Possible to outrank the mother company?

[outwest]

I want to outrank a few companies on their home page

the kws I want to rank on get some pretty da*m good traffic as in 100s of thousands of LOCAL EXACT searches/month

I think I can easily get to #2 on most of these terms

The companys main domain url pops up as number one
these kws are not searching for that company they are searching for the company name then blah blah

Example

Macys weekly specials (sample kw I want to target)

so then #1 on Google is Macys.com

(this is a made up kw, just an example)

The store or manufacturer main site, may have 300,000 backlinks but
99 percent are not for THAT KW , (they are NOT targeting that kw)
and when I see them listed on top
mostly the onpage SEO is N N N N in Market Samurai

But then the domain is 15 yrs old PR6

But I still think I can outrank them on that term, If I have perfect onpage SEO, and Silo structure with maybe 10 subpages with variations of that kw
in the Silo

Plus tons of backlinks with related anchor text

What do you think?

[outwest]

Anyone?...............

[Peter1970]

Well, in your example, the domain name = brand name is also in the keyword you are competing for so if this site is old and has thousands of links (whatever the anchor text, probably many anchor texts will carry the brand name), it does seem natural that it is considered relevant for a keyword including it's domain name/brand name.
Have you checked the overall density of the remaining "week-end specials" at the competitor's site? It never appears?
If you work hard on "Macy's weekend specials", you should get somewhere, eventually...
There might be some legal implications on this in the future, the courts in Europe are handing down some worrying decisions regarding disloyal competition via SEO, especially when competing for a brand name keyword. This probably doesn't affect us right now but it could in the future.

[outwest]

Originally Posted by Peter1970

Well, in your example, the domain name = brand name is also in the keyword you are competing for so if this site is old and has thousands of links (whatever the anchor text, probably many anchor texts will carry the brand name), it does seem natural that it is considered relevant for a keyword including it's domain name/brand name.
Have you checked the overall density of the remaining "week-end specials" at the competitor's site? It never appears?
If you work hard on "Macy's weekend specials", you should get somewhere, eventually...
There might be some legal implications on this in the future, the courts in Europe are handing down some worrying decisions regarding disloyal competition via SEO, especially when competing for a brand name keyword. This probably doesn't affect us right now but it could in the future.

Well If I named the domain
MacysWeeklyspecials.com I would be worried

but just using the kw in the anchor text of the backlinks and titles of the pages etc I dont think they would challenge it

when is the last time you saw a company win a suit like that? I can remember it happening but its very rare

now since the kw Macys is copywrited using it in the domain? I would not risk, since they might be able to get your domain from you

but using store names in backlinks and in titles etc?: Millions of sites do that

My site might have a domain called storespecials.com or some similar name with no company copywrite in it

the Macys Store Specials would just be a highly backlinked inner page with Silo STructure
It would be a Silo Landing Page

[strategic seo services]

You can outrank any domain, if you have proper on page SEO & stronger backlinks than that domain.

[DynoMutt]

Go for it.

If the 1% of backlinks to a site like Macy's are anchored by the keyword you want to use, and those backlinks are weak, then you have a strong chance of reaching #1.

However...

I would not try to create a site like macysweeklyspecials.com. Primarily because of the legal issues. But secondly because of the loss of a great opportunity which is more cost and time effective.

Let me explain...

I've seen several websites where a person is trying to rank for a keyword like "Macy's weekly specials." In addition to putting that keyword as a domain name, they will create multiple pages for their site all centered around that keyword. This is an attempt to make the site like full. To me this is a waste of time.

My suggestion...

Create a site that establishes brand identity. Get a domain like insidescoop.com or smartshopping.com and then create just a single page entitled "macy's weekly specials." This is much more time effective as you only need one page. After all, it is the pages that get ranked.

It is also cost effective if you intend to do this with other stores. Instead of creating multiple domains, create multiple pages targeting different stores.

[digiscot]

You can outrank pretty much any site it all depends on the keywords you are going after how strong you seo and backlinking are

[outwest]

No I said I would NOT create a site Macysweeklyspecials.com
they could go after the domain,

I would have a site, weeklyspecials.com or Mystorespecials.com etc and use the Macys Weekly Specials as a sub page

mystorespecials.com/macys-weekly-specials.html and then backlink that heavily in a silo structure with good anchor text

[digiscot]

Good luck with it outwest, just do your research and get you seo and backlinking spot on and I am sure you will do great with it

[packerfan]

I'd be cautious about your ability to outrank a real brand, if the keyword has the real brand in it.

One thing of note in the google quality rating guide that caught my attention is that specific example is used. They talk about the importance of the brand page when search for a brand


So when people search for macy's weekly specials, the only correct #1 spot logically is a page on macy's site showing the macy weekly specials.


Guess it depends on how much you want to spend to find out.

[packerfan]

Originally Posted by strategic seo services

You can outrank any domain, if you have proper on page SEO & stronger backlinks than that domain.

Don't say this. Go outrank Facebook for the keyword Facebook.

Don't make broad statements like this that lead people in the wrong direction.

[outwest]

I really dont think this will be easy, but I think with enough work its possible

however looking back over my available kws to target I am going to concentrate on the terms that DONT have the main company url in 1,2 spots on google

its easier to rank for one thing
I actually do think I could outrank the mother company but
the amount of time it would take to do that , I dont know if I want to invest that

[Kris79]

Originally Posted by packerfan

I'd be cautious about your ability to outrank a real brand, if the keyword has the real brand in it.

