The Angela Experiment: aka Let's gang up on Angela thread

[Paul M]

Whoa, this thread has become a beast. Ignoring all the other stuff going on in here for a second.

Angela,

I've been a subscriber for a long time and you've always been helpful, but there is a serious problem . There is a clear increasing trend of sites that no longer allow links or take steps against them each month. You cant ignore that problem for two reasons IMO.


1. Your putting your subscribers at an ever higher risk of getting blacklisted or penalized.

2. Your putting the long term future of your business at risk if you don't change how you operate.

Your gonna have to adapt and consider your ever growing and probably already large subscriber base and other forums sharing your packets. There have already been other good ideas how you could do that in this thread. If that means more work for you, then put the price up to $7 or $10 ect...to compensate.

Also another way that could cut down on your packets being shared on other forums is by ending the "first packet free offer". I would guess, and it is just a guess, that members on other forums are subscribing and then un-subscribing from your WSO each month after you update the packet being offered for free. Then sharing those packets on other forums. You could put more emphasis on the results your subscribers have been getting rather than drawing people in with a free packet. You have plenty of glowing testimonials for it.

Don't take the above as me trying to tell you how to run your business. The above is just my opinion and suggestions.


Belinda (belgirl),

Originally Posted by belgirl

OK, "hasta la vista" everyone. What was started as a thread that I thought would be helpful and informative has turned into a meaningless shouting match. Way too much testosterone floating around. I'm done. Have fun.

You say your done with this thread because it's turned into a "shouting match" but your last contribution was to change the thread title. To one which will help provoke that "shouting match" to continue and/or escalate. Nice job


Joe,

Originally Posted by Joe118

In fact, if I was a real hard core spammer, the *last thing on earth* I'd do is use sites in your packets -- hell would freeze over before I'd join your crowd of clueless newbies and risk my postings being deleted. Spammers try to avoid notice and detection, and joining your stampede is a stupid thing for a real spammer to do.

You do realize you probably just insulted a couple of thousand or more forum members with that statement...don't you? Being one of Angela's subscribers doesn't mean I am (or anyone else) is a "clueless newbie". I for one am well aware of what am doing and why I buy these packets. While the packets are still effective. I can just pay Angela $5 instead of spending more of my time or money researching. I also use other link sources and have my own database of links. Your making assumptions about a large group of people you don't know. Not a good idea.

BTW, I would say most of us are not "hard core" spammers and don't want to be either.


-Paul

[dadaas]

I see many people here talking offtopic.

Just wanted to ask how did that guy go.
Did you earn anything from that panic attack.

@those that are sceptic.
You guys dont know what SEO is.
Who are best SEO experts? Answer me this question. Who you think out there are best SEO experts? I mean webmasters that are involved into what niche?

Every decent webmaster knows whos best SEO experts.

[djbory]

Originally Posted by Joe118

Changing Title Meta Tag can hurt Google Rankings | Google Success SEO SEM Tips

Example of how easy it actually *is* for google to shut down anything they dont like. Granted, this is on-page SEO, not off-page, so it's a lot easier to determine what's happening.

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

Thank you for posting that, Joe. However, all I see is a blog post and some comments. I don't see any type of evidence, showing that what this person is saying is true. He hasn't linked to anything or shown any kind of proof that what he's saying is right. So once again, all we have is "someone said". Just like most of the things we keep hearing about backlinks and SEO.

P.S. I changed my "Angela" page title tag to Angela/Angela from Aberdeen and then back to Angela from Aberdeen. None of that hurt my rankings.

'WHAT JOEL SAID IS very much TRUE - IT JUST HAPPENED TO ME'

One of my sites was on first page of GOOGLE for several KW’s. Last night I changed the title metta tag to include one more keyword I wanted to optimize the site for...

I came to this thread as every morning, saw Joel comment and went back to change my title tag the way it was, but Google already had cached the page and now I went from first page of Google to second page for all my keywords...This is bad guys, don't ever do that....

I hope my site doesn't slip down even more... I'm starting a very aggressive backlink campaign to see if I can bring it back t first page... this is very upsetting... If I just had read Joel the comment before...

DLBory

[Joe118]

If anyone feels insulted by me, I apologize. I am not trying to insult anyone. If I did, it's entirely un-intentional and through badly worded postings.

[mikeong88]

Seriously, even if Angela increased this package to an ridiculous price, it won't work.

Even a mere 100 customers would sound off the spam-alarm of that particular community, the problem is with the

1. SPAM resistant nature of that website
(how do you predict the emotion/character of that particular webmaster, moderators, enthusiastic loyal members?)

2. the way information flow is designed
(you can forget about that website if the homepage places an emphasis on showing the latest members and their comments/blogs)

The only way to solve this issue is to Differentiate or Filter out the websites that are SPAM-resistant and sites that are not.

Food for your thoughts

[mikeong88]

Originally Posted by djbory

'WHAT JOEL SAID IS very much TRUE - IT JUST HAPPENED TO ME'

One of my sites was on first page of GOOGLE for several KW’s. Last night I changed the title metta tag to include one more keyword I wanted to optimize the site for...

I came to this thread as every morning, saw Joel comment and went back to change my title tag the way it was, but Google already had cached the page and now I went from first page of Google to second page for all my keywords...This is bad guys, don't ever do that....

I hope my site doesn't slip down even more... I'm starting a very aggressive backlink campaign to see if I can bring it back t first page... this is very upsetting... If I just had read Joel the comment before...

