Dealing with fussy clients

[snowtigress]

Help! I'm a "new in the biz" copywriter taking on "green" clients. You all know the inexperienced ones don't understand the value of a copywriters work and insist on changes! I'm in the process of building up my portfolio but all these "green" customers are bastardizing my copy so much, that I can't actually list them in my portfolio without becoming a laughingstock.

This question is for all the greats that have gone before me. How do I deal with these clients? I want to keep my patience, sanity AND get them to accept the copy as is, without ruining it. All advice greatly appreciated.

[Matt Jutras]

Originally Posted by snowtigress

Help! I'm a "new in the biz" copywriter taking on "green" clients. You all know the inexperienced ones don't understand the value of a copywriters work and insist on changes! I'm in the process of building up my portfolio but all these "green" customers are bastardizing my copy so much, that I can't actually list them in my portfolio without becoming a laughingstock.

This question is for all the greats that have gone before me. How do I deal with these clients? I want to keep my patience, sanity AND get them to accept the copy as is, without ruining it. All advice greatly appreciated.

Yeah...you're going to run into that.

Another thing you're going to run into is clients who will show your work to their "copywriting friends" and then they'll come back to you with a laundry list of changes.

Then, once you make those changes they'll show it to their "copywriter friends" yet again, and return with an even longer list of changes.

Of course, you have to wonder, if they have copywriter friends, why are they hiring a stranger in the first place...but I digress...

On to answer your question...I havent been doing this as long as some of the other guys on the board, but once I started being firm with clients about some of the changes they request....they back down, and typically even appreciate the advice.

Some clients don't know the difference between copywriting and content...so be firm. If they're asking for something outlandish, explain to them why it's a bad idea.

[travlinguy]

The biggest challenge in this business is getting the client to tell you what he wants. Most have no idea. You'll ask them, what are you trying to accomplish? And they think you're stupid so they'll reply, I want to make money, of course. Most don't know anything about their target market either. Until they understand a little about the sales process they aren't going to get anywhere.

And if you take on a client who doesn't have objectives you're going to end up frustrated because you'll deliver a piece of work based on their vague idea of what they think they're after. And guess what? They'll read what you've written and won't like it. Why? Because they might not know what they want but they definitely know what they don't want.

I reject more work than I take because I refuse to play guessing games with people. I found out early that if someone doesn't understand their own objectives you can't make them happy no matter what you write and you’ll find yourself on the eternal 'rewrite' merry-go-round.

[Paul McQuillan]

Sometimes the client has a valid point and to be honest,
they can do what they want with it. (unless you have some
contract prohibiting them from mutilating it)

Unless you are a "big name" copywriter (and even then) clients
will always want something else added/changed.

Good communication skills are needed for harmony. I think that
many of us take it personal and react in a negative way. After
all it's our baby they're adopting.

I think my issues are more with people who contact me and say
"how much? I don't think it's worth that. I got $100 budget and
I'll keep looking- thanks"

[SuzanneR]

My opinion: Unless you have a list of conditions written out beforehand (theirs and yours, but mostly yours)--the client business model will put you in a mental hospital...lol!

There needs to be clearcut boundaries, because client priorities and your priorities are NOT on the same page.

You need to lay out everything from payment dates to rewrite terms.

I'm slowly transitioning out of the client business model because unless it's a true partnership, I find it less than ideal.

The real challenge is getting clients to see you as more than a mere vendor (selling copy) and more as a strategical thinker. The latter has more monetary value.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Originally Posted by SuzanneR

The real challenge is getting clients to see you as more than a mere vendor (selling copy) and more as a strategical thinker. The latter has more monetary value.

The more you work with clients who understand the value
of copywriting and the sort of thinking copywriters train themselves
to do, the less you'll be butting-heads with ignorant clients.

That being said, I started writing my own copy after hiring
a copywriter myself - and the work was unacceptable and
I knew I could do it better myself.

Ultimately you want to get in with clients that have a future
in business and become part of their "team". Clients who
understand marketing know the value of having other smart brains
contribute ideas, so if they hire you they'll generally give
credence to your input.

Basically, if you want clients to behave more intelligently
and respect your input more you need to be more selective
about who you work with and why. You also need to improve
your own game in order to merit being more selective too.

[Scorched Earth]

The client will always get what they want to pay for, that's how the game works.

