LOL here is a good one for you (how important are EMDs) Proof they are not

[outwest]

My number one kw that I have been trying to rank for , for a year almost
for my resort

I even bought an EMD for that KW,
EMD(.NET)

The EMD was number 12, even with lots of backlinks and kw optimized

Now low and behold did the EMD go up? for that KW?
NOPE

Guess what happened
My main resort site is now number 2 for that kw (Yipee)

Btw
My main resort site Does Not have the kw in the domain, or the url
It does have the kw in the title, and some backlinks though

So much for how great EMDs are
My main resort site has more backlinks, I will grant you that,
and I think thats why now I rank so high for that kw, It has also been updated not very often , a few times, but more than the EMD has

The value of my EMD?? for that kw
worthless

Thats why I say you guys chasing EMDs are wasting your time and money

[MikeFriedman]

This proves nothing about EMDs. There are a ton of different ranking factors. Just an EMD alone is not a guarantee to a ranking on page one.

[outwest]

Then why bother with the EMD?
I dont have THAT many more backlinks on my main site than my EMD does, and I guarantee you the EMD is WAY more onsite SEO'd for the kw than my main site is, the only place the kw is on my main site is in the title, thats IT.

You guys who are so in love with EMDs just refuse to believe that they are not the holy grail

[mosthost]

EMDs stopped being effective late in 2009, IMHO. Still, in the backwaters of SEO they're still very popular.

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by outwest

Then why bother with the EMD?
I dont have THAT many more backlinks on my main site than my EMD does, and I guarantee you the EMD is WAY more onsite SEO'd for the kw than my main site is, the only place the kw is on my main site is in the title, thats IT.

You guys who are so in love with EMDs just refuse to believe that they are not the holy grail

I never said they were the holy grail. I said the opposite in fact. An EMD alone will not put you on page one for most SERPs.

Just because one site has more backlinks than another site does not prove anything either. There could be a vast difference in the quality of the backlinks.

And if you really want to prove this, find 10, 20, 50, or more examples of this with a useful way to measure both the quality and quantity of the backlinks, the onpage factors, the content of the pages, etc. Then you can say whether or not EMDs play a role.

One example, a bad one at that, does not prove anything.

[outwest]

If EMDs are so effective, that means that the EMD alone carries a lot of weight

whenever you guys are challenged on this, you start backtracking and saying, well wait a minute, what about all the other SEO factors

yes exactly
High PR backlinks and anchor text with the kws in the anchor text IMO is the NUMBER one ranking factor, along with ONPAGE SEO

EMD has zippo to do with it

thats why my main site, (not an EMD) (very poor ONPAGE SEO for the kw)
easily outranked the EMD

because the EMD
means squat

[tebor79]

Having an EMD has at least as much influence as having your KW on some random place on your page.
Or google wouldn't bold the kw's in the URLs of search result's, right?

[outwest]

bolding the kws is an algorithm that just does that as a default to help the person browsing

has nothing to do with the importance of kws in that location in ranking factor

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by outwest

If EMDs are so effective, that means that the EMD alone carries a lot of weight

You are not paying attention. I never said that they were a miracle ranking mechanism. They do give a boost, but it's not a boost that cannot be overcome.

Nobody, who is not an idiot, has ever said that an EMD is necessary to be #1, like you seem to be insinuating.

Originally Posted by outwest

High PR backlinks and anchor text with the kws in the anchor text IMO is the NUMBER one ranking factor, along with ONPAGE SEO

I disagree about the anchor text. I have #1 rankings for some keywords where I do not have a single backlink with anchor text matching that keyword. You can find plenty of examples of this same thing. Someone yesterday in another thread posted the SERP "buy green tennis shoes". The #2 site does not have links with that anchor text in it. Explain that one.

Originally Posted by outwest

thats why my main site, (not an EMD) (very poor ONPAGE SEO for the kw) easily outranked the EMD because the EMD means squat

Unless you are going to provide the URLs of the sites, there is no point in even mentioning this.

