[WTH] need a good copywriter

[international_deal]

Hello ,
I don't know if this is the RIGHT place .
I want to hire a good copywriter with cheap and good prices .
My budget not more than 120$ .

[lakshaybehl]

Well yes. This is a good place. At least to see copywriters interacting. Oh, and by the way- you might not need to pay even those $120 to hire a copywriter.

BTW- what's the copywriter supposed to do? Only seventeen sales letters and 219 autoresponders... And you are willing to pay a whopping $120 for that! ?

Man, you are generous!!!

-I'd be wil.ling to do it. Time frame is almost instantly delivered in an eternity.

[lakshaybehl]

Oh yeah...

I forgot to mention- The deal has to be international even if you take royalties on the sales... I'll pay you like 10% of all the sales. Cool? But the deal must be international. Period.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by international_deal

My budget not more than 120$ .

Good copywriters cost thousands.

You may be able to find a new copywriter who doesn't know he's good, but the chances are very low. A copywriter who would work for $120 is almost certainly a complete waste of your money.

[international_deal]

Originally Posted by lakshaybehl

Well yes. This is a good place. At least to see copywriters interacting. Oh, and by the way- you might not need to pay even those $120 to hire a copywriter.

BTW- what's the copywriter supposed to do? Only seventeen sales letters and 219 autoresponders... And you are willing to pay a whopping $120 for that! ?

Man, you are generous!!!

-I'd be wil.ling to do it. Time frame is almost instantly delivered in an eternity.

Originally Posted by lakshaybehl

Oh yeah...

I forgot to mention- The deal has to be international even if you take royalties on the sales... I'll pay you like 10% of all the sales. Cool? But the deal must be international. Period.

lol , Really ?
why talking like a **** .
I am not rwquesting something more than 1 page and one autoresponder .
who wanna mock go to google and search

[international_deal]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Good copywriters cost thousands.

You may be able to find a new copywriter who doesn't know he's good, but the chances are very low. A copywriter who would work for $120 is almost certainly a complete waste of your money.

This is my first real product and need less startup costs first
then to hire a good copywriter

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by international_deal

This is my first real product and need less startup costs first

Write your own to start. If you have a good product, even bad sales copy will still sell it. Then you can use some of the profits to hire a copywriter.

Use the basic AIDA method: get the reader's Attention, arouse the reader's Interest, create a Desire for your product, and then encourage the Action of buying it. A basic skeleton would go like this:

-----

Hey, you!

You want to do this, don't you?

My product does that real good!

Give me money and I'll send it to you!

-----

Putting forth a reasonable effort to start with will often get a lot of helpful hints from copywriters here if you ask politely for help, and you can actually end up with something pretty good.

[jmarketer]

CDarklock...I know that you must be playing or it was suppose to be an inside joke or something.

Having a good product doesn't make anyone buy nothing....and bad copy certainly doesn't help it. However, great sales copy will make people buy, regardless of if it's a good product or not.

There are a lot of successful products and companies that really suck....they're successful because their marketing is good.

It's all about marketing. If you can't market the product right or create some way to entice the prospect, then you won't sell a thing.

Bad copy is bad copy for a reason....it won't sell. Bottom line is that you need good copy.

[lisag]

Hi,

I recognize that $120 represents a serious amount of money in different cultures and even to some people here in the U.S. And I congratulate you for wanting to invest that amount of money into something that has has the possibility of generating a huge return for you. So, I'll tell you what...

You take that $120 and go to Kiva - Loans that change lives. That's a web site that runs a micro loan program for disadvantaged people who have a business idea and need money to get it off the ground. Spread that $120 around to 5 different people there who have business ideas you like. You can lend $25 minimum, so you'll have to raise your copywriting budget to $125.

Then, send me the email you receive when you make each of those loans. I know exactly what those emails look like and what they should say. Send me proof that you loaned $125 out through kiva and I'll write your sales letter for you in return.

