Modify One Good Advert Or Have Different Ones for Different Keywords?

[phil.wheatley]

Hi Troops

I'm continuing my journey into PPC hell, hoping to make it throgh the other side. I read some great advice from Derek which said you should create each adgroup separately with the one keyword phrase to make it targetted. Now, having done this, I have one distinct advert which is doing well but the others range from average to crap.

So...should I just duplicate that same advert for the other adgroups, but just change the heading to match the keyword phrase, or should I stick with having different ones for each adgroup. I've tried doing a keyword search in google to look at the ads for each phrase and copy them slightly, but for most I don't seem to be getting the CTR I want.

Thanks,
Phil

[chaumi]

If you've got something working from one ad, I'd tend to set the wording in the others similarly (around the other keywords as long as the context doesn't change dramatically) just as you've suggested.

Of course, it may be that your lesser performing keywords are just that, and will always perform lower. Changing the ads/testing new ones should confirm/improve


LOL on the hell bit, know how you feel

[askloz]

Phil, bro, have you used PPC Shadow? It's Brad Callens site... Try it.. it's a bit like Google Cash Detective, but much CHEAPER!

Give that a try for approx 1-2 months and see how you get on...

What it does is, you punch in some keywords, and it spits out these campaigns and it's associated ads that their server crawls and caches... it checks I think twice daily to see if the person's advert is still the same, or been modified or removed, or what have you, gives out stats based on performance... simply copy their advert, it's more or less an instance gold mine.

You sure Derek told you that? I mentioned this to you last year about single adgroups, single keywords, it's even on my forum that you're a member of

[phil.wheatley]

Chaumi

Thanks for the help, I've changed one of my ads to be similar to a working one to see if it will help.

Hi Loz

Again, you seem to have to spend most of your time answering my questions ;-) I've got Affiliate Elite which I think is the same sort of thing as PPC shadow. Or do you think PPC shadow is better, if so then I might change to that. You could always pm me an affiliate link if you like.

Sorry, when I say Derek I guess I mean that it was brought to light again to me by him. Maybe that was another Phil on your foum as I haven't done PPC for a couple of years, and didn't really do anything at all back then anyway. However, there could be a possibility I did but doing this IM thing for 3 years has burnt my last remaining brain cell ;-)

Anyway, thanks again Bro for your help, you're awesome!

Phil

[askloz]

Affiliate elite is nothing like PPC Shadow mate... it's far more sophisticated than that.

Nah, only have one Phil Wheatley on my forum mate

any ways, it's all good..

[phil.wheatley]

One Phil Wheatley is enough!! ha ha Ok Bro, well, I'll take your advice then. Why??? Because there seems to be a pattern, I've noticed when people don't listen to you, they don't make money, but when they do listen, they do make money!

If you have an affiliate link, PM me one mate, if not then no worries, I'll check it in a couple of days or so.

Take care,
Phil

[askloz]

affiliate link for what mate? PPC Shadow? nah, it's all good bro... go for it. Brad helps me out, so, me helping him out, back

[askloz]

just an update mate... Brad told me last night that PPC Shadow turned out to be too expensive to run, so he's now turning to PPC Bully 2.0, so you might want to try that instead, he said it's much better.

[Lucid]

Creating one group per keyword seems overkill to me. Sure, you want to limit the number of keywords in a group. But what if you have hundreds of potential keywords?

Let's take an example. Let's say I have an aquarium supplies site. One of the products is UV sterilizers.

I want all my keywords to contain the word aquarium since it is more accurate than just "uv sterilizer" which is too general and these things may be used for other purposes. Some people use the term "fish tank" or even fishtank in place of aquarium. Some will use ultraviolet or "ultra violet" instead of UV. A few more will use clarifier instead of sterilizer. Not to mention the plural forms. This is 36 keywords in total.

Loz, do you create a group for each match type as well? That would double the number.

What about variations? As many people search on "uv sterilizer aquarium" as those searching on "aquarium uv sterilizer". I assume you would create separate group for each of these keywords.

Some people search on the brand name as well, there are a couple of well-known brands for UV sterilizers. That results in a lot of one-keyword groups. And I haven't even touched the filter cartridges category yet.

Would you still create dozens of one-keyword groups for the UV sterilizers Loz?

[phil.wheatley]

Hi Lucid

That's some pretty interesting points. I think it's fair to say that it really depends on the niche then? The examples you gave for fish tanks makes sense to group different variations of the same thing...like Fire truck same as firetruck and fire-truck? But in other cases, even just having one letter different for the keyword can mean the visitor is searching for something different, so each ad should still be written for each individual keyword.