[outwest]

Nobody said that EMD is the most important ranking factor, and I was not trying to insinuate this, take a chill pill

I am saying if its such an important ranking factor to GO OUT AND PURCHASE A DOMAIN WITH THAT NAME, you would think that there would be many instances where the EMD easily outranks other sites, with more powerful high PR backlinks
I have not seen this to be the case

and with my own sites
EMD has not helped AT ALL in ranking

UNLESS
the kw competition is EXTREMELY weak
which in that case, you can rank high regardless of domain name

as for the buy green tennis shoes example
thats ludicrous

if the competition on a kw is VERY WEAK
you can rank number one by almost breathing hard and saying the word out loud
no need for backlinks with the anchor text in the kw
Onpage SEO alone, along with internal linking and Silo structuring would be sufficient , if the competition was very weak

[MikeFriedman]

Ok. Just think of it this way. If everything else is equal... two sites have the same quality of backlinks, nearly identical content, same on page factors, etc., but one has an EMD and the other does not, which one ranks higher?

There is your answer.

Your one example (and again, a bad one at that), does not overrule what so many other people have found to be true.

[outwest]

You guys can make all the excuses you want

The proof to me is plain

I Really tried hard to rank my EMD top 10 for my kw, for a year, It did no good owning the EMD

Along comes my main Resort site (not an EMD) (No kw variation even, in the domain OR the url) (The site is NOT optimized for the kw) (the backlinks really are not that many with the anchor text in the kw, and they are low PR backlinks also, mostly PR0)

Yet the non optimized, non EMD Main site
catapulted to NUMBER 2 in the SERPS....................flying past the similarly backlinked EMD (and almost exact same age of sites )

So if that still fails to convince you that EMDs dont mean squat, you guys keep buying all those EMDs
hey more power to you. have fun paying 10 bucks a year for a domain for EACH KW you try to rank for

Makes no sense to me

[MikeFriedman]

You just said everything can't be equal, and then you go on to explain how everything is basically equal between your two sites except the one has worse onsite SEO and the other has an EMD.

Fine outwest. Based on your one example, you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

EMDs suck.

[outwest]

I said my sites are similar I did not say they were the same
obviously they have different content, different backlinks DUH
dont be ridiculous to try to prove your point

and I am not the only one that says EMDs are overrated
its just that you EMD cultists, pretty much ignore anything other than people saying how great they are

And I used to think the same way you guys think
However after observing about 10,000 kws in the google top 10 analysis, and also my own sites success or lack thereof for EMDs
I have concluded the "benefit" you get is negligable and certainly not worth focusing an entire domain on one kw

as I said if you guys want to buy a different domain for EACH kw you want to rank on
GO FOR IT
its your money and time, not mine

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by outwest

I said my sites are similar I did not say they were the same
obviously they have different content, different backlinks DUH
dont be ridiculous to try to prove your point

This is the point I have been trying to make the entire time. There are far too many variables for you to draw the conclusion that EMDs don't work. Even if their rankings were reversed, there are too many other factors to say that it is 100% proof that EMDs do work.

[outwest]

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

This is the point I have been trying to make the entire time. There are far too many variables for you to draw the conclusion that EMDs don't work. Even if their rankings were reversed, there are too many other factors to say that it is 100% proof that EMDs do work.

If there are so many variables how can you guys be confident that they DO work then?
You just defeated your own point

[MikeFriedman]

I guess in your research of 10,000 keywords you missed this one...

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&cp=8&g....,cf.osb&cad=b

[sgoerger]

EMD is clearly still a factor, from my experience and business. Is it big? Not so much. But it is a bonus, no doubt. One experience with one EMD does not make or break any rule.

The general relevance of a site clearly goes up if the domain name itself is devoted to the keyword term searched. It makes perfect sense for an algorithm to take that into account...and while I do believe Google has lessened this impact in recent years, I don't think it is completely wiped out by any stretch of the imagination.

