Payment by results for copywriting?

[RobertSeviour]

I'd love to have strong copy on my website seviourbooks.com, and I would be happy to pay a fair price if the new words result in more sales. The problem is that if the new copy fails to produce those orders then I'm out of pocket with no recourse. I can understand that the copywriter doesn't want to work for nothing, of course.

Has anyone got a formula which protects both sides?

Robert

[Loren Woirhaye]

I can beat your copy - and yes I have a way to protect
both sides in the arrangement. PM me if you are serious
about turning you product into a non-dog.

[ghyphena]

I think the best you'll get is if you manage to negotiate a flat fee + royalties arrangement... but I imagine you'll be hard-pressed to find a copywriter who'll do it on performance alone.

The reason is that so much depends on your product, your offer, the quality (and quantity!) of your leads, and other factors outside the sales copy. If, for example, you don't heavily promote & drive traffic to your site then the copywriter has to wait much, much longer until the royalties cover his usual fee.

Some copywriters offer guarantees in the form of X number of rewrites, or X rewrites within Y days. Kenneth Rearden used to offer a guarantee where he'd rewrite the sales letter for you until you were happy with the conversion rate, but I don't know if he still does that.

Gil-Ad

[ghyphena]

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

I have a way to protect
both sides in the arrangement.

Seems I misspoke. Apologies.

Gil-Ad

[Paul McQuillan]

Hi Robert,

At the beginning of your letter you have an assortment of links to
remove people from the letter. I know you are directing them to
solid info in hopes of maybe building credibility.

Sales letter type pages should not give people multiple options
to stop reading it. Your copywriter will no doubt eliminate those
so it will not be an issue.

I would kill those links while I was looking though.

I have no doubt someone like Loren could really enhance that page
quite easily.

Please come back and share the end result


Paul

[Justin Mandel]

You don't need to worry about being protected since nearly any experienced copywriter would be able to bring in higher conversions then what you are showing your website visitors now

Originally Posted by RobertSeviour

I'd love to have strong copy on my website seviourbooks.com, and I would be happy to pay a fair price if the new words result in more sales. The problem is that if the new copy fails to produce those orders then I'm out of pocket with no recourse. I can understand that the copywriter doesn't want to work for nothing, of course.

Has anyone got a formula which protects both sides?

Robert

[RobertSeviour]

Thanks everybody for the comments.

• I am getting 50 page views per day as things stand from search engines. In your opinion is that enough to have any chance for me to see a return on the fee for professional copywriting?

• I would be happy to see a conversion rate of 1%. Again, do you consider that to be a realistic possibility?

• I accept that if the number of sales is not high, then a copywriter would not get a return fast enough, based on a share of the revenue. A way of dealing with that would be to pay the greater part of his / her fee if the conversion rate increased to an agreed level.

• I appreciate that the copy on my page offers multiple products, from low-cost ebooks, through to big price seminar. Would you suggest that I offer only one product and use the others as add-on or up-sell items?

Robert

[RobertSeviour]

Justin, what's your guess as to a realistic target for the conversion rate.

[RobertSeviour]

ghyphena, I'm intrigued by your use of latin. Are you addressing a niche where that is helpful?

[ghyphena]

Originally Posted by RobertSeviour

Are you addressing a niche where that is helpful?

No, not at all. It is just a little joke

Gil-Ad

[Justin Mandel]

It's hard to say Robert - it's dependent upon many factors, but if you are getting anything less then 2% to 4% (like you are) then IMO it's time for a new sales letter

I brushed through it real quick, but there were so many obvious overwhelming, glaring mistakes - things that you can do to boost conversions that it makes sense that all your getting is that <1% or so

In other words have a copywriter/marketer go through it with a fine toothed comb and your 50 hits a day should turn into 1 to 2 sales a day

Originally Posted by RobertSeviour

Justin, what's your guess as to a realistic target for the conversion rate.

[RobertSeviour]

Originally Posted by Justin Mandel

It's hard to say Robert - it's dependent upon many factors, but if you are getting anything less then 2% to 4% (like you are) then IMO it's time for a new sales letter

I brushed through it real quick, but there were so many obvious overwhelming, glaring mistakes - things that you can do to boost conversions that it makes sense that all your getting is that <1% or so

In other words have a copywriter/marketer go through it with a fine toothed comb and your 50 hits a day should turn into 1 to 2 sales a day

Justin,

That would be a long wished for dream come true. Do you really think 1 - 2 % is possible? If I had confidence that good copy would achieve this, I'd go for it right away. But I had my fingers burned once and I'm nervous.

Robert

[Daniel Scott]

Robert,

The only side of the coin is it depends how targeted your traffic is.

What keywords are they searching for... and are they buying keywords?

I get hits to some of my sites for the most obscure phrases imaginable... and not surprisingly, they don't convert.

Remember, copy is only ONE part of the puzzle... you need quality, TARGETED traffic and a killer offer.

And you need a COMPLETE redesign of that page...

So to answer your question without seeing all the other stuff it's pretty hard for anyone to predict what your conversions will be... but I expect anyone should be able to multiply them by a factor of ten or so.

-Dan

[RobertSeviour]

Thanks for your comments Dan.

I accept what you say about all the factors which contribute to the end conversion rate. My take on what I have been doing is this:

I used to sell my books and courses by direct mail and fax broadcast. Those methods worked, we had a response rate which made a profit on the marketing costs. The recipients of the messages were intrigued and went for my 'only pay if you wish to keep' offer.

I concluded that the product was saleable IF I could put it in front of prospects, BUT they were not ACTIVELY looking for it. So for web marketing, I have created a lot of pages and articles which bring in traffic from a diversity of searches and these visitors are shown information about my Selling for Engineers books.

That's the theory - and it works at a rate of about 1 in 300 visits.

Which is why you see my cry for copywriting help. I am not in a position to throw money at the problem and say to copywriters - 'have a try'. On the other hand, I'd gladly pay a significant fee IF the results are good, which to me would be 1% or better.

Robert

[Kevin Lam]

Robert,

I'm pretty booked this week on copywriting clients, but send me a PM. I'm sure I can help. And don't worry, you won't have to pay me anything unless it converts.

[RobertSeviour]

Thanks everybody for the constructive comments. I am hoping to get some professional copywriting help shortly, but in the meantime, I've stripped out all the links which might have diverted visitors away from my sales page. Should you wish to take a look at the revised version it's here: Selling for Engineers

Robert