I've got a weird question for copywriters

Kevin Lam · 08-29-2009, 10:35 AM

I was actually asked this:

Quote:

[NAME REMOVED FOR PRIVACY]: on average how long does it take you to write a solid 2- 6 % sales copy?

My answer:

Quote:

time is not really the question at hand here. it really depends on what i have to work with and what the market is, because that determines how hungry the market is for the product. With that i sell the sizzle for them to bite on to.

Of course there's more to it (like traffic source and what the product is actually selling), but I was wondering what your take is on this. How would you answer that question and what do you think it takes to have a 2-6% conversion?

MontelloMarketing · 08-29-2009, 11:05 AM

The whole 2-6% part is what puts the wrench in the works.

I can easily say how long it takes for me to write copy.

It's pretty well known in the industry that I put the same extreme effort into each and every project I get. So copy that converts at 2-6% is no faster or slower to write than copy that converts at a much higher (or lower) rate.

The premise that the more a copywriter works on the copy, the more it converts is a flawed premise.

Usually when this question is asked, you know you're dealing with a dilettante... an amateur who has learned a couple key marketing phrases and is trying to ride them to a successful campaign.

Kevin Lam · 08-29-2009, 11:12 AM

EXACTLY! You're right on the money, Vin. As usual. It's like thinking if I put in 3 weeks to get a 2% conversion, I can put in another 6 months, to get a 30% conversion. As if.

Of course, I was just curious to know how others would answer that. So thanks for the feedback. And hey, now I've got a good idea of what niche to go after next. It's not like I was being hired as the copywriter. If so, I probably wouldn't have, lol.

TracyNeedham · 08-29-2009, 11:16 AM

Yeah, weird question. Vin's assessment is dead on. My other thought is maybe the asker is a prospect trying to find a way to negotiate a smaller fee.

Wouldn't it be nice though if you could just say, "Ok, if I spend this many hours it'll convert at x%, and this many hours, it will convert at y%. Which do you want?"!

Tracy

Kevin Lam · 08-29-2009, 11:17 AM

Hahahaha, that would be great.

lenlatimer · 08-29-2009, 07:03 PM

Hi, nice comments all. For me, I spend far more time researching and thinking than in writing. Converting features to benefits, identifying the ideal customer, contemplating the offer, figuring the back end, keyword search, figuring the "WIIFM" (What's in it for me) from the customer's perspective, etc.

MontelloMarketing · 08-29-2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenlatimer

Hi, nice comments all. For me, I spend far more time researching and thinking than in writing. Converting features to benefits, identifying the ideal customer, contemplating the offer, figuring the back end, keyword search, figuring the "WIIFM" (What's in it for me) from the customer's perspective, etc.

What carlton calls "percolating." I do that for a bunch of my time.

Jo_Shua · 08-29-2009, 10:37 PM

Swiping Vin's answer in case I ever get asked that question

Raydal · 08-30-2009, 12:40 PM

I know a preacher who was once asked to preach as a
guest speaker at another church. In answer to the
question how much money he was expecting, he replied

"It depends on if you want a $100 sermon or a $500
sermon."

I wish it were the same for copywriters.

-Ray Edwards

Dean Dhuli · 08-30-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

It's like thinking if I put in 3 weeks to get a 2% conversion, I can put in another 6 months, to get a 30% conversion.

And guess what?

At the end of those 6 months, you might actually find that
your conversion rate is much, MUCH lower than 2%.

I don't know about you guys, but for me there's a time
beyond which I wouldn't want to continue working on
any letter.

Why?

Because when we concentrate on the same letter for so long,
we ourselves will get bored of it and unnecessarily start
removing and editing the good parts of the letter also.

- Dean

HansM · 08-30-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Lam

EXACTLY! You're right on the money, Vin. As usual. It's like thinking if I put in 3 weeks to get a 2% conversion, I can put in another 6 months, to get a 30% conversion. As if.

The same kind of math applies to: a woman can bear a child in 9 months, so 9 women can bear a child in 1 month...

Kevin Lam · 08-30-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansM

The same kind of math applies to: a woman can bear a child in 9 months, so 9 women can bear a child in 1 month...

What? You say that as if it's not possible... get out of town! LOL.

Kevin Lam · 08-30-2009, 06:44 PM

Dean, I couldn't have agreed more. I can't imagine myself working on a sales letter for 6 months, let alone 6 weeks. Maybe 6 months LATER I look at it - that's fine with me.

Ray, I wish that was the case here as well.

Intrepreneur · 08-30-2009, 07:11 PM

I would say - How long is a piece of string.

You could spend months tweaking in order to get 2-6% conversion or it could convert like that straight out of the door.

green1 · 09-01-2009, 03:46 AM

"so 9 women can bear a child in 1 month..."

Funny you should say that! I've had nine women tell me, "Oh, you're such a child, I cannot bear you for even one more month!"

CDarklock · 09-01-2009, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by green1

Funny you should say that! I've had nine women tell me, "Oh, you're such a child, I cannot bear you for even one more month!"

Well, here's hoping you make at least a 10% conversion rate!

Alexa Smith · 09-01-2009, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raydal

I know a preacher who was once asked to preach as a guest speaker at another church. In answer to the question how much money he was expecting, he replied "It depends on if you want a $100 sermon or a $500 sermon."