[discustipated]

http://youtu.be/0aHknOVK-zQ - seomoz on anchor text

[Mike Anthony]

Outwest I own maybe 3 or 4 EMDs out of a whole bunch I have not numbered so I am not a blind advocate of EMDs. However you have a bee in your bonnet about EMDs and frankly you use poor logic.

You make ridiculous comments like EMDs have no significance etc. Too far is all. Using your logic in this thread if you do a search for "click here" it would prove that content is of no significant weight because Adobe manages to rank for that term without the keywords on page.

As a matter of fact there were some Yoyos that used to run around in here about two years back claiming just that - content does not matter its just links and they used that single example (despite the fact that that was always a very exclusive example that no one was ever going to reproduce because they don't own the world's most widely known online document viewer - adobe pdf)

Now you are not a Yoyo because there is a point to what you say but you are arguing like anyone believes that Google's algo is not a layered one. Sure you can overcome the effect of an EMD with a site that has more links but just like the "click here" example it does not mean tht EMDs have no boosting factor. It just means that in a layered algo with many factors you can overcome one with another.

[yukon]

The problem I have with most EMDs is I rank multiple keywords on the same domain (new keyword = new landing page).

It's when you start targetting more keywords that EMDs just start looking stupid, IMO.

If the EMD is redcars.com, then trying to rank the keyword blue cars is kinda lame as a user experience. So now you have a URL like redcars.com/blue-cars/ , something like that only makes sense If your name is Dr. Seuss (red fish, blue fish, lol).

What's the point of seo, If the traffic never returns because the site just doesn't make sense?

Now If you have an EMD like cars.com, that makes perfect sense IMO, for multiple keywords/pages like:

• cars.com/
  • cars.com/red-cars/
  • cars.com/blue-cars/
  • cars.com/yellow-cars/
  • cars.com/green-cars/

If your site has a total of 10 pages then none of this really matters, chances are you only care about a single keyword, which is a whole other subject (why limit yourself to a single keyword).

If the first keyword earns $1 a day, why not target 100 keywords at $100 per day per domain? Kinda makes most EMDs look silly when you really want to expand keywords.

[MikeFriedman]

Yukon,

Whether or not they work and whether or not they are useful are two different arguments.

I agree with you. I don't put too much stock into their value.

However, I have no doubt that they work.

[InTheMaking]

Originally Posted by outwest

My number one kw that I have been trying to rank for , for a year almost
for my resort

I even bought an EMD for that KW,
EMD(.NET)

The EMD was number 12, even with lots of backlinks and kw optimized

Now low and behold did the EMD go up? for that KW?
NOPE

Guess what happened
My main resort site is now number 2 for that kw (Yipee)

Btw
My main resort site Does Not have the kw in the domain, or the url
It does have the kw in the title, and some backlinks though

So much for how great EMDs are
My main resort site has more backlinks, I will grant you that,
and I think thats why now I rank so high for that kw, It has also been updated not very often , a few times, but more than the EMD has

The value of my EMD?? for that kw
worthless

Thats why I say you guys chasing EMDs are wasting your time and money

#1 - From your logic, you don't know much about SEO (not saying I know everything either)
#2 - so many factors could play into ranking above an EMD
#3 - quit making threads like this..
#4 - this thread is a reason why I never check out Warriorforum anymore.

[yukon]

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Yukon,

Whether or not they work and whether or not they are useful are two different arguments.

I agree with you. I don't put too much stock into their value.

However, I have no doubt that they work.

I know I drifted a bit on the subject, still seo & user experiance need to play well with each other.

Some folks on this forum just go balls out trying to stuff the keyword in the domain name then it just starts getting crazy:

chicago-style-pizza-is-better-than-new-york-style-pizza.com

It's like they can't build the site because all the .com .net .org EMDs are already taken, I'm sure you've seen similar forum threads, it's just crazy what people get hooked on. I say just build an internal page & be done with it.

Now I'm hungry talking about pizza domains.

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by yukon

I know I drifted a bit on the subject, still seo & user experiance need to play well with each other.

