

[fs007]

My site using BMR for my link building and the didn't drop,still on the first page

maybe you should check your on page optimization or any external link from your page

i combine BMR+Linkvana+SEO linkvine the site still in page

[tj_inreality]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

Yes but every single page on every single one of my sites all dropped at the exact same time, so it has to be something else.

Same thing happened to me. Started using BMR a couple weeks ago and EVERY page on my site fell 50 spots. Before this happened, I had multiple #1 spots.

But I'm not sure if it is BMR or not, since I started doing other things as well around the same time, such as varying anchors, etc.

Still, it's weird that this is happening to both of us. One other possibility I came up with is that my site is over-optimized. I'm researching this right now and trying to de-optimize my pages and anchors to see if they improve in rankings.

[Clyde]

Another algo change was rolled out today.

If you go on to the other forums you'll see at least 5 people reporting this.

What are your other backlinks sources?

Edit: Ah, just read you dropped from #1-#5, that's normal and probably is just Google dance. Buy some High PR homepage backlinks and keep doing BMR. I think you'll be fine 1-2 months time.

[ricky709]

Since yesterday few of my sites are experiencing a drop in traffic. I guess there is an update rolled our by Google....not sure though

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by Clyde

Another algo change was rolled out today.

If you go on to the other forums you'll see at least 5 people reporting this.

What are your other backlinks sources?

Edit: Ah, just read you dropped from #1-#5, that's normal and probably is just Google dance. Buy some High PR homepage backlinks and keep doing BMR. I think you'll be fine 1-2 months time.

Thing is though, the #1 - #5 was only for ONE keyword.

Every page on EVERY one of my sites dropped heavily.

My traffic is peanuts compared to yesterday

[Clyde]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

Thing is though, the #1 - #5 was only for ONE keyword.

Every page on EVERY one of my sites dropped heavily.

My traffic is peanuts compared to yesterday

Any footprint across the sites that dropped heavily?

Are the on the same IP/host?

Same/spun content? Same templates? Same backlink sources?

[Dex88]

Thanks for this post, will definitely have a look at the websites that I am promoting in BMR as well.

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by Clyde

Any footprint across the sites that dropped heavily?

Are the on the same IP/host?

Same/spun content? Same templates? Same backlink sources?

All of my sites are on the same host. I don't want to pay for another host when Hostgator lets me use unlimited domains.

No spun content, I stay away from that stuff.

This really sucks though, everything I've worked for is gone.

I was on the cusp of making it full-time and now I may as well beg for change in the grocery store parking lot.

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

All of my sites are on the same host. I don't want to pay for another host when Hostgator lets me use unlimited domains.

No spun content, I stay away from that stuff.

This really sucks though, everything I've worked for is gone.

I was on the cusp of making it full-time and now I may as well beg for change in the grocery store parking lot.

Yep thats how it goes. I am constantly going through this. 1 site takes off making money and another gets penalized. Right now I have 3 sites that took big hits (basically gone) in the last month that were earning $500 a month between the 3 of them. The only thing I can say is build as many sites as you can. Try and vary the link building for each one a bit.

Although you want to believe the penalty is 1 thing it doesn't work like that. For example to you the only thing you see is "All these sites use BMR". The algorithm might see

1 - Each page has high keyword density
2 - Each page has similar slightly unnatural link portfolio
3 - Anchor text is not varied very much
4 - Content is not as unique as competing pages

Then the algo factors all this into a trust score and, 1 last straw pushes that trust score below the line and BAM… penalized. It could be as simple as a teetering trust score and 1 too many similar anchor text links. Don't ever think its one thing. It never usually is. Now the big problem is lifting a penalty is much harder then getting one. Lets say your trust score is factored between 0-100 and a penalty happens at 65, it almost seems you need to get back to a 90 to lift the penalty. At least thats how it seems to be.

[d0rhk]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

Yep thats how it goes. I am constantly going through this. 1 site takes off making money and another gets penalized. Right now I have 3 sites that took big hits (basically gone) in the last month that were earning $500 a month between the 3 of them. The only thing I can say is build as many sites as you can. Try and vary the link building for each one a bit.

