Which Creme de la Creme Copywriters Here Are Taking Aboard New Students?

[MarkAndrews IMCopywriting]

Out of curiosity, which creme de la creme copywriters here, the cream of the crop, are taking onboard new students?

Personally, I would like to take my writing skills up another level or two and therefore humbly, I'm seeking further instruction.

By what kind of arrangement do you operate?

I've had an offer from one gentleman here, however I'd like to consider too, further options.

Please do feel welcome to post below or by pm please.

A great deal of thanks for your time in advance.

Mark

[Paul McQuillan]

I admire your bravery Mark

There are a select few I would love to be schooled by on the
forum.

Vin keeps bugging me but he needs to raise his game if he wants to
tutor me.... (joking, kidding, not serious, don't kill me )

[David Raybould]

Hey Mark,

I'd vouch for Vin Montello.

He'll get you where you want to be.

Worked on me.

-David Raybould

[MontelloMarketing]

Originally Posted by Onslaught

I admire your bravery Mark

There are a select few I would love to be schooled by on the
forum.

Vin keeps bugging me but he needs to raise his game if he wants to
tutor me....

I don't see a wink anywhere, Paul. But since I've never spoken to you I can only assume you're kidding. Please let everyone else know you're kidding too.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by David Raybould

Hey Mark,

I'd vouch for Vin Montello.

He'll get you where you want to be.

Worked on me.

-David Raybould

David on another note, what is the age difference between your last
forum picture and this one? It look like you went from your early 20's
to your 30's in one step.

-Ray Edwards

[MarkAndrews IMCopywriting]

Thanks for the replies so far, but can we please not turn this into a 'I recommend', thread.

I do appreciate other individuals here applauding Vin (former / current students etc), I'm sure he's very good at what he does, gut instinct intuition though being what it is, tells me that the pair of us wouldn't get along too well, so even if the offer was there (which it isn't), I wouldn't be jumping into bed with him in any great rush, no disrespect to the fellow.

Apart from that, I can read tidbits of his advice here on this forum and at Bruce Wedding' forum - the CopywritingBoard, take what I need and leave the rest.

The question is more open to the specific leading copywriters themselves, to see what offers are on the table, if any.

Thanks to all, I do appreciate your time.

[Paul McQuillan]

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

I don't see a wink anywhere, Paul. But since I've never spoken to you I can only assume you're kidding. Please let everyone else know you're kidding too.

of course I am kidding

I fixed the boo-boo

[MontelloMarketing]

Originally Posted by Raydal

David on another note, what is the age difference between your last
forum picture and this one? It look like you went from your early 20's
to your 30's in one step.

-Ray Edwards

LOL... He's still in his 20's Ray... my teaching just aged him 10 years.

Yeah... I'm THAT tough!



And Onslaught... Thanks for the correction. I'll never bug you. What WILL bug you is the nagging feeling that you're just not as good as you could be... earning as much as you could be. Then you'll start bugging me! (blatant winking)

[David Raybould]

Originally Posted by Raydal

David on another note, what is the age difference between your last
forum picture and this one? It look like you went from your early 20's
to your 30's in one step.

-Ray Edwards

Hey Ray,

Believe it or not, it's about 6 weeks,
2 months at the most.

Amazing what a haircut and some
outside lighting will do, isn't it?

I'm 31, so I guess at least the
current one looks accurate.

I'm sure I could make an on-topic
joke about Vin's mentoring
putting years on me, but I won't
go there lol.

-David Raybould

[David Raybould]

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

LOL... He's still in his 20's Ray... my teaching just aged him 10 years.

Yeah... I'm THAT tough!

LOL, looks like you beat me to it with the joke...

[MontelloMarketing]

Aaah... so you did hit your 30's! I coulda sworn you were still a kid!

[David Raybould]

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

Aaah... so you did hit your 30's! I coulda sworn you were still a kid!

I guess I'll always be a kid... it's just
now I'm a kid in his 30's who writes
great copy lol.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by David Raybould

Hey Ray,

Believe it or not, it's about 6 weeks,
2 months at the most.

Amazing what a haircut and some
outside lighting will do, isn't it?

