COPYWRITING EMERGENCY!

[tchashow]

i've tried to apply the limited copywriting knowledge that i have gained in my few months of internet marketing and it has definitely not worked out.

I posted my website to be reviewed and i was laughed at! yes, laughed at because of my pitiful attempts at writing emotion filled copy. Now, I dont blame the people that laughed and made fun of my landing page because I couldnt help but laugh too when certain things were brought to my attention.

But the problem is that I actually thought I had done a decent job of writing effective converting copy. I read it through and I got some other people (not internet marketers ) to read it also and I got some good feedback. Obviously, I was wrong!

My attempt to write emotion filled copy was sort of successful except I provoked the wrong emotion. Tear jerking laughter was not the emotion I was looking for (and someone on this forum said that was exactly the result of reading my copy ). I was sort of aiming for pity and humiliation and self-consciousness. You know, stuff like that.

I know that people say you dont have to be an excellent copywriter to make money online but I feel that I'm greatly lacking in any talent as far as copywriting goes.

So that is why I'm appealing to you guys in the copywriting section of WF because I seriously need help. ANY kind of help. Just point me in the directoin where you first started out so that I can start my education in copywriting again.

[tchashow]

here you go scott but i know you just want a good laugh too!
The Fastest Way to Lose Weight: HOME

[Hugh Thyer]

Its a nice attempt but where are your before and after photos???

There's no credibility or results. You've gotta hit them with proof.

The headline screams 'not another one of these' to me. What's the big idea? What makes your diet so special that IT works where the others FAIL?

Also found it difficult to read. Something about the font perhaps.

Hugh

[travlinguy]

Well, I don't know that the page evokes "tear jerking laughter" but it does need work. First, the layout needs attention, not a lot, but some. Jack the headline up a little higher. In my opinion, for such a short page you've got too many pictures. Picturescan be powerful if they complement the story but yours just seem to be placed randomly.

The actual copy reads as incredibly stereotypical. Here are a couple of lines:
"...my stomach growled uncontrollably and I was laughed at. “The fat girl who was always hungry” was a big joke among my classmates."

It sounds contrived. I love the story format but in this piece, you've hardly developed it. It's almost as though you've taken snippets from other pages and thrown them into this. Sort of like a diet copy swipe file gone live.

The material isn't bad, but it's one-dimensional. What might improve it is a showdown scene, the breaking point where your character has reached rock bottom. Something like this:

Maybe have your character fasting like crazy for several weeks, feeling starved but actually losing some weight. She's feeling better but still hungry.

She goes to the prom without a date hoping people will notice she's looking better. She's not getting the normal ridicule but not getting any love either. Then some cruel boy, or girl approaches and says, “Hey Doris, looks like you've lost some weight." And she smiles. Then the meanie says, yeah, looks like maybe, what, half-pound?” And everyone within earshot breaks into uncontrollable laughter.

Then Doris storms off and finds her way to the snack machine and drops about $42 bucks into it and gorges herself on Twinkies and Ding Dongs in some dark corner of the school until she’s almost in a coma. She's discovered by some other kids who break away from the dance to make out or whatever and soon a crowd gathers round and they all take turns cappin' on the fat girl until sunup.

That becomes the moment of truth. Right there and then she knows in her heart of hearts that she'll never allow herself to be in that situation again. So she finds the fatty diet where you can eat all the crap she wants and still loses weight, lots of weight. Then she returns to the scene of the crime, (the homecoming dance or whatever) as skinny as Paris Hilton and steals the star quarterbacks girlfriend.

Ahh, revenge. And fatty was seen as a legend from that day on and got all the love and respect and the great jobs and got to go on American Idol and make it to the final round and on and on and on...

Obviously my little drama is also stereotypical and completely tongue and cheek (well, not completely) but you do need some drama in there and something 'unique' that your market can relate to that will spruce this copy up.

People with weight issues will be able to relate and they will also be so glad when Doris finally gets even and since they want to win too they’ll click on the buy button. Good luck!

[edmltw]

If I am right, this is a pre-sell.

Keep it short and concise, let the sales page do the selling, not the pre-sell page.