Again, another point about being different for different niches is....yeah, it could be crazy to have one ad for each keyword if there are hundreds, or thousands of keywords, but for some markets, 80% of the revnue comes from a handful of keywords, so it would still be practical.

Anyway, that's enough dribble from me, it would be interesting to hear Loz's spin on it.

Phil

[Lucid]

> so each ad should still be written for each individual keyword.
To be more precise, each ad written for each individual group.

In my aquarium UV sterilizer example, a few groups would be a good idea. One for "fish tank" keywords, one for "fishtank", another for "aquarium". You may want to further split groups along "uv", "ultraviolet" and "ultra violet" keywords although I don't do that in this case since there are not as many searches for the last two so the extra returns, if any, would be minimal.

In many cases however, whether the search is singular or plural could make a difference. You have to get into the searcher's frame of mind. As an example, since you only need one UV sterilizer for your tank (normally), are you more inclined to use the singular? My data suggests so by a factor of almost 5 to one. What of those using the plural? Is there a reason they did so, looking for something different? When you figure that out, then you can create a group using the plural forms with an ad all their own.

I don't think it depends on the niche. I can find dozens of keywords for most niches, sometimes hundreds. Of course, you can group them according to certain themes but often, a group will still have a dozen or so keywords.

[Paid Surveys]

It's an interesting argument but in reality it is about what works best for you. Personally I think that each advert should be unqiue as you are targetting a unique set of customers. But if you are finding a particular forumula working then that's fine. The only true test will be to test this theory by running forumulatic adverts for a month and then unique adverts for a month and comparing CTR

[askloz]

Originally Posted by Lucid

Creating one group per keyword seems overkill to me. Sure, you want to limit the number of keywords in a group. But what if you have hundreds of potential keywords?

Not if you have SpeedPPC it's not mate, punch in keywords, type your ad variations, click a couple of buttons, boom, upload data via adwords editor, and bob's ya uncle

Originally Posted by Lucid

Let's take an example. Let's say I have an aquarium supplies site. One of the products is UV sterilizers.

I want all my keywords to contain the word aquarium since it is more accurate than just "uv sterilizer" which is too general and these things may be used for other purposes. Some people use the term "fish tank" or even fishtank in place of aquarium. Some will use ultraviolet or "ultra violet" instead of UV. A few more will use clarifier instead of sterilizer. Not to mention the plural forms. This is 36 keywords in total.

Loz, do you create a group for each match type as well? That would double the number.

Yup, but SpeedPPC will sort all these out for you. probably takes no more than 15 minutes to do about 1000 keywords.... though, not advisable at first cos it can take a while to optimize all adgroups and campaigns, start off slowly with about 10 keywords, optimize, and tweak here and there, before moving on adding more keywords to existing group or creating new adgroups/ campaigns.

Originally Posted by Lucid

What about variations? As many people search on "uv sterilizer aquarium" as those searching on "aquarium uv sterilizer". I assume you would create separate group for each of these keywords.

Words that you go wide with, go into a new campaign, words that you go deep with, go into the same ad campaign, but add these slowly... best off creating testing campaigns first before sticking keywords in an existing ad group or you may find that the keyword isn't as good as you thought and can reduce your ctr some what, causing you to pay more.

main thing you need to concentrate on once you know which ones are buying phrases are the adverts

Originally Posted by Lucid

Some people search on the brand name as well, there are a couple of well-known brands for UV sterilizers. That results in a lot of one-keyword groups. And I haven't even touched the filter cartridges category yet.

Would you still create dozens of one-keyword groups for the UV sterilizers Loz?

This you would need to test, I've not delved into UV Sterilizers before, so not sure how google would treat this as a relation to aquarius, or baby bottle sterilizers, or what have ya.

[askloz]

Originally Posted by Lucid

> so each ad should still be written for each individual keyword.
To be more precise, each ad written for each individual group.

In my aquarium UV sterilizer example, a few groups would be a good idea. One for "fish tank" keywords, one for "fishtank", another for "aquarium". You may want to further split groups along "uv", "ultraviolet" and "ultra violet" keywords although I don't do that in this case since there are not as many searches for the last two so the extra returns, if any, would be minimal.

you may find that google will say that these keywords might overlap and already triggered via another keyword.. ie

ultraviolet could also trigger: ultra violet, if they do, then ya need to remove one. or add embedded negative matches to take out ultra violet by doing this

-ultra violet
-"ultra violet"
-[ultra violet]

so ads only get triggered by: ultraviolet

[Lucid]

Thanks for your insight Loz.

SpeedPPC seems to be a wonderful tool. I do have reservations about software making all the decisions for me and I speak as a computer programmer! Uploading all these groups automatically is wonderful but Adwords Editor can do that.

Can you edit groups and keywords before pushing that upload button? Such a tool is great but you must be able to review and override anything it does. Does it suggest synonyms too?