Some folks on this forum just go balls out trying to stuff the keyword in the domain name then it just starts getting crazy:

chicago-style-pizza-is-better-than-new-york-style-pizza.com

It's like they can't build the site because all the .com .net .org EMDs are already taken, I'm sure you've seen similar forum threads, it's just crazy what people get hooked on. I say just build an internal page & be done with it.

Now I'm hungry talking about pizza domains.

I completely agree. The offline market is the worse. Idiot IM'ers buy some WSO and now think they are qualified to handle offline clients. Then you end up with pizza joints with websites like that.

I actually met with someone last week that had a URL like that. Their last "online guy" told them to abandon their old domain which was their brand name because it was not "SEO optimized". Absolutely retarded. I was stunned.

[outwest]

Originally Posted by InTheMaking

#1 - From your logic, you don't know much about SEO (not saying I know everything either)
#2 - so many factors could play into ranking above an EMD
#3 - quit making threads like this..
#4 - this thread is a reason why I never check out Warriorforum anymore.

Wish we could all be SEO gurus like you

Man I could kick myself for not understanding just how valuable EMDs are
I got to get searching now, thanks for explaining that to me

[InTheMaking]

Originally Posted by outwest

Wish we could all be SEO gurus like you

Man I could kick myself for not understanding just how valuable EMDs are
I got to get searching now, thanks for explaining that to me

don't kick yourself, go out and actually test something.. then make some monies with proven techniques that work.

then join a few other forums where you'd get beaked to sh*t with these threads/posts.

Not worth my time, and yours creating these.

P.S - read my post, did you miss the "I don't know everything either".

[lovboa]

I'm still on the fence with all the debate..it seems like there is a healthy thread on this topic at least once a month here.

I just came upon this site site which is sitting at #2 on Google.
Search Google for "how does craigslist make money"

I don't have the proper research softwares to understand this (since Yahoo site explorer is gone now )
Could somebody explain how this site is sitting at #2 spot besides by having the EMD?

BTW...the site is howdoescraigslistmakemoney.com/

[outwest]

Originally Posted by InTheMaking

don't kick yourself, go out and actually test something.. then make some monies with proven techniques that work.

then join a few other forums where you'd get beaked to sh*t with these threads/posts.

Not worth my time, and yours creating these.

P.S - read my post, did you miss the "I don't know everything either".

Dont get too excited, In case you didnt notice (you didnt)
I was being sarcastic

[outwest]

LOL this is like the Democrates and Republicans arguing, nobody seems to change their mind

All I know is, whether it be from EMD or from backlinking, whatever path, My main site is number 2 now on my dream KW where it was number 12 about a month ago.

The resort is booked solid because of this
so I am happy

Have a happy turkey Day

[MikeFriedman]

outwest,

Your keyword is still "Batangas Beach Resorts", right?

[theverysmartguy]

When I purchase a domain I do keep the topic I want the website in mind for the potential URL. Out of pure luck it looks like an EMD, except that it has other words in it, usually at the end.

Now, there are certain keywords that I won't buy as a URL; anything way to specific is definitely out.

The keyword I choose for my domains is as general as I can get it for that SPECIFIC topic, but of course it does have a generous search volume to go along with it.

I Do this so that I won't be hindered on what I can write about on that topic. If I created a website like: fastbluecars.com, then I will be limited to writing about blue cars that go fast. If I want to write about other kinds of cars then I would have to create a new website.

Well lets say that I just want to write about fast cars in general, no matter the colour. Then I would buy a domain that mentions fast cars; fastcars.com, listoffastcars.com, etc etc. Or at least something along those lines.

Even though I prefer that the keywords that I put in the title have a good search volume, I don't rely on having an EMD like domain to get me my rankings.

Do EMDs help in rankings? Yes, but how much? Not as much as the fanatics think, and better than the naysayers say.

Now, if you are a business, and you want to BRAND yourself, well then that is something entirely different. You would have the main URL as your company name, or whichever one you wanted to brand. You don't need to go changing your website into a nondescript generalized site, just for SEO purposes.