DLBory

Try having 15% - 20% of your high authority backlinks removed...

You will have a SHOCK of your life...try dropping 3-5 pages

I just managed to get the site right back to page 1 today with another packet of Angela+Paul backlinks... hahahaha...

[4morereferrals]

I did it ... as my dexcription meta was not all that hot and the keywords I was optimizing for where not that hot for traffic volume ... either.

Made some minor changes to improve the On Page [ i think ] ...

kept building links ... google danced me around a bit - yes ... but ... kept building links and came back even stronger.

Certainly Sub Optimal to do this - but "may not" be the end of the world.

YMMV ...

Originally Posted by djbory

'WHAT JOEL SAID IS very much TRUE - IT JUST HAPPENED TO ME'

One of my sites was on first page of GOOGLE for several KW’s. Last night I changed the title metta tag to include one more keyword I wanted to optimize the site for...

I came to this thread as every morning, saw Joel comment and went back to change my title tag the way it was, but Google already had cached the page and now I went from first page of Google to second page for all my keywords...This is bad guys, don't ever do that....

I hope my site doesn't slip down even more... I'm starting a very aggressive backlink campaign to see if I can bring it back t first page... this is very upsetting... If I just had read Joel the comment before...

DLBory

[4morereferrals]

Who are best SEO experts? Answer me this question. Who you think out there are best SEO experts? I mean webmasters that are involved into what niche?

If you can rank terms in the insurance niche's - I think you gots some chops

Car Insurance / Auto Insurance / Life Insurance / Health Insurance

Info I rec'd indicates GEICO spends $475k a DAY across the net. That does not include their TV media ad spends.

But hey ... they cut out the middle - man and 15% ! [ evil agents ] LOL

And ... replaced them with less knowledgeable order takers and a only slightly lessor evil Ad Agency.

Im not biased ... or bitter ....

[jendoe]

*blink* Wow.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but... I find it ironic that some of the "more experienced" folks honestly don't seem to realize how bad their posts sound to us "less experienced" folks (yes, newbs!). There are people replying in this thread that, honestly, I had considered buying from - and now won't. Sorry if it sounds harsh or rude, but it's the truth...

Angela, I actually think that your responses so far reflect well on you - you must have an infinite supply of patience and after all this, I like you even more.

It's really a shame this thread has gone down this road. It's become un-usable for its original purpose of comparing results (who has time to read through 25 pages of vitriol) and whether or not you think Angela's service is good, it would have been really useful, especially for us newbies, to be able to see what kind of results people were getting and to have actual tips on how to do better.

I also think some of the more experienced people may be forgetting how tough it can be to just be starting out, to feel completely overwhelmed and clueless, to be bombarded with a million offers, many that cost hundreds of dollars (but "how can you afford not to buy this! You'll make so much!"), and worse - to spend months (or years) trying, trying, trying and just not getting "it" and not seeing any results, despite spending money and every free moment of your time.

What is *great* about Angela's method is that it's very cheap and easy to test. $5 to sign up is nothing (sandwiches in my neighborhood cost more!). You can see if it works for yourself with very little investment of time and money.

And, even better, for us new people - it's easy to understand. I can see the whole process from start to end, and it takes me a couple days, rather than months or years to get it in place and see results. That's really really really helpful.

If it turns out it's not *optimal* - so what? I'm just starting out, I'm not expecting perfection! I'm expecting this will be a learning process, and that I'll learn something from going through all this with the backlinks, and whereever I end up with the next project, this will be another little piece of the puzzle in my head.

If I get even ONE sale from this method, it will be totally worth it. If you're not brand new to IM, then that's probably not true for you. But from where I am, 1 sale is EVERYTHING. One sale means - it IS possible. One sale would give me a ridiculous amount of hope right now, which, again as an exhausted newbie, I desperately need.

Sorry for venting. But, there ya go. Cheers! I'm off to go work on the backlinking some more and see if I can boost up my little article. Right now, I don't think it's anywhere in the top 100 or so (and I didn't look further than that!)... but I started just this morning, and haven't gotten too far yet. So, if you don't totally hate me after this post, send me a little lucky energy Thanks!

[askloz]

You're missing the point jendoe. It has nothing to do with how good Angela's service is, I'm sure it's good, I don't think anyone is denying that. She comes across as a very nice lady and I'm sure all of us can agree.

It's also got nothing to do with the price she's charging either.

It's all about in the manner of getting these links and giving them out. Someone said on this thread that backlinking isn't all about SEO? Well, if backlinks aren't just the answer, what else is, ok, onpage optimization, very possible, yes, but takes a long time to rank for a phrase that's hard to rank for without any back links, long tailed keywords, very easily done.

What else is there? There isn't. Onpage and Offpage, that's all there is.

Tell me this. Is it ethical, honest, to jump on a site and blast your links on without permission? That's link spamming in anyone's book.

Forums don't ask you to place a link, yet many join a forum and place a signature with a link in it, make a post, then move on to the next one. I've seen it happen every day on Brad Callen's forum that I moderate. Most just leave worthless posts or dig up really old posts and say "thanks for the information", or they try their best to ask a question, then a few days later, someone else will join the forum and answer it who also has a link in their signature file. And the most posts they make is 3 and they're not to be seen again - amongst other strategies I've seen. I wasn't born yesterday I know all the tactics people use. I was guilty of doing it myself. Until one day it started happening to me with 100's of people joining my forum every day that I had to delete. It pissed me off. So i started putting myself in others shoes.