Although you want to believe the penalty is 1 thing it doesn't work like that. For example to you the only thing you see is "All these sites use BMR". The algorithm might see

1 - Each page has high keyword density
2 - Each page has similar slightly unnatural link portfolio
3 - Anchor text is not varied very much
4 - Content is not as unique as competing pages

Then the algo factors all this into a trust score and, 1 last straw pushes that trust score below the line and BAM… penalized. It could be as simple as a teetering trust score and 1 too many similar anchor text links. Don't ever think its one thing. It never usually is. Now the big problem is lifting a penalty is much harder then getting one. Lets say your trust score is factored between 0-100 and a penalty happens at 65, it almost seems you need to get back to a 90 to lift the penalty. At least thats how it seems to be.

Okay i've been into IM and google and seo for a couple years now, and i've seen people talk about ALL SORTS of made up stuff.

This is the first time i've EVER seen someone talk about google having a "trust scale" for your website, and if you have 1 to many links with the same anchor text it changes this trust score? Why would google ever even have to "trust" anyones site?

I could just be out of the loop on this or something but could you show me a post on the google blog or someone that works at google quoting this in a video?

I'm sick and tired of people just posting what seems to be literally stuff they make up on the spot.

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by d0rhk

Okay i've been into IM and google and seo for a couple years now, and i've seen people talk about ALL SORTS of made up stuff.

This is the first time i've EVER seen someone talk about google having a "trust scale" for your website, and if you have 1 to many links with the same anchor text it changes this trust score? Why would google ever even have to "trust" anyones site?

I could just be out of the loop on this or something but could you show me a post on the google blog or someone that works at google quoting this in a video?

I'm sick and tired of people just posting what seems to be literally stuff they make up on the spot.

???

Google`s Trust Rank and Hilltop Algorithms

Heres one reference to it, if you need more just search "Google trust score", "Google trust rank", "Google authority score" ect...

I am not saying anything as gospel here buddy. This also isn't just made up stuff. Trust score, authority whatever you want to call it is very real. How do you think Google determines rankings?

The algo weighs tons and tons of different elements... thats all I am saying. It obviously has a threshold in which it penalizes sites and my point being is that if you think its for 1 reason then you aren't understanding how things work with algorithms. Maybe my point about 1 anchor text over the limit may be pushing it but I personally I don't think so.

So many people think penalties are because of 1 thing. Its a sites "Trust" that determines these things. Thats why a site ranking #1 for "Auto Insurance" can't be penalized with a huge Xrumer blast. Google weighs a ton of factors and if all other things line up nicely then they'll dismiss the Xrumer blast but a site with a sketchy past can get blown out of the water if you hit it hard with links.

The brilliance of an algorithm is all about how it can weigh so many different elements. That is why if I build 2 links to my site and jump up the rankings and you build those same 2 you might not. There are so many different elements involved.

I am not saying you have to take everything I say as absolute truth but I think the idea that the algorithm weighs many elements and determines an overall site score is pretty accurate.

[Fallen_Angel]

I do not use bmr and 3 days ago 3 of my websites all dropped badly. All were on first page for keywords. All have unique content. Luckily, 60% of my traffic is from social bookmarking sites. I target groups on social sites and build followings from interested users. My income over past few days has dropped though.

[JamesGw]

Make sure to check your anchor text and whatnot. If it's too uniform then that might have caused you to incur at least some sort of penalty. Algo change is also possible.

[36burrows]

I'm in the process of building 5 new links to each page that got dropped using Blog Blueprint.

We'll see what happens from here...

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

I'm in the process of building 5 new links to each page that got dropped using Blog Blueprint.

We'll see what happens from here...

What has usually helped my sites come back is going through each page and making sure the content is as good as it can be. Maybe add a few videos and images, spice things up a bit.

Combine pages that are too similar (this has been a big part of penalties lately). If you have a page like "foot fungus in men over 40" and "foot fungus in men over 30" just make 1 big informative page "foot fungus in men" and 301 the other pages there. The page combining thing has been the single most effective thing ive done to pull sites out of penalties. I think Google has been clamping down on sites that are trying to rank different pages for slightly different keyword phrases. Just my 2 cents but all this has helped me get my pages back to where they were and sometimes even better.

[Masterminding]

Now this sounds like a challenge! Here are several things I would do if I were you:

1) You mentioned authority sites. Well, they certainly don't have 30 pages. Authority sites have hundreds, thousands or millions of pages. Plus, how long are your pages? I've seen many a study (try Seomoz for example) where longer posts tend to outperform shorter ones in the ranking. I hear people complain about 600 words, but uhm... I write 1,000-2,000 words per article and never see my rankings drop. I'm almost always on page 1 too...