Send me a PM if you are interested and I'll send you a questionnaire about your product so I can get into your head.

Let me know what you think.

Regards,

Lisa

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by jmarketer

Having a good product doesn't make anyone buy nothing....and bad copy certainly doesn't help it. However, great sales copy will make people buy, regardless of if it's a good product or not.

A product you are not selling will sell precisely zero copies.

If you have a product you could sell, and you need money, chances are your best course of action is to sell your product... even if you have to use bad sales copy. It's better than nothing.

No inside joke at all.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by lisag

Send me proof that you loaned $125 out through kiva and I'll write your sales letter for you in return.

Lisa, I raise my glass to you.

International_deal, if you don't take this offer, you are a fool.

[jmarketer]

CDarklock.....using bad copy is absolutely "NOT" better than nothing. Using bad copy will end up costing you money, especially if it's on PPC. You have to pay for those failed conversions, which can put you in a hole real fast.

Don't listen to that advice...You need good copy....don't just throw something up and expect to make some sales. That's not how it works.

No offense CDarcklock, but the guy needs to know this. I'm sure that other follow copywriters and marketers will back me up on this fact.

[jmarketer]

I know what he was saying...But put it this way...a product that you're not selling won't sell any copies just as he stated. You won't make any money, nor will you lose any money.

But trying to sell the product with bad copy "WILL" cost money, so you're really better off not selling it at all because not selling it, you don't lose anything. But if the copy sucks, you will lose money.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by jmarketer

CDarklock.....using bad copy is absolutely "NOT" better than nothing.

Mathematically speaking, the guy with bad sales copy will sell more product than the guy who isn't selling anything.

[lisag]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Mathematically speaking, the guy with bad sales copy will sell more product than the guy who isn't selling anything.

True that! In fact, I have some bad sales copy running right now. I didn't have time to write my own so I gave it to an Intern a a community college here in town. It's not that great, but I've sold 70 copies of the product so far. When I get some time to focus on it, I'll make it better. In the meanwhile, 70 beats 0 by, um 70!

[jmarketer]

You're missing the point...you can sell, but what is the profit. I can sell 10 houses, but if it costs me more to sell it then I didn't gain a thing...I lost money, so it would have been better if I had never sold them.

The bottom line is how much did you profit, not how many copies you sold.

If you're going in the hole, you're not making any money..you're losing money.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I just didn't want to see this guy believe that just because he sold a few copies that it's worth using bad copy. Selling copies and making a profit are 2 different things.

[lisag]

Originally Posted by jmarketer

You're missing the point...you can sell, but what is the profit. I can sell 10 houses, but if it costs me more to sell it then I didn't gain a thing...I lost money, so it would have been better if I had never sold them.

The bottom line is how much did you profit, not how many copies you sold.

If you're going in the hole, you're not making any money..you're losing money.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I just didn't want to see this guy believe that just because he sold a few copies that it's worth using bad copy. Selling copies and making a profit are 2 different things.

True that as well. Since I have a dedicated server, my costs are fixed. The Intern cost me nothing. She turned in the assignment for credit at school. She got an "A", but that's a different issue -; But you are right, it's all about ROI. I've spent under 50$ on promotions so I'm ahead. Other people's mileage may vary.

[Bill Jeffels]

Originally Posted by international_deal

Hello ,
I don't know if this is the RIGHT place .
I want to hire a good copywriter with cheap and good prices .
My budget not more than 120$ .

Where you say that you want to hire a "cheap" copywriter.

You should take out the word cheap and insert the word "no results". Becasue that is what you are going to get is a no results copywriter.

Instead go to Amazon.com and pick up the book How To Write A Good Advertisement by Victor O. Schwab that will get you going and it will save you $108.05.

Take care,

Bill Jeffels

[Hugh Thyer]

Or you can do it this way:
Brett McFall reveals how to turn your business around

I've seen the sales letters the software produces. Not as good as a professional but should get you sales. If $120 is your budget then this is probably the best result you'll get for it.

