Direct Response Marketer WANTED

[ddefr]

Hello I'm a french self-improvement coach and I'm struggling with internet marketing ! I have products, but I don't know how to sell them effectively in my market (in France). I'm looking for someone who will help me structurize my offer and give more value to my customers, and I want this offer to be performance-driven. I'm fluent in English thus the language is not an issue, if needed I will also hire a translator.

What I do :
- Online video programs
- 1-1 coaching
- live seminars
- recurrent membership site (working on it)

What I want from you :
- Market analysis and positionning
- Copywriting
- Mailing / newsletter strategies
- Launch(tree) definitions

What you will get :
- share of the profits
- lot of fun !

Want you have to do now :
- Show me why you are the perfect person for this offer : your track records, your fields of expertise
- Ask me questions, I'll be glad to answer them.

Wishing you (and us) the best.

// DDEFR

[John_S]

share of the profits

Nobody with a smidgeon of sense will take a percentage of profits deal. Sales is what you want, and you pay sales people out of a percentage of gross sales. Not net. Not profit.

The reason is simple. It's a recipe for mischief.

You control expenses. That's your business, not the marketer's. And, when the money is seen as going to someone else, the temptation to play fast and loose with the numbers is asking for trouble. If the marketing person doesn't understand human nature well enough to understand this, they're not good enough students of human nature to perform adequately as marketers.

And there will be expenses.

I swear the people proposing pay-for-performance think they're getting away with something. It's not a free deal with no downside for you. Changes in policy. Testing. And going out and getting the business into shape for a performance deal so the pay is worth taking costs money.

The same people get flabbergasted that they have to redesign the product, or reshoot the video, or (gasp) go out and get testimonials. "This was supposed to be a free deal for me! ....That's why I proposed it!"

What if business quadrupled in thirty days? What if sales grew by tenfold? Most businesses simply aren't able to function on a pay for performance basis because they can't perform at that level. (Couldn't fulfill orders. Can't schedule. Couldn't answer the calls.)

Finally, a whole lot of people think the marketer is going to make people buy your stuff. Doesn't work that way. You change your business, then sales happen. And a lot of people hadn't counted on changing their business -- they want the marketer to make people buy whatever they're selling.

I'm going to leave the "can't multiply zeros" point for Gary Halbert to explain. (Link goes to, arguably, the most unpopular Gary Halbert Letter ever written) Multiplying any low level of sales is just about the same -- unpromising and unappealing.

When sales are very low, there's always the issue of what else is wrong. Self-sabotage can't be corrected by marketing. I've already heard all the reasons business owners couldn't be bothered to succeed, I have no stomach for another story.

Almost without exception the people proposing this deal signal they're not ready for pay-for-performance.

[travlinguy]

As John has said, there are too many things beyond the copywriter's control in arrangements like these. The one that always concerns me is not that you won't honor your end of the agreement, but that you aren't able to drive enough targeted traffic to your offer to make it pay. There are other issues as well, but good luck anyway!

[EaglePiServ]

Another point is you're asking for market research from the person you wish to hire. That could be a time-consuming process for which your final product might not meet the needs of, yet you offer no compensation for doing work you should probably have already done.

In the real world, it is next to impossible to find a commission-only salesperson that's not a recent college grad, or someone down on their luck desperate to try anything to make money.

If that's the kind of person you're looking to hire, then methinks you're in the wrong arena.

Cheers.

[Mark McClure]

OP,
I too doubt that few busy and effective copywriters will bite on a pay-for-performance offer alone.

Also, if your customers are French, don't you need a native French speaking copywriter?

I can't imagine translating direct response copy from English into French is going to press your prospects' hot buttons. Interested if anyone's successfully done this.

[Collette]

Originally Posted by Mark McClure

...
I too doubt that few busy and effective copywriters will bite on a pay-for-performance offer alone

Also, if your customers are French, don't you need a native French speaking copywriter?...

Mark's on the money, here. Plus you should, ideally, find a FRENCH copywriter (or someone who has lived in France, or at least Europe).

There are cultural differences in marketing. This is a major reason why all the Big Ad Agencies have local offices. It's important to adjust your marketing approach to the region in which you're running your campaigns. A campaign that may sell gangbusters in America, may completely flop in Baharain (or France). Heck, there are regional differences in America, and a campaign that would attract a born-and-bred New Yorker may well alienate someone from South Carolina.

Your copywriter needs to be familiar with the cultural norms of your geographical market - especially since you're selling face-to-face services.

And, yeah, unless you have some kind of established sales picture, a straight pay-for-performance is a non-starter for any copywriter who is competent to help you with market analysis and positioning.