2) Interlinking: are pages from site A that you own supported by site B that you own, and so on and so forth? Google doesn't like that very much as it's artificial linkbuilding: gaining value by linking from one of your sites to the other. Sure, some links won't hurt... but hundreds or thousands will.

3) Linkprofile: do you always get links from the same sources? And when you get links, is the link text always the same? And when you get links, are they on the homepage of that site, 1 level deep, 2 levels? In short: if it doesn't look natural, you get your but kicked.

4) Quality: don't know who said it that Google looking at site trust is a bunch of baloney, but guess what the Panda update was? It was the first use of a self-learning mechanism to ensure quality in the search results, meaning sites give off a certain set of signals if they're of high quality and the algorhytm now refines this set of signals itself similarly to how Yandex the Russian search engine works. Don't believe me? Google Yandex, Panda update and go through the seotheory posts and seomoz posts. BTW: they started the learning by checking sites for quality by hand, looking for answers to questions like would you give your creditcard info to this site?

5) Advertising: more ads influences rankings in a negative way.

6) Occam's razor: sometimes the biggest problems are caused by the smallest things. Is your sitemap still up-to-date? Does your robots.txt still tell Google to index your pages? Is there no no-follow or canonical crap in the header of the entire site?

This should help

[RevSEO]

Remember that the overall value of BMR links diminish over time. The value of these blog networks come from the domains and as the blog posts get farther and farther back in the blogs "archives" the lower and lower the overall value of the links.

BMR requires you to continually feed the "beast" in order to maintain its rankings. Of course BMR wasn't designed like that, but its just the nature of the search engine algos.

I've also seen where BMR posts get deindexed, even though the blogs haven't been. Usually as a result of lack of backlinks across the entire blog and not enough "linkjuice" or "content" to sustain it being indexed.

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by RevSEO

Remember that the overall value of BMR links diminish over time. The value of these blog networks come from the domains and as the blog posts get farther and farther back in the blogs "archives" the lower and lower the overall value of the links.

BMR requires you to continually feed the "beast" in order to maintain its rankings. Of course BMR wasn't designed like that, but its just the nature of the search engine algos.

I've also seen where BMR posts get deindexed, even though the blogs haven't been. Usually as a result of lack of backlinks across the entire blog and not enough "linkjuice" or "content" to sustain it being indexed.

This is my best guess, is that the links have been devalued in some way.

I'm now building 5 new links to each page using Blog Blueprint, hopefully it comes back!!

[RevSEO]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

This is my best guess, is that the links have been devalued in some way.

I'm now building 5 new links to each page using Blog Blueprint, hopefully it comes back!!

Not sure what blog blueprint is.

I'd focus on your on-site factors just as much as your offsite factors. A lot of the algorithm updates have been focused on on-site factors, than the offsite.

You mentioned that you pull in Youtube videos to your blog. Many autoblogging plugins do the same, they provide little "original" content that Youtube doesn't already have. Which is why Google would discount sites that are full of this sort of thing.

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by RevSEO

Not sure what blog blueprint is.

I'd focus on your on-site factors just as much as your offsite factors. A lot of the algorithm updates have been focused on on-site factors, than the offsite.

You mentioned that you pull in Youtube videos to your blog. Many autoblogging plugins do the same, they provide little "original" content that Youtube doesn't already have. Which is why Google would discount sites that are full of this sort of thing.

It's a blog network service similar to BMR.

Also, the youtube videos aren't on these sites, only on a few micro niche sites.

[LiamP]

update table WEBSITES
set SITE_STATUS = "DEINDEXED"
where
NUMBER_OF_POSTS_WITH_ONLY_150_WORDS > 95%
and
NUMBER_OF_POSTS_WITH_PICTURES < 1%
and
NUMBER_OF_POSTS_WITH_VIDEOS < 1%
and
NUMBER_OF_DAILY_POSTS > 5
and
LINKS_PER_150_WORDS = 1
and
NO_COMMON_SUBJECT_THEME = "TRUE"

They say BMR sites don't leave a footprint, but to me they do. How many genuine sites have the above criteria?

