Google Patents - Identifying the Truth and busting the Myths of SEO once and for all!

[Alyona The Publicist]

We can argue as much as we want about how SEO (and the google formula works) we can say that an EMD is important (or that it isn't) we can say that ageing a domain is important (or that it isn't)

However since no one knows the exact formula that Google uses to rank a site let's try to use this thread to examine (as scientifically as possible) the way Google works.

...and how can we do that?

We can only get as close to the "formula" as possible by learning from what information Google has made public. That can only be achieved by trying to learn something from the Google patents themselves. Google has hundreds of patents registered in it's name. It may use most of them and it may also not use some of them and has only registered such patents perhaps for future technology.

I would like to get some constructive info. on this thread and I will myself be pointing out relevant information soon.

Hopefully we can agree once and for all on what works on SEO (from Google's point of view) and what doesn't

Watch out this thread as I and others will be posting important information (with proof from Google Patents) that will completely change the way you think about SEO!!!!

[SEO ibiza]

you might like this site. SEO by the Sea

Bill has been reading and analysing these since you were at school.

this is one of the more important ones IMO and pretty much makes a mockery of all this PR chasing nonsense that goes on here

SEO is Undead 1 (Links and Keyword Proximity)

[Alyona The Publicist]

The Basics: The importance of Anchor Text (Truth revealed)

Sergey Brin and Larry Page, the minds behind the Google search engine mention the importance of having text (hyper-text) when you do get backlinks to your site, because Google gives so much importance to the anchor text.

The hereunder article written by Google's founders may be found in the hereunder abstract, it’s a very interesting read although slightly technical in itself at times.

The Anatomy of a Search Engine

This is a quote of what they say about how Google relates to backlink text:

The text of links is treated in a special way in our search engine. Most search engines associate the text of a link with the page that the link is on. In addition, we associate it with the page the link points to. This has several advantages. First, anchors often provide more accurate descriptions of web pages than the pages themselves. Second, anchors may exist for documents which cannot be indexed by a text-based search engine, such as images, programs, and databases. This makes it possible to return web pages which have not actually been crawled. Note that pages that have not been crawled can cause problems, since they are never checked for validity before being returned to the user. In this case, the search engine can even return a page that never actually existed, but had hyperlinks pointing to it. However, it is possible to sort the results, so that this particular problem rarely happens.


Keep tuned to this thread as I will be dissecting ‘scientifically’ how Google search engine works, I will be referring to Google released Patents and articles written by Google founders/employees themselves.

I also invite other members of the warrior forum of course to contribute both to the discussion and also by providing links to patents / such articles which will definitely help shed a light (once and for all) on how Google really decides which sites to rank high.

[samual james]

So according to you Only EMD can performed well in search engines. Lets take an example of website design keywords so according to you websites which contain website or design keywords performed well. when we check results we can seee all kind of websites over there So whats the Conclusion ?

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by samual james

So according to you Only EMD can performed well in search engines. Lets take an example of website design keywords so according to you websites which contain website or design keywords performed well. when we check results we can seee all kind of websites over there So whats the Conclusion ?

I will be posting a very interesting excerpt from a google patent about the importance of having an exact match domain or not very soon on this thread. Watch this space. For now I have posted only what Google founders's views are about backlink hyper-text (keyword) in an article they published jointly.

My intention is to tackle each factor of the search engine formula and proof each part as either a myth or prove it as the truth through information published by Google in it's patents and official articles and not speculate on anything

[waynewalters]

Got your email about this thread you're starting and I think this will be an interesting discussion. I have a few local business clients and I'm starting to build some niche sites so the whole EMD vs Brand Name domain will be something I'm focusing on.

[Newbieee]

yup its good to find out stuff. debate. etc.

but i think what is good for an individual is to try out, get real data, know what works for him, and then use it.

because if it works and bring in the dough then it doesnt matter what people say.

so number 1 is >>results<<

but i do like the purpose of this kinds of thread.

informative.

[nekyian]

Presence of KW in the domain name & Presence of KW in anchors of BACKLINKS - two completely different things. I believe she was clearly referring to the second.

[Bofu2U]

Saw you in the other thread regarding this, you may enjoy this read (full disclosure: my blog) regarding my views back 2.5ish years ago.

http://contempt.me/googles-classification-algorithms/

[Skywriting]

It can also be achieved by "Reverse Engineering" from the Google results pages. By looking at say, the top ten results, check for "suspected" raking factors, then see if those factors are consistant for the top 10 results from other searches. Reverse engineering is finding similar ways to achieve the same results. Very likely that every search engine has tried to match Google's relevancy results.

There will never be a once and for all agreement. Even Google engineers admit that they don't know how all the factors interrelate. There are just too many filters working on ever changing data to be able to make predictions on the outcome.

Lets not forget that when a number of new filters are tested thoroughly and Google PHD's have determined that the results are more relevant, they roll out the new algorithm in the form of an "update". Should we even decide any particular factor is relevant such as those at
www seomoz org/article/search-ranking-factors
then that may all change after the next update.

[Mike Anthony]

Looking at Patents is good only up to a certain point and only if it correlates with what you are testing in the search engine itself. People need to understand that patents are applied for even when the company ends up not even using the technology. So Google applies for a ton of patents and many of them end up not being used in the algo.

[yukon]

It's easier to look at very competitive niches/keywords & reverse engineer what's working for top ranking pages, than to dig through dated patent info. At least this way you know for a fact what your testing actually works in real world SERPs in 2012 & isn't just some white paper on the subject.

