STOP Wasting Your Money on 1000 backlink scams

[Oconnor1]

I haven't been spending as much time on the Warrior Forum as I used to and I was browsing through the WSO section today and wanted to vomit.

These 1000's of backlinks for 40 bucks a month are complete worthless crap and after Google's Panda update and going forward into 2012 will most likely result in your site ending up in the penalty box!

I am willing to do a full backlink analysis (no cost) for the first two people who respond to this thread who have bought one of those packages recently so you can see what kind of junk you are getting.

I know SEO can be overwhelming and tough but let me try and simplify a few things real quick.


Google values sites that are relevant to yours and who are credible. A site gains credibility by having fresh and unique content and by having other sites linking to them. That means the goal in SEO is to get one way links from those credible and related sites.

Do you think anyone who has a network of hundreds of sites where all they do are sell and publish other peoples links in all different niches and categories looks at all credible to Google??

In case you are wondering the answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Yes some directories or article submissions are okay from time to time are fine but they should be maybe 10 to 15% of your SEO campaign not the whole thing!

Not only are those sites pure crap but think of how all those links look to Google. Last week you had maybe 10 links to your site and now you have a thousand anchor text links of your primary keyword all from low value sites. Google is smart and they realize what is happening here and have been throwing everything they can at cutting down on this kind of link spam.

What's the solution? Find a way to reach out and offer something of value to people who have a site in your niche (not someone who is promoting the same products as you). This could be a guest posts, giveaway to their readers, etc.

Those links will help you grow your site long term and 98% of the time keep you getting penalized for Google.

It's not easy and no one is going to do it for you for 40 bucks for a 1000 but it's how real SEO is done.

I'll try and back to answer any related questions but hopefully this sets off a light bulb in some people's minds.

[paulgl]

Getting 1,000 links that do nothing will not hurt.
People mistake not helping with hurting. If they
are all worthless, google will never in a million years
see them.

However, if even a fraction of them are seen, and
are useful, $40 is not bad.

Hardly a scam. A scam has a completely different
definition.

If someone sold me $500,000 worth of monopoly money
for $1, is that a scam? Or do I get more than my dollar's
worth?

I pay almost $4 a gallon for gas. Is that a scam, or
charging me as much as they can get?

There are a lot of WSO's that are crap. But you
can't make a blanket statement like that without
at least naming "the scam."

Paul

[MaverickUK]

With all due respect you don't sound like you know what you're talking about. Regardless of what anyone says, links from non-related websites work and will continue to work for years to come. Google doesn't try to differentiate between related niches for obvious reasons and no, they do NOT penalise websites that garner backlinks from so-called unrelated websites.

Google is smart but people give them far too much credit - whilst they are smart they're simply algorithms at the end of the day. Google aren't as smart as you think.

[paulgl]

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

Regardless of what anyone says, links from non-related websites work and will continue to work for years to come. Google doesn't try to differentiate between related niches for obvious reasons and no, they do NOT penalise websites that garner backlinks from so-called unrelated websites.

Well, that's pretty good! But contextual links, in the same niche, on high PR
pages are best. But people don't really know if they are in the same niche or
not. Only google knows for sure. A link on a page about credit cards on
a student loan site, is that a link from student loans or credit cards? Or
maybe that page on credit cards is actually about payday loans in
google's eyes? I know I was shocked when I saw what google thinks
some of my sites were about!

You are absolutely spot-on when you say google counts good links
regardless.

Case in point: Warrior forum sigs. They are golden. And seriously.
How many of you are in the same niche as the WF?

Paul

[Oconnor1]

Originally Posted by paulgl

Getting 1,000 links that do nothing will not hurt.
People mistake not helping with hurting. If they
are all worthless, google will never in a million years
see them.


Paul

If no bad links can ever hurt to your site then why have thousands and thousands of people had their sites penalized after the Panda updates?

The only way your comment makes any sense is if the directories give you no follow links (which pass zero SEO value) or the whole site is intentionally blocking the SERPS from crawling them which would make it just as bad of a scam if not worse.

If Google can crawl these directories and sees you all the sudden get 1000 links off of one or two spun articles with the exact anchor text out of nowhere you will more than likely get penalized. Just do a simple search about panda or even look through the top page of threads here to see people trying to figure out why there sites got penalized.

Well if you can't figure it out it's obvious and its also partially because the prevailing winds in the affiliate community still think all you have to do to succeed at SEO is spin junk.

Maybe you've used this strategy with success in the past and maybe you will get away with it in the future but I'd wager it will fail you at some point sooner than later. And if you want to keep doing it go ahead.