Re-do everything. It now looks like a bare minimum sales letter that doesn't even have a purchase option.

While you're doing up your page, keep in mind these two words. "PRE SELL"

Remember, you are preparing your audience for the selling on the next page... Be their friend in this page. Is this how you normally talk to friends? Pretend that you're talking to a friend about how effective the product is, then write as though you're *Eager* to show him/her the product that you use, then use a "linking phrase" like <<Click Here>>.

Keep it short, sweet and simple.

After you're done with the copy, send me a P.M. and I will do a free review and editing just for you.

Regards,
Edmund

[Loren Woirhaye]

As a pre-sell page it's okay. Your only real goal with a page like
this should be to get clicks to the affiliate promo - so don't freak
out about it.

Just drive traffic to this page and track the clicks on your
links. I would remove the side banner and leave the link only
at the bottom and where "Cheat your way thin" is mentioned.

I also recommend losing the header completely.

In fact, what I would do if I were you is remove all evidence
of artifice and intent to sell - that means eliminating all pictures
unless you have a plausible one.

If you really are a girl who lost some weight make a video or
something.

In short - make it feel "real".

You could really get into the story as TravlinGuy suggests -
here's a classic ad for weight loss about a woman who
gets the sweetest revenge on her ex-husband who dumps
her for being fat:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=4921,2600544

It's a great example of how to dimensionalize and intensify
the appeal of a very common product, the weight loss
plan.

[Collette]

Originally Posted by tchashow

I know that people say you dont have to be an excellent copywriter to make money online but I feel that I'm greatly lacking in any talent as far as copywriting goes.

It helps to believe in your product. I'm thinking that's not the case here.

Originally Posted by tchashow

So that is why I'm appealing to you guys in the copywriting section of WF because I seriously need help. ANY kind of help. Just point me in the directoin where you first started out so that I can start my education in copywriting again.

Top Copywriting Books Ever

[Paul McQuillan]

From looking at the page it seems you have studied very little
about writing sales copy.

I could see this right away WITH ALL THE CAP LETTERS and
color variants in the headline.

The really ugly person in the pic is not a graphic that does
nothing but repulse.. not good if you want to keep people reading.

This copy is a total scrap. Don't feel bad, it's not easy to write good
copy.


Paul

[Mr. Subtle]

[tchashow]

Originally Posted by Collette

It helps to believe in your product. I'm thinking that's not the case here.



Top Copywriting Books Ever

No. I believe in my product. just not my ability to put the product in the spotlight i feel that it deserves to be in

[tchashow]

Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan

From looking at the page it seems you have studied very little
about writing sales copy.

I could see this right away WITH ALL THE CAP LETTERS and
color variants in the headline.

The really ugly person in the pic is not a graphic that does
nothing but repulse.. not good if you want to keep people reading.

This copy is a total scrap. Don't feel bad, it's not easy to write good
copy.


Paul

well first off, this is my attempt at a presell page. and i've read quite a bit about preselling but you are right. i have not read enough.

I've already pointed out that it sucks and that is why im asking you guys for help because I know that it does.

Thank you everybody for your feedback. I think I am going to start over anyway. First, with a new domain.

Should I still presell with a story? or is there another effective way?

[DougBarger]

I'm sorry, but when I read the 'they all laughed at "The Fat Girl who was always Hungry" -it was just hilarious because of the irony.

(Irony in the sense that although the reason your stomach was growling was because you were fasting, to the outside observer, it just seemed that your stomach was growling because you were always hungry.)

It is kind of sad and logically should strike a bond with empathy, sympathy
and pity,

But it's the way it's "set up" that just makes it so funny.

See, here's the thought that goes through the reader's mind when they read
that part.

"Okay, she says everyone laughed at her. That's mean."

Then they read on and see the reason they were laughing
was because they thought you were hungry all the time,
when the truth is you were fasting which is why your stomach growled.

So now, at that point, here's what the reader thinks,
"Oh! I see now. THAT's why they were laughing.
I'd laugh too. That is funny in a look back and
laugh at the irony type way."

So when you set it up with they were all laughing and then
present the reason in a way that makes sense,

Instead of pushing the pity button,
It has the opposite effect just because of the timing.