Last Sunday morning the Pastor announced to his congregation: "My good people, I have here in my hands, three sermons...a $500 sermon that lasts five minutes, a $100 sermon that lasts fifteen minutes, and a $5 sermon that lasts two and a half hours. Now, we'll take the collection and then we'll know which one I get to deliver."

Kevin Lam · 09-01-2009, 06:53 AM

Alexa, you gotta be kidding me. That's funny... but crazy... but very funny, lol.

08-29-2009, 11:05 AM	#2
MontelloMarketing Godfather Of Persuasion War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles - Tampa - Raleigh Posts: 1,140 Thanks: 112 Thanked 349 Times in 177 Posts Social Networking	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters The whole 2-6% part is what puts the wrench in the works. I can easily say how long it takes for me to write copy. It's pretty well known in the industry that I put the same extreme effort into each and every project I get. So copy that converts at 2-6% is no faster or slower to write than copy that converts at a much higher (or lower) rate. The premise that the more a copywriter works on the copy, the more it converts is a flawed premise. Usually when this question is asked, you know you're dealing with a dilettante... an amateur who has learned a couple key marketing phrases and is trying to ride them to a successful campaign.
	3/1/2012 The Next (FREE) Conversion Clambake Webinar! Sign up to get live answers to all your marketing questions, from a panel of conversion experts. CLICK HERE To Register For This Or Future Clambakes

08-29-2009, 11:12 AM	#3
Kevin Lam Dare To Dream War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 179 Thanked 229 Times in 154 Posts	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters EXACTLY! You're right on the money, Vin. As usual. It's like thinking if I put in 3 weeks to get a 2% conversion, I can put in another 6 months, to get a 30% conversion. As if. Of course, I was just curious to know how others would answer that. So thanks for the feedback. And hey, now I've got a good idea of what niche to go after next. It's not like I was being hired as the copywriter. If so, I probably wouldn't have, lol.

08-29-2009, 11:16 AM	#4
TracyNeedham Copywriting Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 356 Thanks: 128 Thanked 114 Times in 74 Posts Social Networking	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters Yeah, weird question. Vin's assessment is dead on. My other thought is maybe the asker is a prospect trying to find a way to negotiate a smaller fee. Wouldn't it be nice though if you could just say, "Ok, if I spend this many hours it'll convert at x%, and this many hours, it will convert at y%. Which do you want?"! Tracy
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08-29-2009, 11:17 AM	#5
Kevin Lam Dare To Dream War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 179 Thanked 229 Times in 154 Posts	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters Hahahaha, that would be great.

08-29-2009, 07:03 PM	#6
lenlatimer HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Valley Glen, CA USA. Posts: 183 Thanks: 4 Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters Hi, nice comments all. For me, I spend far more time researching and thinking than in writing. Converting features to benefits, identifying the ideal customer, contemplating the offer, figuring the back end, keyword search, figuring the "WIIFM" (What's in it for me) from the customer's perspective, etc.
	Len Latimer Copy-In-A-Box, an amazing Word Add-in Tool that adds Dazzle & Personality to your copy. My WSO

08-29-2009, 10:37 PM	#8
Jo_Shua Geek it til' it MHz! War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The Boro, TN Posts: 236 Thanks: 65 Thanked 48 Times in 34 Posts	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters Swiping Vin's answer in case I ever get asked that question

08-30-2009, 12:40 PM	#9
Raydal Marketing Strategist War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Punta Gorda, FL, USA. Posts: 3,248 Thanks: 150 Thanked 1,131 Times in 501 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters I know a preacher who was once asked to preach as a guest speaker at another church. In answer to the question how much money he was expecting, he replied "It depends on if you want a $100 sermon or a $500 sermon." I wish it were the same for copywriters. -Ray Edwards
	WSO: 6 Months Of Copywriting Coaching For Just $597 By Warrior's Favorite Copywriting Coach! The Economy Sucks Copywriting Special! \| Copywriting Course FIVERR Gig!

08-30-2009, 06:44 PM	#13
Kevin Lam Dare To Dream War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 179 Thanked 229 Times in 154 Posts	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters Dean, I couldn't have agreed more. I can't imagine myself working on a sales letter for 6 months, let alone 6 weeks. Maybe 6 months LATER I look at it - that's fine with me. Ray, I wish that was the case here as well.

08-30-2009, 07:11 PM	#14
Intrepreneur I.C.Hope War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 2,515 Thanks: 446 Thanked 227 Times in 181 Posts Contact Info	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters I would say - How long is a piece of string. You could spend months tweaking in order to get 2-6% conversion or it could convert like that straight out of the door.
	I want a good keyword researcher, not for min sites but for tech articles. Hit me up if you've got those skillz!

09-01-2009, 03:46 AM	#15
green1 Active Warrior Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: , , USA. Posts: 37 Thanks: 2 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters "so 9 women can bear a child in 1 month..." Funny you should say that! I've had nine women tell me, "Oh, you're such a child, I cannot bear you for even one more month!"

09-01-2009, 06:53 AM	#18
Kevin Lam Dare To Dream War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 179 Thanked 229 Times in 154 Posts	Re: I've got a weird question for copywriters Alexa, you gotta be kidding me. That's funny... but crazy... but very funny, lol.