SEO Debate - The importance of having a good URL

[Alyona The Publicist]

Most other gurus may tell you that the shorter the web address is, the better you will get results in the search engines. This is utterly wrong, it is a known fact in the search engine optimization community that search engines, especially Google gives a lot of weight to the name of the web site and associates keywords with it that would otherwise not be of any importance. Therefore a shorter url is bound to create problems for you.

So let’s say you have a website called interestingstuff.com and it talks about interesting stuff about computers and you want to target the keywords “computer stuff” and “interesting experiments on your pc”.

The website interestingstuff.com would get you nowhere seo-wise. Even if you have a thousand links pointing to your website with the anchor text saying “computer stuff” you will not get any good positions on the google website unless you have some pr8 plus linking to your site, which may cost you an arm and a leg to maintain and to build.

But why spend so much money when a simple trick will immediately gain you lots of points with the search engine, especially Google. Here I want to clarify something that I think is a misconception about the search engines.

Always choose a name for your website that contains the keywords you are targeting. If you are targeting the keywords “interesting experiments on your pc” don’t be afraid to register a url such as Interestingexperimentsonyourpc.com , ok it is long, but as long as it gets me good traffic, why bother?

You might of course stumble upon a keyword that has already been used as a domain name, don’t worry just add a trailing 101 or x at the end or try buying the .net version. Don’t bother with .info or anything else other than a .com or a .net because Google doesn’t seem to prefer anything else.

[jesustamez]

I can agree with you on the keywords in the domain, but only for sites which have less importance or I am trying to rank fast. For personal sites/more important sites, I would pick out a unique, branded domain.

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

You might of course stumble upon a keyword that has already been used as a domain name, don’t worry just add a trailing 101 or x at the end or try buying the .net version. Don’t bother with .info or anything else other than a .com or a .net because Google doesn’t seem to prefer anything else.

I don't agree with .coms and .nets being the only ones google cares about.

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by jesustamez

I can agree with you on the keywords in the domain, but only for sites which have less importance or I am trying to rank fast. For personal sites/more important sites, I would pick out a unique, branded domain.



I don't agree with .coms and .nets being the only ones google cares about.

You have all the right in the world not to agree with me, but please back your arguments with what you know. I have been talking from 9 years experience in SEO here! .... what's your point of view?

[kiwiviktor81]

No love for .orgs? I have a few and as far as I can tell Google likes them as much as the .coms and .nets. But then my sample size is probably smaller than yours so feel free to disagree.

[jesustamez]

Well I just told you my point of view, but truthfully I've only been in IM for about 5 months and have made less than $50..

But if you worked for Google then maybe I'd believe you, I mean just because you have been doing this for 9 years doesn't mean you're successful (but you may be, idk).

[Yeeee Ha]

Completely agree with you on getting an EMD for the keyword you are targetting, no matter how long it is.

However, your love for only .com or a .net domain & disregarding all other domain extensions isn't true.

Cheers

P.S - Don't have 9 years of experience, but have been marketing and doing SEO for long enough to know that any domain extension would work as long as you know what exactly SEO is.

[thebitbotdotcom]

I agree that keyword based domain names are indeed useful, but personally, I have had more success with "brandable" domain names.

However, I'm just one data point.

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

Most other gurus may tell you that the shorter the web address is, the better you will get results in the search engines. This is utterly wrong

I do not know what "guru" circles you have been hanging out in, but I have NEVER heard anyone say this. The only thing I have heard people caution against is using domain names that are entirely too long, such as

howdoiteachmydogtositstaylaydownandbeg.com
topical-lotions-and-creams-that-prevent-acne-pimples-and-wrinkles.com

Domains with that many words in them are widely believed to be discounted by Google.

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

So let’s say you have a website called interestingstuff.com and it talks about interesting stuff about computers and you want to target the keywords “computer stuff” and “interesting experiments on your pc”.

The website interestingstuff.com would get you nowhere seo-wise. Even if you have a thousand links pointing to your website with the anchor text saying “computer stuff” you will not get any good positions on the google website unless you have some pr8 plus linking to your site, which may cost you an arm and a leg to maintain and to build.

I disagree with some of your other points, but this is just completely made up bull****. So if someone doesn't have the keywords in their domain, they have no chance? You should stop spreading blatant and ridiculous lies.