So, what you would need to do is remove the "Ironic" part
and just go straight for the pity.

So, for example, remove the part where you say,
"The Fat Girl Who Was Always Hungry"

Because that's what's getting the laughs.

I mean, come on, I could see a comedian
up there on the stage talking about
"Yeah, so I tried this new weight loss diet.
It's called fasting. I went without eating
at school all day for so long, my stomach
just kept growling real loud.

But instead of winning all the guy's
attention for my new voluptuous figure,
they just thought "Oh Look, there's
that Fat Girl who's always hungry."

Rim shot.

But you obviously don't want
to use your social proof
to elicit the comedic reaction.

You want to use it to get them identifying more
with you and *not* the laughers.

So you need to take away the reason
the laughers were laughing so that
instead of the laughter being seen as
"justified" with a reason,

It is now seen as "cruel"
and unjust.

That will get more empathy.

You could even ask them if they have ever been
laughed at before by all the good looking, skinny people
because you were overweight.

That will make them painfully aware of their problem
and all the pain it causes them.

That's what you want them more aware of...

Their pain resulting from the problem your product solves.

So, only after they are made painfully aware of their
obesity problem,

Present your solution as the white knight in shining armor,
with a strong call to action
and reason why as the "escape" from their pain
and now it becomes the perfect bridge to what they desire.

[tchashow]

Originally Posted by DougBarger

I'm sorry, but when I read the 'they all laughed at "The Fat Girl who was always Hungry" -it was just hilarious because of the irony.

(Irony in the sense that although the reason your stomach was growling was because you were fasting, to the outside observer, it just seemed that your stomach was growling because you were always hungry.)

It is kind of sad and logically should strike a bond with empathy, sympathy
and pity,

But it's the way it's "set up" that just makes it so funny.

See, here's the thought that goes through the reader's mind when they read
that part.

"Okay, she says everyone laughed at her. That's mean."

Then they read on and see the reason they were laughing
was because they thought you were hungry all the time,
when the truth is you were fasting which is why your stomach growled.

So now, at that point, here's what the reader thinks,
"Oh! I see now. THAT's why they were laughing.
I'd laugh too. That is funny in a look back and
laugh at the irony type way."

So when you set it up with they were all laughing and then
present the reason in a way that makes sense,

Instead of pushing the pity button,
It has the opposite effect just because of the timing.

So, what you would need to do is remove the "Ironic" part
and just go straight for the pity.

So, for example, remove the part where you say,
"The Fat Girl Who Was Always Hungry"

Because that's what's getting the laughs.

I mean, come on, I could see a comedian
up there on the stage talking about
"Yeah, so I tried this new weight loss diet.
It's called fasting. I went without eating
at school all day for so long, my stomach
just kept growling real loud.

But instead of winning all the guy's
attention for my new voluptuous figure,
they just thought "Oh Look, there's
that Fat Girl who's always hungry."

Rim shot.

But you obviously don't want
to use your social proof
to elicit the comedic reaction.

You want to use it to get them identifying more
with you and *not* the laughers.

So you need to take away the reason
the laughers were laughing so that
instead of the laughter being seen as
"justified" with a reason,

It is now seen as "cruel"
and unjust.

That will get more empathy.

You could even ask them if they have ever been
laughed at before by all the good looking, skinny people
because you were overweight.

That will make them painfully aware of their problem
and all the pain it causes them.

That's what you want them more aware of...

Their pain resulting from the problem your product solves.

So, only after they are made painfully aware of their
obesity problem,

Present your solution as the white knight in shining armor,
with a strong call to action
and reason why as the "escape" from their pain
and now it becomes the perfect bridge to what they desire.

Wow. that makes perfect sense. thank you for explaining that to me. maybe i wont rewrite the entire thing after all.

[erinwrites]

I don't think it needs to be totally rewritten, I think you need to find a way to make what you have feel more personal. At the risk of making myself look like a big ol' jerk, there are a lot of cliched situations in there and, without some emotional admissions around them, they don't feel true. If they are true, perhaps put some more in there about how situations made you feel.

