War Room

Go Back   WarriorForum - Internet Marketing Forums > The Warrior Forum > The Copywriting Forum

Featured Warrior Special Offer...
"Members Of The *War Room* Discover Secrets To Immediate Success!"
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-24-2009, 06:19 AM   #1
Warrior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Arrow Direct Response Marketer WANTED

Hello I'm a french self-improvement coach and I'm struggling with internet marketing ! I have products, but I don't know how to sell them effectively in my market (in France). I'm looking for someone who will help me structurize my offer and give more value to my customers, and I want this offer to be performance-driven. I'm fluent in English thus the language is not an issue, if needed I will also hire a translator.

What I do :
- Online video programs
- 1-1 coaching
- live seminars
- recurrent membership site (working on it)

What I want from you :
- Market analysis and positionning
- Copywriting
- Mailing / newsletter strategies
- Launch(tree) definitions

What you will get :
- share of the profits
- lot of fun !

Want you have to do now :
- Show me why you are the perfect person for this offer : your track records, your fields of expertise
- Ask me questions, I'll be glad to answer them.

Wishing you (and us) the best.

// DDEFR
ddefr is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2009, 07:06 AM   #2
HyperActive Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: , , .
Posts: 365
Thanks: 0
Thanked 74 Times in 48 Posts
Default Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

Quote:
share of the profits
Nobody with a smidgeon of sense will take a percentage of profits deal. Sales is what you want, and you pay sales people out of a percentage of gross sales. Not net. Not profit.

The reason is simple. It's a recipe for mischief.

You control expenses. That's your business, not the marketer's. And, when the money is seen as going to someone else, the temptation to play fast and loose with the numbers is asking for trouble. If the marketing person doesn't understand human nature well enough to understand this, they're not good enough students of human nature to perform adequately as marketers.

And there will be expenses.

I swear the people proposing pay-for-performance think they're getting away with something. It's not a free deal with no downside for you. Changes in policy. Testing. And going out and getting the business into shape for a performance deal so the pay is worth taking costs money.

The same people get flabbergasted that they have to redesign the product, or reshoot the video, or (gasp) go out and get testimonials. "This was supposed to be a free deal for me! ....That's why I proposed it!"

What if business quadrupled in thirty days? What if sales grew by tenfold? Most businesses simply aren't able to function on a pay for performance basis because they can't perform at that level. (Couldn't fulfill orders. Can't schedule. Couldn't answer the calls.)

Finally, a whole lot of people think the marketer is going to make people buy your stuff. Doesn't work that way. You change your business, then sales happen. And a lot of people hadn't counted on changing their business -- they want the marketer to make people buy whatever they're selling.

I'm going to leave the "can't multiply zeros" point for Gary Halbert to explain. (Link goes to, arguably, the most unpopular Gary Halbert Letter ever written) Multiplying any low level of sales is just about the same -- unpromising and unappealing.

When sales are very low, there's always the issue of what else is wrong. Self-sabotage can't be corrected by marketing. I've already heard all the reasons business owners couldn't be bothered to succeed, I have no stomach for another story.

Almost without exception the people proposing this deal signal they're not ready for pay-for-performance.

John_S is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to John_S For This Useful Post:
Old 10-24-2009, 07:24 AM   #3
HyperActive Warrior
 
travlinguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: , , USA.
Posts: 437
Thanks: 34
Thanked 91 Times in 80 Posts
Default Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

As John has said, there are too many things beyond the copywriter's control in arrangements like these. The one that always concerns me is not that you won't honor your end of the agreement, but that you aren't able to drive enough targeted traffic to your offer to make it pay. There are other issues as well, but good luck anyway!

"The pen is mightier than the sword. But that's only because it's easier to thrust into someone's ear at close range." http://www.prosewiz.com
travlinguy is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2009, 08:24 AM   #4
Gobsh1te
War Room Member
 
EaglePiServ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 51
Thanks: 9
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

Another point is you're asking for market research from the person you wish to hire. That could be a time-consuming process for which your final product might not meet the needs of, yet you offer no compensation for doing work you should probably have already done.

In the real world, it is next to impossible to find a commission-only salesperson that's not a recent college grad, or someone down on their luck desperate to try anything to make money.

If that's the kind of person you're looking to hire, then methinks you're in the wrong arena.

Cheers.
EaglePiServ is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2009, 08:26 AM   #5
Samurai Writer
War Room Member
 
Mark McClure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 272
Blog Entries: 6
Thanks: 15
Thanked 31 Times in 26 Posts
Social Networking View Member's Twitter Profile 
Contact Info
Send a message via Skype™ to Mark McClure
Default Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

OP,
I too doubt that few busy and effective copywriters will bite on a pay-for-performance offer alone.

