Questions about duplicate content from articles on my sites and on linking pages

[Dani723]

I'd really appreciate some feedback here, because my sites have mostly suffered since the Farmer update and I've lost most of my income!

I was reckless with site content, I used programs like WProbot andjnn Blogsensen to generate content automatically on my sites. I know it was stupid, but many people said that these services were worth it for people with a lot of sites to manage, whom can't handle constantly creating their own new, unique content for all of them. Regularly added content seemed like a good move.

After the Farmer update my sites have often been dropping suddenly out of ranking for all keywords, completely, for several months, not the typical 'Google dance' up and down.

Anyway, now I've removed all the non-unique content from my sites and 301 redirected all pages to the homepage, and I'm only going to use my own articles or articles I get people to write for me from now on.

One question I have is, should I get these unique articles spun and then use spun versions of them to build links, in SEO tools like SEnukeX and AMR that I use?

My concern is that I've already done this for some of the unique articles that are still on my sites, so now, if I put that article in Copyscape, it's shown elsewhere on the net, usually with about 40% match in content. Are Google punishing me for this already? Should I remove these articles from my site as well and only use articles that have never ever been posted anywhere else?

And a related question, after getting some of these articles of mine spun, I've posted different spun versions of them on several sites of mine about the same subject matter which, again, have about a 40% match to each other. Do you think Google is punishing me for this as well?

Thanks very much to anyone that can help me clear up this confusion!

[Alexa Smith]

Hi Dani,

This little article will help you to understand what "duplicate content" is: Article Marketers - Lay the Duplicate Content Myth To Rest Once and For All | Internet Marketing and Publishing

And this thread will help you to understand why "spinning" articles is neither necessary nor helpful: Article Marketing: is the spin really necessary?

This short thread from yesterday may possibly help a little, too: Article Spinning Infinity paradox

[Dani723]

Thanks for the links, I'm having a read.

I understand that sometimes Google chooses just one version to index, and some people say that the most harm that can come of duplicate content is that an article goes in the supplemental index.

I've heard people saying duplicate content penalty is a myth but I suppose I've always been weary of that opinion. Now I see from one of the links you've shown me some information straight from the Gs mouth. Very enlightening.

But the Farmer update was targeted to catch out people like me! People that were running autoblogs. So how do they identify an autoblog?

Surely one way is if it has a great deal of duplicate content, as well as a lot of advertisements. I realise the quality of the writing is also an important factor, and another good reason to not use automatically generated content, or to use spinning as well, I suppose!

[Dani723]

So I could safely submit exactly the same articles, unspun to multiple of my sites? The only issue arises from duplicate content within a domain?

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by Dani723

So I could safely submit exactly the same articles, unspun to multiple of my sites? The only issue arises from duplicate content within a domain?

By George, I think she's got it!

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by Dani723

I understand that sometimes Google chooses just one version to index

No; this is wrong.

Sometimes (not always!) Google chooses just one version to index in the main index and all the other copies go in the supplemental index instead, where their backlinks carry just the same weight but they're not going to get traffic.

Originally Posted by Dani723

some people say that the most harm that can come of duplicate content is that an article goes in the supplemental index.

Again, Dani, what you're referring to isn't duplicate content.

Originally Posted by Dani723

I've heard people saying duplicate content penalty is a myth

Well, if you've read the stuff in the links above, you've now seen the statement from Google's WebMaster Blog: "We will not penalize your site for duplicate content". It doesn't come any more authoritative than that.

Originally Posted by Dani723

But the Farmer update was targeted to catch out people like me! People that were running autoblogs.

Yes, I think this is to some extent true.

And article directories, for the same reason.

What's happened here is that you're not getting any "SEO-credit" for the content you've syndicated to your site. It's not that you're being penalised for it, at all. Plenty of top-ranking sites carry plenty of syndicated content, and there's no downside to that at all, and absolutely NO reason to remove it. (Look at all the international news websites packed with content syndicated from Reuters and Associated Press - it's not doing them any harm, is it?).