But it's not just about that, publicly offering a service to get back links may seem a honest business. But what about these poor sods who own these sites who have to remove all those nonsense posts? Is our time more valuable than theirs?

What about all the people out there who do get backlinks who keep it to themselves where they get them from, then later to find all their links are now worthless because the major search engines have devalued the links? EDU and GOV sites are now devalued, they used to hold a LOT of value, not any more, all domain extensions are treated the same now.

Take a look at Traffic Geyser where he offered a service to send out your video to numerous video social sites, like Youtube, who now have put nofollow attributes on all the 3rd party links. It's having services like these that just ruin it for everyone else in the business of getting high page rankings.

Boasting or either offering a service where you get links from is like burying your business six foot under before it's even been given the chance to succeed. It makes it harder for everyone else to find alternatives to get those high rankings.

Stuff like this should be kept to one's self. Angela will be better off just SHOWING people how to do it, rather than giving all these links out there for people to use. Make the Search engines work harder to find these links, don't make their job easier.

[Carl Pruitt]

Originally Posted by djbory

'WHAT JOEL SAID IS very much TRUE - IT JUST HAPPENED TO ME'

One of my sites was on first page of GOOGLE for several KW’s. Last night I changed the title metta tag to include one more keyword I wanted to optimize the site for...

I came to this thread as every morning, saw Joel comment and went back to change my title tag the way it was, but Google already had cached the page and now I went from first page of Google to second page for all my keywords...This is bad guys, don't ever do that....

I hope my site doesn't slip down even more... I'm starting a very aggressive backlink campaign to see if I can bring it back t first page... this is very upsetting... If I just had read Joel the comment before...

DLBory

I have more than a few sites where I have changed titles/tags and rankings have gone up or stayed the same. Some where the rankings dropped. Just out of curiosity, what would be Google's rationale for completely ditching a site over such a small change? Common sense would indicate that if the new title and the content were still relevant to each other, and the change didn't change the meaning of the title as Google's algorithm saw it, then other factors were at play.

[Jeremy123]

yeeeaaaah let's git her guuuuyyyys lol ha ha, ha ha

sorry had to say that when I saw the title of this thread

it cracked me up

seriously, these backlinks work, just keep it simple

[hommi_16]

ALL GOOD THINGS COME TO AN END

Let me just start off by saying that my dealings with Angela have been great. I contacted her last months because I didn't get my packet via e-mail and she responded to me both on the forum and as to me e-mail as well. She is a pleasure to deal with.

I'm going to say that for the past few months I've only been using her backlinks. At first my sites had a very good jump in the SERPS then they got buried deep (for over a month) and just a few days ago they came back although not as strong as before but better then before I used her links.

I have the same concerns as many people here are expressing and I do think it needs some serious thought. As more and more people are getting these links it is inevitable that something will go wrong. You maybe right Angela! The sites you offer are high traffic sites which probably do get a ton of people joining on a daily basis. But realistically, how many of those people who are finding those sites naturally are actually doing so for backlinking? Heck, I find it even strange that those people will leave any type of signature/bio... never mind links!

I know that sometimes we can get blindsided when something we did has been such a success but I really do think that at one point or another we will all have to move on. Until then I will continue using your backlinks. It's your business and you run it the way you want to but I really think you should heed the advice which many have expressed.

[lyrickat21]

I don't know if this is relevant to this question, but did you submit your url to google manually in order for them to index your site? That is the best way to get your site indexed. Your backlinks should start working after your site has been indexed, but be patient, at the beginning stages of a new website your results can fluctuate. Believe me I know!

I am not allowed to post links yet because I just joined the site, but do a google search for google site submission and you should find the page you need to manually submit your site.

[Jeremy123]

The packets work though it would be nice if there was a limit,
now a new service is coming out which will automate this process even more.

People will really have to make sure they add value to where they post
their links, whether it is a blog, comment, or edit profile, otherwise your wasting time.

I personally only use the packets that have a blog and a blog roll, then I add
content to the blog and add links to the blogroll. I don't see how a webmaster
would not like this, spam comments I can understand, 1 or 2 links in a profile

I think are ok, but if the webmaster checked them and saw the user never came back
then I'd be suspicious, though what webmaster has the time to check.

there is a lot of software that help you find sites for blogging and commenting,
people could spam those to, and no one is complaining.

also these packets should be a part of your overall link building process,
not the entire process

people lets not get too bend out of shape about this stuff,
you can just cancel, and build links another way

[daveshu]

I have the same problem Franco.

I used the packets on some of my sites & a customers site. At first all was good, all the sites performed well.

Now my customers site is gone. It disappeared for a week, came back for 1 day, and has now been gone for another week.

He isn't best pleased & I'm cacking my pants in case I've killed it.

I can search for site:www(dot)hisdomain(dot)com keyword1 keyword2 & it appears in the results - so it isn't de-indexed, but it isn't showing in the results anymore & it's costing him money - & might be costing me money too before long - eek!

[Jeremy123]

submit good articles to the article directories, squidoo, hubpages, blogger, ect

the packets should not be your only link building strategy.

I made 6 new sites recently, paid someone to submit them to 100 directories,
and drove 5 of Angelas backlinks to the home page, and got some rankings according
to webmaster tools.

Then later my site stopped getting the little traffic it was,
imo new sites should get links from article directories because they
are highly indexed.

I will try this theory soon with other new sites.