[ysb888]

This week I just outrank 2 of my competitor (they use BMR) in Career niches. Anyways, I don't use BMR
and there is still 4 more competitor currently rank above me, 2 of them (no 1 and 2) are also using BMR .

[JimmyR]

@36burrows I noticed you said you have a bit of an autoblog going on. I've recently noticed some of my WPRobot blogs take a smashing as well. Mine was more like position 1-2 to page 10 though

[Justin Lewis]

Originally Posted by LiamP

update table WEBSITES
set SITE_STATUS = "DEINDEXED"
where
NUMBER_OF_POSTS_WITH_ONLY_150_WORDS > 95%
and
NUMBER_OF_POSTS_WITH_PICTURES < 1%
and
NUMBER_OF_POSTS_WITH_VIDEOS < 1%
and
NUMBER_OF_DAILY_POSTS > 5
and
LINKS_PER_150_WORDS = 1
and
NO_COMMON_SUBJECT_THEME = "TRUE"

They say BMR sites don't leave a footprint, but to me they do. How many genuine sites have the above criteria?

This is why I don't trust any type of software out there like BMR or 1WayLinks. I'm not absolutely against them if used properly, but most people out there abuse them.

I would actually prefer to see websites using these types of methods fall off of Google, but that's my own opinion and I hold nothing personal against others who use them.

If the search engine algorithm is so "amazing", then why is it that I can blast a website with 50,000 blog comments (only for testing a few months ago) and have the website rank highly? That same website hasn't lost rankings either. I just feel that's poor search engine(ship)

Anyways, sucks to see that your websites fell off of rankings but I really hope you are using other methods to build backlinks to your website that aren't automated. Even though they may be quite amazing, they can also destroy your business in the longrun.

[Clyde]

^^ BMR is as legit as you can get when it comes to linkbuilding.

[oldvintageguy]

Originally Posted by ysb888

This week I just outrank 2 of my competitor (they use BMR) in Career niches. Anyways, I don't use BMR
and there is still 4 more competitor currently rank above me, 2 of them (no 1 and 2) are also using BMR .

Can you please PM me with what you do? (You said what you don't use, I would like your suggestions)?

[UMS]

Just checked the ranking of one of my sites that I've used BMR on (and nothing else for the past couple of weeks).

My two main keywords have gone from #4 and #2 to #1
And all my other keywords are either static or have had slight rises.

Very happy.

[Jacko]

Yeah, it's quite difficult to come to conclusions in so short time.
Of course changing ideas and checking similar behaviours
can help.

I've noticed some drop on my websites with BMR too...

[theverysmartguy]

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

This is why I don't trust any type of software out there like BMR or 1WayLinks. I'm not absolutely against them if used properly, but most people out there abuse them.

I would actually prefer to see websites using these types of methods fall off of Google, but that's my own opinion and I hold nothing personal against others who use them.

If the search engine algorithm is so "amazing", then why is it that I can blast a website with 50,000 blog comments (only for testing a few months ago) and have the website rank highly? That same website hasn't lost rankings either. I just feel that's poor search engine(ship)

Anyways, sucks to see that your websites fell off of rankings but I really hope you are using other methods to build backlinks to your website that aren't automated. Even though they may be quite amazing, they can also destroy your business in the longrun.

For starters, BMR is not a software. It is a website that you submit your content to for backlinks. And yes, a website technically is software, but not in the same sense as other type of link building software.

Because of how they run things it is pretty hard if not impossible to abuse BMR. A max of 10 links per day will go live to any single website ( if you have 5 websites that would be 50 links, 10/site); there is no link blasting with BMR.

BMR also is selective about the type of sites they allow into the program in which they will link to. Each site is manually reviewed.

Anyways, Yes I do think that BMR is one of the best link building systems around. It gives me good results, and that is what matters to me.

-- Jeff

[Egrove Systems]

BMR is excellent software. No more idea about that.

[mrehan]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

???

Google`s Trust Rank and Hilltop Algorithms

Heres one reference to it, if you need more just search "Google trust score", "Google trust rank", "Google authority score" ect...

I am not saying anything as gospel here buddy. This also isn't just made up stuff. Trust score, authority whatever you want to call it is very real. How do you think Google determines rankings?