This thread was more for beginners who don't know much about SEO. If someone only has a few bucks to spend on SEO and they spend it on this crap and there site gets sandboxed for six to eight months and can't make them any money back then yes I consider that a scam because your lying about the effectiveness of something to someone who doesn't know any better.

[Oconnor1]

Originally Posted by MaverickUK

With all due respect you don't sound like you know what you're talking about. Regardless of what anyone says, links from non-related websites work and will continue to work for years to come. Google doesn't try to differentiate between related niches for obvious reasons and no, they do NOT penalise websites that garner backlinks from so-called unrelated websites.

Google is smart but people give them far too much credit - whilst they are smart they're simply algorithms at the end of the day. Google aren't as smart as you think.

With all due respect it doesn't seem like you've ever heard of a meta tag. If I write a guest post for someone about online poker and the anchor text link they give me to my site says "online poker" and one of their primary keywords that they meta tag on each page is "online poker" then that is going to do a hell of a lot for me in Google's eyes.

I'm not talking about absolute minutia here and saying that if Site A is about investing in stocks and site b is about investing in real estate that if you write about stocks a link from site b would hurt yours because they are different types of investing. I am saying Google is looking for the keywords to be somewhat related and the more they are the better link juice you will receive.

If we both started a 25 page site about about car insurance and I got links from auto, insurance and finance blogs and forums and you got only completely unrelated directories and other pages do you really think in a years time you would outrank me?

Can you game Google? Yes you can. Is it going to get harder? Absolutely. As they evolve will they punish you for building spammy links in the past? They have already shown that they will with Panda.

My point with this thread was to tell newcomers that the way to create a LONG TERM successful site that will rank across multiple keywords is to put in the effort and get related links. I don't see anyone else saying it and I see tons of these blog network, link wheel and other garbage ads everywhere I look.

Pull a backlink profile for a really successful affiliate site and 9 out of 10 times that spammy cap will be at a minimum and they will have high value links from related sites.

[sunray]

Links in directories are not a spam in any way. Google may, of course, do whatever they like with its SERPs. To punish a website for being listed in a directory is pure absurd--which, I don't deny, Google is completely capable of. But as far as I know, some directories, like dmoz.org actually quite the contrary, help a lot. Google values a website that gets listed there very highly.
And, from a logical point of view, it is very natural for a new website to get listed in as many directories as possible. If Google really penalizes for it, the next step would be against the sites that will do too good on Bing and Yahoo.

[MaverickUK]

Guest posting is a good way of getting related backlinks, sure, but don't you realise this is effectively still trying to game Google? No matter what way you think about it you're still trying, successfully or not, to game Google - if they're going to take action on 'garbage' like blog networks they sure as hell will eventually detect and penalise other methods such as 'guest posting'.

Blog networks work wonders and in confident they will for a long time to come. However I agree for a long term thriving business model you want to get real, natural backlinks and the BEST way to do this is to write excellent unique content that readers will love.

On the other hand if you're an affiliate marketer methods such as blog network, web 2.0, article directories, link directories etc will work just fine and I can't see there being a radical change to that any time soon. Sure, Google will try and change things in major ways but we adapt - it's as simple as that.

And yes, I've heard of meta tags, but the weight you're seemingly putting on related niche backlinks is rediculous. Those links are ideal but not the be all and end all like you make out.

[Nicky Papers]

Originally Posted by Oconnor1

My point with this thread was to tell newcomers that the way to create a LONG TERM successful site that will rank across multiple keywords is to put in the effort and get related links. I don't see anyone else saying it and I see tons of these blog network, link wheel and other garbage ads everywhere I look.

Suggesting what service providers are offering on this forum is a scam is WRONG. The point that you were trying to make was lost in translation with the title you selected for your thread. There are hardworking service providers that go to algorithmic lengths beyond your level of comprehension to ensure the quality and benefits of using their network, product, or service. While some products may be better than others, shame on you for implying the nature or intention of these backlink services to be a scam.

[Oconnor1]

Originally Posted by Nicky Papers

.Suggesting what service providers are offering on this forum is a scam is WRONG. The point that you were trying to make was lost in translation with the title you selected for your thread There are hardworking service providers that go to algorithmic lengths beyond your level of comprehension to ensure the quality and benefits of using their network, product, or service. While some products may be better than others, shame on you for implying the nature or intention of these backlink services to be a scam.

I'm dying over here... algorithmic lengths? Maybe that is beyond my level of comprehension or more likely it just makes zero sense.