Create your own link building strategy and network

Angelas backlinks
directory submissions
article directories
web 2.0 submissions
bookmarking
submitting rss feeds
link exchanges
article exchanges
press releases

make a plan and stick to it,
this is most people's problem

there are too many launches, new products, different things to learn,
new emails, so many distractions

for seo you have two jobs ADDING ARTICLES AND GETTING LINKS

that is it, after a while for a content site the rankings and traffic will be stable

one of my sites makes $20+ a day in adsense

I've bought different products sometimes for $1,000,

and then I think what caused me to have this money for a $1000 product

my content adsense sites, I should be investing in more articles and getting more links.

At least until I have a full time income.

so get your butt to work doing what works for you, now.

this poor guy...

http://www.freedomideas.com/my-journ...000-per-month/

he worked his butt off, and after asking him for an update
he is STUCK for 6 months at $20,000 a month.

nice problem eh..

[Fernando Veloso]

Guys:

Just a piece of advice here and no intention to piss off anyone, but think about this:

- Using Angela's links (or others for that matter) does not give you bad rankings, otherwise this would be a open war with competitors using these links, spamming websites and killing their competition.

No way this is happening, or it will going to happen in future. Ok?

So if your site went down, better ask yourself what have you done besides the link campaign. But please, please, please, don't act like a 4 year old blaming link campaigns to your lousy results.

[terryd]

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Guys:

Just a piece of advice here and no intention to piss off anyone, but think about this:

- Using Angela's links (or others for that matter) does not give you bad rankings, otherwise this would be a open war with competitors using these links, spamming websites and killing their competition.

No way this is happening, or it will going to happen in future. Ok?

So if your site went down, better ask yourself what have you done besides the link campaign. But please, please, please, don't act like a 4 year old blaming link campaigns to your lousy results.

Spot on!.....you hit the nail on the head.

Think about it!

It would be oh so easy to destroy the competition if that was all you had to do!

I just think you guys are looking for excuses for your poorly performing results.

[Pat Jackson]

Originally Posted by Franco Mocke

Buried deep? My site is nowwhere to be seen for almost three weeks now, I do hope mine also comes back

So you keep saying but what have you been doing whilst waiting for it to come back?

If you just sit there doing nothing waiting for it to come back you're going to be in for a long wait.

Just keep building links to your site and you'll see it back soon enough.

[mikeong88]

Originally Posted by daveshu

I have the same problem Franco.

I used the packets on some of my sites & a customers site. At first all was good, all the sites performed well.

Now my customers site is gone. It disappeared for a week, came back for 1 day, and has now been gone for another week.

He isn't best pleased & I'm cacking my pants in case I've killed it.

I can search for site:www(dot)hisdomain(dot)com keyword1 keyword2 & it appears in the results - so it isn't de-indexed, but it isn't showing in the results anymore & it's costing him money - & might be costing me money too before long - eek!

It is possible that the backlinks you built have been removed.

Another possible reason is your on-page factor. Do they look spammy in Google's eyes?

The newer and less authority your site is , the more impact those Authority backlinks will have.

Google will take away "the points" that those sites gave you and that will affect your rankings. Whoever drive you up CAN bring you down...It is not a penalty but consider it as re-calculation process.

I have written some of my observations for the past two months using Angela and Paul packages.

The Angela Experiment: aka Let's gang up on Angela thread

Take note that you can make up for those "lost points" by finding more equal-weight backlinks. I have managed to drive some of those affected sites back up the ranking again...Not there yet but almost.

Thats the reason why I mention that Angela's sites can be a Double-Edged weapon..

[mikeong88]

Originally Posted by Franco Mocke

No not really, you see, if your site ranks for about 6 keywords in the top 20 results, and then the next day your site are not even in the top 100 pages for ANY keyword, then I will NOT call it poor performing results, but something else.

I agree Google can't penalise your website, but I have my theory and no one will believe me so I'll just hold my mouth and let the "experts" decide what is real and what is not

Just shoot pal...Forget about Theories...there are so many of them here..

50% of them don't hold credit after I tried implementing and testing them...

What WE need are FACTs...true experiences...

[terryd]

Originally Posted by Franco Mocke

No not really, you see, if your site ranks for about 6 keywords in the top 20 results, and then the next day your site are not even in the top 100 pages for ANY keyword, then I will NOT call it poor performing results, but something else.

I agree Google can't penalise your website, but I have my theory and no one will believe me so I'll just hold my mouth and let the "experts" decide what is real and what is not

If your theory involves being penalized for using Angelas link packages then I think it's wrong personally.

For it to be that easy to push competitors sites off Google would be beyond comprehension.

I personally think it's just part of Google doing what it does.

I've had a site only 2 weeks ago that was around 3rd position in a high competition key phrase for almost 2 years and then all of a sudden it got booted to the 4th page, why? I have no idea but it doesn't worry me. I'll just slowly build more links because I know it's on page factors are better than the competition and eventually I'll end up back in the top 5.

[terryd]

Originally Posted by Franco Mocke

but no one will ever know what is really going on

That's right on the money, the only ones who really know are those people working behind the Google doors. Everything else are just theories...

[terryd]

Originally Posted by Franco Mocke

But the problem is before I started building links very fast this never happened before.

Are you sure that this isn't the problem itself?

Building links quickly (again theorized) is a way to get penalized in Google.

There are so many factors that can play into why your site shot down the rankings or vanished.

I think a herd mentality came into play here a little bit. One person said "I used your link package and my site disappeared", someone else joined in, then another and yet another before you know it Angelas link package MUST have been the reason.