As John pointed out, a straight pay-for-performance usually indicates one or more circumstances:

• You're underfunded. Which means you can't implement any marketing and advertising suggestions effectively.
• Your sales are low or non-existent, and your overhead exceeds your current profits. To draw even would require an increase in sales - which increase would immediately go towards eliminating the deficit and bringing you to net zero. Which means you're expecting your copywriter to pay your expenses before he pays his own.
• There may well be a problem with your products and service offerings v your market. If so, and if you're not prepared to re-tool your offerings (or can't afford to), your copywriter is out the time he spent evaluating and analyzing your situation. That - for anyone competent enough to provide effective marketing consulting - would equate to several thousand dollars of 'lost' revenue. For the copywriter/consultant.

Basically, what you're asking is for a high-level copywriter/marketing consultant to invest in your business. Without you making any investment in their business.

You're asking for an investment partner - with your partner taking all the risk.

Even with a completely new business, anyone with a track record is going to want to see your track record and credentials before they commit to working on a pay-for-performance.

[ghyphena]

You know, this reminds me of something that was posted here a short while ago.

Some guy was looking for a copywriter to write an ad for a product he was selling on e-bay. His pitch to us was...

It would be great for our portfolios... and it could lead to work from (I quote) "the big companies"...

Do you see what he did? He tried to position himself as offering us something of value - in this case, another notch on our gun... and... exposure to future, potentially lucrative assignments. And, like you, he invited applications - the more detailed and passionate the better.

Now, I can't say whether or not The Big Companies (TM) trawl e-bay looking for sparkling gems of direct response long copy. But if I were a Big Company (TM), that wouldn't exactly be my first port of call.

But that's not the point... the point is, do you see what this guy is doing? He needs a copywriter. But the way he frames his offer is... he's got something any hot-blooded copywriter would kill for. Portfolio and exposure!

I don't know how many people jumped at it.

I hope you find someone who wants to work with you. But really - wouldn't you rather just spend a few thousand dollars now and get to keep *all* the profit? It's what I would do.

Best of luck with your project

Gil-Ad

[ghyphena]

Originally Posted by Mark McClure

I can't imagine translating direct response copy from English into French is going to press your prospects' hot buttons. Interested if anyone's successfully done this.

You know, Mark, I was thinking about this some time ago - I started thinking about non-native-English speakers writing copy in English... which then led me to think to non-native language copywriting in general.

You might argue that a restricted understanding of grammar and vocab would present a natural barrier to the temptations of getting "too fancy" with your words. Which could actually be an advantage as you'd be forced to make a straightforward, non-fancy, good old benefit-based sales pitch.

Can't speak from experience though.

Gil-Ad

PS - You wouldn't happen to be Mark McClure of Ruthless Entrepreneur fame, would you? Whatever happened to your Click2Sell sales page? I tried finding it a while ago and it seemed to have just dropped off the face of the internet.

[Mark McClure]

Hello gyhphena,

No, I'm no THAT Mark McClure.

Ruthless is he, eh? Maybe I should kick his copy up a notch or two ;-)

[Loren Woirhaye]

Swiss copywriter Christian Godefroy has a remarkable
way with the English language. While undoubtedly
a master communicator, there is a sweetness to
his writing - he truly writes in a way a child can
understand without talking-down to adults.

He sold a lot of stuff to the French market too.
I'm pretty sure he used to teach seminars in
France, so there are people in that country
with the skill.

WarriorForum is probably not the place to find a
French-language copywriter, since it's an English-
language marketing forum.

Try French-language forums maybe...

As for the offer, I concur with Collette's opinion.
It sounds like you have no money and want the
work done for free, to launch your career.

[wordwizard]

A comment about the comment that only someone desperate for money would take this job. I'm not so sure about that. If they really need money, they're unlikely to take a job that promises pay by performance with this many unknowns and a timeline far into the future.

At least not if they read the post closely.

And yes, I second everything about the cultural aspects of copywriting and the language issues.

There are even cultural issues within English speaking markets. I can't imagine what you'd have to do to go from English to French.

One case in point... I remember being amused quite a few years back when I read that Disneyworld France (or whatever it's called) was distressed that there were no huge lines waiting at the rides. People in Europe aren't into waiting in lines the same way many Americans seem to be. Not the ones I know anyway ;-)

[Scott Murdaugh]

A comment about the comment that only someone desperate for money would take this job. I'm not so sure about that. If they really need money, they're unlikely to take a job that promises pay by performance with this many unknowns and a timeline far into the future.

The problem here is that good copywriters have waiting lists of clients willing and eager to pay their full fees upfront...

Good copywriters turn down work on a regular basis because they don't have time to take on every project that comes their way. I do some royalty deals, but only when an upfront fee is included.

The logic is if they're any good they're not going to touch this, French/English aside.

The only writers who would agree with this are writers desperate for work. And if a copywriter is desperate for work, there's a pretty good chance that they're not good at what they do.

-Scott