The algo weighs tons and tons of different elements... thats all I am saying. It obviously has a threshold in which it penalizes sites and my point being is that if you think its for 1 reason then you aren't understanding how things work with algorithms. Maybe my point about 1 anchor text over the limit may be pushing it but I personally I don't think so.

So many people think penalties are because of 1 thing. Its a sites "Trust" that determines these things. Thats why a site ranking #1 for "Auto Insurance" can't be penalized with a huge Xrumer blast. Google weighs a ton of factors and if all other things line up nicely then they'll dismiss the Xrumer blast but a site with a sketchy past can get blown out of the water if you hit it hard with links.

The brilliance of an algorithm is all about how it can weigh so many different elements. That is why if I build 2 links to my site and jump up the rankings and you build those same 2 you might not. There are so many different elements involved.

I am not saying you have to take everything I say as absolute truth but I think the idea that the algorithm weighs many elements and determines an overall site score is pretty accurate.

You my friend make a lot of sense ,where I cant say the same for some people here. I too have a 30+ page site that that was ranking for keywords that I had not even built links too. I assume must be because of my trust rank. Then I did some some silly backlinking on MAN in June ( 2 articles everyday, and most of the pages and KWs disappeared off the 1st page by about 3 weeks. Now only a handful a still ranking but not the kind that bring in the dough. Now I am planning to switch Article Ranks and submit 1 article every other day to steady the link building. Any other advise?

[retsced]

It's sad to hear all your sites rankings have dropped man. I have no definitive answers to why that has happened but all i can say is that 1 of my competitive keywords took a jump from 6th to 1st position in google the other day out of the blue. I haven't built any backlinks to that keyword for two weeks so was really surprised that it jumped straight to position 1.

The only thing i can think of is some algo change as i have done nothing recently to warrant that jump.

[martyJames]

I use BMR - no change in rankings

[ahefner33]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

All of my sites are on the same host. I don't want to pay for another host when Hostgator lets me use unlimited domains.

No spun content, I stay away from that stuff.

This really sucks though, everything I've worked for is gone.

I was on the cusp of making it full-time and now I may as well beg for change in the grocery store parking lot.

Are they all linked via G Analytics or Webmaster Tool?

[cooler1]

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

If the search engine algorithm is so "amazing", then why is it that I can blast a website with 50,000 blog comments (only for testing a few months ago) and have the website rank highly? That same website hasn't lost rankings either. I just feel that's poor search engine(ship)

Anyways, sucks to see that your websites fell off of rankings but I really hope you are using other methods to build backlinks to your website that aren't automated. Even though they may be quite amazing, they can also destroy your business in the longrun.

If Google were to penalize sites for mass blog commenting then anyone could just do it to their competitors site so it wouldn't make any sense.

What type of blog comments did you make? Were they just generic spam comments? I don't know how Google could determine the value of those comments because they'd have to analyze the text on each blog.

I thought that was up to the blog owners and anti-spam plugins to deal with spammy comments so people don't get backlinks from them, not Google.

[kalle82]

I use senuke(and manual link building), and I have had my sites on the first page for like 6 months... I'm in the coupons nice... Yesterday the 28th septmeber 2011, I got hit really really hard taking my serp rankings for most of my sites down to 100 to 400. I also almost had this as a fulltime occupation, now it's back where I once started... ;( sucks, and I did not do anything stupid.. I have evolved my senuke method and varied my link sources senuke/manual link building. Only thing i can think of is that the content on some pages are 3 weeks old..

[36burrows]

Originally Posted by ahefner33

Are they all linked via G Analytics or Webmaster Tool?

Yes they all have this

[swym]

Originally Posted by ahefner33

Are they all linked via G Analytics or Webmaster Tool?

It is better not to add all sites to these tools?

[Clyde]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

Yes they all have this

Ahh, let me guess, they all use the same Analytics account, the same Google webmaster account and are hosted on the same IP.

Hopefully it wasn't a manual review otherwise you would have to submit a reconsideration request.

Are they all high quality?

[kindsvater]

Originally Posted by 36burrows

Yes they all have this

There are various reports of late about all sites linked in a G account, and only those sites, suffering rankings drops.

Since you're building new sites, don't add them to your account. See what happens.

This probably has nothing to do with BMR. But you've told Google 1 person owns several sites. If Google has issues with one or a couple, all of them are at risk.

.