I've used a couple of Angelas link packages and all my sites have had positive results, Pauls link packages as well.

[terryd]

Originally Posted by Franco Mocke

Then I could do the same to my competitor. That is the mentality hanging around here, and the most experienced marketers on this forum says you can't build links fast enough manually to get penalised. I think they are right, and I also believed that and still believe it, will see if my opinion changes in the future.

But again you could get just as many of the experienced marketers here saying that you can build links fast enough to get penalized, it's like a never ending merry-go-round.

Again it's all theory...

A better question could be that if we both used Angelas links, why did your site vanish while my sites went up the rankings?

[JakeRhodes]

I've been using Angela (and Paul's) backlinks packs and I've seen my website rise from the second page onto the first page for a one word search term with over 9 million results.

However I also use RSS directories, article submission, social bookmarking, blog commenting and many other methods of getting backlinks. I think it's important to vary your methods so it doesn't look too much like you're marketing in a "spammy" way.

[reapr]

Originally Posted by JakeRhodes

I've been using Angela (and Paul's) backlinks packs and I've seen my website rise from the second page onto the first page for a one word search term with over 9 million results.

However I also use RSS directories, article submission, social bookmarking, blog commenting and many other methods of getting backlinks. I think it's important to vary your methods so it doesn't look too much like you're marketing in a "spammy" way.

I agree with this post. I use all the methods listed above and have not had one issue. With good links and using the methods above above and in this thread many people can get on page one for even competitive words out of 2-3 or even 5 million results.

I am going to have to jump in here. Angelas packet is very reasonable and anyone who does not get the packet is loosing out big time.

[4morereferrals]

Back to the original experiment ... I have a conclusion.

The OP - Belgirl had selected a keyword phrase:

panic attack heart symptoms

What a stroke of bad luck and ... perhaps a little inexperience. It's clear to me that - after creating a BLOG hxxp://panicattackheartsymptons.com - that is admittedly crap - but only for this test... AND backlinking over 150 sites to it randomly over 3 weeks ... Google is doing a bit of logic on its own. Google also seems to HATE that blog - LOL. Its put 10 different POS blog post articles I spun and placed on different backlink sites from my report - on page 1 in various places .. 4-8. Sometimes there were 2 pieces of content off these sites on page one for this phrase ... my WP blog - Page 10 or or worse. Never sniffed Page 1.

I believe google is seeing panic attack heart symptoms - exactly the same as Panic HEART ATTACK symptoms, or better yet - instead of ... panic attack heart symptoms.

Why?

Because lessor SEO'd pages - both on and off ... are showing up ahead of ANYTHING Ive put out there and ahead of belgirls stuff too ... but the weak optimization it does have is for "panic heart attack symptoms".


Ohhh and .... there's nothing wrong with Angela's and Pauls links - just the people that use them and/or abuse them. Kinda like Guns Dont Kill People - People Do. The ditribution model has some warts ... but that could be fixed ... lets all take a deep breath ... relax ... it's friday!

Unlike you full timers - I look forward to working on the IM biz for 2.5 solid days in less than 3 hrs .... wooot woooot !

[AdamWB]

I haven't read a lot of these posts, but I can see where all this is going.

I've been using Angela's links for quite some time now on dozens of websites, and I can tell you that in the long run they honestly do work.

Yes your site will go up, go down, go up, dissapear, go down, dissapear, etc etc. It's normal, and don't blame Angela's links on the normal movement of google.

To this day, I have never had a site banned or *not* reach top rankings (meaning they are all top ranked) with Angela's links. And I have a lot of websites.

Granted it does take awhile, don't expect to have #1 position in 2 days and it stay there indefefinitely. Yes I've had it happen, but it's rare.

Bottom line: If you're not getting the results you want, don't blame Angela's links. There are so many other factors that go into whether you rank or not, or if your site is moving in a negative direction.

[daveshu]

Originally Posted by mikeong88

It is possible that the backlinks you built have been removed.

Another possible reason is your on-page factor. Do they look spammy in Google's eyes?

The newer and less authority your site is , the more impact those Authority backlinks will have.

Google will take away "the points" that those sites gave you and that will affect your rankings. Whoever drive you up CAN bring you down...It is not a penalty but consider it as re-calculation process.

I have written some of my observations for the past two months using Angela and Paul packages.

Take note that you can make up for those "lost points" by finding more equal-weight backlinks. I have managed to drive some of those affected sites back up the ranking again...Not there yet but almost.

Thats the reason why I mention that Angela's sites can be a Double-Edged weapon..

No it isn't possible the links have been removed since I added links to around 5 sites at a time & the other 4 are doing well.

The on page isn't spammy, it's very good. I re-optimised his site a few weeks ago & it went from nowhere to 9th in a very competitive niche for the main keyword, & higher for others.

It isn't a new site, it's an established one that was well enough liked by Google to have sitelinks added - I always think thats a sign that G likes it.

It isn't that the backlinks have been removed & it's dropped in the rankings, it isn't showing in the serps at all for any of the keywords. If I do the www(dot)site(dot)com keyword keyword then all pages are still indexed.

I suspect that the combination of overhauling the site structure & internal linking, plus adding external links has caused Google to remove it from the serps for some reason.

Whether its sandboxed or just being reassessed I don't know, but I have noticed that the sitelinks have changed - there are now 3 instead of 6, and one of them is one of the new pages.