Or take up Lisa's offer.

[international_deal]

Originally Posted by lisag

Hi,

I recognize that $120 represents a serious amount of money in different cultures and even to some people here in the U.S. And I congratulate you for wanting to invest that amount of money into something that has has the possibility of generating a huge return for you. So, I'll tell you what...

You take that $120 and go to Kiva - Loans that change lives. That's a web site that runs a micro loan program for disadvantaged people who have a business idea and need money to get it off the ground. Spread that $120 around to 5 different people there who have business ideas you like. You can lend $25 minimum, so you'll have to raise your copywriting budget to $125.

Then, send me the email you receive when you make each of those loans. I know exactly what those emails look like and what they should say. Send me proof that you loaned $125 out through kiva and I'll write your sales letter for you in return.

Send me a PM if you are interested and I'll send you a questionnaire about your product so I can get into your head.

Let me know what you think.

Regards,

Lisa

lol , loans are forbidden , I am a muslim not a christian

[international_deal]

People don't understand me , I am not a native english speaker and this is my only problem .

[Scott Murdaugh]

The point of this thread...

[WTH] need a good copywriter... I want to hire a good copywriter with cheap and good prices .
My budget not more than 120$ .

There is no such thing as a "good" copywriter with "cheap" prices.

If that's your budget, spend it on something besides copy... Because I promise you $120 will not buy you a converting sales letter.

Argue with me, go out and prove me wrong.

Good luck,

-Scott

[international_deal]

Then , How much for a good copywriter .
also i don't need a 10000% killer salesletter , This sales letter is for a membership website offering graphics

[Dean Dhuli]

This sales letter is for a membership website offering graphics

Well, that makes your job even more easy.

Remember - your sales letter doesn't have to make it into copywriters' swipe files.
It just has to convert decently and sell your product.

So first, write your sales letter answering these 3 simple questions...

a) What are you offering and how's it unique?
b) How can it improve your customers' lives for the better?
c) How to get it?

And then you can add some samples in between to show
what quality of graphics you provide them.

If you can write decent English, then it not being your first
language is also not a problem.


Take care,
Dean.

[MikeHumphreys]

Make Your Words Sell was one of the first ever copywriting books I ever bought. Spend $30 for the ebook package at the time and it was worth every penny.

It's now available as a free download from Ken Evoy and I still recommend it for people overseas wanting to learn how to write a basic online sales letter. As I learned from an international friend of mine, Amazon will absolutely crush you on shipping costs if they ship directly to you overseas.

If you can find it elsewhere with decent shipping charges, I'd suggest grabbing Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Sales Letter book (about $14 before shipping) as well.

Anyways, here's a link to Make Your Words Sell.

Make Your Words Sell!

Good luck,

Mike

[lisag]

Originally Posted by international_deal

lol , loans are forbidden , I am a muslim not a christian

I understand. Well, I wish you luck with your product.

Lisa

[nontemplates]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

-----

Hey, you!

You want to do this, don't you?

My product does that real good!

Give me money and I'll send it to you!

.

HIRED!! No edits needed.

[E-supreme]

Lisa's offer was incredible! Not many people would make such an offer!

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by international_deal

lol , loans are forbidden , I am a muslim not a christian

I did a little research on this, because Lisa's offer is really an amazing one, and I found it very strange that donating to those in need through kiva.org might be against Shari'a law.

I have not seen a single indication that it is.

Indeed, kiva.org was outright recommended by the Muslim Media Network.

Now, as a Jew myself, I know a lot of people represent themselves as promoting Jewish values - when they really don't. MMN may not be a valid source of recommendations for you, and I'm simply not qualified to discern a "real" source of Islamic values from a group with their own agenda.

But it seems you may be misinformed.

[Matt Jutras]

I thought it was paying or receiving interest on loans that was forbidden...and not loans in and of themselves...which is why Kiva.org would be okay.