You have no idea If the patent info. is even in the algo. in 2012 (like Mike said above).

A lot of business (Google included) will buy out an entire smaller business just for their patents. They might only want a few of their best patents out of hundreds/thousands. They will still own the other less interesting patents & may never be used.

My point is just because someone owns a patent doesn't mean that patent is currently being used (today).

[maxrezn]

I'll be staying posted to this thread....what better info can you get than from the source.

[FreeMeal]

I think I figure out the Google Alogo ages ago. It's not as technologically advanced as you may think it is.

"Any Keyword" =

Adwords
Adwords
Adwords
1. wikipedia.com/any_keyword
1b. Google images for Any Keyword
2. Amazon.com/any_keyword
2b. Shopping results for any keyword
2c. News results for Any Keyword
3. Youtube Any Keyword
3b. Youtube Any Keyword
4. Youtube Any Keyword
4b. Youtube Any Keyword
5. MassiveRetailer.com/any_keyword
6. AnotherMassiveRetailer.com/any_keyword
7. anykeyword.com/crappy_EMD_site
8. any-key-word.org/crappy_website_with_ugly_EMD
9. Amazon.com/again_just_to_annoy_you
10. BestAnyKeywordx.com/god_awful_spammy_insult_to_all_your_own_hard_work_ any_Keyword_Review
Adwords
Adwords

[John Moore]

I currently do SEO daily on over 170 sites and I can say for sure that EMDs still have a powerful advantage as do aged domains.

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by John Moore

I currently do SEO daily on over 170 sites and I can say for sure that EMDs still have a powerful advantage as do aged domains.

I do personally agree with you, can you share and expand on your idea please?

There are many here that would refute our claims

[dp40oz]

Originally Posted by FreeMeal

I think I figure out the Google Alogo ages ago. It's not as technologically advanced as you may think it is.

"Any Keyword" =

Adwords
Adwords
Adwords
1. wikipedia.com/any_keyword
1b. Google images for Any Keyword
2. Amazon.com/any_keyword
2b. Shopping results for any keyword
2c. News results for Any Keyword
3. Youtube Any Keyword
3b. Youtube Any Keyword
4. Youtube Any Keyword
4b. Youtube Any Keyword
5. MassiveRetailer.com/any_keyword
6. AnotherMassiveRetailer.com/any_keyword
7. anykeyword.com/crappy_EMD_site
8. any-key-word.org/crappy_website_with_ugly_EMD
9. Amazon.com/again_just_to_annoy_you
10. BestAnyKeywordx.com/god_awful_spammy_insult_to_all_your_own_hard_work_ any_Keyword_Review
Adwords
Adwords

That is actually fairly accurate

[RatRaceWatch]

Yeh I got hit by googles update recently despite not having any ads above the fold. The funny thing is google puts a very crappy practically brand new domain above everyone else that delivers nothing for good content and has a few pages. Gotta love google, their search engine is a joke.

[Dexter AJ]

Originally Posted by dp40oz

That is actually fairly accurate

I dont get it

[thatkeywordguy]

dang...

That SEO by the Sea guy has amazing content...

Thanks!

[waynewalters]

Not disagreeing with you but there was a recent WSO with 75 case studies on what domains are ranking in the top 10 for different keywords. My interpretation was that having an EMD wasn't critical to getting a page 1 ranking. Having the keyword in the title and URL seemed to be vital though.

Coincidentally, all the sites that I have tried to rank (and gotten to page 1) all have a keyword in the domain but are not exact matches. I haven't tried to rank a non-keyword domain or non-EMD yet. I'm only 14 months into my SEO activities though.

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

I do personally agree with you, can you share and expand on your idea please?

There are many here that would refute our claims

Originally Posted by John Moore

I currently do SEO daily on over 170 sites and I can say for sure that EMDs still have a powerful advantage as do aged domains.

[Alyona The Publicist]

Originally Posted by waynewalters

My interpretation was that having an EMD wasn't critical to getting a page 1 ranking. Having the keyword in the title and URL seemed to be vital though..

Excellent statement I agree with you 100%

[MikeFriedman]

Originally Posted by Alyona The Publicist

Excellent statement I agree with you 100%

Just a few weeks ago you were arguing that having an EMD was absolutely critical to having any kind of SEO success. You pretty much called anyone who did not agree with you a fool.

Now you are agreeing with someone that says it is not?

What made you change your mind?

[MikeFriedman]

Well this thread really lived up to the hype.

[dminorfmajor]

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Well this thread really lived up to the hype.

Lol, It's always a good thing to see the OP has been banned when you first open a thread. :P

[Mark Hoffman]

dont try and reinvent the wheel, just do what works and keep up with it, as the game changes so does your link building but right once you think you have it figured out something will change

[goldraker]

Selling the domain name: theseosource .com
(No space @ .com being seen like this to place this post.)
I am into the name for more than $ 350.00
So I am asking $ 350.00 and recently renewed name for 2 years.
If interested contact George - 815.388.9206

[eshapard]

Originally Posted by SEO ibiza

you might like this site. SEO by the Sea

Bill has been reading and analysing these since you were at school.

this is one of the more important ones IMO and pretty much makes a mockery of all this PR chasing nonsense that goes on here

SEO is Undead 1 (Links and Keyword Proximity)

Thanks for the resource. I put it in my to-read list.

[CherriKind]

A lot of business (Google included) will buy out an entire smaller business just for their patents. They might only want a few of their best patents out of hundreds/thousands. They will still own the other less interesting patents & may never be used.