I'm hoping it's just being reassessed & not penalised.

It maybe also doesn't help that the customers webguy has left the old pages up as well as adding the new ones & not 301d them to the new pages as I suggested, and that G reports 44 urls that cannot be found (the restructure changed some of the urls).

I'm not saying that the backlinks have definitely caused my current problem, but I think the combination of lots of things happening suddenly may have been the cause.

I just hope it reappears shortly & that Google isn't penalising it in some way.


Any thoughts on this please?

[adamv]

Originally Posted by eBusiness Sellers

sounds like fun

What sounds like fun exactly? Increasing your post count? Is that what sounds like fun?

When's the WSO coming out? You're almost to 30 posts, keep 'em comming, you're almost there.

[zerofill]

Originally Posted by adamv

What sounds like fun exactly? Increasing your post count? Is that what sounds like fun?

When's the WSO coming out? You're almost to 30 posts, keep 'em comming, you're almost there.

Sounds like he got caught actually LOL

[terryd]

Originally Posted by eBusiness Sellers

sounds like fun

Will be great once he releases his WSO then everyone can see the idiotic posts he made to get to 30.......

[Best Affiliate]

Originally Posted by Franco Mocke

Buried deep? My site is nowwhere to be seen for almost three weeks now, I do hope mine also comes back

I would also like to add that for your client that if he is a brick and mortar client in a city then you need to get as many local links as possible. Get links from chamber of commerce, superpages, insider pages, yellow pages, local directories, american towns, local.com, google local, yahoo local, bing local.

Angelas links shouldn't be your only method to get your links. Use this search to find relevant blogs for blog commenting: copy and paste this into google search .... "your keywords" Enter YourName@yourkeywords in the name field to take advantage. For example click here to see how it looks for panic attack blogs.

On another thread there is a guy who talks about how he makes over 15k per month with adsense sites. All he does is write articles to ezine articles for the most part. But he doesnt always write articles in his own niche. Look for the most popular categores and add your link to the bio box. Take your time and write a great quality article that any website owner would want to publish on their site. Imagine if your article gets picked up by a couple hundred blog and site owners? This is my next strategy. If it works for this guy then I am going to test it out as well.

Another thing you should do is join Free traffic system where you can write an article and submit it to 30 blogs. And its a free service. I just started using it myself but with only 3 articles I have almost 90 back links now and from a couple of high page ranking blogs.

Do all of this stuff in combination with angelas links and you should be ok. Lastly, I tried a strategy with angelas and pauls links. as I created new profiles I linked the previous one I created to the new one and the new one to the previous one. I did this with a package of pauls links for a new review blog in the relationship niche for a very competitive keyword and I jumped from nowhere to the 3rd page. Everyone knows that the "get your ex back" niche is super competitive but Im going to give this another month using all of these strategies and see what happens.

Anyway thats my two cents. good Luck!

[Crafty Blogger]

Originally Posted by Best Affiliate

I would also like to add that for your client that if he is a brick and mortar client in a city then you need to get as many local links as possible. Get links from chamber of commerce, superpages, insider pages, yellow pages, local directories, american towns, local.com, google local, yahoo local, bing local.

Angelas links shouldn't be your only method to get your links. Use this search to find relevant blogs for blog commenting: copy and paste this into google search .... "your keywords" Enter YourName@yourkeywords in the name field to take advantage. For example to see how it looks for panic attack blogs.

On another thread there is a guy who talks about how he makes over 15k per month with adsense sites. All he does is write articles to ezine articles for the most part. But he doesnt always write articles in his own niche. Look for the most popular categores and add your link to the bio box. Take your time and write a great quality article that any website owner would want to publish on their site. Imagine if your article gets picked up by a couple hundred blog and site owners? This is my next strategy. If it works for this guy then I am going to test it out as well.

Another thing you should do is join Free traffic system where you can write an article and submit it to 30 blogs. And its a free service. I just started using it myself but with only 3 articles I have almost 90 back links now and from a couple of high page ranking blogs.

Do all of this stuff in combination with angelas links and you should be ok. Lastly, I tried a strategy with angelas and pauls links. as I created new profiles I linked the previous one I created to the new one and the new one to the previous one. I did this with a package of pauls links for a new review blog in the relationship niche for a very competitive keyword and I jumped from nowhere to the 3rd page. Everyone knows that the "get your ex back" niche is super competitive but Im going to give this another month using all of these strategies and see what happens.

Anyway thats my two cents. good Luck!

This thread is kind of like a train wreck... I find it hard to look away even though I keep telling myself I won't look at it again.

Still, I have learned a lot of useful stuff from a few of the posters on this thread - and this is definitely useful stuff here. Thanks for all the ideas - I never thought of linking the profiles together before. Some great suggestion!

[daveshu]

Well my customers site has reappeared this morning on page 1 - lets see how long it stays up for this time - hopefully for good.

[AnneE]

Update on my own experiment -

Just to recap, since it's highly likely that anyone reading this post will NOT have read every post on the last 26 pages. Seeing Belgirl's original post, I decided too to try out Angela's theory which was basically to find a keyword phrase that had less than 500K competition (withOUT quotes), write an article in Goarticles on the keyword, post 30 links from her backlink packets to the article and the expected outcome was that it should be on the front page (top 10) of Google results for that keyword within a month. So I did this. My site jumped around and hit #5 in Google results about a week after I finished adding backlinks, which was 6/30.
Then it dropped to second page and it has kept on dropping and is now about #150. I know folks say it may bounce around a while. I guess, really if I was supposed to give the links a month, I should wait another week or so.