I'm 31, so I guess at least the
current one looks accurate.

I'm sure I could make an on-topic
joke about Vin's mentoring
putting years on me, but I won't
go there lol.

-David Raybould

LOL. Well you looked 21 in the other picture.
Lets' see what the more mature look would
do for sales.

-Ray Edwards

P.S. Sorry for hijacking the thread, OK back on course.

[Paul McQuillan]

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

And Onslaught... Thanks for the correction. I'll never bug you. What WILL bug you is the nagging feeling that you're just not as good as you could be... earning as much as you could be. Then you'll start bugging me! (blatant winking)

Your damned right I will be bugging you... sooner than you realize (no smilies required)

[MarkAndrews IMCopywriting]

Originally Posted by Raydal

P.S. Sorry for hijacking the thread, OK back on course.

Oi! you bloomin' lot, will you please stay on topic!

It was a serious question not some excuse for some circus tomfoolery about this, that and the other - everything but the kitchen sink unrelated to the subject matter in hand.

Thank you!

[Loren Woirhaye]

You might try to find somebody in your own time zone.

Are you familiar with Drayton Bird? He's not a copywriting
teacher really but it wouldn't surprise me if you could connect
with somebody local to you checking out his blog commentors
and so forth. Tap into your local community of commercial
writers.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't find a mentor online -
because if you want to specialize in internet copywriting it's
a specialty a lot of offline copywriters don't know much about -
but if you just want to write copy and get paid to do it there's
a lot to be said for looking around your local area and finding
the talent.

John Ritz and Shel Horowitz live both live real close to me,
for example. They've both been at the game longer than I so
if I were looking for mentoring I might chat them up first.

[Daniel Scott]

Maybe it's just me David.. but in your new picture you look a bit like you're either trying to pull the ladies or selling a male escort service :P

Kidding, of course... I think it looks very sharp.

In regards to the OP... I know Ray does copywriting coaching... although I have no idea whether or not he's booked up or even what his rates are. I DO know he's an amazing writer... so might be worth asking him.

I think a big thing when you look for a mentor/coach is to find somene whose personality you get along with, and whose style of copy you really like. Not necessarily want to emulate... but really, really love reading.

Also, you want them to be charging a fair bit of money and get a lot of work. I can't speak for other writers here, but I know as one of Vin's students he often puts me in contact with possible clients... and then as an added bonus looks over my letters to make sure I haven't made any big mistakes. It's really win-win for everyone.

So my advice to you, is rather than asking everyone to chime in... find writers you really dig and ask them if they do coaching.

I think hoping that they'll hop at the chance to take you on as a student may be a bit misguided... I know Vin wouldn't have taken me on if I did that. I PMed him and basically asked what it would take to be one of his students, expecting it would happen sometime down the track... but he took me on straight away, which was great.

In the same way no serious copywriter will reply to a "looking for a copywriter"thread because they already have a craptonne of clients... no coaches will reply to this thread because they already have a lot of students... and it comes across that you're not really serious (which I don't think is the case, but it could be interpreted that way).

Finally... make sure you have a fair bit of cash handy. Any decent coach will charge a fair bit.. though in some cases it's not unreasonable.

-Dan

[MarkAndrews IMCopywriting]

Thanks Daniel, I really do appreciate you especially chiming in with your advice, that was really kind of you to take time out of your already very busy schedule to reply to me, especially after our previous correspondence, where we didn't exactly see eye to eye.

(I really must try and work on those shorter sentences!)

As for the seriousness angle, yes I'm deadly serious.

I do believe my writing is good, but I do know that it has a way to go yet before I can get to where I know I want to be.

Whilst I understand the basics, where I am lacking at the moment is organization and structure of the actual sales copy.

I want to absolutely have that aspect nailed so that I can be fully confident that when I do write sales copy and/or sales letters, they do my clients the full justice that they deserve, for putting their trust in me in the first place.

You actually, I read many of your posts and your advice invariably is pretty damn good to individuals on this forum and your own sales copy -- it's **** hot, if you don't mind taking the compliment from me.

Mine I have to rewrite again, it's started to aggravate me that I havn't got it close to perfect yet -- I'm thinking I may just scrap it and start again from scratch.