-- Jeff

[wolfmmiii]

Originally Posted by yukon

It's when you start targetting more keywords that EMDs just start looking stupid, IMO.

If the EMD is redcars.com, then trying to rank the keyword blue cars is kinda lame as a user experience. So now you have a URL like redcars.com/blue-cars/ , something like that only makes sense If your name is Dr. Seuss (red fish, blue fish, lol).

What's the point of seo, If the traffic never returns because the site just doesn't make sense?

This really is the crux of it and it's why I moved away from EMDs long ago.

[Goath]

EMD are sometimes still effective.

[wolfmmiii]

Originally Posted by Goath

EMD are sometimes still effective.

I agree but they are far from COST-effective.

[Iain Key]

I find post-panda that EMD is effective in a low competition niche but only as effective as having the keyword in a H1 title.

[bnetwork]

Originally Posted by wolfmmiii

I agree but they are far from COST-effective.

1. Buy 5 high traffic EMDs.
2. Build five 10 page sites.
3. Blast the **** out of them get to #1 or at least top 3 in under 4 weeks.
4. Slap Adsense on them.
5. Sell them at $500-$1000 per site.

Total cost to build all five sites $500~$800. Revenue ~$3750. Time spent ~2 days.

Personally done this (on a much larger scale) many times over (recently as well).

No, not cost effective at all. EMDs don't work, don't buy them.

[yukon]

Originally Posted by bnetwork

1. Buy 5 high traffic EMDs.
2. Build five 10 page sites.
3. Blast the **** out of them get to #1 or at least top 3 in under 4 weeks.
4. Slap Adsense on them.
5. Sell them at $500-$1000 per site.

Total cost to build all five sites $500~$800. Revenue ~$3750. Time spent ~2 days.

Personally done this (on a much larger scale) many times over (recently as well).

No, not cost effective at all. EMDs don't work, don't buy them.

So you wouldn't be able to sell the same sites or rank in the SERPs without the EMDs?

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by yukon

So you wouldn't be able to sell the same sites or rank in the SERPs without the EMDs?

I completely agree with you Yukon.

However, if you are creating a site with the whole intention of flipping it, EMDs have a perceived value (whether it is justified or not) that will increase the price you can sell the site for. So in that case, I would absolutely go after an EMD if it is available.

Same thing with .info's in the flipping world. .info's have a perceived lower value (again whether it is real or not), and generally sell for less than the identical .com would.

[yukon]

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I completely agree with you Yukon.

However, if you are creating a site with the whole intention of flipping it, EMDs have a perceived value (whether it is justified or not) that will increase the price you can sell the site for. So in that case, I would absolutely go after an EMD if it is available.

Same thing with .info's in the flipping world. .info's have a perceived lower value (again whether it is real or not), and generally sell for less than the identical .com would.

Lol, I know.

It's funny how buyers focus on different little things like EMDs in the IM world.

If they can turn a profit on a domain for the simple fact that's in an EMD, hat's off to them.

[rob1123]

I've not read through this thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned but of course EMDs are important, if somebody is going to link to your site do you think they will bother doing ahref and including your KW? No, they are just going to copy and paste the address from their browser

[InTheMaking]

Originally Posted by yukon

Lol, I know.

It's funny how buyers focus on different little things like EMDs in the IM world.

If they can turn a profit on a domain for the simple fact that's in an EMD, hat's off to them.

Personally i feel as if it's safer to run 10-20 small websites, not MFA's (I'm trying to get away from adsense) but small 5-10 pagers.

Why? Because you don't have all of your eggs in one basket. If another google algo update comes around and 3 of my websites get hit, woopty doo. If your 1-2 sites get hit, that's almost 100% loss of income.

Aslong as a website provides value to it's users there's nothing wrong with it. My brother runs huge website's on EMD's targetting huge search terms. The only reason behind it is that EMD's give a ranking boost. They always have, and hopefully they always will.