When I search "real estate prices" the first listing is zillow.com No "real estate prices" in that domain name, and it is a very competitive term. Must be magic.

Just searched "online dating", another competitive term. First listing I see is okcupid.com. They actually have a double listing. Then they are followed by pof.com. match.com has the next 3 listings after that. WTF? But none of them have any keywords in their domain. Again, must be magic.

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

Don’t bother with .info or anything else other than a .com or a .net because Google doesn’t seem to prefer anything else.

That is odd because when I perform this search, 7 of the listings on the first page are either a .info or .org.

I could find numerous other examples too.

[SuzanneH]

I'm doing extremely well with my short, brandable, made up word .com site (coming up on 10 years). The search engines look at so many other factors than just keywords in a domain name. I prefer building a business that focuses on a niche rather than building website after website just to grab a few keywords.

I'm not saying your way doesn't work; just that it's not the only way.

Suzanne

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by jesustamez

Well I just told you my point of view, but truthfully I've only been in IM for about 5 months and have made less than $50..

But if you worked for Google then maybe I'd believe you, I mean just because you have been doing this for 9 years doesn't mean you're successful (but you may be, idk).

I do not work for Google - but I have examined Google's patent for it's search engine formula. - That's how I know what I am talking about.

Originally Posted by kiwiviktor81

No love for .orgs? I have a few and as far as I can tell Google likes them as much as the .coms and .nets. But then my sample size is probably smaller than yours so feel free to disagree.

I'm not disagreeing just to say "I disagree" like many other people, I will however say that Google prefers .com and .net over anything else! I'm not saying it doesn't like .org or that it hates .info!! I say it prefers .com and .net

That doesn't mean that if you have any .org or .info you won't be able to rank it high but you will find it more difficult to do so!

Originally Posted by SuzanneH

I'm doing extremely well with my short, brandable, made up word .com site (coming up on 10 years). The search engines look at so many other factors than just keywords in a domain name. I prefer building a business that focuses on a niche rather than building website after website just to grab a few keywords.

I'm not saying your way doesn't work; just that it's not the only way.

Suzanne

Suzanne - if your sites have been up for 10 years than no wonder you are doig well.... one important factor is the domain age! something which I have been talking about for ages!

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I do not know what "guru" circles you have been hanging out in, but I have NEVER heard anyone say this. The only thing I have heard people caution against is using domain names that are entirely too long, such as

howdoiteachmydogtositstaylaydownandbeg.com
topical-lotions-and-creams-that-prevent-acne-pimples-and-wrinkles.com

Domains with that many words in them are widely believed to be discounted by Google.

Mike you are very wrong here and your advice on this subject is bound to hurt newbies. If you are targeting the keyword: How do i teach my dog to sit and lay down and beg then you would have more chances and it would be easier for you to get a domain name such as : howdoiteachmydogtositstaylaydownandbeg.com (to keep up on your example!)

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I disagree with some of your other points, but this is just completely made up bull****. So if someone doesn't have the keywords in their domain, they have no chance? You should stop spreading blatant and ridiculous lies.

I am not saying it is impossible to rank for a keyword if it isn't in your url , I am saying it will be much easier for you to rank for such a keyword!

Why you calling this made up bull**** - did you read Google's patent, it's very clear you don't know what you are talking about and are just parroting something you read or heard somewhere else without proper research!

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

I am not saying it is impossible to rank for a keyword if it isn't in your url , I am saying it will be much easier for you to rank for such a keyword!

Why you calling this made up bull**** - did you read Google's patent, it's very clear you don't know what you are talking about and are just parroting something you read or heard somewhere else without proper research!

It is EXACTLY what you said, which is why I said it was bull****. You said

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

The website interestingstuff.com would get you nowhere seo-wise. Even if you have a thousand links pointing to your website with the anchor text saying “computer stuff” you will not get any good positions on the google website unless you have some pr8 plus linking to your site, which may cost you an arm and a leg to maintain and to build.

Nowhere in that statement do you say it is easier to rank with a keyword in the URL. You blatantly say that you have no chance to rank "even with a thousand links pointing to your website".

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

Mike you are very wrong here and your advice on this subject is bound to hurt newbies. If you are targeting the keyword: How do i teach my dog to sit and lay down and beg then you would have more chances and it would be easier for you to get a domain name such as : howdoiteachmydogtositstaylaydownandbeg.com (to keep up on your example!)