But I guess we don't need this to flip to a religious discussion...

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Matt Jutras

I thought it was paying or receiving interest on loans that was forbidden...and not loans in and of themselves...which is why Kiva.org would be okay.

In the Jewish principle of lifnei iver, if you enable someone to break the law out of ignorance (in this case, enabling someone to lend at interest), then you are responsible for the lawbreaking. And while Kiva do not themselves charge interest, their partners do... so it may violate Shari'a law to loan money to someone who loans money to someone who loans money at interest.

However, if this were the principle at operation, it would mean that no Muslim could deposit money in any normal bank of the Western world. All Western banks charge interest, and they do it by lending deposited funds. By depositing funds, you would enable them to charge interest, and therefore break Shari'a law by enabling them to break it.

So I don't think Kiva's really a problem at all.

[lisag]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

In the Jewish principle of lifnei iver, if you enable someone to break the law out of ignorance (in this case, enabling someone to lend at interest), then you are responsible for the lawbreaking. And while Kiva do not themselves charge interest, their partners do... so it may violate Shari'a law to loan money to someone who loans money to someone who loans money at interest.

However, if this were the principle at operation, it would mean that no Muslim could deposit money in any normal bank of the Western world. All Western banks charge interest, and they do it by lending deposited funds. By depositing funds, you would enable them to charge interest, and therefore break Shari'a law by enabling them to break it.

So I don't think Kiva's really a problem at all.

Interesting reading. THE KORAN, INTEREST & THE ECONOMY

[ideapro]

Every sales effort, whether in print or electronic media such as TV or radio, has 3 basic things it must do:

1. Establish what it is that is being sold
2. Prove that it is better than the competition
3. Cause the customer to ACT or BUY

The first 2 goals can often be done with one single story-telling photograph, showing not only the product, but WHY IT IS BETTER. There are fancy ways of saying this, like 'demonstrating the unique selling proposition' or 'leveraging the product in the market stream' and so on. But, the basic process is the same. You need to rapidly establish exactly what you're selling, and then credibly and dramatically convince that the reader or viewer or listener that YOUR PRODUCT is worth buying. This is sometimes called a 'comparitive advantage' approach.

What's going on here are these internal processes in the target audience's minds:

1. They visually identify the product being presented, and reference internal needs or desire for that kind of product or service. If the customers do not already think they need the product or service, or cannot identify it from the images or words presented, the rest of the advertisement is not read, no matter how great your copy is, and no matter how wonderful your product may be.

You only have 1 or 2 seconds to identify your product accurately to the potential buyer. If they cannot tell what you're selling at a glance, they turn the page or simply stop paying attention, press the back button, and so on. You've lost them. Just a couple of seconds and that's it.

If for some reason you're ad or email is being exposed to an audience that does not already want this kind of product, then you've lost them. You will not be given a chance to give these people a religious experience, or to convert them into true believers or to create internal values and needs for something they don't already know about. The chances of that are so low and the price of success in that effort is so high that almost nobody can afford it. As a result, TARGETING your message to the right audience is extremely important.

2. Assuming the customer had identified the product, and assuming that they know they want it or may want it, then you have a chance to sell something to them. That's where your USP or product benefit or comparative advantage comes in. You really don't have to be the absolute BEST at anything. Nobody would believe that anyway. Just being very good, or even excellent at something that's desirable for a big portion of your audience is good enough to produce good sales.

Compare your product or service's features and benefits to your competition. List the ways it will help the customer. Show why it is a good or even a great buy for them, especially compared to known competing products or services.

That's almost it...

Now, all you have left to do is...

3. Give them a way to BUY from you. Put a button right there on the page that sells the product. Put a button at the bottom, and another back up to the top. Let them buy right now. Don't make them go to another page. In email, put a link to buy now at the top and again at the bottom. Buyers need to be able to take action, whenever they're ready to buy. Give them a phone number. Give them a web address. Give them an email address. Give them every way to buy you can think of. Don't be shy. This is where you make money. Make this as easy as possible.