[Mike Grant]

Originally Posted by InTheMaking

Personally i feel as if it's safer to run 10-20 small websites, not MFA's (I'm trying to get away from adsense) but small 5-10 pagers.

Why? Because you don't have all of your eggs in one basket. If another google algo update comes around and 3 of my websites get hit, woopty doo. If your 1-2 sites get hit, that's almost 100% loss of income.

Aslong as a website provides value to it's users there's nothing wrong with it. My brother runs huge website's on EMD's targetting huge search terms. The only reason behind it is that EMD's give a ranking boost. They always have, and hopefully they always will.

5-10 pagers are MFAs.

[bnetwork]

Originally Posted by yukon

So you wouldn't be able to sell the same sites or rank in the SERPs without the EMDs?

Of course I would, but it'd most likely take more than $50 to get #1 or #3 (depending on niche). Why do that if my sole intent is a quick sale - profit, rinse and repeat?

[InTheMaking]

Originally Posted by Mike Grant

5-10 pagers are MFAs.

lol, no they're not?

[yukon]

Originally Posted by InTheMaking

Personally i feel as if it's safer to run 10-20 small websites, not MFA's (I'm trying to get away from adsense) but small 5-10 pagers.

Why? Because you don't have all of your eggs in one basket. If another google algo update comes around and 3 of my websites get hit, woopty doo. If your 1-2 sites get hit, that's almost 100% loss of income.

Aslong as a website provides value to it's users there's nothing wrong with it. My brother runs huge website's on EMD's targetting huge search terms. The only reason behind it is that EMD's give a ranking boost. They always have, and hopefully they always will.

That's the difference right there, I rank landing pages, not Index pages.

Personally I could care less If my Index page was ever indexed or ranking in the SERPs as long as I have my keyword landing pages ranked.

I'm all for don't put all your eggs in one basket. I'm also all for, don't settle for less.

If keyword X is bringing in a consistent $10 per day on a single keyword/landing page I'll expand ASAP on the same domain in multiple related keywords without even thinking about creating a new domain.

If your site is indexed in the SERPs & you focus on landing pages instead of the Index page, it doesn't matter If a single keyword drops in the SERPs. I've never had Google tank an entire site. Landing pages fluctuate in the SERPs, but that's just competition per keyword/landing page.

I'm not putting down what you do with a small 5-10 page site, If you earn money with it, cool. Still, from my point of view your putting limits on yourself & your site by keeping the site confined to a single keyword (EMD).

Besides, my way has to be cheaper. Regardless of how many landing pages I build/rank it still cost me $10 per year for a single domain. Plus a heck of a lot easier to manage IMO (buying domains, setting up new sites/installs, etc...), just seams like a lot of extra work to me.

Again, If you own something like cars.com, now that's a kick @ss domain name, the differance is with a domain like that you can target thousands of keywords (besides cars) & the site would still make sense to traffic.

[MrWonton]

Why are you so passionate about disproving EMDs? Won't this thread just end up the same as your last?

EMDs are a myth

My main money sites totally disagree with your theory of EMDs being useless (as do the sites of countless other webmasters).

Just because you experience one thing, it doesn't make it solid fact. Why are you so blind to this?!

Originally Posted by MrWonton

I've got a .co.uk EMD ranking #1 for a term that sends me 2,500UVs every day. Only backlinking I've done is from my old pr0 blog that I never update, on the same IP. Ie, it's got about 7 worthless backlinks.

It beats a .gov website, as well as many other established high PR sites going after the same KWs.

I've been using EMDs to help with rankings for over 6 years.

EMD + Proper On-Page SEO = Massive advantage over the competition.

^ That site currently sends me ~4500 visitors a day. There's no way in hell it would have that ranking without the EMD. (Thats not to say that it isn't beatable with proper SEO).

Are EMDs essential? No
Do they help? Yes

But since "90% Of this board has no idea what they are doing", I assume you're going to disregard what the majority are saying anyway.