What you need is some quality, fresh content with it.

Originally Posted by Dani723

So how do they identify an autoblog?

I'm not sure they care whether it's technically an "autoblog". As far as their algorithms are concerned, it's like an article directory, isn't it? Most of its content is previously published. Nothing wrong with that, no penalties for it, but not much reward, either.

Originally Posted by Dani723

Surely one way is if it has a great deal of duplicate content, as well as a lot of advertisements.

"Syndicated content", not "duplicate content".

That isn't the problem, I think. The problem is the lack of other content.

Originally Posted by Dani723

I realise the quality of the writing is also an important factor, and another good reason to not use automatically generated content, or to use spinning as well, I suppose!

Very much so, yes.

And becoming more and more so all the time.

And Google says this is part of an "ongoing process", and more is expected.

I don't know to what extent your on-site advertising might also be bad for SEO. Some people say it is. Some people say it will become increasingly bad for SEO (there've been a couple of threads discussing that point, over the last few days).

Originally Posted by Dani723

So I could safely submit exactly the same articles, unspun to multiple of my sites?

"Safely" in the sense of "being free from any penalty", yes: absolutely. That has always been the case.

But you won't (in theory) get any SEO benefit from that content (in reality you may get a little bit).

People who syndicate content (and I make a living from having mine syndicated) aren't doing so for any SEO benefit. They're doing so to benefit their readers.

To summarise: I think the key concept, here, to answer your original question, is that this has nothing to do with any "minus points" from Google at all: it's simply about the lack of "plus points". Your rankings aren't going to improve from removing the syndicated content, because that was never doing you any harm anyway. You just need some decent non-syndicated content (with or without the syndicated content), for Google to like the site for on-page SEO.

[jdjenkins]

Yes; it's the way press releases work, after all. Syndication of content does not need spinning of any kind, and obviously works very well, otherwise press release sites would start asking for unique content.

best wishes,

Jon.

Originally Posted by Dani723

So I could safely submit exactly the same articles, unspun to multiple of my sites? The only issue arises from duplicate content within a domain?

[Nicola Lane]

There is another thread from today that might interest you . . .

Duplicate Content. The Myths...

[Dani723]

Thanks then, I didn't expect a point-by-point response! You're certainly benefiting this reader!

I've spent a few hours swatting up on this now. I'm a bit embarrassed to have bothered ask this before fully researching it, I'm not usually that impatient, I just have a sense of frustration from the lose of rankings that's clouding my judgement somewhat.

Anyway, article syndication appears to be exactly what I'm looking for right now, as you've mentioned on some of your other posts, Alexa, just how beneficial you find it to have thousands of small sources of traffic rather than having an income that depends on the whims of big G!

I think the content being scraped may have been hurting my rankings though, rather than just being a neutral factor, because a lot of it was really badly written and full of advert links! Weighed again a handful of my own articles. Anyway, I got rid of all of it and I'm going to add plenty of new content of my own now.

When writing articles to go on multiple sites of the same niche, it might be useful to mark each article file name with the acronym of the website upon which it's been placed first, to get a good rotation of articles being added to the main index across all sites you own in that niche.

Does anyone worry about stuff like this?

I've noticed that you've recommended this 'TurnWordsIntoTraffic' system a couple of times. If you had to recommend just one guide to get on article syndication, would it be that one?

Beyond that, my method is to spot the people that really know what they're talking about on a subject, and then run a forum search of their posts. Saves all the devil's advocates and misinformation confusing everything totally. Could you possibly recommend to me whom the most trusted sources of information on article syndication on this forum are? So far I've found you, obviously, myob, JohnMccabe, Dire Straights. Any important ones to add to that list?

Thanks for all your precious time!

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by Dani723

When writing articles to go on multiple sites of the same niche, it might be useful to mark each article file name with the acronym of the website upon which it's been placed first

That will always be your own website, though. (Or do you mean "if you had two different websites in the same niche"?).