Personally, I don't mind the blog layout, it makes the page feel like less of a "here comes a sale!" page but the graphics need some work. I actually really like the picture of the girl in glasses. I can feel her frustration. She doesn't really "go" with the copy you have now, but she might fit better with your revisions. The top sidebar ad's graphic is a little.... it reminds me of the way the magazines will tease "how to lose those holiday lbs fast!" headlines right under big ol' pictures of chocolate cake.

If you do decide to rewrite your copy, it might help you to simply tell your story first, and then worry about salesing it up. Your pre-sell page should make people want to click through to learn more.The harder selling can start after they click through to keep reading. You want them to be thinking "oh my god me too! Me too! Me--hey.... oh, click this button to learn more, okay. Click!"

[tchashow]

Its not actually a true story and that is probably why it feels so "cliched." actually, i dont even have a weight problem or at least not in my opinion but i know so many people that do and i tried to put myself in their shoes.

This story actually came from a memory of mine when i was in high school about a girl i sorta knew.

I actually thought that the picture of the girl was wonderful until some of guys commented about it. l cant quite figure out why this is not a good picture but I will definitely change it. I thought that the picture symbolized a nerdy overweight girl and it kinda reminded me of the girl I was portraying in my story.

[tchashow]

i think another problem with my copy is that im not quite sure who my target audience is. From this story it seems like it would be teenage girls who arent accepted by peers but when i first chose this product my audience was women around the age of 25-35 who had children.

[erinwrites]

Originally Posted by tchashow

i think another problem with my copy is that im not quite sure who my target audience is. From this story it seems like it would be teenage girls who arent accepted by peers but when i first chose this product my audience was women around the age of 25-35 who had children.

I was just about to bring this up. Figuring out your target audience is important. Incidentally, I think you might have better luck with your original audience. They aren't subject to their parents' wallet strings.

[genietoast]

Maybe instead of creating a landing page, you can review this product in your own personal blog. In your own blog, you can be very honest about the product. People are more likely to believe you in that aspect. You can point out the good things about the product and the bad and why you would still endorse the product. People would be more interested in your recommendation of this thing that they might or might not buy.

I agree that your "pre-sell" sounds almost like what a sales page would do which is why I think a blog post reviewing your product would be great. And if you have any other weight loss related products or experiences, you can post that on your blog. For example, maybe a blog post you write could be the Truth about Atkins. If you did try it, what was your experience. This would build your content.

You can also review things that didn't work for you and say why. When it's your blog, you have complete say on what you like or don't like. That way it would be less pressure for you to try to "sell" your product. Your viewers would enjoy getting a well-rounded approach.

Then Take the RSS feed of your blog and put them in a aggregator like feed burner or feedage. You can also social book mark. Writing an article about a particular aspect of weight loss then linking it to your blog post promoting your product can also bring traffic.

[tchashow]

yea i did think about doing that... but the problem with that is like i said i have no weight problem at all so there is no way for me to try all of these products. i didnt try the last product. i got someone i know to try it for me but i had to buy it. and right now i can not afford to buy multiple diet programs and compare them.

i thought about doing a blog website after this website (my first one) is succeeding and maybe i can afford to do a good review website.

[tchashow]

Originally Posted by erinwrites

I was just about to bring this up. Figuring out your target audience is important. Incidentally, I think you might have better luck with your original audience. They aren't subject to their parents' wallet strings.

yea. i think so too. or i thought about targeting a women who always had weight problems from back in high school til present. i think this may be a bigger audience.

i dont know... new at this

[jasondinner]

Originally Posted by tchashow

I feel that I'm greatly lacking in any talent as far as copywriting goes.

For starters, you can stop being so hard on yourself.

You just said you are new to internet marketing and am learning how to write copy.

You should pat yourself on the back for making it this far because most people
(well over 90%) dont ever see success. Or they are so close to it and don't
even realize it, they end up quitting all together entirely.

So stop beating yourself up.

And dont ever say or write "I'm greatly lacking in any talent" as far as ANYTHING goes - AGAIN!!

You're shooting yourself in the foot by talking yourself down like that.