There have been tests done that have found having a ton of words in the domain name, like the example above, made it harder to rank the domain. It's debatable, so I'll let that one go.

[ralchevd]

I totally disagree with you - and as it is called a "debate" I would like to share my opinion.

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

Most other gurus may tell you that the shorter the web address is, the better you will get results in the search engines. This is utterly wrong, it is a known fact in the search engine optimization community that search engines, especially Google gives a lot of weight to the name of the web site and associates keywords with it that would otherwise not be of any importance. Therefore a shorter url is bound to create problems for you.

Most SEO gurus recommend the short URL, because it gives you the chance to play around different keywords at the same domain. And they are right. E.x.:
Valuable, trustworthy URL (Website) : Install OS X on Your Hackintosh PC, No Hacking Required
Another spun MFA website : installhackintoshonyourpc.com

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

The website interestingstuff.com would get you nowhere seo-wise. Even if you have a thousand links pointing to your website with the anchor text saying “computer stuff” you will not get any good positions on the google website unless you have some pr8 plus linking to your site, which may cost you an arm and a leg to maintain and to build.

Definitely not true anymore. Google is improving its search engine algorithms and EXACT MATCH domain names are not a solution anymore. They are more often associated with spun content.

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

Always choose a name for your website that contains the keywords you are targeting. If you are targeting the keywords “interesting experiments on your pc” don’t be afraid to register a url such as Interestingexperimentsonyourpc.com , ok it is long, but as long as it gets me good traffic, why bother?

Again contrariwise. We are living in a world of brands and names, especially with the new algorithms of google and especially with the power of social networks. In order to proof that you are not right, you can just make a simple search at Google for ANYTHING. I.e. - "how to improve on site seo".

[naturegirl321]

I just changed a blogspot to a dot com, it's catchy, short, and simple. Not sure if it's good, or if it'll make me money though.

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

It's debatable, so I'll let that one go.

At least you are admitting that you were wrong and I was right all the time. thanks... hope that not many newbies followed your advice in the past!!!

You are what i would describe as the 'classic keyboard cowboy' who speaks (types) before he thinks about something and ends up having to eat back what he wrote and only writes something for the sake of adding up his post count! it's very clear now!

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by ralchevd

I totally disagree with you - and as it is called a "debate" I would like to share my opinion.



Most SEO gurus recommend the short URL, because it gives you the chance to play around different keywords at the same domain. And they are right. E.x.:
Valuable, trustworthy URL (Website) : Install OS X on Your Hackintosh PC, No Hacking Required
Another spun MFA website : installhackintoshonyourpc.com

Definitely not true anymore. Google is improving its search engine algorithms and EXACT MATCH domain names are not a solution anymore. They are more often associated with spun content.

Again contrariwise. We are living in a world of brands and names, especially with the new algorithms of google and especially with the power of social networks. In order to proof that you are not right, you can just make a simple search at Google for ANYTHING. I.e. - "how to improve on site seo".

I really laugh when i see people like you dishing advice here, with a website that is not even on the first two pages of google for the keyword you are targeting, and here you are on this forum playing the 'seo-guru' part !!

ps: I'm referring to the site in your signature...!!!

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

At least you are admitting that you were wrong and I was right all the time. thanks... hope that not many newbies followed your advice in the past!!!

You are what i would describe as the 'classic keyboard cowboy' who speaks (types) before he thinks about something and ends up having to eat back what he wrote and only writes something for the sake of adding up his post count! it's very clear now!

Wow. You are a complete ass. No need for the attack against me.

I only said it was debatable, so I would let it go. Your other statements were still wrong though, as I pointed out.

And I do not care about my post count.

[tryinhere]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

Don’t bother with .info or anything else other than a .com or a .net because Google doesn’t seem to prefer anything else.

Dang only had a . info up for a short while and only made around 1K profit in 2 weeks, yep id stay away from a .info for sure

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Wow. You are a complete ass. No need for the attack against me.

I only said it was debatable, so I would let it go. Your other statements were still wrong though, as I pointed out.

And I do not care about my post count.

You are the one calling me an a$$ - I did not call you names!! - you attacked me - as I told you before, you are the classic internet keyboard cowboy.