> start off slowly with about 10 keywords, optimize, and tweak here and there, before moving on adding more keywords

Sound advice to give to PPC newbies. However, most just throw every keyword they can think of, many are the wrong ones.

> main thing you need to concentrate on once you know which ones are buying phrases are the adverts

Yep. You got to test adverts all the time. I client of mine is surprised that I tested over 40 different ads in one group in one year. Well, that's how I more than tripled the CTR.

> I've not delved into UV Sterilizers before, so not sure how google would treat this as a relation to aquarius

My keyword is not "uv sterilizers" but "aquarium uv sterilizers". Sure, I'm missing out on the shorter tail but there can be other kinds. Simply "uv sterilizers" is a bit too broad.

I think you may also have misunderstood my last message. The groups would not contain the keyword "aquarium" but "aquarium uv sterilizers" and "uv sterilizer for aquarium" as examples. Another group would be around the theme "fish tank uv sterilizers".

Google has no problem because I don't use broad matched keywords, only phrase and exact (plus appropriate negatives of course). I might use broad matches early in the campaign but only to gather some data. The SQR report is a great source for new keywords, search patterns and negative keywords. The goal is to end up with phrase and exact matches. The larger the percentage of searches on exact matches, the happier I am.

[askloz]

Originally Posted by Lucid

Thanks for your insight Loz.

SpeedPPC seems to be a wonderful tool. I do have reservations about software making all the decisions for me and I speak as a computer programmer! Uploading all these groups automatically is wonderful but Adwords Editor can do that.

That's what I just said bud...

SpeedPPC just creates your adgroups and campaigns for you, placing one keyword in each adgroup, and multiple adgroups inside a campaign so they are all tightly related to boost up CTR, and lower CPC, and more features to add dynamic landing page urls, etc.

Once you have that, you take the file, and upload it to Adwords using their Editor.

Originally Posted by Lucid

Can you edit groups and keywords before pushing that upload button? Such a tool is great but you must be able to review and override anything it does. Does it suggest synonyms too?

Yup, you can edit all that... no, it doesn't do synonyms, as I said before bud, you create your keyword list, and it'll sort them all out for you.

Originally Posted by Lucid

> start off slowly with about 10 keywords, optimize, and tweak here and there, before moving on adding more keywords

Sound advice to give to PPC newbies. However, most just throw every keyword they can think of, many are the wrong ones.

Been there before bud... sticking in thousands of keywords, scratching my head why my CPC were killing my budget, losing approx £6,000.00 within 2 months...

So I gave up for about 6-8 months or so, and just concentrated on SEO to drive traffic to my sites...

Then I came across PPC Classroom 1.0, then everything changed.
I got the £6k back within a few months... learned how to scale my campaigns, and make more than 5 times that each month now. Took a while though, but got there in the end.

Originally Posted by Lucid

> main thing you need to concentrate on once you know which ones are buying phrases are the adverts

Yep. You got to test adverts all the time. I client of mine is surprised that I tested over 40 different ads in one group in one year. Well, that's how I more than tripled the CTR.

> I've not delved into UV Sterilizers before, so not sure how google would treat this as a relation to aquarius


My keyword is not "uv sterilizers" but "aquarium uv sterilizers". Sure, I'm missing out on the shorter tail but there can be other kinds. Simply "uv sterilizers" is a bit too broad.

Right, but I said if you were to use "uv sterilizers" Google might not deem it related to aquariums... so it wouldn't be an advisable word/phrase to use.

Originally Posted by Lucid

I think you may also have misunderstood my last message. The groups would not contain the keyword "aquarium" but "aquarium uv sterilizers" and "uv sterilizer for aquarium" as examples. Another group would be around the theme "fish tank uv sterilizers".

Right, but you would name your campaign that, or your adgroup.

ie..

ad campaign: aquariums
ad group: aquarium sterilizers
keyword: aquarium uv sterilizers

folla?

Originally Posted by Lucid

Google has no problem because I don't use broad matched keywords, only phrase and exact (plus appropriate negatives of course). I might use broad matches early in the campaign but only to gather some data. The SQR report is a great source for new keywords, search patterns and negative keywords. The goal is to end up with phrase and exact matches. The larger the percentage of searches on exact matches, the happier I am.

Study emedded negative matches more, this took me a while to work out and experiement... but you can still use broad match, while getting the same effect as [exact match] and be charged way way way less.

One way I found out how to do it, was to load up Google Analytics, see how they were finding my ad before they clicked on it, then added that prhase as a negative embedded match, so only the broad match phrase would appear, regardless of what keyword they used before, or after or in the middle of the phrase I was targetting.

Get what I mean?