You say you are new to the business (I'm not commenting on your writing - I assume that's good if you have clients ) - treat this as a learning curve.... I have work out there I wouldn't put my name on (not much thankfully but every now and then a client crops up who has zero taste!). But the clients are happy. I gave them what they wanted - but only after explaining to them that I'm the 'expert' and the reasons why if I follow their brief in this way (most people listen at this stage if handled tactfully) - they are making a mistake. If they are insistent I'll give them what they want, but don't put my name on it.

Of course none of us would take these jobs on if we knew what was coming - but you have to leave the client happy- and learn from the experience...

Ask yourself some questions might help you develop a process...

Are you taking the brief correctly?
Do you talk that brief back through with the client?
Do you outline your ideas so they have an expectation of what's coming back to them?
Are you conveying convincingly enough to them when they have issues the mistakes in the changes?

Fine tune your process and you'll find something that works for you over time.

As for your portfolio - there's nothing to stop you using your originals that you are proud of when you meet a new client as long as you make them anonymous. You can also turn it into a positive - by showing the two texts side by side as an example of why they should trust your expertise...

Good luck - this one gets easier (and less frequent) over time

[Collette]

Originally Posted by snowtigress

Help! I'm a "new in the biz" copywriter taking on "green" clients. You all know the inexperienced ones don't understand the value of a copywriters work and insist on changes! I'm in the process of building up my portfolio but all these "green" customers are bastardizing my copy so much, that I can't actually list them in my portfolio without becoming a laughingstock.

This question is for all the greats that have gone before me. How do I deal with these clients? I want to keep my patience, sanity AND get them to accept the copy as is, without ruining it. All advice greatly appreciated.

Assuming you have any kind of chops as a copywriter, there are three reasons clients "bastardize" your copy:

1) They don't believe in, or respect, your expertise (i.e. you have failed to establish your credibility)
2) They still believe sales copy is all about them (i.e. they haven't grasped the most basic concept of selling anything)
3) They don't believe in, or respect, your expertise (i.e. you have failed to establish your credibility)

Most clients will ask for changes. That's not your problem. Your problem is that clients are asking for changes that you believe will kill the copy. The reason they're "insisting" on those changes is because you have failed to establish your credibility as a professional - from the first "meeting".

Selling yourself as a copywriter is no different than writing a sales letter. In a sales letter you "begin" the selling process by carefully crafting the headline, yes? Why?

Because the headline is the first impression the prospect has of the product you're about to show him. So the headline needs to do more than just attract attention. The headline should immediately establish that what you're about to offer is something very valuable to the prospect.

Then you craft your body copy to build the prospect's confidence in the product and offer, so the prospect understands, very clearly, that his decision to purchase the product is smart, and wise.

So... to bring it back to you...

You have to "educate" the clients sufficiently beforehand (using articles, reports, consultation, creative brief, whatever) so that they have a baseline of understanding. And respect.

Then, before you begin the project - before you commit one word to the draft - you must prise project USP, direction, goals, and expectations out of the client.

With green clients, this is not easy. However, its an essential step in the process, and you absolutely MUST do this.

You put all of it in writing, and have the client sign off on it before you begin.

Because this step puts both you and your client on the same page. And it gives you something to point to when you're being asked to make changes that will change the direction and scope of the copy.

The alternative is to spend enormous amounts of time during the course of the project explaining why you did what you did how you did it, and explaining why they should not change what they're asking you to change. (This, believe me, is time-consuming and mentally exhausting)

You can ask that your clients run a split-test with your copy vs theirs, but typically, clients this ignorant aren't going to have a clue about split-testing.

Also, as Mike pointed out - ya gotta choose your clients, instead of letting clients choose you. There's no harm in working with copywriting-clueless clients, as long as they respect your expertise and your status as a professional.

Otherwise, as you've discovered, it's a waste of your time.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by travlinguy

The biggest challenge in this business is getting the client to tell you what he wants. Most have no idea. You'll ask them, what are you trying to accomplish? And they think you're stupid so they'll reply, I want to make money, of course. Most don't know anything about their target market either. Until they understand a little about the sales process they aren't going to get anywhere.

And if you take on a client who doesn't have objectives you're going to end up frustrated because you'll deliver a piece of work based on their vague idea of what they think they're after. And guess what? They'll read what you've written and won't like it. Why? Because they might not know what they want but they definitely know what they don't want.

I reject more work than I take because I refuse to play guessing games with people. I found out early that if someone doesn't understand their own objectives you can't make them happy no matter what you write and you’ll find yourself on the eternal 'rewrite' merry-go-round.