Those are a few of the points to remember. I'm willing to help you, and probably within your budget. The devil is in the details. If you read the description above and want me to do this for you, feel free to PM me or email me. I'll need to know more about what you really want to do, what you're selling and how long I'd have to work for the money, etc. Otherwise, just follow my advice above and have fun. Good sales copy is not hard to write.

Good luck to you, and have some fun!

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by lisag

Interesting reading. THE KORAN, INTEREST & THE ECONOMY

This seems to be the money quote (no pun intended):

"If you borrow from a bank or anyone else and if the bank or the person from whom money is borrowed, charges interest from you, it is not your fault- the Koran only condemns charging or consuming interest."

So by this explanation, using Kiva isn't against Muslim law, because the Muslim contributing to Kiva doesn't charge or consume any interest involved. Which is pretty much what I suspected... but good find, Lisa.

[international_deal]

Thanks for all people .
Got a copywriter , He would do for me for this price [ as a help ]
He didn't want his name to be mentioned

[nontemplates]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

"If you borrow from a bank or anyone else and if the bank or the person from whom money is borrowed, charges interest from you, it is not your fault- the Koran only condemns charging or consuming interest."
.

Well Jewish scriptures in Proverbs frowns on interest/usury in several places as well so he's actually incorrect implying that Christians (who accept proverbs as inspired) don't have a problem with money lending with interest.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by nontemplates

Well Jewish scriptures in Proverbs frowns on interest/usury in several places as well so he's actually incorrect implying that Christians (who accept proverbs as inspired) don't have a problem with money lending with interest.

What he's implying isn't so much that the judeochristian traditions permit lending at interest, but that adherents of judeochristian traditions practice lending at interest. Which is absolutely true, so he's completely correct.

[nontemplates]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

What he's implying isn't so much that the judeochristian traditions permit lending at interest, but that adherents of judeochristian traditions practice lending at interest. Which is absolutely true, so he's completely correct.

Actually no he's not completely correct. Not all christians do just as not all muslims shun it. A great deal of that has to do with how "westernized" they are.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by nontemplates

Actually no he's not completely correct. Not all christians do just as not all muslims shun it.

Nobody said all of them do. He just said he doesn't, because he's a Muslim (completely true) - and implied that christians in general do (also completely true).

[nontemplates]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Nobody said all of them do. He just said he doesn't, because he's a Muslim (completely true) - and implied that christians in general do (also completely true).

Well you see thats the thing about the word implied. I shouldn't think I would have to explain that to a writer. We love words and their meanings. Rather than rephrasing what was written how about just quoting what was written?

Originally Posted by international_deal

lol , loans are forbidden , I am a muslim not a christian

Muslim = loans are fobidden
Christian = loans are not forbidden.

this does imply that were he a Christian loans would not be forbidden. Since this is not true then he is not completely correct. Its a polarizing blanket statement and in the history of language those have never been completely correct no matter how much you assert otherwise.

Hey I am just trying to point out that there is a common ground in all three religions mentioned in this thread. They all have stated positions looking down on loans and in particular interest taking. Its not necessary to polarize on this issue. Its an area where there is alot of agreement and thats a good thing.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by nontemplates

this does imply that were he a Christian loans would not be forbidden.

It might also imply that were he a christian, he would not care whether it was forbidden.

Let's swap some terms around:

"click fraud is illegal, I am white hat not blue fart"

This completely reasonable statement does not imply that click fraud is legal if you are blue fart, and nobody in their right mind would claim it does.

When a correct interpretation exists, it is disingenuous to insist that an incorrect interpretation was actually intended.

[nontemplates]

It might also imply that were he a christian, he would not care whether it was forbidden.

and that too would not be completely correct either

Originally Posted by CDarklock

.