Also, if your customers are French, don't you need a native French speaking copywriter?

I can't imagine translating direct response copy from English into French is going to press your prospects' hot buttons. Interested if anyone's successfully done this.

Turbocharge Your Email CTRs. Autoresponder & Email Copywriting

How To Finish What You Started... IM Procrastination Killer
Mark McClure is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2009, 01:32 PM   #6
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 433
Thanks: 89
Thanked 187 Times in 104 Posts
Default Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McClure View Post
...
I too doubt that few busy and effective copywriters will bite on a pay-for-performance offer alone

Also, if your customers are French, don't you need a native French speaking copywriter?...
Mark's on the money, here. Plus you should, ideally, find a FRENCH copywriter (or someone who has lived in France, or at least Europe).

There are cultural differences in marketing. This is a major reason why all the Big Ad Agencies have local offices. It's important to adjust your marketing approach to the region in which you're running your campaigns. A campaign that may sell gangbusters in America, may completely flop in Baharain (or France). Heck, there are regional differences in America, and a campaign that would attract a born-and-bred New Yorker may well alienate someone from South Carolina.

Your copywriter needs to be familiar with the cultural norms of your geographical market - especially since you're selling face-to-face services.

And, yeah, unless you have some kind of established sales picture, a straight pay-for-performance is a non-starter for any copywriter who is competent to help you with market analysis and positioning.

As John pointed out, a straight pay-for-performance usually indicates one or more circumstances:
  • You're underfunded. Which means you can't implement any marketing and advertising suggestions effectively.
  • Your sales are low or non-existent, and your overhead exceeds your current profits. To draw even would require an increase in sales - which increase would immediately go towards eliminating the deficit and bringing you to net zero. Which means you're expecting your copywriter to pay your expenses before he pays his own.
  • There may well be a problem with your products and service offerings v your market. If so, and if you're not prepared to re-tool your offerings (or can't afford to), your copywriter is out the time he spent evaluating and analyzing your situation. That - for anyone competent enough to provide effective marketing consulting - would equate to several thousand dollars of 'lost' revenue. For the copywriter/consultant.
Basically, what you're asking is for a high-level copywriter/marketing consultant to invest in your business. Without you making any investment in their business.

You're asking for an investment partner - with your partner taking all the risk.

Even with a completely new business, anyone with a track record is going to want to see your track record and credentials before they commit to working on a pay-for-performance.
Collette is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2009, 02:49 PM   #7
Active Warrior
War Room Member
 
ghyphena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 98
Blog Entries: 8
Thanks: 6
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Contact Info
Send a message via Skype™ to ghyphena
Default Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

You know, this reminds me of something that was posted here a short while ago.

Some guy was looking for a copywriter to write an ad for a product he was selling on e-bay. His pitch to us was...

It would be great for our portfolios... and it could lead to work from (I quote) "the big companies"...

Do you see what he did? He tried to position himself as offering us something of value - in this case, another notch on our gun... and... exposure to future, potentially lucrative assignments. And, like you, he invited applications - the more detailed and passionate the better.

Now, I can't say whether or not The Big Companies (TM) trawl e-bay looking for sparkling gems of direct response long copy. But if I were a Big Company (TM), that wouldn't exactly be my first port of call.

But that's not the point... the point is, do you see what this guy is doing? He needs a copywriter. But the way he frames his offer is... he's got something any hot-blooded copywriter would kill for. Portfolio and exposure!

I don't know how many people jumped at it.

I hope you find someone who wants to work with you. But really - wouldn't you rather just spend a few thousand dollars now and get to keep *all* the profit? It's what I would do.

Best of luck with your project

Gil-Ad

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
ghyphena is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2009, 02:57 PM   #8
Active Warrior
War Room Member
 
ghyphena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 98
Blog Entries: 8
Thanks: 6
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Contact Info
Send a message via Skype™ to ghyphena
Default Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McClure View Post
I can't imagine translating direct response copy from English into French is going to press your prospects' hot buttons. Interested if anyone's successfully done this.
You know, Mark, I was thinking about this some time ago - I started thinking about non-native-English speakers writing copy in English... which then led me to think to non-native language copywriting in general.

You might argue that a restricted understanding of grammar and vocab would present a natural barrier to the temptations of getting "too fancy" with your words. Which could actually be an advantage as you'd be forced to make a straightforward, non-fancy, good old benefit-based sales pitch.