Maybe you should write this down, then read it out loud DAILY before you go to sleep
and right after waking up. (thanks Joe Karbo and Napoleon Hill)

"I am developing my copywriting skills and am becoming an effective communicator of my message. So much so that I get an above average response for every ad piece I write."

And

"My copywriting skills improve each time I complete another ad"

Sounds crazy, but try it. It just might work.

- Jason

[Mtkent]

I don't think your sales copy is laughable but it does need some work. Your headline needs to tell everyone why it's so great. Fast, simple, easy, etc. Next your sales copy talks way too much about your story. You can pull the reader in much quicker and still shorten the copy. You need to be able to relate your issues with the reader but you can get to the point much, much quicker. The last thing is you don't speak of all the benefits of the product you're selling until the very end. You need to tell everyone what the benefits are and how it's going to fix their problem for them. And then remind them of their pain once more and then how great your product is again, and then close the deal and ask for the sale. One more thing is you really could use some before and after pics to slam it home and maybe a couple of testimonials but the other graphics really aren't helping and just take the readers eye of the sales copy that you are trying to get them to read. I would get rid of all the graphics and try again. Good luck. What ever you do don't give up. It'll happen just hang in there.

[NY1]

The one problem that jumps out to me is that you admit it's not a true story and yet you are selling it like it is.

These kinds of fake stories to pre-sell a product as an affiliate is exactly why the FTC is cracking down on internet marketing.

What I find that works best as an affiliate is if you really do a review of the product and then write your pre-sell. That's just my own results.

You'll have to test it for yourself.

Ask yourself, though, if someone buys the product because they believe your story and it turns out the product is not really effective or even healthy, is it worth the $ 20 or $ 30 commission?

[tchashow]

The product works I just did not try it. I got a family member to try it for me. But yes I did make up the story and you are right. I shouldn't lie to people to get them to buy. I'm redoing the entire page anyway.

[NY1]

If your family member tried it and it worked...write THEIR story as your presell...much more effective because it is real...and you want trust even as an affiliate, especially if you start to build a list (which you should)

[tchashow]

I don't think I'm going to use a story as my presell but if I do decide to I will consider using her experience with the product.

Not going to build a list yet. I'm going to wait until I build my affiliate website to do that. When I can offer something of value to the people that sign up.

[DjCrazySexy]

I send you a PM...

the Format is all screwed up...but I think you will get the general idea..

let me know, if you need anymore help?

DjCrazySexy

Originally Posted by tchashow

i've tried to apply the limited copywriting knowledge that i have gained in my few months of internet marketing and it has definitely not worked out.

I posted my website to be reviewed and i was laughed at! yes, laughed at because of my pitiful attempts at writing emotion filled copy. Now, I dont blame the people that laughed and made fun of my landing page because I couldnt help but laugh too when certain things were brought to my attention.

But the problem is that I actually thought I had done a decent job of writing effective converting copy. I read it through and I got some other people (not internet marketers ) to read it also and I got some good feedback. Obviously, I was wrong!

My attempt to write emotion filled copy was sort of successful except I provoked the wrong emotion. Tear jerking laughter was not the emotion I was looking for (and someone on this forum said that was exactly the result of reading my copy ). I was sort of aiming for pity and humiliation and self-consciousness. You know, stuff like that.

I know that people say you dont have to be an excellent copywriter to make money online but I feel that I'm greatly lacking in any talent as far as copywriting goes.

So that is why I'm appealing to you guys in the copywriting section of WF because I seriously need help. ANY kind of help. Just point me in the directoin where you first started out so that I can start my education in copywriting again.

[jficarro]

Hope I'm not being totally off topic here, but you have created a sales page that is very... "salesy". Since your goal is to lead people to an affilate product page, wouldn't it be more effective to creat a simple blog and create a sense of realism that you found a great product with a crappy website, but people should check it out because it works?

Just a thought.

And also, don't feel bad about your copy writing struggle. I am an experienced, very talented writer who is struggling with a salesletter right now (that's why I'm hunting around here). Good copy seems to be part science and part art - and I am having terrible writter's block with the "art" part. So, don't feel bad.

James