Let's swap some terms around:

"click fraud is illegal, I am white hat not blue fart"

This completely reasonable statement does not imply that click fraud is legal if you are blue fart, and nobody in their right mind would claim it does.

well of course not (although I have no great depth on what a blue fart is ) although it seems to be a weak correlation. It wouldn't change the status of click fraud being illegal. You 've entirely missed the point. It does in fact imply that being white hat the person would not do something that is illegal and that a blue fart very well could or would. No one in their right mind who understands language would claim otherwise. It does imply that. Now did I say he STATED that no. thats the very meaning of the word implied- look it up rather than engaging your own persistence

When a correct interpretation exists, it is disingenuous to insist that an incorrect interpretation was actually intended.

I Find arrogance disingeniuos frankly. analyze and build a logical case for your analysis. don't do it backways by assuming yours is the correct interpretation and drawing conclusions about people being disingenuous. Its a fallacious argument from authority sans the authority. Poor form.

We don't really need to hijack the thread. Mine was a simple point. Muslim teachngs are not that far off form Christian teachings on Loans. Its an area where there is tremendous agreement - unlike our present conversation.

[nontemplates]

Originally Posted by WordPro

You've already hijacked the thread.

CDarklock made some excellent observations above, you ignored them and simply continued to argue for the sake of arguing on someone else's thread.

If you have a disagreement with the fellow, take it to pm.

Merely commented on a statement made in the thread that showed an area of agreement between parties rather than highlighting differences. Anyway whats good for the goose. I must have missed your PM Wordpro but thanks for getting the thread back on track with that pertinent post on hiring a copy writer

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by nontemplates

We don't really need to hijack the thread.

Good point.

[nontemplates]

You missed it because one was never sent to you, nor was one promised.

Obviously and exactly - so yes my case was made in that point and with it closed (at least on my part).

Originally Posted by international_deal

Thanks for all people .
Got a copywriter , He would do for me for this price [ as a help ]
He didn't want his name to be mentioned

Happy for you mate. Your budget is on the very low end but on the other hand judging by some of what I have seen going for copywriters recently you did well not to get ripped off. As CDarklock pointed out the odds of finding someone good for less than the thousand dollar mark is rather low. I'd add that the chances of finding a good copy writer merely on the basis of their own self promotion as such is only slightly better.

Sometimes you see people using thier price as a calling card for their expertise - don't believe it.

[aceshigh]

Listen, you won't find a good copywriter for that. You'll find the worst of the worst! So trust me, keep your money. Here's what you do. Find a really good sales letter site. One place to look is in "clickbank". Then click on "market place" the choose one of the catagories that relate to what your selling. Find the top selling item and visit a few of the sites. The best converting sites show "gravity" higher than 100. That's how you'll know it's a high converting sales pitch. Then you just reverse engineer their sales pitch. You break it down into parts. So where they have a photo, you're gonna put a photo. Where they have a testimonial, you'll put your own there. Where they have ad copy you'll put yours. And when writing it you'll just see what they say and rewrite it using your own words, your own product, etc. Chances are if you do that you'll at least come up with a "half decent" sales letter to start with. Don't plagerize anything, but just use their salesletter as a template to create your own. Good luck.

[lisag]

Originally Posted by international_deal

Thanks for all people .
Got a copywriter , He would do for me for this price [ as a help ]
He didn't want his name to be mentioned

Hi,

I thought I'd check in and see how you made out. I'd love to see the sales page and know how your product is doing.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Lisa

[ltdraper]

Originally Posted by international_deal

lol , loans are forbidden , I am a muslim not a christian

So how about fraud and stealing? Are they forbidden too, or do you just make an exception for that?

[Scott Murdaugh]

So how about fraud and stealing? Are they forbidden too, or do you just make an exception for that?

Did I miss something here?

-Scott

[Scott Murdaugh]

I wouldn't work for the guy, and I get the gist of the entire thread... I just don't see where "fraud and stealing" came into play at any point.

Then again I haven't read the whole thing, just glanced over it.

-Scott