Thanks to everyone for your positive contributions so far, I do appreciate the comments made, even if it did go off topic altogether by a few mischievous souls above briefly.

[colmodwyer]

Whilst I understand the basics, where I am lacking at the moment is organization and structure of the actual sales copy.

That's not the only thing you are lacking (if you don't mind me saying)... But, for that specific problem I would recommend actively reading good sales letters. Spend an hour plus on a piece, make a ton of notes.

You'll find writing out just the sub-heads of a good sales letter useful too. It will give you the structure at-a-glance, giving you a good idea of how to direct your own sales argument.

I've never had a mentor as such, but I work in-house and learn a lot from the more experienced guys. So although I can't recommend anyone in specific, the theory of why you want to do it seems sound...

Maybe Paul will teach you if you raise your game a bit.

Colm

[Daniel Scott]

You're welcome... and thanks for the props.

For the record... the "structure" of your sales copy is the easy bit.

The hard part is writing something that's persuasive... that has a killer USP... that has a headline that has eliminated any and all stray words (and the same for your sentences, come to that).

For me, a big challenge was positioning... everyone's different though.

I have a feeling a huge problem you'll have is cutting down your "wordiness"... but we've al got our bugbears to deal with.

I suppose, too, that this is based on my experience of learning copywriting... others may be completely different.

-Dan

Originally Posted by WordPro

Thanks Daniel, I really do appreciate you especially chiming in with your advice, that was really kind of you to take time out of your already very busy schedule to reply to me, especially after our previous correspondence, where we didn't exactly see eye to eye.

(I really must try and work on those shorter sentences!)

As for the seriousness angle, yes I'm deadly serious.

I do believe my writing is good, but I do know that it has a way to go yet before I can get to where I know I want to be.

Whilst I understand the basics, where I am lacking at the moment is organization and structure of the actual sales copy.

I want to absolutely have that aspect nailed so that I can be fully confident that when I do write sales copy and/or sales letters, they do my clients the full justice that they deserve, for putting their trust in me in the first place.

You actually, I read many of your posts and your advice invariably is pretty damn good to individuals on this forum and your own sales copy -- it's **** hot, if you don't mind taking the compliment from me.

Mine I have to rewrite again, it's started to aggravate me that I havn't got it close to perfect yet -- I'm thinking I may just scrap it and start again from scratch.

Thanks to everyone for your positive contributions so far, I do appreciate the comments made, even if it did go off topic altogether by a few mischievous souls above briefly.

[Jay Truman]

Originally Posted by colmodwyer

But, for that specific problem I would recommend actively reading good sales letters.

thats exactly what i've been doing and its been helping me write better. I'm a pretty crappy writer too. I've yet to fully copy a 'home run' sales letter, but that'll be my next step.

I've also been reading the National Enqurier and others. I think the publishers of NE sell about 15 million copies a week, so its def. worth a read.

what salesletters would you consider good, worth studying, and copying (by hand)?

[MarkAndrews IMCopywriting]

Jay if you go to the Advanced Search function, type in Eugene Schwartz - under username Jack Duncan, he had a WSO a short while ago offering all the swipe files of this high class salesman / copywriter, you could start with buying that and studying the makeup of each copywriting compilation.

There are many others too (swipe files), again, use the search function and just use that as a search query, you'll see them come up, or try the same search term on Google - Copywriting "Swipe Files"

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

I have a feeling a huge problem you'll have is cutting down your "wordiness"... but we've al got our bugbears to deal with.

-Dan

My business letters Daniel have always been (so my friends tell me and business aquaintances) very brief, sharp, straight to the point.

I need to achieve that balance now in my copywriting.

It's that fine balance between striking up a conversation with the reader and selling them quickly without allowing the waffle, storytelling to get in the way - that is my problem, I'll get it nailed this week, there's just no excuse for it. It's got to be cut out, it's as simple as that.

As you stated on another thread, it's bringing all of the smaller elements together, all the little details and keeping it highly persausive throughout that counts, so that it converts very well.

Thanks Dan for highlighting the importance of this to me again.