I am wondering if adding a link every day or two doesn't help maintain your ranking rather than doing them all in one shot. I keep seeing a pattern of a big jump and then a steady slide back lower in the rankings. Then I'll add a new link and see another big jump.

My own feeling is that the backlinks are a substantial assist and I'll continue to add them, but so far, unfortunately I have NOT found a guaranteed winning formula of:

this level-of-competition + this kind of website + this many backlinks = Google SUCCESS!!
What this and another WSO have done is make me more aware of a few lower-competition niches AND a couple ways of boosting search engine results quickly. And while I'm not finding them as easy pickings as I'd like, I'm still trying 4 - 6 (I've got 4 done and hope to do 2 more) of these niches to see if any other them are winners.

[4morereferrals]

Thanks for theinfo and update annie ...

May result in a waste of time - but the next niche you select, it might be better to do one where you dont care about the other knowing what it is so more folks can add assistance and knowledge.

It would be interesting to see the characters on page one currently for this niche - what their backlinks look like [ say top 5 ], how their pages are optimized etc ...

I also feel... the idea that you could throw - an arbitrary # of backlinks at a site/keyword phrase and let it go - and expect good ranking might be a fallacy as well. Gotta keep building, competitors never sleep.

For the term backlinks .... angela has 2,200 backlinks ... divided by 30 - would take you 73 months to get close.

Originally Posted by AnneE

Update on my own experiment -

Just to recap, since it's highly likely that anyone reading this post will NOT have read every post on the last 26 pages. Seeing Belgirl's original post, I decided too to try out Angela's theory which was basically to find a keyword phrase that had less than 500K competition (withOUT quotes), write an article in Goarticles on the keyword, post 30 links from her backlink packets to the article and the expected outcome was that it should be on the front page (top 10) of Google results for that keyword within a month. So I did this. My site jumped around and hit #5 in Google results about a week after I finished adding backlinks, which was 6/30.
Then it dropped to second page and it has kept on dropping and is now about #150. I know folks say it may bounce around a while. I guess, really if I was supposed to give the links a month, I should wait another week or so.

I am wondering if adding a link every day or two doesn't help maintain your ranking rather than doing them all in one shot. I keep seeing a pattern of a big jump and then a steady slide back lower in the rankings. Then I'll add a new link and see another big jump.

My own feeling is that the backlinks are a substantial assist and I'll continue to add them, but so far, unfortunately I have NOT found a guaranteed winning formula of:

this level-of-competition + this kind of website + this many backlinks = Google SUCCESS!!
What this and another WSO have done is make me more aware of a few lower-competition niches AND a couple ways of boosting search engine results quickly. And while I'm not finding them as easy pickings as I'd like, I'm still trying 4 - 6 (I've got 4 done and hope to do 2 more) of these niches to see if any other them are winners.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Anne,

Try to build some different links along with the packet...Maybe some bookmarking with socialbot or even Join Ken Frys bookmarking club. If you get a variety of links, you will probably get a nice boost.

If you want, send me a PM with what your working on and I'll try to help you out a bit.

Jeremy

[truepers]

Diversification, moderation, patience... Jeremy123, great advice! We all get greedy, want instant gratification.

Here's my experience. Read about Angela's packets, got the freebie 30 backlinks for July, sat down at my laptop this morning, started scanning the forums looking for insights, ideas, strategies to best implement this tactic. Instead got this tsunami of abuse heaped upon one person.

Could you blame Angela for getting defensive?

I'm not saying valid questions about her product haven't been raised. In fact, I haven't used one of her sites yet, not until I get a better understanding of how to use them, and I may cancel my subscription unless Angela, or someone with experience in this type of thing, provides some clearer guidelines on how to safely (relatively speaking) use her backlinks (which to avoid, how often to link, etc.).

[Joe118]

You've put your finger on the problem EXACTLY. You can be safe all you want, if there are enough bad apples in the bin they will take you down with them no matter how well you behave.

Angela has already done a fantastic job explaining how best to use her link packets. This is the crux of the problem: there's no way for her to enforce that her advice will be followed, and in fact a lot of evidence exists that her advice is being ignored by many.

You can therefore follow Angela's advice -- it won't help you.

I did not see any personal abuse of her here, only criticism (whether justified or not) directed at her PRODUCT. One more time: if I said anything that hurted anyone's feeling or could be taken as personal abuse, then I apologize personally to each and everyone of you.

Originally Posted by truepers

Diversification, moderation, patience... Jeremy123, great advice! We all get greedy, want instant gratification.

...

I'm not saying valid questions about her product haven't been raised. In fact, I haven't used one of her sites yet, not until I get a better understanding of how to use them, and I may cancel my subscription unless Angela, or someone with experience in this type of thing, provides some clearer guidelines on how to safely (relatively speaking) use her backlinks (which to avoid, how often to link, etc.).

[Doug D]

Yes Joe, as a customer of Angela's, I cried like a little school girl...when you said I was a clueless noob. But I called my momma and she assured me that I wasn't, so I think I'm ok now.

Also-You say that the criticism was of her product and not of her.
I think most of us, yourself included, really weren't criticizing her or her product, but rather....the distribution method, and lack of willingness to acknowledge a potential present or future problem.
Of course, most of what is going to happen after the release ea. month, is out of her control anyway, regardless of distribution levels etc.