If you would be so gracious to explain "algorithmic lengths" these operators go to I would be ever so grateful.

I'm wondering where you cultivated such a high level of comprehension? Was it from doing all those reviews of Jersey Shore on your blog?

Lets break this down real quick. If you have a "blog network" of hundreds of sites then to pass any juice you are going to need several c class servers or else Google will be able to tell they are all from the same IP address. That's taking on a huge expense level just to spin other peoples articles for 40 bucks a month. More likely they are doing something similar to SeNuke where its automatically submitting them to existing networks, social bookmarks, etc. These days those kinds of links pass on little value and are setting off alarms in the SERPS.

There is nothing spectacular going on here and if someone could really write code that manipulated Google into passing higher link value then it should I GUARANTEE they would not be offering to give you a thousand links for 40 bucks.

If people can post outrageous claims about their products and services then I can call bull****.

I'll tell you what though. If you can find a high level member of the SEO community like a Rand Fishkin to vouch that buying thousands of spammy blog links with the exact same anchor text for a new domain is the key to SEO success then I will make a full apology to you.

[TBInternetMarketing]

Originally Posted by paulgl

If someone sold me $500,000 worth of monopoly money
for $1, is that a scam? Or do I get more than my dollar's
worth?

Paul

Ha ha, great quote Paul.

[danlew]

Well, since the brand new Google Panda algorithm was updated 2 weeks ago, I guess it will be tougher for us to buy thousands of backlinks to our websites.

It's tough now guys, just build a few high quality valuable backlinks than thousands of spammy links.

[Oconnor1]

Originally Posted by sunray

Links in directories are not a spam in any way. Google may, of course, do whatever they like with its SERPs. To punish a website for being listed in a directory is pure absurd--which, I don't deny, Google is completely capable of. But as far as I know, some directories, like dmoz.org actually quite the contrary, help a lot. Google values a website that gets listed there very highly.
And, from a logical point of view, it is very natural for a new website to get listed in as many directories as possible. If Google really penalizes for it, the next step would be against the sites that will do too good on Bing and Yahoo.

I said it in my first post but looking back I realize I didn't make it clear. Some directory linking and article submissions are a healthy part of an SEO strategy. You are right, sights like Dmoz and Best of the Web can pass along great value. Industry specific directories and press releases can as well. The problem is, getting a link in Dmoz takes approval and best of the web and many other high quality ones cost money ($300 for BOTW). If someone is including submitting my site to BOTW as part of there 40.00 for 1k links package let me know and I am 100% in.

You can't tell me though that taking one or two articles and spinning them and ending up with 1k links with the exact same anchor text over a few days span is going to be a long term viable strategy. It's blowing up in peoples faces all over the place already.

I

[zerofill]

Originally Posted by Oconnor1

If no bad links can ever hurt to your site then why have thousands and thousands of people had their sites penalized after the Panda updates?

That's actually easy to answer...

The links didn't technically hurt the site. The links were devalued. Thus carried less weight. So the overall basis for the site being ranked higher is now gone. That doesn't mean the actual links hurt the site. Just means they were no longer a big help to it. No longer the driving force for it's rankings.

[Oconnor1]

Originally Posted by zerofill

That's actually easy to answer...

The links didn't technically hurt the site. The links were devalued. Thus carried less weight. So the overall basis for the site being ranked higher is now gone. That doesn't mean the actual links hurt the site. Just means they were no longer a big help to it. No longer the driving force for it's rankings.

In a sense I can't say you are totally wrong but you are definitely not necessarily right either. I've seen sites get penalized by Panda when they've had 85% strong diverse link profile and then get sandboxed and really screwed on the rankings after a bad link buy/submission. The penalty they've got put them way farther back in the rankings then they would have if it was only a matter of those poor links getting devalued.

The truth is, it's kind of a gray area and Google is not going to respond to your individual requests for answers on these issues but it is not at all a strict correlation between links devalued and loss of rankings.

[shinebook]

No one can say that how much links are important to get ranking in search engine its really wasting of time to get thousands of links

Why

I think Google consider links to determine ranking in negative and positive way. One link that is not impotent on given links page is not really valuable and useless. May be quite well effects can be show for few days but soon have to feel sorrow to see drop ranking in search engine.

Even I don’t understand how people assume that directory and article is 10% to 15% of SEO. Do they know Google algorithm. Can they give facts on the given statement?