One thing of note in the google quality rating guide that caught my attention is that specific example is used. They talk about the importance of the brand page when search for a brand

So when people search for macy's weekly specials, the only correct #1 spot logically is a page on macy's site showing the macy weekly specials.

Guess it depends on how much you want to spend to find out.

I agree that google might consider Macy's website more suitable for this keyword.
But I think this is not in every case. For example if somebody was trying to rank for "Macy's somethig reviews" Macy's site would not be the best solution.

The biggest problem are backlinks and anchor text. If you are targeting these keywords and brand name website do not, you might get a chance.

ps.
you don't have to be on the first spot of SERP to get the most visitors. Even if you are second but you place a video on your website than Google will show a thumbnail of this video in SERP and this will atract more visitors

Kris

[MemberWing]

Or even better:
macys.weeklyspecials.com/macys-weekly-specials
macys.weeklyspecials.com/macys-daily-specials
macys.weeklyspecials.com/macys-monthly-specials

And then evolve into:
target.weeklyspecials.com/target-weekly-specials
etc...

[packerfan]

Originally Posted by outwest

No I am not trying to outrank Macys for the kw Macys

I am trying to outrank Macys for the kw Macys weekly specials (all made up kws, but exactly the type of relationship of kws I am going up against)


There is no way you are outranking EMDs of major companies for their name of their company.
But if there was a term. Dell Computer Special Discounts 2012, unless Dell had a page optimized for that, you would have a good chance of outranking DELL on that, IMO

I know what you meant. But just think logically. What's the best possible page on the internet for Macy's weekly specials? That's the page Google wants to show, period.

Now, maybe you do something different, maybe you show all the weekly macy's specials from all 50 states every week. Now your site becomes a macy weekly specials site.

Then you might have a chance.

All I'm saying is that if you're going to target a real brand, in their core competency, it's not going to be easy.

Something like "blankets at Macy's" sure I suppose.

The real brands have a huge advantage. They have insane PR, and tons of real, natural links, and if necessary the budget to do what it takes to win.

If you're talking about a search term with 100s of thousands of exact searches, I think it's going to be hard, because the brand will fight for that traffic.

[outwest]

Originally Posted by packerfan

I know what you meant. But just think logically. What's the best possible page on the internet for Macy's weekly specials? That's the page Google wants to show, period.

Now, maybe you do something different, maybe you show all the weekly macy's specials from all 50 states every week. Now your site becomes a macy weekly specials site.

Then you might have a chance.

All I'm saying is that if you're going to target a real brand, in their core competency, it's not going to be easy.

Something like "blankets at Macy's" sure I suppose.

The real brands have a huge advantage. They have insane PR, and tons of real, natural links, and if necessary the budget to do what it takes to win.

If you're talking about a search term with 100s of thousands of exact searches, I think it's going to be hard, because the brand will fight for that traffic.

its hard to say

[packerfan]

Originally Posted by outwest

Yes you would think they will fight for that traffic but
if they did most would have a SEO optimized page for that kw

and I have found my main 3 mother sites, DONT have a page for the kw
they are too busy to be chasing every kw, and also their MAIN kw
the name of their company , gets 2 million searches /,mo so 150k/mo doesnt get their attention

It's not getting their attention right now because they rank #1. I guarantee you if they see a page take a 50-75% decrease in traffic on a keyword that gets 200,000 searches, they will notice.

These are real companies with real budgets, and real SEO teams (internal or external). If they see a huge drop from a keyword or page, they will know.

Not saying you should avoid it. But I'd much rather fight the smaller guys unless I have the budget to go to war with the big dogs.

[outwest]

Originally Posted by packerfan

It's not getting their attention right now because they rank #1. I guarantee you if they see a page take a 50-75% decrease in traffic on a keyword that gets 200,000 searches, they will notice.

These are real companies with real budgets, and real SEO teams (internal or external). If they see a huge drop from a keyword or page, they will know.

Not saying you should avoid it. But I'd much rather fight the smaller guys unless I have the budget to go to war with the big dogs.

David vs Goliath. Goliath usually wins

[paulgl]

Plenty, and I mean PLENTY of coupon and special sites
regularly outrank the home site for specials.

Question is, are you going to outrank sites like
groupon, spoofee, weeklyadcirculars, etc...

Hmmmm...notice the lack of much in the way
of keywords in those domains....?!?

That spoofee is a powerhouse.

Paul

[outwest]

Originally Posted by paulgl

Plenty, and I mean PLENTY of coupon and special sites
regularly outrank the home site for specials.

Question is, are you going to outrank sites like
groupon, spoofee, weeklyadcirculars, etc...

Hmmmm...notice the lack of much in the way
of keywords in those domains....?!?

That spoofee is a powerhouse.

Paul

as with anything there are no guarantees in life

[outwest]

Ok one term I found I really like very high monthly searches

yes one of those groupon type sites is number one
2600 backlinks

roughly 25% of them, I believe are this kw anchor text in some variation

I would say 99percent are PR0 though
yes its a subpage



beatable?

There is also another One I want to beat
main company domain is listed #1
1.4 million backlinks (I know but thats expected to the main domain)

the main domain has lots of high PR backlinks, lots of them
but hardly ANY backlinks are for this term, its just not targeted,