You're in the learning process but you'll find that your life gets
easier the higher your fees get. Most of the trouble I got from
clients were from low-paying customers.

Trouble comes with low fees.

-Ray Edwards

[travlinguy]

Originally Posted by Raydal

You're in the learning process but you'll find that your life gets
easier the higher your fees get. Most of the trouble I got from
clients were from low-paying customers.

Trouble comes with low fees.

-Ray Edwards

Thanks for the advice I'll keep it at the forefront of my thoughs always. Just so you know, I've been writing for pay for nearly 25 years and my fees are probably higher than yours. Regardless of what you charge you're going to run into people who don't know what they want.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by travlinguy

Thanks for the advice I'll keep it at the forefront of my thoughs always. Just so you know, I've been writing for pay for nearly 25 years and my fees are probably higher than yours. Regardless of what you charge you're going to run into people who don't know what they want.

This was just a general trend not to say that all high paying clients
know what they are doing, but they give you less trouble the more
they are paying you--just my experience. I'm not sure how you
determined that your fees were higher than mines.

-Ray Edwards

[Daniel Scott]

My advice... write the copy the way you think it should be. Host it on YOUR server.

Then when the client says "I want this changed"... well, at least you have a decent version to show other prospective clients.

When I was charging low fees clients used to mutilate my copy, too. That's why it's good to keep YOUR copy around as a "sample".

-Dan

-Dan

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by Raydal

This was just a general trend not to say that all high paying clients
know what they are doing, but they give you less trouble the more
they are paying you--just my experience.

-Ray Edwards

I agree with Ray.

High paying clients also realize that they are paying high fees for the help of an expert. So if an expert says 'this is how it should be done.' then they are far more likely to listen.

Having said that, there some clients who are already ultra-successful before they ever hired you as their copywriter. They can offer some great ideas and insights which will help you deliver better converting copy. They will naturally work more in "partnership" with you rather than "argue" with you.

Take care,

Mike

[Dean Dhuli]

Quite frankly, I don't think you can stop people from changing the copy.

If they're hell bent on changing it, then they're going to do it anyway.

But the thing about the more accomplished clients is that a majority
of them are familiar with copywriting and the importance of copy.

And the inputs they give often help you in making the copy better.



Regards,
Dean.




_

[snowtigress]

Ok, wait. Several people mentioned that if a client mutilates my copy, I can still show my original in my portfolio. Is that legal or ethical to show work I've done that hasn't actually been published (as is) in my portfolio?

[Collette]

Sure. Just call it, "some samples of work I have done for my clients", and you're good to go.

None of us have any control about how a client uses our copy. Or even if they use it at all. (You'd be surprised how often this happens. I I had a client who didn't get his new copy up for over a year after he'd paid for it!)

[Scorched Earth]

Absolutely - it's still your work....

[coolcrazycool]

Originally Posted by snowtigress

Help! I'm a "new in the biz" copywriter taking on "green" clients. You all know the inexperienced ones don't understand the value of a copywriters work and insist on changes! I'm in the process of building up my portfolio but all these "green" customers are bastardizing my copy so much, that I can't actually list them in my portfolio without becoming a laughingstock.

This question is for all the greats that have gone before me. How do I deal with these clients? I want to keep my patience, sanity AND get them to accept the copy as is, without ruining it. All advice greatly appreciated.

The best way to solve this problem is to do one of two things:

Step 1: Write a book or booklet. Get them to read it before hand. That shows your audience you're following a system. And they either agree with the system or they don't. And your problems stop instantly.

Step 2: Create a presentation: This can be either one hour or two hours, but it will have a clear outcome that shows how bad copy destroys sales. And good copy increases sales.

The key to both of these factors is that you're establishing expertise. Right now, you're just a "supplier"; just a "commodity". When you're the expert, people don't come to you on their terms. They come to you on your terms.

We charge $525-$550 per hour (yes per hour) for consulting. And we get people signing up. And those that don't sign up, buy our book (you can look for the Brain Audit online) and they see the value of sticking to our system.

This isn't about some dictatorship. It's about knowing that part of the problem lies with you. If you're just another 'copywriter', you're not the expert. If you're not the expert, then clients will do what they want, how they want, and when they want.

There's no easy way out of this.
Establish expertise first.
Do the booklet.
Do the presentations.
Do the book.

Do it and then watch the response. You'll be amazed and you can send me chocolate later