[Bambu]

Originally Posted by Oconnor1

In a sense I can't say you are totally wrong but you are definitely not necessarily right either. I've seen sites get penalized by Panda when they've had 85% strong diverse link profile and then get sandboxed and really screwed on the rankings after a bad link buy/submission. The penalty they've got put them way farther back in the rankings then they would have if it was only a matter of those poor links getting devalued.

The truth is, it's kind of a gray area and Google is not going to respond to your individual requests for answers on these issues but it is not at all a strict correlation between links devalued and loss of rankings.

Do you secretly work for Google? If not it is extremely difficult to determine what is going on in an uncontrolled environment. Each website that is negatively impacted by Google's algorithms has so many variables that it is close to impossible to tell what was the root cause(s) of the penalty or devaluation.

As far as huge backlink blasts. They don't have the power they once had, but they still have their place in today's SEO environment. Now, I wouldn't point them at your money site, but in large numbers they can be used to juice up your tier 2 and tier 3 properties (running them through an indexer definitely helps) and help with indexing low quality backlinks.

[Oconnor1]

Originally Posted by Bambu

Do you secretly work for Google? If not it is extremely difficult to determine what is going on in an uncontrolled environment. Each website that is negatively impacted by Google's algorithms has so many variables that it is close to impossible to tell what was the root cause(s) of the penalty or devaluation.

As far as huge backlink blasts. They don't have the power they once had, but they still have their place in today's SEO environment. Now, I wouldn't point them at your money site, but in large numbers they can be used to juice up your tier 2 and tier 3 properties (running them through an indexer definitely helps) and help with indexing low quality backlinks.

What if instead of having to build tier 2 and 3 sites and then filling them up with backlink blasts and having those point to your one money site you just did effective and relevant link building to your money site from the beginning?

You would learn outreach, get better at creating content and help your site build a link profile that would look more organic to Google.

It seems like just as much effort and financial output if not more to have to build this whole network of sites with the main purpose being to link back to your one money site. Not only that, but if you don't have some of these sites on different hosting servers that's yet another red flag for Google.

[Oconnor1]

Maybe I screwed myself a bit with the title of this thread. Although I don't like these services because I feel they portray to newbies that buying link blasts is how you do SEO, I didn't mean that to be the focal point of the thread.

If you read up on what's happening with Google, they are trying to incorporate bounce rate, CTR and social signals into their algorithm. A lot of this has to do with finding a way to devalue and get rid of affiliate mini-sites as much as possible and elevate brands. With Google + your world they are trying to integrate a new social graph as well.

It is my opinion which I have developed from doing a lot of SEO work that relying on link blasts from unrelated sites is already getting people intro trouble and it will only get worse in the future.

What I wanted to do was answer anyone's questions who wanted to know more about how to do outreach and link building.

I'm not going to keep going back and forth on the quality of these link builidng services though. Clearly they are the gospel of the Warrior Forum and it's not going to get any of us anywhere to reinforce our positions on the matter.

[Newbieee]

I understand where you are coming from but you may put it out in the wrong way.

Just paying $40 for backlink packages and expect to rank spot 1 over a month or so is being misled, and if anyone try to sell you this idea or dream then that is a scam or what they call it "hype"

But they do have their worth. It depends on the service provider.
Not all links are worth your money.

[bnetwork]

And yet I continue ranking pages for competitive keywords using 3-4 $40 packages... SCAM ALERT!1!!

I noticed these threads pop up once in a while and they're always fun as hell to read. SEO white knights on a mission, lulz.

[Bofu2U]

Originally Posted by Oconnor1

It is my opinion which I have developed from doing a lot of SEO work that relying on link blasts from unrelated sites is already getting people intro trouble and it will only get worse in the future.

Ok, so John Smith the owner of an ecommerce store gets linked to by his cousin who blogs about how he plays soccer. You really think that would hurt him?

Think about it.

Oh, and just FYI:

Originally Posted by Oconnor1

These 1000's of backlinks for 40 bucks a month are complete worthless crap and after Google's Panda update and going forward into 2012 will most likely result in your site ending up in the penalty box!

Panda has ZERO to do with backlinks. It was an on-page filter.

(Disclaimer: I didn't read the ENTIRE thread but the first 10-15ish posts)

Edit2:

Originally Posted by bnetwork

And yet I continue ranking pages for competitive keywords using 3-4 $40 packages... SCAM ALERT!1!!

^ this.

[Oconnor1]

Just wanted to pop back into this thread and say, told ya! I feel bad for people whose rankings and income have been destroyed by the deindexing of these networks and their sites but hopefully this will shine a light on the fact that you need a diverse, sustainable, long term strategy to succeed with SEO going forward.