Can't speak from experience though.

Gil-Ad

PS - You wouldn't happen to be Mark McClure of Ruthless Entrepreneur fame, would you? Whatever happened to your Click2Sell sales page? I tried finding it a while ago and it seemed to have just dropped off the face of the internet.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
ghyphena is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2009, 06:48 AM   #9
Samurai Writer
War Room Member
 
Mark McClure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 272
Blog Entries: 6
Thanks: 15
Thanked 31 Times in 26 Posts
Social Networking View Member's Twitter Profile 
Contact Info
Send a message via Skype™ to Mark McClure
Default Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

Hello gyhphena,

No, I'm no THAT Mark McClure.

Ruthless is he, eh? Maybe I should kick his copy up a notch or two ;-)

Turbocharge Your Email CTRs. Autoresponder & Email Copywriting

How To Finish What You Started... IM Procrastination Killer
Mark McClure is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 10:11 AM   #10
gypsy accordion menace
War Room Member
 
Loren Woirhaye's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Amherst, Massachusetts
Posts: 3,159
Blog Entries: 11
Thanks: 75
Thanked 489 Times in 354 Posts
Social Networking View Member's FaceBook Profile  View Member's Twitter Profile  View Member's YouTube Profile
Contact Info
Send a message via Yahoo to Loren Woirhaye Send a message via Skype™ to Loren Woirhaye
Default Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

Swiss copywriter Christian Godefroy has a remarkable
way with the English language. While undoubtedly
a master communicator, there is a sweetness to
his writing - he truly writes in a way a child can
understand without talking-down to adults.

He sold a lot of stuff to the French market too.
I'm pretty sure he used to teach seminars in
France, so there are people in that country
with the skill.

WarriorForum is probably not the place to find a
French-language copywriter, since it's an English-
language marketing forum.

Try French-language forums maybe...

As for the offer, I concur with Collette's opinion.
It sounds like you have no money and want the
work done for free, to launch your career.

Loren Woirhaye is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 10:57 AM   #11
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
wordwizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia, USA.
Posts: 494
Thanks: 58
Thanked 42 Times in 27 Posts
Social Networking View Member's FaceBook Profile  View Member's Twitter Profile 
Tip Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

A comment about the comment that only someone desperate for money would take this job. I'm not so sure about that. If they really need money, they're unlikely to take a job that promises pay by performance with this many unknowns and a timeline far into the future.

At least not if they read the post closely.

And yes, I second everything about the cultural aspects of copywriting and the language issues.

There are even cultural issues within English speaking markets. I can't imagine what you'd have to do to go from English to French.

One case in point... I remember being amused quite a few years back when I read that Disneyworld France (or whatever it's called) was distressed that there were no huge lines waiting at the rides. People in Europe aren't into waiting in lines the same way many Americans seem to be. Not the ones I know anyway ;-)

DIME SALE! Build Your Own MONEY Making Blog! Step-by-Step WordPress Blogging eCourse!
Don't WASTE your TIME With EZA! Avoid These Mistakes!
Thanksgiving COPYWRITING Special! Click HERE for Details!
Niche Blog Owners! Daily Fresh Content! Articles too! Now WEEKLY Plan Option! $20 Off First Week!
wordwizard is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 01:28 PM   #12
ResultsCopywriting.com
War Room Member
 
Scott Murdaugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Springfield, Mo USA.
Posts: 565
Thanks: 92
Thanked 161 Times in 84 Posts
Social Networking View Member's FaceBook Profile  View Member's Twitter Profile 
Contact Info
Send a message via AIM to Scott Murdaugh Send a message via Skype™ to Scott Murdaugh
Default Re: Direct Response Marketer WANTED

Quote:
A comment about the comment that only someone desperate for money would take this job. I'm not so sure about that. If they really need money, they're unlikely to take a job that promises pay by performance with this many unknowns and a timeline far into the future.
The problem here is that good copywriters have waiting lists of clients willing and eager to pay their full fees upfront...

Good copywriters turn down work on a regular basis because they don't have time to take on every project that comes their way. I do some royalty deals, but only when an upfront fee is included.

The logic is if they're any good they're not going to touch this, French/English aside.

The only writers who would agree with this are writers desperate for work. And if a copywriter is desperate for work, there's a pretty good chance that they're not good at what they do.

-Scott

Scott Murdaugh is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

  WarriorForum - Internet Marketing Forums > The Warrior Forum > The Copywriting Forum

Tags
direct, marketer, response, wanted

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:56 AM.