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

You are the one calling me an a$$ - I did not call you names!! - you attacked me - as I told you before, you are the classic internet keyboard cowboy.

Whatever. You are still wrong.

[paulgl]

I had to re-read the title of this thread, after reading
the responses.

Keywords in a URL are important. That's why wikipedia,
with its authority, ranks high for a ton of stuff. Google
tells you to put keywords in a url.

But a domain? No. Domains are not urls.

And I may be picky, but anyone who claims to be an
SEO expert, and does not know the difference, well...

So if the debate is on keywords in a domain, the argument
can begin and end with "warriorforum.com." And in
between we can talk about wikipedia...

Paul

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by paulgl

I had to re-read the title of this thread, after reading
the responses.

Keywords in a URL are important. That's why wikipedia,
with its authority, ranks high for a ton of stuff. Google
tells you to put keywords in a url.

But a domain? No. Domains are not urls.

And I may be picky, but anyone who claims to be an
SEO expert, and does not know the difference, well...

So if the debate is on keywords in a domain, the argument
can begin and end with "warriorforum.com." And in
between we can talk about wikipedia...

Paul

Paul it seems that roughly you and I have been on the warrior forum for around the same time, ie begining of 2007, but you have 4 times the post count I have!

that's a clear sign that you have been staying on the warrior forum 4 times as much as i did, and i assure you i spend a lot of time here....

However it means something else that you have been here discussing theories and trying to proof people like me wrong, when I on the contrary have been out there in the 'internet jungle' trying out and learning things and today I can speak from 'experience' after having experienced first hand the difficulty and challenges that internet marketing and SEO present

[outwest]

kw in url? helps a lot but its a small part of SEO,

kw in domain? if its EMD sure it helps a LITTLE but certainly not as much as it used to, Google will give a slight boost to EMD but they used to give much more

I am not a proponent of kw in the domain in anything other than EMD

EMDx.com?
I think thats a joke

[tryinhere]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

I on the contrary have been out there in the 'internet jungle' trying out and learning things and today I can speak from 'experience' after having experienced first hand the difficulty and challenges that internet marketing and SEO present

Well I think your clever, you have 2 seo threads running where controversy is running hot / your no normal run o mill poster thats for sure as these 2 threads feel very much structured to do what they are doing now. your getting more miles on these threads than my car gets on a oily rag.

[Rollmodl]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

Always choose a name for your website that contains the keywords you are targeting. If you are targeting the keywords “interesting experiments on your pc” don’t be afraid to register a url such as Interestingexperimentsonyourpc.com , ok it is long, but as long as it gets me good traffic, why bother?

Completely agree. The keywords in the url also serves as an anchor text. This may not work for everyone as a business will either seek to "brand" using their name or "market" using the keywords. Keyword "branding" is still possible by using it the trailing url's.

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by tryinhere

Well I think your clever, you have 2 seo threads running where controversy is running hot / your no normal run o mill poster thats for sure as these 2 threads feel very much structured to do what they are doing now. your getting more miles on these threads than my car gets on a oily rag.

shall i take your comment as a compliment? LOL

[tryinhere]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

shall i take your comment as a compliment? LOL

sure / but don't let the other puppies on the forum in on the spin or they will all want to wag their tales too. then it would be an all out war everyday and the poor mods are overworked and under paid now.

Edit, just to be clear that does not mean I agree with yours or anyone's topic / views on this subject.

[Alyona The Publicist]

I just wanted to share with you fellow warriors my experience from an seo point of view and then a couple of impersonator seo experts hijacked the thread!

[outwest]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

I just wanted to share with you fellow warriors my experience from an seo point of view and then a couple of impersonator seo experts hijacked the thread!

maybe thats because what you posted is completely false. Some of the statements you made in your original post in this thread are nothing less than laughable. almost the ramblings of a newbie or someone just intent on stirring the pot

[jesustamez]

Lol I knew I wasn't crazy..

[ralchevd]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

I really laugh when i see people like you dishing advice here, with a website that is not even on the first two pages of google for the keyword you are targeting, and here you are on this forum playing the 'seo-guru' part !!

ps: I'm referring to the site in your signature...!!!