Originally Posted by Joe118

You've put your finger on the problem EXACTLY. You can be safe all you want, if there are enough bad apples in the bin they will take you down with them no matter how well you behave.

Angela has already done a fantastic job explaining how best to use her link packets. This is the crux of the problem: there's no way for her to enforce that her advice will be followed, and in fact a lot of evidence exists that her advice is being ignored by many.

You can therefore follow Angela's advice -- it won't help you.

I did not see any personal abuse of her here, only criticism (whether justified or not) directed at her PRODUCT. One more time: if I said anything that hurted anyone's feeling or could be taken as personal abuse, then I apologize personally to each and everyone of you.

[Doug D]

How's that going anyway? I know you indicated a positive experience a couple weeks ago? Just curious of your impressions today, and how significant an impact you feel that it can have? (Assuming of course, one is doing the other things that one should be doing)
I am referring to Ken's program by the way, which I suppose I could have told you in my first sentence.
Things like: Have you seen evidence of *some* of them actually getting indexed? (Which I have yet to really witness with another service that I have used)
So, just curious?

Thanks man,
Doug

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Anne,

Try to build some different links along with the packet...Maybe some bookmarking with socialbot or even Join Ken Frys bookmarking club. If you get a variety of links, you will probably get a nice boost.

If you want, send me a PM with what your working on and I'll try to help you out a bit.

Jeremy

[willsmith]

Originally Posted by Doug D

I am referring to Ken's program by the way, which I suppose I could have told you in my first sentence.
Things like: Have you seen evidence of *some* of them actually getting indexed? (Which I have yet to really witness with another service that I have used)
So, just curious?

Doug, I am a member of Ken's program, and yes, in fact the program works quite well. One of my websites I submitted to the program finally worked it's way to search results page 1, position 1 on big G. Not only that, one of the bookmarks created during the program was also sitting at position 10 on page one for several days. So, yes it works.

[askloz]

Originally Posted by Doug D

Yes Joe, as a customer of Angela's, I cried like a little school girl...when you said I was a clueless noob. But I called my momma and she assured me that I wasn't, so I think I'm ok now.

LMFAO too funny.

Originally Posted by Doug D

Also-You say that the criticism was of her product and not of her.
I think most of us, yourself included, really weren't criticizing her or her product, but rather....the distribution method, and lack of willingness to acknowledge a potential present or future problem.

Exactly, amazing at how many just take the wrong end of the stick.

[funky_budha]

this is cool. I will lock on this, since i have heard of angela and paul's so much that i too want to know if it does really work.

[bgmacaw]

Originally Posted by Franco Mocke

I did about 150 angela and paul backlinks to one of my sites, now, why don't any of them show in the yahoo site explorer? Blog and other links usually show up within two days, and I've done those links a MONTH ago.

Probably because those pages haven't been visited by the Yahoo bot. It's rather slow compared to Google bot. Also, if there are no public links pointing to the profile, it might never get visited. The 'bots rarely spider an entire forum or Web 2.0 site all at once in order to save time so it's quite likely your profile hasn't even been visited yet, especially if you haven't posted on that forum.

Basically, don't worry about when your links are going to show up. It can be a long wait for a bus that doesn't show up.

[kaizen0909]

I am brand spanking new here. Read every single one of the 1288 posts and I can say its an absolutely brilliant thread. But for the wrong reasons.

I have learnt so much and for that thank you all. Expecially Angela and belgirl.

I am in the process of developing my online business and I am in a very competitive market, but I have already, due to this thread, found competitive keywords I can possibly make a difference with. Hooray I hear you shout!

I have read and understood the process angela promotes through backlinking (as do you all), however her method links to articles/her site to promote her own website.

My e-commerce site (to match my bricks and mortar business) isn't finished yet and I just wanted to check whether its best for me to have a finished site with content to promote, or just start bulding the rank for the single/blog page I have up already (its been optimised for my keywords already)

Did I mention 8hrs to read this whole thread completel and follow every link?

yes, my wife is not happy!

THanks in advance for your replies

[jendoe]

Thanks Loz, your response does help me understand a bit more where you guys are coming from.

I can appreciate the fact that with so many people posting at the same sites, it's getting noticed by the webmasters more, although I don't understand why, in that case, you guys aren't just as upset at the people who post list of backlinks for free on the forum. Surely these lists have the potential to drive even larger numbers of people to these sites than a service that requires even a nominal fee?

re: The ethics... that's a good question. I can understand how spamming a forum with irrelevant posts is not good (I haven't run a forum, but I've been on enough to know now how disruptive it is when a new person pops in and is only interested in self-promotion. They usually get ripped apart pretty quickly )

But - I'm not clear on how putting a link in a profile or bio page hurts anyone. The page is not in people's faces (they pretty much need to go searching for my profile, I'm not sending it to them - they are requesting it, if they ever see it, which they likely won't!) Further, a profile/bio is by definition "info about me" which may not be relevant to the particular forum, it's about "who am I?".

(My link, as per the "experiment" is also NOT to a sales page. It's to an article on goarticles. Rather than just leave the link, I tend to write a mini-profile, "Here are my interests, or what I"m doing and studying at the moment and by the way, I also like writing. Here's my latest article about my keyword. Enjoy.")

Oh - and fair is fair! If it's not ethical for 100 people to leave a link, then it's not ethical for one person, who finds the page on their own to leave a link either... Either it's ethical or it's not, no matter where the link comes from...

Anyway, you've given me something to think about, so thanks for that!