Originally Posted by Dani723

I've noticed that you've recommended this 'TurnWordsIntoTraffic' system a couple of times. If you had to recommend just one guide to get on article syndication, would it be that one?

Yes - although it's an "older ebook" it's really surprising how modern and relevant it is, "post-Panda".

Originally Posted by Dani723

Beyond that, my method is to spot the people that really know what they're talking about on a subject, and then run a forum search of their posts. Saves all the devil's advocates and misinformation confusing everything totally.

Absolutely. It was only when I learned to do this here, myself, three years ago, that I really started learning anything much that was reliably useful and translated into income and building a business.

Originally Posted by Dani723

Could you possibly recommend to me whom the most trusted sources of information on article syndication on this forum are? So far I've found you, obviously, myob, JohnMccabe, Dire Straights.

Ooh, it's one of those questions where you just know you're going to offend someone by leaving them out!

The others who spring immediately to mind are AnniePot, Nicola Lane, tpw, Richard Van, JayXtreme (mostly older posts - he was one of the people whose advice I followed, myself, albeit not so many posts of his specifically on this subject, perhaps: more "in general"). And of course various others who didn't spring immediately to mind only because my memory and concentration are absolutely dreadful, for which profuse apologies and absolutely no offense to anyone at all!!

[aaaa33030]

Yes google is punishing you for the 40% match spun articles

When someone is searching for content the site with the highest pagerank will pull up first on the search engines

[Rsberg]

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

"Syndicated content", not "duplicate content".

That isn't the problem, I think. The problem is the lack of other content.

I've done a lot of research on this (and have had several talks with other autobloggers about it as well) and from what we have learned it seems that a mix of at least 80/20 (syndicated content/unique) seems to greatly increase an autoblogs chances of maintaining rank (post panda/farmer) or increasing it...

It only makes sense that if this mix leaned higher toward the unique content side it would improve but there are several of us who are still using mostly syndicated content (percentage wise) and still ranking fine.

On a side note...

I've also talked to several WP Robot users who suffered rank loss post panda and the majority have said no matter what they do (short of deleting the plugin from a site) it seems they supposedly cant get the original rank back. I dont use it personally but with as many that have said its been an issue it might be time to dump it...just my opinion of course.

[Rsberg]

Originally Posted by aaaa33030

When someone is searching for content the site with the highest pagerank will pull up first on the search engines

Thats not true at all...

How many times have you conducted KW/niche research only to find low PR sites outranking higher PR sites? Both sites have content on them...

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by aaaa33030

When someone is searching for content the site with the highest pagerank will pull up first on the search engines

As Rsberg rightly says, this is completely wrong. Especially these days (and it's a growing tendency, too).

We can all easily verify for ourselves the regularity with which, in Google's SERP's, lower-PR pages with fewer incoming backlinks can outrank higher-PR pages with more backlinks.

The role that "page ranks" play in determining rankings is becoming less and less significant, year by year, almost month by month, "before our very eyes".

[JohnMcCabe]

I'm finding my self recommending two packages for those who really want to learn article marketing.

Turn Words Into Traffic by Jim Edwards

Content Cash by Paul Myers

Both are excellent, but together they're all you need to get started...

[Dani723]

Originally Posted by Nicola Lane

There is another thread from today that might interest you . . .

Duplicate Content. The Myths...

Thanks, I've seen that one, very useful. I've got about 9 tabs of WF threads open about this to get through! For a debate that appears to be over, it's certainly proving to be an endless one!

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Ooh, it's one of those questions where you just know you're going to offend someone by leaving them out!

Well thanks for answering in spite of that! I've made a note of them, what a time saver!

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

That will always be your own website, though. (Or do you mean "if you had two different websites in the same niche"?).

Yep, that's what I meant. I have 4 Wordpress blogs in my main niche.

Originally Posted by Rsberg

I've also talked to several WP Robot users who suffered rank loss post panda and the majority have said no matter what they do (short of deleting the plugin from a site) it seems they supposedly cant get the original rank back. I dont use it personally but with as many that have said its been an issue it might be time to dump it...just my opinion of course.