Sorry, but it is kinda foolish to judge me just from my signature. I really laugh when people see my comment and they just ignore it. What about my post and my advice? "No, thx... his signature is more important, because it is crap and doesn't apper when I type it in gugl."

Personally, I don't see you as a good marketeer, sorry. I just entered the debate thats all

[Laubster]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

You have all the right in the world not to agree with me, but please back your arguments with what you know. I have been talking from 9 years experience in SEO here! .... what's your point of view?

Um have you seen how many .orgs rank for low competition keywords when doing KW research? I see them everyday.

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by Laubster

Um have you seen how many .orgs rank for low competition keywords when doing KW research? I see them everyday.

...you said it : low competition keywords!!! I can rank anything for low competition keywords - the problem is when you try to get something to rank for mid or high competition keywords - where the real money is!!!

[Alyona The Publicist]

I think it is so extremely important that we all learn something from the Google Patents that I have decided to open a new thread on this forum about Google Patents:

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-ppc-seo-discussion-forum/527330-google-patents.html#post5473379

Hopefully on this thread we will be able to discuss (civily) what works and what does not in the Google SEO world. But please let's be scientific in our approach on this thread, we cannot just keep arguing if an EMD works or if an EMD doesn't work unless it's backed by a scientific approach, and the closest to scientific that we can be in this case is by examining the data that google made public about it's formula.

Altough Google never did (and never will) publish it's exact formula, notwithstanding the fact that it is probably changing continually, we can infer some important things from the patents it published in the past couple of years.

May I take this opportunity to invite everyone who has posted on this thread and perhaps even disagreed with me on some points to join the discussion on google patents and Watch out that thread as I and others will be posting important information (with proof from Google Patents) that will completely change the way you think about SEO!!!!

[KyleGolemMedia]

Alyona,

Thanks for bringing this to light. I've recently been getting into the niche site-side of the internet world and find a lot of misguided antics being served up. One of the most important aspects of any site is how powerful the domain is. I won't bother creating a site unless I have the keyword contained in the URL. Not to mention, I avoid hyphens because it's proven to degrade the quality of the domain. Sure, you can still rank with those domains but I'm looking for the best.

In fact, I have the ability to find Exact Match Domains if anyone is interested. I have a fiverr gig for finding Exact Match Domain's in any niche. Not to throw you a sales pitch but I think this is really helpful. I was amazed when I first saw it work. These EMD's have up to 100k of organic traffic with low competition. They require WAY less work than any research you can do yourself.

Also, I will keep an eye on Google Patents. Seems like something worth keeping along with!

Kyle

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

You have all the right in the world not to agree with me, but please back your arguments with what you know. I have been talking from 9 years experience in SEO here! .... what's your point of view?

If you believe .net and .com are all google cares about, you have 9 years of seo inexperience. By the way, what keyword is amazon.com targeting?

[outwest]

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

If you believe .net and .com are all google cares about, you have 9 years of seo inexperience. By the way, what keyword is amazon.com targeting?

SOUNDS like she is one of those EMD fruitcakes

[jonoman1]

We all need to be careful about putting too much emphasis on keywords being in the domain. Yes, it is easier to rank a website that has the keyword in the domain and it has been this way for the last 10 years, but Google has been talking about de-emphasizing this fact in future updates since it has been abused so badly. So even though it still works for now, it should not be your only reason for buying a domain unless it's a one or two word domain. I have ranked a lot of sites for very competitive keywords that were nowhere to be found in the domain. It takes a lot of work, but I have noticed the rankings don't fluctuate as much. Just my 2 cents. With SEO it's all theory anyway, right?

[saritha]

In my opinion Keywords in domain name is always good irrespective of its length.

When it comes to URL (not just domain) , I prefer to keep it as short as possible.

[Alyona The Publicist]

Hello everyone,

you may have argued with me about the contents of what I posted in this post, also contrary to what many people are saying I did not do it to increase my post count, I would like to invite you over to this thread: (in this same forum)

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-ppc-seo-discussion-forum/527330-google-patents.html#post5486078

where I will be dissecting how the Google search engine works, I will be referring to Google released Patents and articles written by Google founders/employees themselves.


I also invite other members of the warrior forum of course to contribute both to the discussion and also by providing links to patents / such articles which will definitely help us shed a light (once and for all) on how Google really decides which sites to rank high.

I think this will be a very interesting journey for us.