Hopefully I don't have to abandon all my sites, I've put a lot of work into it!

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

I'm finding my self recommending two packages for those who really want to learn article marketing.

Turn Words Into Traffic by Jim Edwards

Content Cash by Paul Myers

Both are excellent, but together they're all you need to get started...

Thanks, I'll look into both of those article marketing guides.

I've noticed that Google Webmaster tools reports duplicate title tags and descriptions. I've had a little read and the consensus, as far as I can tell, seems to be that having duplicates here isn't going to hurt your site much, but make every one of them unique and specific to the article anyway. Is that the best approach?

I also use the same 7-8 keyword meta tags on all my articles on some of my sites, because they are the only ones that see to get any noteworthy amount of traffic.

[Rsberg]

Originally Posted by Dani723

Hopefully I don't have to abandon all my sites, I've put a lot of work into it!

I didn't mean you would have to abandon your sites....just WP Robot, or at least that is what those people told me eventually fixed the issues.

Plugins are notorious for leaving footprints and are easily tracked, it's been said that WP Robot is one of the worst when it comes to this. Dumping the plugin from your site and adjusting its content seems to be the best fix for loss of rank on autoblogs that used it...according to what others have told me anyway.

Best of luck!

[Dani723]

Ah Great. Well I've fully deleted the plugin from my sites now, as well as a couple of other auto-content plugins I tried in the past, hopefully that'll help.

[Rsberg]

Since you are changing your approach (going the more conventional route with manual posting) it certainly wont hurt.

Good luck, let us know how this pans out for you in the future.

[GeorgR.]

One question I have is, should I get these unique articles spun and then use spun versions of them to build links, in SEO tools like SEnukeX and AMR that I use?

Easy answer: Yes

Spinning does NOT necessarily mean garbage, you can spin articles pretty well with the right tools. Don't use spun and copied content on YOUR own sites (big no-no, how would you expect to rank with a site consisting of "stolen" content?) - but for link building i think it's better to submit well spun articles.

[pinaar]

OK so it would seem that most of what I have been told over the last 18 months is a little wide of the mark. Article syndication rather than article directory marketing seems to make more sense. My question is, if a little daft to some, how does EZA or any other directory know that the exact article you have posted on your site and then to them is in fact your original content. I mean they will pick up that the content is already out there does it have to be credited under the same pen name that you use on EZA?

Also what is the best resource to learn more about article syndication?

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by pinaar

OK so it would seem that most of what I have been told over the last 18 months is a little wide of the mark. Article syndication rather than article directory marketing seems to make more sense. My question is, if a little daft to some, how does EZA or any other directory know that the exact article you have posted on your site and then to them is in fact your original content. I mean they will pick up that the content is already out there does it have to be credited under the same pen name that you use on EZA?

Yes. If the pen names don't match, they don't know who to believe is the original author. They will reject the article and leave it up to you to prove to them that the submission was legitimate.

Originally Posted by pinaar

Also what is the best resource to learn more about article syndication?

This forum has a bunch of threads that cover things in great detail. Alexa Smith does a fantastic job of linking the threads together. Find one of her link posts and explore away.

If you're looking for paid resources, I recommend two...

"Turn Words Into Traffic", by Jim Edwards. It's been around awhile, but with recent changes is more relevant than ever.

"Content Cash" by our own Paul Myers. For those who want the nitty-gritty, step-by-step for how to systemize content syndication, this is a must have.

[rob1123]

"Duplicate content doesn’t cause your site to be penalized. If duplicate pages are detected, one version will be returned in the search results to ensure variety for searchers."

From one of the links provided, Google have basically contradicted themselves here, if content is the same on your site as it is on ezines and several other directories only one is going to be shown in the serps, this means that if google prefers say ezines to your site (for whatever reason) you'll have absolutely no chance of ranking.

Having said that it could be easily resolved, when posting to article directories cut down the word length to a bear minimum and remove any unnecessary on page optimization.